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[Cuburt]

It's disappointing we live in a society that is so detached from nature that some people have no respect for it.

People assume boundaries are just for the protection of the animals and nature but it's for their protection as well.

I don't know if the YouTube video is inspiring others to copycat, but if we start seeing more people die, smh.

 

[norm9]

He lived on the edge.

Well done.

 

[outunderthestars]

I've been to Yellowstone and it is an amazing place. There are unmissable warning signs plastered everywhere. Ignoring them is an intentional act of stupidity and disrespect for the elements
]

Yes, but photos of warning signs don't get Instagram/twitter likes/hearts/whatever bullshit thing people want for validation.

 

[Ray Wonder]

Why are you talking about this like it's an accident? There are no rails on streets either, but we know not to wander out into traffic because cars can hit you and it will not be good if they do.

The hot springs of Yellowstone literally have big signs all over telling you what they are, how hot and acidic they are, and warning that they can kill you if you get near them, and imploring people to stay on the boardwalks for their own safety. You CANNOT miss them. They're everywhere.

Why do they have rails anywhere then? Just put signs everywhere. Top floor of a building, 30 flights of stairs below you? No rail, just a sign?

They don't do that because it's immediately fatally dangerous as soon as you cross the threshold that the rails protect.

If someone tripped off of that platform with no rails at yellowstone, what happens? They get up and get back on it, right? If they keep walking towards the pit, that's when it's fatally dangerous. To a person that that fact would make feel safe enough they might wander a bit. Yes, it's dumb all the way around, but I still feel some empathy for the mistake itself, not just the suffering he went through as a result.

 

[jooey]

Yes, but photos of warning signs don't get Instagram/twitter likes/hearts/whatever bullshit thing people want for validation.

Seriously, like I'm going to take a selfie with a warning sign. I'm not some... safety... cuck

 

[n00bsauce87]

To a person that that fact would make feel safe enough they might wander a bit. Yes, it's dumb all the way around, but I still feel some empathy for the mistake itself, not just the suffering he went through as a result.

Wander around for 400+ yards (to and from end point) in a place that can result in a fatality.

How long does it take to walk and wonder for that long?

Is it possible to be in a "mistake in the moment" for that long?

Also, people keep saying they empathize with the guy. Empathy requires to understand and related to their emotional experience.

I can't relate to something he did. It's more troubling that people on here are admitting that they do. Can you honestly say that you would put yourself in a position that for over 400+ yards, one slip, misstep, or a hazard unseen and can't be prevented (key point here) will result in death even though people who are smarter than you are telling you to not do that and signs saying the same just for the sake of thrills? Seek professional help.

 

[TheSaddestSort]

Horrible way to go out, but in a completely stupid and preventable manner. People do such moronic things when visiting Yellowstone.

 

[maabus1999]

Another Darwin Award Winner. I'm amazed how stupid some people can get.

 

[norm9]

Guy didn't believe the rules applied to him. This is a possible conclusion to that thought.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Why do they have rails anywhere then? Just put signs everywhere. Top floor of a building, 30 flights of stairs below you? No rail, just a sign?

They don't do that because it's immediately fatally dangerous as soon as you cross the threshold that the rails protect.

If someone tripped off of that platform with no rails at yellowstone, what happens? They get up and get back on it, right? If they keep walking towards the pit, that's when it's fatally dangerous. To a person that that fact would make feel safe enough they might wander a bit. Yes, it's dumb all the way around, but I still feel some empathy for the mistake itself, not just the suffering he went through as a result.

Again, we're not talking about someone who fell off the platform, as one might do atop a building. The comparisons you keep coming up with are not in any way relevant to the situation at hand. This is someone who wandered over two hundred yards out into the hot springs. You are coming up with scenarios that have no bearing on the actual site of the incident, nor the behavior of the individual.

Yellowstone has railings around areas where you could fall directly into the hot springs.

 

[Ragnorok64]

How acidic is that water for there to be no remains left? Or is that more a function of the constant heat?

 

[Chococat]

Seems my definition of willfully endangering yourself is very narrow in context with "mistake". I agree with what's in your post, but still feel this falls as a mistake.

If we agree his "mistake" was a lapse in personal judgement, then I agree with you.

But if you mean he committed the mistake cause there wasn't enough fencing, or signage, or lack of human knowledge about boiling water, then no. That takes away his personal responsibility for his actions and shifting the blame of his death onto other humans.

