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[StueyDuck]

Ausie Ausie Ausie

and people think TDS isn't a real thing... (she's not even American, which proves it's a real mental disorder)

This Karen is straight up willing to call the closest person we've had since Hitler to act like Hitler, as just a chilled guy whose oppressed because the orange man bad...

I'm starting to feel there needs to be research done on Karens around the world. Maybe these women are like infected with a parasite or something that's causing them to be so inherently stupid.

 

[kpopSuperstar]

This reads like an SNL sketch, what a president. Future generations will hardly believe he was real.

 

[DeepEnigma]

How France handles Senegalese murderers.

 

[winjer]

Sick fucks.

I still have nightmares of the children we found and the things that had been done to them. Trash ass humans to put millions of children through this.

This didn't show up for no reason.
Their prophet Muhammad married a six year old and then raped her when she was 8 years and 9 months.
So of course now, many Muslims think child marriage and rape is the right thing to do.
It's a truly depraved religion.

 

[Jaybe]

Assembly of Ex-perts

 

[Bojji]

How France handles Senegalese murderers.

All Muslims are mentally ill if they believe what quran and hadiths are teaching. This religion is evil to the core.

France needs to build more mental hospitals...

 

[vodka-bull]

All Muslims are mentally ill if they believe what quran and hadiths are teaching. This religion is evil to the core.

France needs to build more mental hospitals...

If Jesus wuld've been a pedophile, we'd probably believe the same.

 

[Bojji]

If Jesus wuld've been a pedophile, we'd probably believe the same.

But he wasn't. I doubt religion like that would get that popular in first century.

And I'm agnostic since ~12 yo, I don't believe in fairy tales.

 

[jason10mm]

All Muslims are mentally ill if they believe what quran and hadiths are teaching. This religion is evil to the core.

France needs to build more mental hospitals...

No, they don't. They need to build a bunch of remote driven leaky boats to take these savages back where they came from, or sink into the ocean, inshallah.

Standard practice in EVERY western country should be to IMMEDIATELY deport any non-citizen that steps out of line. No if's, and's, or but's. And any country that refuses to receive them back should immediately be black-listed from any and all future "immigrants" with the cost of incarceration taken from whatever trade balance stands.

 

[Rentahamster]

If Jesus wuld've been a pedophile, we'd probably believe the same.

The Bible condones a lot of horrific things too, like slavery, genocide, and rape. Thankfully the west had somewhat of an enlightenment where we selectively ignore most of worst elements of The Bible and try to focus on more of the wholesome parts. Extreme fundamentalism, applied to any of these Abrahamic religions, results in religious justifications for terrible behavior.

 

[DeepEnigma]

The Bible condones a lot of horrific things too, like slavery, genocide, and rape. Thankfully the west had somewhat of an enlightenment where we selectively ignore most of worst elements of The Bible and try to focus on more of the wholesome parts. Extreme fundamentalism, applied to any of these Abrahamic religions, results in religious justifications for terrible behavior.

The New Testament does not condole slavery, genocide and rape.

 

[Rentahamster]

The New Testament does not condole slavery, genocide and rape.

The Bible condones a lot of horrific things too, like slavery, genocide, and rape.

 

[jason10mm]

But he wasn't. I doubt religion like that would get that popular in first century.

And I'm agnostic since ~12 yo, I don't believe in fairy tales.

Well, it was pretty standard through the Roman and Jewish cultures for girls to be married off starting around age 12. Obviously some took longer, some particularly important marriages might have arraigned earlier. Menstruation was a key marker of being "ready for marriage", as sex leading to pregnancy was pretty much a given back then. So had Jesus gotten married (or records of it passed down) it may well have been to what we would consider an 'under-aged' girl by todays standards.

The key here is Christianity has morphed substantially from it's inception, as has Judaism. And Islam, to an extent, but the islamic world seems heavy locked down by extremists with a very conservative and antiquated worldview, whereas 'modern' Jews and Christians are largely past many of the impractical social conventions of their religious origins.

But all of this is VERY recent, you can go back just a century or less and find many, many examples of 14 yo girls or younger getting married off in western countries, almost always to older men with the means to support a wife and family.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Semantics to try and "whatabout,"

Paul's letters and Christ's teachings emphasized that all individuals are created in God's image and are equals in Christ, which is seen as dismantling the moral foundation of slavery.

Christians follow the teachings of Christ in the Bible. It's not "selectively ignoring," it's the New Testament of Jesus Christ that replaced the old corrupt viper ways.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

For you guys talking religion above, I'm not religious so to me all of it is nuts.

