Glorified G
Member
Why is anyone replying to dopeyfish in the first place?
Microsoft: Xbox One DRM has a "lot of advantages"
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SwiftDeath
Member
I guess it wasn't clear but pretty much all of what you said I agree with
I realize that you don't own games on PC and accept that
In my mind one of the advantages consoles always had was that you owned the games
They were yours to do whatever fiendish thing you wished
I also agree that if I'm just buying licenses for game I'd rather do it through a PC, through steam mostly as I cannot imagine X1 or PS4 to competitively price older games like steam does in their sales
Basically if I'm going to accept DRM, I'll go PC over X1 any day at this point
Rebel Leader
THE POWER OF BUTTERSCOTCH BOTTOMS
well... he's banned now
And? Do you also "have a black friend"? What I'm saying is this: You're a PC gamer whose console of choice happens to be Xbox, and you've passionately spent your time defending its honor against every attack since the reveal, much like you did about 360 (and I loved 360 for most of the gen).
Therefore, your arguments at this point have basically devolved into trying to find an angle to pick at the labyrinthine list of issues people keep bringing up, but you haven't quite found the way in because obviously nothing is sticking. So there's no need to justify something like what that other guy was, because your passion - which I'm sure is legitimate, don't get me wrong - is denying your ability to reasonably see the landscape at the moment.
I know you're a good guy and can post quality stuff when you want, but I'm just saying we're at the point where things are so overwhelmingly - and rightfully - negative about the Xbox One that a LOT of OG Xbox fans are doing a bunch of flailing right now. I don't think they know which direction to try to deflect the arguments lol
The "average gamer" I've seen has also roundly rejected the Xbox One, the second they're told about even a single piece of their anti-consumer news. The only problem is that Microsoft cleverly did not mention any of that during the hour and dropped those bombs in the immediate aftermath of the conference, so the most casual of gamers simply haven't become acquainted with the issue yet. But they will. They will. And it just so happens issues like these massively impact the casuals more than the hardcore, since hardcore are MORE likely to do things like buy games at full price and not buy used or borrow or lend.
Vane_MagicCity
Banned
I haven't seen it myself but that doesn't mean it isn't happening.
Microsoft XCube
AngryJoeShow
Neo Member
Going PC isn't odd if you are against the DRM.
The issue is that consoles haven't had this restriction in the past and if they will now, they are basically turning into PCs without all the benefits of a PC (in addition to Steam Sales that you mentioned).
So saying you are going PC doesnt mean you wont stop fighting DRM - many PC games have no DRM. These people may continue to dislike DRM and support alternative methods, but now they are doing it on the best available platform if all other platforms are DRM standard.
The WiiU doesnt provide the same type of gaming experiences as on MS, Sony, or the PC Platforms.
Well I'd consider disc free gaming and being able to download and play any game linked to my account on any console I log into advantages. I've long wanted both those.
Though its not an advantage it seems this would enable a more secure sub model. Break your sub contract, account gets flagged and drm checks then fail.
Though its not an advantage it seems this would enable a more secure sub model. Break your sub contract, account gets flagged and drm checks then fail.
SwiftDeath
Member
Honestly this worries me more than anything
Casual gamers that I know are notoriously poorly informed
Sure when you explain news to them they can understand what's happening
Maybe see how significant the change from last gen is but they don't usually hear about it themselves at least in my experience
I worry X1 will still be successful just because people don't bother to get informed or perhaps casual gamers really don't care about MS's new policies but I doubt it
NullPointer
Member
If MS doesn't do a good job of explaining things there are going to quite a few rude awakenings ahead when people try to return their games, buy used, or get kicked out of games and apps when their internet flakes.
In the case of consoles vs PC it's basically hardware versus software DRM. Everything from the NES to the Wii U has innately guarded against pirated copies, save for Sega CD and Turbo CD and they probably just didn't factor in CD burners or figured by the time they were cheap the systems would be phased out. It's part of why the X1's so offputting to many of us and PS4 rumors have been alarming, so long as you lock down properly there is no need to do more, and many of us feel the advantages for "doing more" simply aren't worth it given the trade off and possible long (long) term problems.