Willful endangerment is not a negative against this guy. People who climb Everest are willfully endangering themselves- no matter how prepared they are. If feel bad when they die too. But not as much as say a kid who get hit by a car and dies. The latter is tragic, senseless death. The former is people dying doing something they wanted to do.

The Yellowstone guy died doing something he wanted to do- explore the spring up close and personal to get a better shot. It is a terrible death. But putting himself in danger was his choice.

 

[vainglorious]

How acidic is that water for there to be no remains left? Or is that more a function of the constant heat?

You should watch Breaking Bad.

 

[BossLackey]

People are fucking idiots. I'm not saying he deserved to die, but that's natural selection for ya.

 

[Cat Party]

It's disappointing we live in a society that is so detached from nature that some people have no respect for it.

People assume boundaries are just for the protection of the animals and nature but it's for their protection as well.

I don't know if the YouTube video is inspiring others to copycat, but if we start seeing more people die, smh.

Exactly. I find myself having no sympathy for people who die unnecessarily due their disrespect of nature.

 

[SiegfriedFM]

Once we get space tourism, some guy will certainly jump out the airlock to get an awesome selfie with the rocket in the background.

I feel sorry for the family, somewhat sorry for the sister (she was still fucking stupid enough to be out there too, and lucky not to be dead), but only minimally sorry for the guy.

 

[thelatestmodel]

When I was in my early teens, my parents took us to Yellowstone. Those pools are amazing and look like they'd be fun to swim and dive in, but my parents quickly pointed out that there's steam coming off them and they are hot enough to kill you.

And the signs are everywhere. Unfortunate, but it's not like they don't try and warn you.

 

[Ray Wonder]

Again, we're not talking about someone who fell off the platform, as one might do atop a building. The comparisons you keep coming up with are not in any way relevant to the situation at hand. This is someone who wandered over two hundred yards out into the hot springs. You are coming up with scenarios that have no bearing on the actual site of the incident, nor the behavior of the individual.

Yellowstone has railings around areas where you could fall directly into the hot springs.

You're missing my point. The rail bit was just to make a point that where rails are located could be used to judge how safe you are. And they play a purpose when they're used.

Yellowstone has railings around areas where you could fall directly into the hot springs.

^ This makes you feel like you're unsafe if you go over the rails.

When there are no rails, You may tend to feel safer with stepping off. Like the picture below. 200 yards of that stuff on the left? Hell yeah I could see someone mistaking that they're safe, then slipping in the mud and falling into a pit of acid. I could imagine that it wasn't so clear cut, "Oh yeah, they're gonna die." while witnessing them walking. And only once the dude slipped was it obvious that he was in danger.

Seeing where the park puts rails and where it doesn't might lead someone to believe that with that information, they could apply it themselves when walking around off the path.
"Oh that looks like somewhere where a rail would be, let's not go there."

 

[GhaleonEB]

You're missing my point. The rail bit was just to make a point that where rails are located could be used to judge how safe you are. And they play a purpose when they're used.

^ This makes you feel like you're unsafe if you go over the rails.

When there are no rails, You may tend to feel safer with stepping off. Like the picture below. 200 yards of that stuff on the left? Hell yeah I could see someone mistaking that they're safe, then slipping in the mud and falling into a pit of acid. I could imagine that it wasn't so clear cut, "Oh yeah, they're gonna die." while witnessing them walking. And only once the dude slipped was it obvious that he was in danger.

Seeing where the park puts rails and where it doesn't might lead someone to believe that with that information, they could apply it themselves when walking around off the path.
"Oh that looks like somewhere where a rail would be, let's not go there."

I do understand your point, I just think it's an irrelevent one that totally ignores the situation. In isolation, a path is intended to keep people on it. And signs are used to warn people why.

I've been to Yellowstone and it is an amazing place. There are unmissable warning signs plastered everywhere. Ignoring them is an intentional act of stupidity and disrespect for the elements

You are ignoring this context, which means the point you are making in that picture is a poor one.

 

[Alebrije]

Guess those pools contain sulphuric acid and clorhidric acid , the PH leves must be 3 or 4

Google sulphuric acid burn, If you dare


The guy was so stupid but nobody deserves that dead

 

[Ray Wonder]

I do understand your point, I just think it's an irrelevent one that totally ignores the situation. You've posted a picture of a walkway by way of comparison, but it bears little reslemblence to the situation in Yellowstone. If the picture were surrounded by steaming hot ground, and these signs, the situation would be a wee bit different.