But wouldn't it be more reasonable for a believer to treat it more like their fav sports team?

You can cheer and support them as a whole, but nothing wrong with criticizing the bad parts. Just because you support them doesnt mean every player, coach or roster move they do is best ever and needs to be followed to a T.

But I guess some people do.

 

[Rentahamster]

Semantics to try and "whatabout,"

Paul's letters and Christ's teachings emphasized that all individuals are created in God's image and are equals in Christ, which is seen as dismantling the moral foundation of slavery.

Christians follow the teachings of Christ in the Bible. It's not "selectively ignoring," it's the New Testament of Jesus Christ that replaced the old corrupt viper ways.

Is the Old Testament a very important part of the Bible that contains God's laws and describes God's actions?

Is the New Testament an affirmation of the Old Testament?

The answer to both of these questions is "yes". There is no replacement, as what Paul wrote contradicts what Christ preached. If there was actually a replacement, modern Christians wouldn't still hang on to the Ten Commandments like a safety blanket.

 

[EviLore]

As far as the Old Testament, war in the Bronze and Iron Ages wasn't for the faint of heart. Every conflict was an existential one, generally against some very grim cultures. Not exactly a time for the Geneva Conventions.

 

[FullMetalx117]

Semantics to try and "whatabout,"

Paul's letters and Christ's teachings emphasized that all individuals are created in God's image and are equals in Christ, which is seen as dismantling the moral foundation of slavery.

Christians follow the teachings of Christ in the Bible. It's not "selectively ignoring," it's the New Testament of Jesus Christ that replaced the old corrupt viper ways.

the irony of trying to dispel 'whatabout', while at the same time trying to push a Christian understanding that was not even consensus historically let alone modern times. 'Paul's letter's are effectively equivalent to the islamic hadiths by the way, if looking at it from an honest perspective, unless you think paul's letters are divine.

 

[DeepEnigma]

But all of this is VERY recent, you can go back just a century or less and find many, many examples of 14 yo girls or younger getting married off in western countries, almost always to older men with the means to support a wife and family.

Average lifespan was also 30-40 years old in the 1800s and what we view as children now, and for good reason, were working adults at 14 years of age at the time.

 

[calico]

This guy knew. It was the perfect move.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Is the Old Testament a very important part of the Bible that contains God's laws and describes God's actions?

Is the New Testament an affirmation of the Old Testament?

The answer to both of these questions is "yes". There is no replacement, as what Paul wrote contradicts what Christ preached. If there was actually a replacement, modern Christians wouldn't still hang on to the Ten Commandments like a safety blanket.

And in those ten commandments, they dispel the notion of the condoning of genocide, slavery, and rape.

With thou shalt not murder, thou shalt not steal, thou shalt not covet.

 

[DeepEnigma]

This guy knew. It was the perfect move.

And ofc he's the one being detailed and possibly arrested. UK has fallen.

 

[AJUMP23]

Good Riddance.

 

[Rentahamster]

And in those ten commandments, they dispel the notion of the condoning of genocide, slavery, and rape.

With thou shalt not murder, thou shalt not steal, thou shalt not covet.

No dispelling, from my reading of the book. There are no "thou shalt not commit slavery" and "thou shalt not rape other people" commandments, while God does instruct his chosen people to destroy and enslave their competitors.

While there is a "thou shalt not murder", this seems to contradict God's documented instructions to genocide surrounding peoples. It also seems a touch hypocritical that this is being commanded by the same God who ultrakilled the entire world except for Noah that one time, and also offed every single first born child of Egypt for unjustified reasons.

 

[Forsete]

Tango down.

Doubt it was the Iranians. You don't shoot at your BFFs right? Though, mistakes can happen.

 

[balls of snow]

Just so you guys know, the Prophet being a pedophile was debunk awhile back. By the progressive muslim scholars as well as prominent nonmuslims. It is not widespread and of course the islamists will never acknowledge it.

Just search Joshua Little phd thesis.

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

Average lifespan was also 30-40 years old in the 1800s and what we view as children now, and for good reason, were working adults at 14 years of age at the time.

Average lifespan was not 30-40 years old. Otherwise the old people would not exist. Child mortality was high - that's why families had a lot of kids (also younger people are more fertile). But the lifespans were comparable to modern ones.

 

[Rentahamster]

As far as the Old Testament, war in the Bronze and Iron Ages wasn't for the faint of heart. Every conflict was an existential one, generally against some very grim cultures. Not exactly a time for the Geneva Conventions.

Very true. Life back then was extremely brutal.