Anyways, in the case of PC there's nothing you can do hardware wise, so they have to either not bother or go with some sort of software DRM, and so we had to thumb through the manual for answers to arbitrary questions, then needed CD keys, then finally we were getting garbage like Securom that had the potential to do similar as X1 with fewer of the positives (dialing home, and no disc! And also no free redownloads), nevermind how awful TAGES is (5 installations and NEVER AGAIN!) Steam, similar to that hardware DRM of consoles, is basically a compromise: we'll use your service for authentication, but you'll also let us redownload freely so long as we use our account and not be horrifically invasive or grossly limit how often we can install. So there we were facing a worse alternative, whereas on X1 the alternative is... still need to keep our discs in the system? Not a big deal to me, and if it ever is I just buy the game digitally, and if I really REALLY like a game then it's worth getting both versions for.
He got banned, but I was just about to post a list of just a few major neoGAF Xbox fans who have turned against Microsoft on the Xbox One.
Guess I'll keep collecting the names for the next time that claim is made.
Can you play the same game on how many ever consoles you have, at the same time?
Now, I'm not saying there's many legitimate reasons to do that, I am saying however that if I had 7 PCs, I could literally play the same game on each one, at the same time, without having to be online. With the policy Microsoft has proposed, I would have to sign in to each one, be online 24/7, for it to authenticate once every 24 hours, and there's a question of just how many are allowed to be played at once. There are no advantages to Microsoft's DRM for an offline gamer or people with spotty internet.
flyinpiranha
Member
Yep, for me DRM is directly proportional to what I am allowed to do with it. I'll pay $60 for a great game that I know I can sell. On the PC I wait for sale until it's $20 or less.
I think one of the problems with the arguments about DRM and PC is it always come to how much are you willing to pay for DRM'd material. For me? It's very low. I don't like owning things I have no control over. If it wasn't for HL2 I probably wouldn't have a Steam account from 2004, I didn't start purchasing games through it until just a few years ago when they started doing major sales.
People like stuff, they collect stuff. They also don't always have online. It's AMAZING to me that MS isn't going for the lowest common denominator for a userbase but who knows, it may be just one of the big steps in the draconian adventure of the gaming industry.
I agree mostly with the others that quoted me, I know for me personally it's price vs ownership when it comes to DRM. The more I pay, the more I care about what I can do with it. I had GTA IV for the 360, sold it, have it for the PC that I bought for $4 I think, don't care if I can sell it.
Warm Machine
Member
I can only speak for the 360.
If I had any number of 360s with my gamertag on each of them and every XBLA game I've ever bought on each of them I could have all 10 running offline and playing the XBLA games.
However, you cannot even launch a Game on Demand title if you are offline and not on the console that originally bought it.
I do not know if you could even launch a GoD offline on the console that originally purchased it. Maybe you can, maybe you can't. I've never tried.
I do know that if you are online in a GoD on an unlicensed Xbox and the network goes down they give you 10 minutes of play. I assume they figure that is enough time to get you to a save point.
Vane_MagicCity
Banned
You could always play your discs on other consoles.
cartoon_soldier
Member
No MS. DRM doesn't have advantages to the consumer. Cloud storage and sync do have a lot of advantages for the consumer. Get it straight.
Especially, having a stupid requirement like need to be online once every 24 hours...has ZERO advantages to the consumer.
Especially, having a stupid requirement like need to be online once every 24 hours...has ZERO advantages to the consumer.
Warm Machine
Member
The pricing does turn me off. Moreso because I'm usually 3 months late to the party due to the GoD gap. However, it isn't always bad. Tomb Raider just came out for $30. Cheaper than Futureshop's $40 physical price. If they push everyone toward DD they could cut the price down. They can't until there are physical copies still in the wild that have a different price point. I find is sad that Crysis 3 is on GoD at $60. I would have bit at $40.
I fully expect day and date digital on the One.
Quadraphonic
Member
Guys, you're missing the point. I'll be able to spend more on games, so my publishers can get more money they won't give to the developers!
I should be happy to give more money to companies.
I should be happy to give more money to companies.
