You can look like SHIT when you have some fever =P
Also, symmetric faces (a classic example of beauty) is strongly tied to a healthy appearence
Hell, even sleepping poorly can destroy the way you look =P
Cough medicine helps with fevers nowadays ?
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Miss Universe Canada DQs Transsexual Contestant
- Thread starter soultron
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Cough medicine helps with fevers nowadays ?
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
Well, far be it from me to pretend to be enlightened here, but I know that there's a difference between the things I do myself and the spectrum of behaviour that is normal, and I don't accuse behaviours or people of being abnormal just because they do things differently to me.
You are of the opinion that:
- Going to the dentist [a medical professional] and having your teeth bleached [a medical procedure] so that they look nicer is cheating.
- Going to the dentist [a medical professional] and having your teeth straightened [a medical procedure] so that they look nicer is not cheating.
- Going to the dentist [a medical professional] and having your teeth cleaned [a medical procedure] so that they look nicer is not cheating.
- Going to the store and getting something to bleach your teeth [a medical procedure] so that they look nicer is not cheating.
Your problem is not with using a dentist to make your teeth look nicer, it's not with using bleach to make your teeth look nicer, it's with using a dentist to use bleach to make your teeth look nicer. I think most people would call that pretty arbitrary and not very consistent at all.
So if i said fever instead of flu you would understand my point ? Come ON !
Also, if you are SO FOCUSED on cough medicine, "some cold and cough remedies include banned stimulants such as ephedrin and pseudo-ephedrin" so people CAN be banned of competitions because of the used of cough remedies =P
...
So ... transphobia ?
Seraphinianus
Banned
Is there a term for transgendered people similar to "uncanny valley"?
She is close to convincing, but kind of like Kayo Police, there are a few things that irk me at first and make me shudder (because i'm not attracted, not because i'm evil white oppressive guy), then the closer I look, I understand why I'm not convinced.
She is close to convincing, but kind of like Kayo Police, there are a few things that irk me at first and make me shudder (because i'm not attracted, not because i'm evil white oppressive guy), then the closer I look, I understand why I'm not convinced.
My problem is with people cheating through different means to gain a better appearance for a contest that is based on that appearance, just like I have a problem with athletes gaining a better performance through drugs in a contest which is based on performance.
You can argue my opinion all day and how stupid you think it is, This little sentence above explains it pretty thoroughly for you, without nitpicking over minor details.
Take your witchhunt elsewhere, buddy. I made my opinion perfectly clear. It has nothing to do with her being transgendered.
user8503492
Banned
Her head looks to big for her food deprived body, not digging her. My love for full figured women strikes again 
Other that I dont see the issue, its a private competition they can bend the rules or make them as they go along, who cares.
Plus now that its out shes a man I cant look at her as a woman now. Sure if I didnt know I would be fooled but now that I know the truth its impossible for me to see hers as a 100% woman and not just a guy with feminine features and fake boobies.
Other that I dont see the issue, its a private competition they can bend the rules or make them as they go along, who cares.
Plus now that its out shes a man I cant look at her as a woman now. Sure if I didnt know I would be fooled but now that I know the truth its impossible for me to see hers as a 100% woman and not just a guy with feminine features and fake boobies.
Sorry but..
I'm all ok with people doing what they want to their bodies and having pussies or extra cocks installed, but the contest is for female, biological females. This person was born male, with male part, and is considered male on a biological level. No amount of makeup, body modifications and hormonal therapy will change that true natural fact.
It's like a white girl showing up to a miss black america contest! Or Miss Asia! Or a girl to a male contest!
I'm all ok with people doing what they want to their bodies and having pussies or extra cocks installed, but the contest is for female, biological females. This person was born male, with male part, and is considered male on a biological level. No amount of makeup, body modifications and hormonal therapy will change that true natural fact.
It's like a white girl showing up to a miss black america contest! Or Miss Asia! Or a girl to a male contest!
...i was just asking if we could go back to the topic
....If she has black heritage or was born in asia, i don't see what is the problem.
Or people would need "you must be this black to enter" in the rules
Ok, sorry bout that. It read like you were accusing me of being transphobic. (Is that really the term used ?)