I doubt any of us born in this modern age of luxury could really survive those sort of circumstances our ancestors had to endure. That's why these OT stories would necessarily appear to be inspired by man, not by the divine. These are quintessentially the trials and tribulations of the ancient human experience, warts and all. One would think that a divinely-inspired story would be a bit more, well, divine.

 

[DeepEnigma]

No dispelling, from my reading of the book. There are no "thou shalt not commit slavery" and "thou shalt not rape other people" commandments, while God does instruct his chosen people to destroy and enslave their competitors.

While there is a "thou shalt not murder", this seems to contradict God's documented instructions to genocide surrounding peoples. It also seems a touch hypocritical that this is being commanded by the same God who ultrakilled the entire world except for Noah that one time, and also offed every single first born child of Egypt for unjustified reasons.

Covet means to not sleep with what doesn't belong to you. Raping a women does not belong to you since her own flesh and agency belongs to her and the Lord.

Steal means to not take what doesn't belong to you. Another persons autonomy under God, which Christ taught we were all children of God. So stealing someone's right to self does not belong to you.

Murder, self explanatory when genocide is no longer self-defense, but mass murder as well.

Let's move on, and agree to disagree and not derail any futher.

Average lifespan was not 30-40 years old. Otherwise the old people would not exist. Child mortality was high - that's why families had a lot of kids (also younger people are more fertile). But the lifespans were comparable to modern ones.

You do know how averages work, yes?

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Average lifespan was not 30-40 years old. Otherwise the old people would not exist. Child mortality was high - that's why families had a lot of kids (also younger people are more fertile). But the lifespans were comparable to modern ones.

People in the 1800s lived to about 80 years old?

 

[FullMetalx117]

For the conspiracy folk:

 

[AJUMP23]

The Bible condones a lot of horrific things too, like slavery, genocide, and rape. Thankfully the west had somewhat of an enlightenment where we selectively ignore most of worst elements of The Bible and try to focus on more of the wholesome parts. Extreme fundamentalism, applied to any of these Abrahamic religions, results in religious justifications for terrible behavior.

The New Testament does not condole slavery, genocide and rape.

The whole letter from Paul to Philemon is about how he should treat his former run away slave Onesimus as a brother in Christ. It addresses slavery, it does not abolish it. But what comes out of the teaching of the Bible is the value of every person, that in term leads to the development of human rights and for Christians in the west to lead a spearhead the eradication of slavery, debtors prisons. Christianities value of the individual soul leads to the understanding that people are not property. The Bible condemns excessive Usury (interest) as well. And many other economic issues we see this day.

The old testament doesn't say, Rape is good, slavery is good, and Genocide is good. But it does deal with those topics. Some people in the old testament had very harsh punishments and lost inheritance due to their actions regarding genocide and Rape. As far as slavery goes it deals with it in terms of financial transactions not in racial terms. People that were slaves were captured in war, or because of debt. But after 7 years you had to free them, or in a year of jubilee (50 years) they were freed.

 

[calico]

One interesting difference is you can make these negative statements about Christianity and you probably won't be murdered in the street or arrested.

 

[Rentahamster]

Covet means to not sleep with what doesn't belong to you. Raping a women does not belong to you since her own flesh and agency belongs to her and the Lord.

Steal means to not take what doesn't belong to you. Another persons autonomy under God, which Christ taught we were all children of God. So stealing someone's right to self does not belong to you.

Murder, self explanatory when genocide is no longer self-defense, but mass murder as well.

Let's move on, and agree to disagree and not derail any futher.

You're inserting a lot of editorializing there, which in my opinion is a good thing, because modern Christianity can do a post-modernist recontextualizing to squeeze in modern sensibilities into the ancient dogma. However, from a literalist perspective, this is not written in the book, and there are multiple instances of contradictions and God committing or commanding what we in the modern era would consider to be bad behavior.

As a student of literature, I get it. It's fine. It's par for the course, really. Welcome to the club, even. But I can see where this is a problem for believers who have faith that this is all actually true.

You're right that this isn't a Bible study thread, and I don't intend to make this one. Perhaps someone else can make that thread.

 

[Topher]

This guy knew. It was the perfect move.

The guy is screaming "you all are better than him" and they immediately prove otherwise.

 

[AJUMP23]

Hot take incoming.

 

[DeepEnigma]

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

You do know how averages work, yes?

Yes, but that's the whole point - "the average lifespan" that people often use does not mean that people died by 40 years old most of the time. Those who survived the childhood - would live for a long time. The average lifespan estimations are skewed by the early deaths.

People in the 1800s lived to about 80 years old?

