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[MatrixReloaded101]

The current narratives in the gaming space are interesting. Microsoft is playing it pretty smartly and we do have a little bit of a reversal situation going on in. If you remember the launch of the Xbox One and PS4.

They are also in different business cycles. Microsoft is accumulating and luring people while Sony is greedily maximizing profits under Jim Ryan after having made a successful core PS userbase with the PS4 generation.

Yup every time Sony has success for a console gen they get greed going into the next gen.

They shouldn’t have increased the price of games to $70. That was a greedy move and that’s what makes game pass even more attractive, sure it’s only $10 but it’s just the principle of the situation.

Most of these games already have micro transactions and DLC which people are buying so games are making more money plus they have the new subscription service which is more money. The price increase was just stupid.

 

[silent head]

Sony always follow Microsofts stuff eventually. But they will fight and kick and scream until they can no longer have their own way. A lot like Nintendo.

It makes sense when you can still make the big bucks with the traditional model, but all this ‘games as a service’ stuff is clearly the new way and will only get bigger. Eventually Sony will have to conform.

https://www.gamespot.com/articles/sony-projects-launching-12-live-service-games-by-2025/1100-6503924/#:~:text=What these live-service games could be are currently unknown.&text=Jim Ryan doubled down on,Sony's 2022 Business Segment briefings.

 

[Bernardougf]

They will eventually have to. TLOU2 showed us that it doesn’t take much to severely undercut a PlayStation IP. Even discounting that, I feel the genuine intrigue for their first party games is waning.

Oh man you will bring out the crazies now ....

Tlou2 problably (MAYBE) sold less them intended but still sold a lot of copies... It was a very divisive game with some strong controversies in its plot and choices, for me it dosent affect other games by Sony as long as they are good and keep de fans satisfied... now if all studios decide to do a "TLOU2 " and start dividing their fanbase .. well.. thats another story but I dont think they will. Or I hope they dont.

 

[Fess]

There is so much defence for Sony’s current strategy to delay PS+ releases here. Where is that coming from? Am I the only one who jumped in at once on PS+ Premium and enjoy it a ton?
Ragnarök appearing day 1 on PS+ would be the biggest thing yet this generation as I see it.

 

[Ozriel]

Microsoft seems to be very concern of Sony business strategy here. Interesting.

Missed the fact that it's in direct response to a Sony claim that Gamepass could give Microsoft an unfair advantage if it keeps growing?

 

[MatrixReloaded101]

They will eventually have to. TLOU2 showed us that it doesn’t take much to severely undercut a PlayStation IP. Even discounting that, I feel the genuine intrigue for their first party games is waning.

The last of us part 2 is one best selling PS4 game of all time so far at 10 million sold.

What are you talking about? Lol

 

[proandrad]

This is like Netflix telling Disney they would be better off putting all their marvel movies on Disney+ day 1.

 

[Calverz]

There is a reason they charge £70 for games now.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

There is so much defence for Sony’s current strategy to delay PS+ releases here. Where is that coming from?

They're fighting for the privilege of having to pay more money to a company. Really weird flex.

 

[sobaka770]

That's a weird statement to make. I'm sure Sony is analysing the market especially with Gamepass being around for quite some time. If TLOU Remake sells like hot-cakes for 70$ - that's potentially amazing profit that company would miss if they put it in a PS+ bundle.

Streaming wars didn't end up well for Netflix and Disney - they spend a lot of money but future looks like budget cuts and less output because there's only so much cash you can make.

 

[SeraphJan]

Their market cap is not even on the same level, copying Microsoft is not a good idea for Sony.

Its all about perspective, of course day one first party PS Plus release would be beneficial in terms of the consumer's perspective.

 

[graywolf323]

This. I'm counting down the days when all games, including third party AAA games, are released on a subscription platform day one, plus never leave the service.

Fuck paying double figures for one game. So archaic.

just look at the movie/tv streaming industry for what will happen

you'll need at least a half dozen different subscriptions, if streaming really takes off we won't see Ubisoft & EA keep putting their games on other services since they'll really start to focus on their own instead

 

[Dontkidyourselfjimmy]

Indeed because there is no way on God's earth that I'm paying £70 for new games. And even Ratchet & Clank Rift Apart has never dropped below £50 yet.

https://www.argos.co.uk/product/9377057

£35 at John Lewis and Currys too, suprised it's that cheap myself.

 

[The_Mike]

Who would have thought 2022 would be a year where Sony and Microsoft cheer each other up by saying how they will both be better off doing x and y, that Sony worries and papa Microsoft says there's nothing to worry about, and Microsoft even trying to dictate Sony that they will benefit for day one on psplus.