Neuromancer
Member
I don't have to put a disc in my system
Whoopdefuckingdoo
Whoopdefuckingdoo
reptilescorpio
Member
Really getting ridiculous, wish they would stop half saying stuff.
SolidusDave
Member
Well the advantages are the same of Steam:
- disc-free boot
- games connected to your account, so you you can't lose them.
Biggest one for me would be
- If future consoles / games streaming services etc. offer BC, you don't have to buy all the games again to play them, they would be already connected to your account.
Looking at all the PSone games on PSN, I would have loved to be able to connect them to my account back when I had bought and played them during the PS1 gen.
I would still prefer to be able to buy physical copies, due to better prices, CEs, IP blocks etc.
But I want them to be locked to my account "forever" as well, just like with Steam.
I know why people don't want all this DRM stuff, but the very same discussion came up back when Steam was introduced and everyone thought it was the devil. It's also a matter of priorities. Like, I can give a rat's ass about being able to buy/sell used games, but I know it's important for others.
The way it's implemented is important though (can play on other accounts/consoles, don't lose access when disconnected from the internet).
- disc-free boot
- games connected to your account, so you you can't lose them.
Biggest one for me would be
- If future consoles / games streaming services etc. offer BC, you don't have to buy all the games again to play them, they would be already connected to your account.
Looking at all the PSone games on PSN, I would have loved to be able to connect them to my account back when I had bought and played them during the PS1 gen.
I would still prefer to be able to buy physical copies, due to better prices, CEs, IP blocks etc.
But I want them to be locked to my account "forever" as well, just like with Steam.
I know why people don't want all this DRM stuff, but the very same discussion came up back when Steam was introduced and everyone thought it was the devil. It's also a matter of priorities. Like, I can give a rat's ass about being able to buy/sell used games, but I know it's important for others.
The way it's implemented is important though (can play on other accounts/consoles, don't lose access when disconnected from the internet).
dream431ca
Banned
AppleSmack
Banned
Why the hell does Microsoft keep talking when they have nothing to say?
SwiftDeath
Member
I can only imagine that no one at MS listens to Phil Spencer when he talks so all the new found attention is like a drug....
Marty Chinn
Member
There's only one benefit I can think of all this and that's being able to install games without needing the disc in the drive in order to play them. That is assuming you still have all the benefits that a physical copy gives you normally as well. It doesn't mean that one feature alone is worth giving up everything else for it though, but it still is one benefit.
Microsoft on the other hand needs to shut up and get their PR in order. It's the worst PR I've seen in ages in video games. They can't say anything without shooting themselves in the foot. I can't believe how stupid they are to sit there and defend it, say it's great, and then won't say why.
Microsoft on the other hand needs to shut up and get their PR in order. It's the worst PR I've seen in ages in video games. They can't say anything without shooting themselves in the foot. I can't believe how stupid they are to sit there and defend it, say it's great, and then won't say why.
I completely dislike nearly every feature on the Xbox One then again I'm an informed consumer so Microsoft really doesn't have a lot of hope with me in the first place. However I am glad to see them get off their asses from a PR standpoint and start to try and move the ball a little. It'll take more than this though. They need to convince people that have been hearing from others over the last few weeks that the Xbone is a deathkiss to gaming.
Truth is it doesn't matter what your product does, how good it is, or the value it offers what matters is how well you can bamboozle the population. That's not to say be dishonest but it is to say ignore the downsides and focus on the positives. They need to do a lot of work to start convincing people now that what they are offering is the superior choice. I'm honestly surprised we aren't seeing a daily pr blitz from MS. They should be talking to everyone they can and repeating a streamlined message that hammers their main selling points as they are known now.
I'm still somewhat shocked they aren't trying to make this come off like they are the good guys here. A kind of weird Machiavellian attempt at spin control. Observe:
"What we'd like the general consumer to try and understand is that as technology changes and as it evolves so to do consumer goods. We here at MS want to both be forward thinking as well as in tune with what the average consumer is comfortable with. On the one hand we want to give you cutting edge technology and the best new approaches to delivering that technology to you and on the other we want to still offer you what you're used to and comfortable with as well. However as most are surely aware by now it's inevitable that digital distribution is the way of the future and with that change in how gaming is delivered needs to come a change in how ownership of content is handled.