That's Yellowstone if you didn't notice the steaming clouds in the background. Doesn't that left side look sorta kinda mistakably safe? Almost like you couldn't even tell it was Yellowstone. I need to see exactly where this happened before I say I can't understand why it happened.

I'm not trying to absolve the dude of any wrongdoing. I'm saying I see how the mistake could be made. Even with those signs.

EDIT: I see your edit now, but the fact that you mistook it in the first place shows my point.

What you've said is stepping on that grass for 200 yards on the left side of that path is the same as playing in traffic. If I'm analyzing the information correctly.

 

[Peru]

It's out in mother nature. No one can hand hold people away from making fatal mistakes.

 

[Dai101]

Guy didn't believe the rules applied to him. This is a possible conclusion to that thought.

#YOLO!!!

 

[FStop7]

Social media is Darwin's turbocharger.

 

[Ray Wonder]

You are ignoring this context, which means the point you are making in that picture is a poor one.

I think your comparison to playing in busy traffic wasn't appilcable. That's why I started replying to you. You don't know the specifics, and assuming that walking off the path is comparable to playing in busy traffic isn't a safe assumption. At some points on the path, it is, but without that information. I will not assume that.

Also, could you please stop saying things like "Your point is irrelevant," and "Your point is a poor one" and just tell me why. That's not relevant to the argument.

 

[Forearms]

Sad story, and it certainly serves as a reminder to not trod off the beaten path when one is made available to you (even if there aren't any rails). I've never been to Yellowstone, but I'm assuming the signage posted in previous comments is all over the place.

 

[goldenpp72]

Must be nice living in holier than thou land and I can guarantee EVERYONE has done dumb stuff that could have gotten them hurt in the the past.

At 23 years old I was paying rent and engaged, working in my career, saving for a house.. I wouldn't have done something that stupid even in my teens let alone at 23 years old, this person was an idiot, but I hope his death was as painless as possible still. The age is entirely what people are focusing on here, if it was a kid the vibe would be different. At 23, he's been out of high school for years, he would have been in or finishing college (or holding down a job, hopefully) at this point. That's not exactly 'still learning stupid kid' age, and if it is for you, well then yes you're probably stupid like it or not.

 

[Alexlf]

In blunt trauma, yes. However in response to tissue damage the blood pressure drop is due to vasoactive cytokine release, allowing immune cells to migrate to and respond to localized damage. However when the damage is widespread, widespread vasoactive substances are themselves the cause of blood pressure drop via vasodilation and vasopermeability.

Beyond that, damage to the microcirculation, the capillaries, venules, arterioles, and veins near the surface would also cause a blood pressure drop from sheer mass blood loss. The blood may be contained in a limb (although in this case I assume it will leak out into the water freely), but the blood is no longer in the circulatory system.

The massive insult would also set off a massive norepinephrine/epinephrine/endoprhin response that would also blunt some of the pain signals. Although once the damage reaches the dorsal root ganglia, assuming the person is still conscious, that would be worse pain than anything at the skin. Then again, I'd assume complete uncosciousness by that point.

There are other factors to consider as well. Widespread tissue damage will cause a massive release of substances such as potassium and magnesium, which will interfere with the heart beating and the brain processing. To the point that, in not too long a timespan, you just won't be conscious and/or your heart will go into afib/vfib.

http://www.medbullets.com/step2-3-dermatology/20554/burns
http://www.totalburncare.com/orientation_burn_shock.htm

Very fascinating and informative, I stand corrected. Thanks for the awesome post.

 

[Chococat]

Seeing where the park puts rails and where it doesn't might lead someone to believe that with that information, they could apply it themselves when walking around off the path.
"Oh that looks like somewhere where a rail would be, let's not go there."

You are being willfully ignorant. You really think a rail would have stopped this guy from walking off the path when he had already ignored all the signage? The guy obviously didn't care about the danger.

Again, you shifting his personal responsibility off to his death being the parks fault cause they obviously didn't do enough to keep him safe from himself. Just stop it.

 

[UnemployedVillain]

Once we get space tourism, some guy will certainly jump out the airlock to get an awesome selfie with the rocket in the background.

I'm laughing because I would bet money on this happening for sure. Some dumbass is going to think he can hold his breath and close his eyes and be okay or some shit like that

 

[Ray Wonder]

You are being willfully ignorant. You really think a rail would have stopped this guy from walking off the path when he had already ignored all the signage? The guy obviously didn't care about the danger.

Again, you shifting his personal responsibility off to his death being the parks fault cause they obviously didn't do enough to keep him safe from himself. Just stop it.