Potentially longer. I mean even in the ancient era you had people living beyond 60+ more often than not. Nowadays you have more people living 80+ or even reaching 90+ than before. There were people in the 1800s, etc. lived also pretty long if they passed certain age. Sure there were diseases and so on. But on average, you had plenty of old people.

Makes sense. Trump was literally a NYC real estate tycoon. PDs, politics, show business, mafia and gangs...He experienced that all.

 

[Critical Hit]

The problem is that Russia needs the weapons themselves.

For a long time now, more than half of the war has been fought with drones, and Russia has no problems with that. It has had financial problems, but the point is that the situation is changing.

And pipelines and other stuff was destroyed too.

Most of it has long been transported by a shadow fleet, which consists of nearly 1k vessels. Trump's tariffs were the main problem, but they were overturned by the Supreme Court.

Plus all the second order effects from the falling shipping routes.

You yourself posted the news that Europeans are asking for this route to be resumed.

Russia is not a winner here at all.

I don't understand how you see it. The reduction in alternative sources leads to two things: higher prices and the need to return to Russian oil and gas at higher prices. And the increase in intensity and prolongation of the operation in Iran could easily lead to a situation where the air defense missiles for the patriots will soon be unavailable to the Ukrainians.

 

[Mozza]

Whoever's not on this team, it's safe to say:

I am well aware that this faith is wrong on many levels. My suggestion was between Russia and Ukraine.

 

[EviLore]

Very true. Life back then was extremely brutal.

I doubt any of us born in this modern age of luxury could really survive those sort of circumstances our ancestors had to endure. That's why these OT stories would necessarily appear to be inspired by man, not by the divine. These are quintessentially the trials and tribulations of the ancient human experience, warts and all. One would think that a divinely-inspired story would be a bit more, well, divine.

You're looking at, e.g., chronicles of ancient warfare in the Old Testament and taking them to be equivalent to doctrine or divine messaging. That is a reductive view of scripture that most Jews and Christians wouldn't agree with, hence DeepEnigma noting for example the laws of the Ten Commandments.

The point was that the mullahs currently in control of Iran have some of the most disgusting views imaginable and have rewritten Iranian law to reflect their views. "What about things we would now consider to be war crimes in the Bible though" doesn't make for a compelling argument.

 

[Rentahamster]

The whole letter from Paul to Philemon is about how he should treat his former run away slave Onesimus as a brother in Christ. It addresses slavery, it does not abolish it. But what comes out of the teaching of the Bible is the value of every person, that in term leads to the development of human rights and for Christians in the west to lead a spearhead the eradication of slavery, debtors prisons.

As long as you're already inclined to be that way. Christianity was used as a justification for slavery for a long time before it wasn't.

Select Parts of the Holy Bible for the use of the Negro Slaves in the British West-India Islands - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

https://www.tsl.texas.gov/ref/abouttx/secession/2feb1861.html

In all the non-slave-holding States, in violation of that good faith and comity which should exist between entirely distinct nations, the people have formed themselves into a great sectional party, now strong enough in numbers to control the affairs of each of those States, based upon the unnatural feeling of hostility to these Southern States and their beneficent and patriarchal system of African slavery, proclaiming the debasing doctrine of the equality of all men, irrespective of race or color--a doctrine at war with nature, in opposition to the experience of mankind, and in violation of the plainest revelations of the Divine Law.

Christianities value of the individual soul leads to the understanding that people are not property. The Bible condemns excessive Usury (interest) as well. And many other economic issues we see this day.

Bible Gateway passage: Leviticus 25:44-46 - New International Version

“‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. You can bequeath them to your children as...

www.biblegateway.com

'Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.

The old testament doesn't say, Rape is good, slavery is good, and Genocide is good. But it does deal with those topics. Some people in the old testament had very harsh punishments and lost inheritance due to their actions regarding genocide and Rape. As far as slavery goes it deals with it in terms of financial transactions not in racial terms. People that were slaves were captured in war, or because of debt. But after 7 years you had to free them, or in a year of jubilee (50 years) they were freed.

It doesn't say they're good (yet it does allow for these actions). But it doesn't say they're bad either. The Old Testament has strict specific prohibitions against things like eating shrimp, wearing mixed fabrics, and yet no strict prohibitions for what we in the modern age would consider to be much more gravely sinister actions.

The 7 years thing only applies to Israelites, and not slaves that are acquired from foreign lands, so that excuse doesn't sit right with me. Even if it did apply to everyone, they shouldn't have been a slave in the first place.

 

[vodka-bull]

People in the 1800s lived to about 80 years old?