 

[Fess]

They're fighting for the privilege of having to pay more money to a company. Really weird flex.

Well yeah I don’t understand it. The only thing the current model does is decreasing the value of PS+ as a service over time. For every release where people don’t wait for a late PS+ release but buy day 1 the hype for adding that release to PS+ gets lower. In the end it’ll just be a service for LTTP gamers.

 

[SlimeGooGoo]

.

 

[AtomicStarving]

2 trillion company vs 100 mi company. That will end well for sure, when not even EA doesnt follow that rule yet (no day one games on EA Play to this day)

I'm almost convinced that MS is trying to bankrupt Sony (then buy them )

 

[JohnnyFootball]

Almost every first party game has ended up on PS Plus at some point. They just dont come right away.

 

[solidus12]

MS needs to release more ambitious big budget games. They seem to be lacking in that department.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

They will eventually have to. TLOU2 showed us that it doesn’t take much to severely undercut a PlayStation IP. Even discounting that, I feel the genuine intrigue for their first party games is waning.

There is no eveidenmce of that. As someone who hated TLoU2. It still sold 10 million + copies.
As long as their first party games sell between 10-20 million copies there is no need to put them on PS Plus.

 

[rickybooby87]

Is Microsoft even benefiting from releasing first party day and date? Like, financially?

Unless it’s not, and only a company with deep pockets could sustain it.

Nice try Phil, trying to goad Jim into a money spending contest…

 

[Kenneth Haight]

All the cool kids are putting their first party titles day one on subscription services

 

[JohnnyFootball]

MS needs to release more ambitious big budget games. They seem to be lacking in that department.

They're coming! That's what people like Kagey K tell me.

They usually need about 50 delays for it to happen, but they'll come.

Halo Infinite came out after being delayed multiple times and look at how well it was received.... <facepalm>

The way MS has handled the Halo franchise from MCC all the way to Halo Infinite tells you all you need to know about the competence of MS first party development.

Its baffling to me how a publisher with the track record of MS the last 10 years has people dumb enough to have any confidence that their exclusive games will be any good. I hope I am wrong and MS can get their shit together. With all the studios they own, there is no reason they shouldn't have 2-3 major releases every year. No fucking excuse.

 

[8BiTw0LF]

This is like Netflix telling Disney they would be better off putting all their marvel movies on Disney+ day 1.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Personally I think they would as well

Put all your 1st party games on the top tier service and I am all in and would sub

As it stands now I have missed out on several games because they didn't interest me enough but if they were on the service I 100% at least try them

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

It's coming.

Sony just needs games that make the bulk of their $$$ from MTX rather than day 1 sales. Then and only then does it make sense for day and date on PS+.

Traditional $70 dollar releases are on the endangered species list.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

This is like Netflix telling Disney they would be better off putting all their marvel movies on Disney+ day 1.

This statement comparison isn't close to as strong as it was 3 years ago considering how shitty the marvel films have been since Endgame. The box office drop off has been pretty substantial. They haven't had a single film break a billion since Endgame. Spiderman doesn't count since Sony has first rights to the character and story.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

It's coming.

Sony just needs games that make the bulk of their $$$ from MTX rather than day 1 sales. Then and only then does it make sense for day and date on PS+.

Traditional $70 dollar releases are on the endangered species list.

How can anybody with a functioning brain can say something like this is beyond me.

When Sony/Nintendo first party games and popular franchises start to dip below well 10 million in sales THEN we might have to take this seriously.

 

[archangelmorph]

https://www.argos.co.uk/product/9377057

£35 at John Lewis and Currys too, suprised it's that cheap myself.

Fuck me!

Cheers for that.

Picking up this + Forbidden West too as they're the same price.

Good shout!

 

[supernova8]

Sony currently knows what they're doing in the gaming space. They don't need Microsoft's biased advice.

If Netflix is anything to go by, streaming/non-ownership subscription services (probably outside of music) are massive money pits that are difficult to turn a profit on. Makes sense that Microsoft wants to move the fight to such services because it (obviously, and by far) has the bigger pockets. Nothing inherently wrong with that. Taunting Sony into effectively copying Game Pass by not just money hatting but literally buying the big third party titles is clearly part of the plan. I'm surprised they aren't making a move for EA as well. Making COD, Elder Scrolls, Fallout, FIFA, Madden, Battlefield (etc etc) all exclusive to Xbox or at least available day one on Game Pass would force Sony to do the same with all of its first party titles.