No, I'm saying I empathize with the mistake and not just the way he died. I'm not advocating for more rails either. It's his fault all the way, the park isn't at fault whatsoever.

 

[jblank83]

Very fascinating and informative, I stand corrected. Thanks for the awesome post.

You're welcome! Glad you found it interesting!

 

[Vilam]

I'm just for closing the park entirely. People are gonna be people, this will not be the last time something like this is gonna happen. It sucks, but people really are their own worst enemy.

And we have an obligation to stop people from being people... why?

 

[Astral Dog]

The barriers and paths are there partly to protect the people from the park, and partly to protect the park from the people. Every time one of these dipshits wanders off like that, they destroy formations that took ages to form. Selfish, dangerous and amazingly stupid.

Depressing stuff.

They should be doing their jobs better then, anti human stuff.
Two incidents on one summer sounds troubling.

 

[johnny956]

I blame the parents and most of GenX for raising a generation who believe they can do no wrong and the boundaries don't apply to them.

People have died in these hot springs since like the early 1900's. It'll happen regardless of what security they put in place. If people want to be stupid, let them be stupid.

 

[todahawk]

Yup. I have sympathy for the family, but not for him. I hope his death was relatively fast though, although as already mentioned, falling in lava would likely be a preferable way of dying.

I dunno, I read an article not too long ago on how Hollywood has painted an extremely inaccurate picture of what it's like to die in lava (even by Hollywood standards of artistic license). Way more horrific and painful that I could have imagined.... Not like I'd want to pick between those two ways of dying.

 

[Forearms]

They should be doing their jobs better then, anti human stuff.
Two incidents on one summer sounds troubling.

Are you really blaming the park, and/or park personnel, for the poor choices of an individual?

 

[johnny956]

Yes, but photos of warning signs don't get Instagram/twitter likes/hearts/whatever bullshit thing people want for validation.

Eh 22 people have died from these hot springs since it opened in 1890. I think the last one before this was the guy trying to save his dog in the 80's so the majority have happened before the validation bullshit

 

[Mammoth Jones]

Maybe change the signs to be far more blunt:

 

[Kadayi]

No, he fell into a natural boiling hot, cauldron of acidic toxic earth water. Lava would have been a more pleasant a death I'd bet.

Not really: -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mW56dMH0T2s

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Maybe change the signs to be far more blunt:

Living in a prime skiing country I can attest the uppermost doesn't work whatsoever, ever.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

Living in a prime skiing country I can attest the uppermost doesn't work whatsoever, ever.

Damn.... Lmao. I mean it'd work for me. Fuck that.

 

[hockeypuck]

How long would it take to die at those temperatures?

I'd hope it was quick for the guys sake.

Burns are rarely a quick death. It's one of the most agonizing ways to die that I've ever seen. I've seen burn patients require the equivalent of 100 mg IV morphine for a single dressing change. For comparison, you get ~7 mg for a kidney stone in the ER.

In blunt trauma, yes. However in response to tissue damage the blood pressure drop is due to vasoactive cytokine release, allowing immune cells to migrate to and respond to localized damage. However when the damage is widespread, widespread vasoactive substances are themselves the cause of blood pressure drop via vasodilation and vasopermeability.

Beyond that, damage to the microcirculation, the capillaries, venules, arterioles, and veins near the surface would also cause a blood pressure drop from sheer mass blood loss. The blood may be contained in a limb (although in this case I assume it will leak out into the water freely), but the blood is no longer in the circulatory system.

The massive insult would also set off a massive norepinephrine/epinephrine/endoprhin response that would also blunt some of the pain signals. Although once the damage reaches the dorsal root ganglia, assuming the person is still conscious, that would be worse pain than anything at the skin. Then again, I'd assume complete uncosciousness by that point.

There are other factors to consider as well. Widespread tissue damage will cause a massive release of substances such as potassium and magnesium, which will interfere with the heart beating and the brain processing. To the point that, in not too long a timespan, you just won't be conscious and/or your heart will go into afib/vfib.

http://www.medbullets.com/step2-3-dermatology/20554/burns
http://www.totalburncare.com/orientation_burn_shock.htm

No, the other posters are more likely to be correct. You conveniently left out the sentence of the stuff you're quoting that all of these physiological injuries occur over a 48h period, not the first few seconds. Some of that happens in the first few minutes, but this 23 year-old definitely felt the pain for at least a couple dozen seconds, if not longer. My bet is that he died from asphyxiation before any injury associated from the burn itself. I've seen 95% total body surface area burn patients screaming and screaming until we can drill an intraosseus line in and slam in fentanyl like no tomorrow. And this is 20 minutes after the burn event.