Unlike physical media, digital goods and their resale are a new area and as such have required a new approach in how the used game market will work. If you look at nearly any piece of software you'll find along with it activation codes as well as online verifications. This exists in nearly any software imaginable and differs from the day of a purely physical approach. Still we wanted to create a stopgap for our customers that introduced them to this new way of doing business while at the same time allowed them to begin to familiarize themselves with where things are going.
This isn't the first time something like this has been done. If you remember back to the launch of the 360 itself we offered a bundle sans-harddrive for those that felt the need for one was overrated. Some customers felt it made no sense to use one on a gaming console stating that with a physical disk there was no purpose, however now as time has gone on the great majority see it not only as a good option to have available but as a necessity for patches, new content, tweaks, faster loading, and storage. Much in the same way we are offering the new Xbone in a similar vein.
While we are confident that the future of gaming will be purely DD we still offer the opportunity for customers to buy the physical games themselves and yet at the same time begin to introduce the common practices associated with the ownership of purely digital content. While this may take time for people to grow accustomed to we believe that in five years the shift in opinion will be similar to that of those consumers that bought a core system at launch in 2006; the value of the new approach, of the new idea of how gaming is will become self evident.
Be assured that we are also going to be introducing an entirely new approach to how we handle the buying and selling of used games. While we want to introduce the public to the new way of doing things we also want to try and be innovators in regards to that as well. There will be policies and avenues set in place for you to buy and sell used games. The difference will not be in your ability to actually do so but in where you do it."
I feel dirty now, I'm going to take a shower.
Truth is it doesn't matter what your product does, how good it is, or the value it offers what matters is how well you can bamboozle the population. That's not to say be dishonest but it is to say ignore the downsides and focus on the positives. They need to do a lot of work to start convincing people now that what they are offering is the superior choice. I'm honestly surprised we aren't seeing a daily pr blitz from MS. They should be talking to everyone they can and repeating a streamlined message that hammers their main selling points as they are known now.
I'm still somewhat shocked they aren't trying to make this come off like they are the good guys here. A kind of weird Machiavellian attempt at spin control. Observe:
"What we'd like the general consumer to try and understand is that as technology changes and as it evolves so to do consumer goods. We here at MS want to both be forward thinking as well as in tune with what the average consumer is comfortable with. On the one hand we want to give you cutting edge technology and the best new approaches to delivering that technology to you and on the other we want to still offer you what you're used to and comfortable with as well. However as most are surely aware by now it's inevitable that digital distribution is the way of the future and with that change in how gaming is delivered needs to come a change in how ownership of content is handled.
Unlike physical media, digital goods and their resale are a new area and as such have required a new approach in how the used game market will work. If you look at nearly any piece of software you'll find along with it activation codes as well as online verifications. This exists in nearly any software imaginable and differs from the day of a purely physical approach. Still we wanted to create a stopgap for our customers that introduced them to this new way of doing business while at the same time allowed them to begin to familiarize themselves with where things are going.
This isn't the first time something like this has been done. If you remember back to the launch of the 360 itself we offered a bundle sans-harddrive for those that felt the need for one was overrated. Some customers felt it made no sense to use one on a gaming console stating that with a physical disk there was no purpose, however now as time has gone on the great majority see it not only as a good option to have available but as a necessity for patches, new content, tweaks, faster loading, and storage. Much in the same way we are offering the new Xbone in a similar vein.
While we are confident that the future of gaming will be purely DD we still offer the opportunity for customers to buy the physical games themselves and yet at the same time begin to introduce the common practices associated with the ownership of purely digital content. While this may take time for people to grow accustomed to we believe that in five years the shift in opinion will be similar to that of those consumers that bought a core system at launch in 2006; the value of the new approach, of the new idea of how gaming is will become self evident.
Be assured that we are also going to be introducing an entirely new approach to how we handle the buying and selling of used games. While we want to introduce the public to the new way of doing things we also want to try and be innovators in regards to that as well. There will be policies and avenues set in place for you to buy and sell used games. The difference will not be in your ability to actually do so but in where you do it."