Depending on where they lived and under what circumstances, yes.

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

Most of it has long been transported by a shadow fleet, which consists of nearly 1k vessels. Trump's tariffs were the main problem, but they were overturned by the Supreme Court.

SCOTUS overtuned only IEEPA tariffs that amounted to 20% of all the tariffs. And shadow fleet means nothing as the ships are being seized.

You yourself posted the news that Europeans are asking for this route to be resumed.

Cool and all but for that you need the EU consensus and they won't get it.

And the increase in intensity and prolongation of the operation in Iran could easily lead to a situation where the air defense missiles for the patriots will soon be unavailable to the Ukrainians.

Patriot missiles and such are effective against missiles. Drone warfare is a different matter. By and large, nothing much changes for Rus

 

[AJUMP23]

As long as you're already inclined to be that way. Christianity was used as a justification for slavery for a long time before it wasn't.

Certainly, the Bible as well as many other "holy books" have been used to justify many things we find horrific today.

But I do not think you can detach the modern moral elevation of the individual in the enlightenment without the ideas that derive from the the Judeo Christian ethos developed through the Bible. Certainly there are parts that are difficult given current sensibilities and rights we hold sacred today.

 

[calico]

Everyone engaged in slavery and then, eventually, Christians -guided by their Christianity- largely ended it and enforced its end as far as their influence could reach. Pretty cool.

 

[Rentahamster]

You're looking at, e.g., chronicles of ancient warfare in the Old Testament and taking them to be equivalent to doctrine or divine messaging. That is a reductive view of scripture that most Jews and Christians wouldn't agree with, hence DeepEnigma noting for example the laws of the Ten Commandments.

The point was that the mullahs currently in control of Iran have some of the most disgusting views imaginable and have rewritten Iranian law to reflect their views. "What about things we would now consider to be war crimes in the Bible though" doesn't make for a compelling argument.

My original point is that a fundamentalist reading of any religious text often leads to bad outcomes and that I'm glad we had The Renaissance and Enlightenment eras to smooth out those rough areas of Christianity, while shaking my head at the barbarism still being so widespread amongst extremist Muslim groups. It's not a whattaboutism argument justifying bad behavior. It's a "we did it so you should too" thought experiment about the the worst aspects of our historical culture.

Extreme fundamentalism, applied to any of these Abrahamic religions, results in religious justifications for terrible behavior.

Thankfully the west had somewhat of an enlightenment where we selectively ignore most of worst elements of The Bible and try to focus on more of the wholesome parts. Extreme fundamentalism, applied to any of these Abrahamic religions, results in religious justifications for terrible behavior.

 

[Bojji]

I am well aware that this faith is wrong on many levels. My suggestion was between Russia and Ukraine.

No comparison in this aspect.

Ukrainians wanted to be closer to the west (and join EU) after seeing how backwards their country (rules by pro Russian governments) is compared to other countries that were in the Eastern block with them (and now have GDP per capita few times higher than them). There weren't attacking other countries, raping women, torturing civilians (including kids), leveling cities, attacking maternity hospitals (full of pregnant women) and kidnapping children...

This is what Russia is doing since this war started. They are EVIL in every sense of this word.

 

[jason10mm]

Average lifespan was also 30-40 years old in the 1800s and what we view as children now, and for good reason, were working adults at 14 years of age at the time.

Well, the 'real' lifespan wasn't much different from what we have now, if you account for the crazy high (20-30% in some cases) infant mortality. Once you made it to 4-5 years of age and you could easily expect to live to your 60-70's.

And sure, in agrarian based societies kids were labor, so starting early and often was common. Girls were more useful tying in local relationships and biology being biology, 'needed' to be married off quick before they started having kids out of wedlock and their marriage potential fell off a cliff. But pretty much throughout time very few fathers would agree to marry their daughters to some snot-nosed kid her age, they (and the girls themselves, since this was who was going to support them and their kids) wanted to make sure any marriage was to a stable man of means, not some lazy punk or drifter. Thus older men marrying younger women/girls was common. If anything, it was the 'elites' that could afford to keep girls around to read books and go to parties until that perfect alliance could be made. The working class needed to move those girls on to make room for the younger kids and to start having grand-kids that could help on the farm/family business.

 

[Rentahamster]

Everyone engaged in slavery and then, eventually, Christians -guided by their Christianity- largely ended it and enforced its end as far as their influence could reach. Pretty cool.

I'd say it was guided more by the Industrial Revolution lol.

Christianity was a justification in both the pro-slavery and the anti-slavery camps so they cancel each other out.