Makes sense if we consider that Xbox has lost the battle against Playstation over practically every generation so far. Even when Sony fucked up and released the PS3 at $599 and with an architecture that confused everyone, giving Xbox a massive leg up, Playstation 3 arguably still came out either on top or neck and neck with 360. Every other generation before and after has been a bloodbath for Xbox. If I were Microsoft I'd be moving the fight to a different turf where I have more chance of winning too.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

How can anybody with a functioning brain can say something like this is beyond me.

When Sony/Nintendo first party games and popular franchises start to dip below well 10 million in sales THEN we might have to take this seriously.

Like Days Gone, Bloodborne, Demons Souls, Returnal, Ratchet and Clank, The Last Guardian etc, GT7 etc....

10 million in sales in 2025 or 2035 is very different than 10 million in sales in 2018 or 2012. Game budgets continue to skyrocket while game ceilings don't.

Then you have to consider how MTX profits continue to climb throughout the entire industry. MTX sales already account for a bigger piece of the pie than traditional priced games for Sony (and the rest of the industry). That's a trend that is not stopping anytime soon. It's a trend that's about to pick up steam over the next 5 years.

John Riccitiello was right. If MTX aren't baked into your games at this point, you're doing it wrong

 

[Ezquimacore]

Sony currently knows what they're doing in the gaming space. They don't need Microsoft's biased advice.

I think they're out of touch and even Nintendo is making the better moves this time. First time I see Sony PlayStation doing so many bitch moves.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

If Netflix is anything to go by, streaming/non-ownership subscription services (probably outside of music) are massive money pits that are difficult to turn a profit on. Makes sense that Microsoft wants to move the fight to such services because it (obviously, and by far) has the bigger pockets. Nothing inherently wrong with that. Taunting Sony into effectively copying Game Pass by not just money hatting but literally buying the big third party titles is clearly part of the plan. I'm surprised they aren't making a move for EA as well. Making COD, Elder Scrolls, Fallout, FIFA, Madden, Battlefield (etc etc) all exclusive to Xbox or at least available day one on Game Pass would force Sony to do the same with all of its first party titles.

Makes sense if we consider that Xbox has lost the battle against Playstation over practically every generation so far. Even when Sony fucked up and released the PS3 at $599 and with an architecture that confused everyone, giving Xbox a massive leg up, Playstation 3 arguably still came out either on top or neck and neck with 360. Every other generation before and after has been a bloodbath for Xbox. If I were Microsoft I'd be moving the fight to a different turf where I have more chance of winning too.

No it wouldn't. If Nintendo can survive on first party alone, so can Sony. MS cannot buy up everything. Activision cost them $67 billion. I'd imagine that EA would cost around 30-40. Not even MS can keep doling out that kind of dough.

 

[Ozriel]

If Netflix is anything to go by, streaming/non-ownership subscription services (probably outside of music) are massive money pits that are difficult to turn a profit on. Makes sense that Microsoft wants to move the fight to such services because it (obviously, and by far) has the bigger pockets. Nothing inherently wrong with that. Taunting Sony into effectively copying Game Pass by not just money hatting but literally buying the big third party titles is clearly part of the plan. I'm surprised they aren't making a move for EA as well. Making COD, Elder Scrolls, Fallout, FIFA, Madden, Battlefield (etc etc) all exclusive to Xbox or at least available day one on Game Pass would force Sony to do the same with all of its first party titles.

Makes sense if we consider that Xbox has lost the battle against Playstation over practically every generation so far. Even when Sony fucked up and released the PS3 at $599 and with an architecture that confused everyone, giving Xbox a massive leg up, Playstation 3 arguably still came out either on top or neck and neck with 360. Every other generation before and after has been a bloodbath for Xbox. If I were Microsoft I'd be moving the fight to a different turf where I have more chance of winning too.

Sony lawyers: "Microsoft's Gamepass strategy is getting them many subscribers and them putting Call of Duty on their subscription service will result in an unfair advantage"
MS lawyers: "It's fair competition. You can also put your games on PS Plus and significantly grow yours subscriber count too"

You: "OMG. This whole thing was an insidious plan by Microsoft to taunt Sony into going bankrupt!!!!"

 

[Bernd Lauert]

When Sony/Nintendo first party games and popular franchises start to dip below well 10 million in sales THEN we might have to take this seriously.

Nintendo, sure. Sony? Only with deep sales and bundles, and even then only the biggest blockbuster games. It's the reason why Jimbo is big on PC and GaaS.

 

[drganon]

Yeah, Sony really needs to copy the strategy of the company perpetually in last place.