I feel dirty now, I'm going to take a shower.
Xenon
Member
I'd love to go completely digital in the next gen. I tried to do it with the Vita but I just couldn't pass up on all the retail sales. Now I have a number of games I don't want to lug around with my portable system. I know it's not the same with a console but I still would rather have all the titles installed without needing a disk. Right now MS's DRM will provide me with the ability to buy retail and still have the advantages of digital purchases so I don't have a issue with it.
The only concern I have is that currently digital purchases are tied to a console to allow family members to play a game in their own profile. If MS made all software tied to just the user alone, that would be a huge problem.
The only concern I have is that currently digital purchases are tied to a console to allow family members to play a game in their own profile. If MS made all software tied to just the user alone, that would be a huge problem.
Yellowflashdude
Member
Thing is, people will buy it anyway. Just like how people gobble up xbox live this gen. Not hating, its their money afterall.
Rhazer Fusion
Member
There are probably advantages for Microsoft, but not for the consumer.
RobotMafia
Banned
What? Is Phatsaqs next? ATTICA ATTICA!
Senor Kami
Banned
What's the difference? If you don't have the internet, good luck downloading games.
A one time activation would suffice. I have yet to hear an actual reason for this requirement. Even given what we know so far about Microsoft's implementation of DRM it really doesn't need to be there. People on GAF have given reasons, but they tend to ignore what Microsoft has actually said about the system they are using, or how the 360 handles this etc. I'm really curious to see if there is one little quark that makes it a requirement. I can easily imagine a scenario for full digital marketplace trading, used games code activations in Gamestops, playing on friends consoles etc. all without requiring a 24 hour check. Sure it will require a one time net connection, but I think that's a reasonable requirement if you are going nearly all digital.
lmao you want me banned bro?
Darkmakaimura
Can You Imagine What SureAI Is Going To Do With Garfield?
DRM has become more prevalent over the years especially with online gaming stores/services like Steam, Origin, etc. It's actually no surprise that not only is DRM a thing, but becoming even worse unfortunately.
You need to get out more.
At the end of the day, this is nothing more that an annoyance.
puebla
Member
for real lol
Darkmakaimura
Can You Imagine What SureAI Is Going To Do With Garfield?
You can count me as an Xbox fan (well, preferred the 360 over the PS3) that has turned against MS/Xbone due to the DRM issue alone.
zeopower6
Member
The sad part of it is they probably are. :|
lastflowers
Banned
if you are able to sell your copy on an online marketplace, then you need to be able to ensure that any copy that is already on a harddrive hasn't been sold.
What they could do to get around the 'online checkups' is offer a 'permanent cd-key', where you opt-in to accepting 'I cannot sell this digitally', and then the cdkey is activated for your account and that system could then be permanently taken offline from then on and not require server validation for that title. Other titles that don't have this would still need to be verified.
Ricko Suave
Member
Eventually? Maybe...
Thanks for this but none of that says why they deserve it. Unchallenged license agreements not withstanding.
Because MS or anyone for that matter, manufactures something they don't automatically deserve a piece of a second, third, or hundredth sale.
No other industry has tried to pull this and this is what an all digital future will bring us.
SneakyStephan
Banned
No it doesn't.
Fresh Face
Banned
Anticitizen One
Banned
I'm not gonna defend MS but I think the reason Xbox users like myself are indifferent to this is because:
- I buy my games new (not at $60 mind you, if your willing to wait a few weeks there is usually a pretty substantial discount. Only pay $60 for games I really want day one.)
-I'm connected to the internet 95-98% of the year.
-(Personal reason) I hate gamestop and I feel the used game market at gamestop, best buy, etc. is a scam. They give you like 10 bucks for your game and then resell it for $55
- I buy my games new (not at $60 mind you, if your willing to wait a few weeks there is usually a pretty substantial discount. Only pay $60 for games I really want day one.)
-I'm connected to the internet 95-98% of the year.
-(Personal reason) I hate gamestop and I feel the used game market at gamestop, best buy, etc. is a scam. They give you like 10 bucks for your game and then resell it for $55