FrontalMonk
Banned
I...what? Why does this attitude always come up in trans threads? What is seriously so hard to understand that sex is not gender? where's the Sex/Gender/Sexual Orientation venn diagram when you need it?
Baller. PhD
Banned
I would very much like to have sexual intercourse with this individual.
ohhhhh diacritic burnnnn
Again though, we KNOW the company that runs this particular pageant gave Carrie Prejean a $5200 loan to have breast implants. Even if you object to medical enhancements in beauty pageants it seems blatantly hypocritical to take issue with this particular situation considering Miss Prejean was doing it to have larger breasts and Miss Talackova was doing it as part of her treatment for a documented medical condition (Gender Identity Disorder).
While I personally agree with the principle that a beauty pageant should pit people with naturally good features against others with naturally good features this pageant already seems to have opened to door enough that I don't think the argument works in this case.
Man, these posts genuinely bother me, and I can't put my finger on why. It's not like I have any right to be personally offended, but jesus...
Invisible_Insane
Member
I'm still reeling.
Zoe
Member
Married is considered a different category and has its own pageants.
ThLunarian
Member
Practically speaking from the pageant's point of view, it was a bad idea to disqualify her. Pageant judging is purely subjective; if they really didn't want her to win, they could have just not picked her to win. This way they avoid any potential backlash.
Houston3000
Member
I couldn't give two shits about a beauty pageant, I've never even watched one, I don't care if she's transgender. However, if cosmetic surgery is allowed than I think the entire contest is completely bunk, useless, unfair, and not worth anyone's time anyways. What's the point? Why don't we just do a contest with the most "beautiful" robot women or the most "beautiful" cartoon characters? I realize these contests have some humanitarian aspect where the girls do shit for charity, are suppose to generally be good people, and generally help society - but that's obviously not the draw or else fat chicks with bad skin would actually be in the running and there would be no bikini show.
The contest isn't about who has the best uterus. There's nothing in the rules barring plastic surgery. And in fact nothing in the rules barring gender either. In the spirit of the contests rules, there's absolutely nothing going on her that should prevent her from competing. I think you'll probably find Miss Black America does in fact have rules regarding race, so your comparison doesn't really work.
FHM Readers even voted Andrej Pejic as one of the 100 hottest women in a poll, ranking Andrej at 98, and Andrej Pejic is still a man. The magazine itself didn't handle it well, but that's beside the point. The readers voted him onto the list.
This I'd watch.
fixed
bengraven
Member
Science is so fucking cool. I can't believe how advanced HRT is.
And I wonder if any women complain about the results of HRT. "I was expecting bigger breasts". I suppose everyone wishes their body developed a certain way, but results are so random in life you can't decide that.
I'm not really a big fan of words like "fooled", because she isn't trying to fool/trick you. This is the reason "it's a trap" is banned here - it's insulting to those who are trans.
She transitioned so that she could be who she's supposed to be, and it had nothing to do with you or anybody else. When people are fooled, that situation comes up because the other person specifically attempted to have others believe something other than the truth.
I understand the reason some have for thinking that transgender people are "fooling" others via their transitions, but that thinking is one of the parts of this whole discussion that does legitimately bother me.
ThLunarian
Member
You're free to disagree with that guy's opinion, but the facts he used are accurate.
I don't know the difference between sex and gender, but in terms of whichever one refers to biological state, this person is a male, unless science has found a way to rewrite peoples' chromosomes recently.
I'm glad she has successfully transitioned into a woman in lifestyle, appearance, and mindset, and I'm sure she's very happy with her life, which is great. But biologically speaking, whether the correct term is gender or sex, she is a male. And since it's normal throughout society for people to be excluded from certain activities based on how they were born (such as males (people who live their lives as males in this case) being excluded from female beauty pageants), I don't think you can call it unjust that she was disqualified here.
Its not like its something many people confront on even a monthly basis.
Wait...they can do that?
I want to state beforehand that I have no problem with the concept of transsexuals but my experience with meeting any are severely limited so I haven't really had the opportunity to talk to or be friends with one. However it seems to me that being a trans in a longterm relationship with someone else could be problematic. What if they wind up getting married and the other person wants kids? How would they go about that? I think most people would react poorly to being told years into a relationship that their partner was a trans. Even if the other person was okay with them being a trans, I would think they would still feel hurt about not being told the truth, no? Of course, that is my own speculation and if any of that is wrong please correct me. It's something I've wondered about whenever a topic like this comes along.