 

[Jaybe]

I’m looking at a barren 2022 from Microsoft first party studios and wish they would take their own advice, and release some day 1 first party games to their service this year.

 

[TheDarkPhantom]

Ahhh yes, after 4 generations of outselling Xbox the time is nigh for Playstation to take their advice

 

[oldergamer]

Because very few buy game on Xbox... (Remember Ace Attoney Trilogy when only "4000" guys buy the game.... that why Microsoft put all games in day one on GP.

Sony dont need to put their AAA games on PS+ Day one. They losing money, game are less budget and still doing well without doing this.

Maybe for AA or less risky games... But when you see even third party games are doing well WITHOUT GP... (Elden Ring / RE8)

We all know GP isn't profitable... at this time...

Thats BS. You are making a number of bs statements.

Ms putting games on gamepass is NOT due to low sales.

You picked two of the biggest games recently

..and dont start this shit that gp is profitable. That is a fanboy statement.

 

[cireza]

Microsoft are even offering consulting advice for free. Sony should be thankful.

 

[SkylineRKR]

I think day one Premium would instantly one up Gamepass since Sony has the better and faster first party output so far, I have GP since late 2020 and the only few first party day one releases I remember are FH5, Halo and Flight Simulator. The question is if Sony needs it. Do their games bomb at retail and does Plus lag behind in subs? If both were true, then they could consider doing it.

 

[Mr Moose]

I only have PS5 digital so stuck with PSN store pricing.

I've heard those don't really exist.

 

[Jimmyisback]

Sony always follow Microsofts stuff eventually. But they will fight and kick and scream until they can no longer have their own way. A lot like Nintendo.

It makes sense when you can still make the big bucks with the traditional model, but all this ‘games as a service’ stuff is clearly the new way and will only get bigger. Eventually Sony will have to conform.

Yep why would I give Sony 80 dollars for a game when I can get a whole year and half of game pass ultimate. I just eventually get a PS5 and play used copies god of war ragnarok, spiderman 2, when the game are 10 dollars or less then sell it right back on ebay to get my money back. I did the same thing with all their ps4 games. I want my dollar to go far in life.

 

[Bojanglez]

Difference is Sony doesn't have the luxury of a parent company swimming in cash if the strategy fails.

 

[Fox Mulder]

Sony doesn’t even have all their own old games on PS+. I was playing the Sly Cooper collection on PS Now and it just vanished in the transition to the new service, presumably so they can trickle it out months later to look like they’re adding things to the service. Nintendo style.

MS just puts everything on Gamepass and looks like a crazy deal when new games cost $70 for no reason.

 

[Captain Toad]

I've enjoyed paying for GamePass all 2022 and getting all ZERO first-party AAA games day one. What a steal.

 

[Fbh]

I mean yeah I imagine every company thinks their business model is better. I'd be dumb for MS to put their games on gamepass day 1 if they didn't think it's a good strategy.

 

[Markio128]

MS: Sony, join us in paradise….

 

[[Sigma]]

Imagine falling right into this trap. Oh wait, I can see Jim falling right into this eventually.

 

[SlimySnake]

lol MS said the same thing about cross platform play IIRC. Even though MS were the ones requiring XBL for F2P games and were the only ones who stood to benefit from the larger PS4 userbase. Now they are bleeding money from the first party division which isnt releasing games and when they do like they did last year they struggle to even enter the top 20. I think Forza was ranked 20th while Halo was MIA last year. Halo used to make $200 million in 3 days in the 360 era selling 3 million + copies in the first weekend alone. Whereas now despite releasing Halo on day one they still missed their subscription target.

With all that said, Ratchet sold just 1 million in its first month while Demon Souls took a year to sell 1.2 million. Returnal took 3 months to sell 500k. Worldwide. Their first party sales took a massive drop last quarter so clearly their sales arent what they used to be in the PS4 era where every big game was selling 3-5 million in the first few months. Maybe its the MS subscription effect, maybe its the new PS Premium service, maybe their games just arent good enough or maybe the games are just too expensive at $70.

I wouldve never succumbed to peer pressure and released my own gamepass competitor. I think it sets a bad precedent when people see year old games like returnal and demon souls on the service. I wouldve also reduced the prices on the $70 games immediately after seeing poor sales. I remember when Sony would consider a game that sold 400k units as a Greatest Hit and release a $20 version for it. Now, their games almost never go on and sale and even when they do they sell for $50. What kind of shit sale is that. Lastly, i wouldve released new innovate games that scream NEXT GEN to entice people to pay full price on day one. More of the same is simply not good enough when you've spent $500 for a next gen system.