Just don't get carried away.
fizzelopeguss
Banned
Who judges this, men, women?
One wonders at the possibility of a butthurt casting couch situation.
One wonders at the possibility of a butthurt casting couch situation.
Good Job Bob
Member
There was actually an entire thread about this discussion on here recently.
I think the typical opinion of those who are trans is that there should be no requirement for them to talk about their past when first meeting somebody or going out on a first date, but if things are looking to get serious then the truth should be told.
So, finding out years into a marriage is something that shouldn't be happening anyhow.
Sounds solid.
what is this for
Close-ish, but change judges to founders/sponsors. And it's less about being a virginal and more about appearing "wholesome" to others. I can see why they've kept those rules for a scholarship pageant like Miss America (she's supposed to be the face of a few charities and has other wholesome-like responsibilities), but I'm not sure why they kept those kinds of rules for a modeling pageant like Miss USA.
Obvious prejudicial connotation is obvious.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
It is likely that this person's chromosomal sex is male. It is possible (I am not familiar with her case) that she was born XXY or another chromosomal abnormality that would make her of ambiguous or questionable chromosomal sex. Chromosomal sex is not usually used as the primary measure of sex for this reason.
Biological sex also includes primary (in this case surgically modified) and secondary sexual characteristics (in this case modified by hormone therapy) and internal organs--ie presence of ovaries (in this case, we can assume she does not have ovaries).
A minority of individuals are born with particular physical conditions--hermaphroditism would be a catchall term--that makes the determination of their sex difficult at birth. Some of these individuals, particularly in developing countries, do not discover their actual sex until later in life.
By some measures her biological sex would be male, by others female. The determination of whether her birth characteristics are important or her current characteristics should be made on an ad hoc basis depending on the reason for which sex is necessary to talk about. Her gender is unambiguously female.
Generally when we exclude people from activities on the basis of their characteristics, we make a credible link between the characteristic and the activity.
For example, when we exclude a quadriplegic from hiring to be a cashier, it could be because one of the responsibilities of being a cashier requires active movement, and another requires lifting a particular class of weight. If, on the other hand, another job did not require activities the quadriplegic was incapable of, they would be free to apply for that job, and should not be excluded from it for that reason.
I think you can pretty credibly argue that, based on the premise of such a competition, having the appearance of a female (and indeed a particular sort of female) is intrinsically linked to the competition. I think it's fair to say that whether this particular woman is your cup of tea, she certainly isn't totally out of the ballpark for a competition like this. That is to say if you were to pull 100 contestants in this competition, some would be less physically attractive than her and some more.
Athletics competitions make a credible connection between a person's birth genetics and their physical development, and forbid particular hormone regimens of non-transgendered persons as well. It's not clear that such a credible argument can be made here, because as mentioned non-transgendered persons are free to "cheat" when it comes to their appearance. So it's not the surgery that precludes it. Competitors are allowed to use hormonal birth control to circumvent apparent disadvantages (IE skipping their periods), so we can't credibly argue that this competitor is cheating by lacking an ovary.
I don't see a credible connection between chromosomal sex and this competition that doesn't boil down to "People are weirded out by transgendered people". If you can provide one, please let me know.
I would suggest that perhaps the strongest connection I do see would be the winner's role in being a spokesperson to young women, which could credibly involve particular responsibilities related to body image or experience living as a young women. I'd personally argue that a transgendered woman is probably more sensitive than most to body image issues, but I think this is probably the most credible route to take. It would also raise an interesting question about a transgendered or intersex individual who began their transition while a toddler or a small child, and so would clear any hurdle imposed by this requirement.
Finally, any hypothetical requirements are moot because the contest hasn't clarified such a requirement before she applied and hasn't cited such a requirement in firing her. Doing so now would be post hoc, so they've already ceded that they don't have a clear public-facing reason for doing so
I think they would have given the award to someone else then.
childplease
Banned
He is pretty convincing but you can tell he has had alot of work done. His face looks plastic.
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