Not sure why you included those two links at the bottom of your post, since neither addresses consciousness after a burn injury. The vasodilation and vasopermeability you refer to does not lead to hypovolemic shock in the first few minutes after a severe burn.

However...

Unfortunately not. You only faint when there's a large drop in blood pressure to the brain, which does indeed happen when there's extreme trauma like lost limbs. In this case his "fight-or-flight" would have probably kicked in and his blood pressure would have instead INCREASED. Blood loss would have been non-existent at first, and then minimal later thanks to the water pressure against any exposed internals. I'd say it's very unlikely he passed out before drowning.

...there's nothing to say that he didn't pass out before drowning, from purely a vasovagal syncopal response (what laymen call "fainting from shock"). This response can still happen in the setting of trauma, despite the seemingly opposite sympathetic effects of "fight-or-flight."

Surely the severity of the pain would cause you to faint almost immediately?

So, maybe? People can be walking around for minutes after sustaining an ultimately fatal 95-100% TBSA thermal burn. We saw it all the time when elderly men would try to burn the raked leaves in their yard with gasoline, and, whaddyaknow, arthritic knees can't outrun a gasoline trail on fire.

 

[WinFonda]

I doubt there was much suffering. His nervous system was likely overloaded the second he was submerged. There's no reports of him breaking the surface or thrashing.

It probably felt more like a stinging cold all over and then nothing as he slipped into shock and unconsciousness.

Our bodies have a way of protecting us even as we are dieing. If a pain seems too unimaginable or too much to process, it literally probably is.

 

[jblank83]

No, the other posters are more likely to be correct. You conveniently left out the sentence of the stuff you're quoting that all of these physiological injuries occur over a 48h period, not the first few seconds. Some of that happens in the first few minutes, but this 23 year-old definitely felt the pain for at least a couple dozen seconds, if not longer.

Yes, I never said otherwise.

Not sure why you included those two links at the bottom of your post, since neither addresses consciousness after a burn injury. The vasodilation and vasopermeability you refer to does not lead to hypovolemic shock in the first few minutes after a severe burn.

Simply to establish the mechanism of shock in the setting of full body tissue damage versus blunt trauma blood trapping. That is, damage to the full body surface in such a case should quickly lead to circulatory shock.

I'm not fully versed in burns, however I would think immersion (ie 100% body surface) in 90 degree celsius acidic water would result in rapid local tissue, systemic organ, and sympathetic responses. What are your thoughts?

...there's nothing to say that he didn't pass out before drowning, from purely a vasovagal syncopal response (what laymen call "fainting from shock"). This response can still happen in the setting of trauma, despite the seemingly opposite sympathetic effects of "fight-or-flight."

Massive pain stimulation leading to a vasovagal syncope seems like a pretty reasonable assumption.

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

So what this article tells me that if I dispose of a body at Yellowstone, no one will be able to find it?

 

[Rest]

Contact with humans can make it to where the other bison won't accept it into their herd or whatever, and so it was alone and trying to approach people on roads. They said it was a safety concern.

It was. Bison aren't domesticated, they will attack people. If a bison grows up being used to being near humans, if it comes to think that it can approach them and they won't hurt it, once it's an adult it could stroll up to a group of people casually, seeming friendly, and then gore them to death because it's a wild animal.

 

[hockeypuck]

I'm not fully versed in burns, however I would think immersion (ie 100% body surface) in 90 degree celsius acidic water would result in rapid local tissue, systemic organ, and sympathetic responses. What are your thoughts?

Rapid skin local tissue damage, even 100% TBSA, will not immediately kill a robust 23 year-old. The inhalational injury will though, that is the bigger factor. In a 23 year-old, in my opinion, continuously aspirating 90 C acidic water without immersion will lead to the same time of death as aspiration+immersion. People who die in house fires don't die from skin burns; they die from oxygen deprivation from smoke inhalation. The lack of oxygen exchange is far more profound in leading to rapid death than any type of cytokine release from the skin leading to circulatory collapse. I've already said that we've seen elderly men live for many minutes after being covered in a gasoline fire, which is over 900 degrees Celsius, and not have evidence of internal organ physical damage.

Interestingly, acids lead to rapid coagulative protein denaturation that actually slows the rate of burn depth/penetration due to the thick eschar formation. Alkalis lead to liquefaction necrosis, which is worse.

Edit: Potassium and magnesium release into the circulation is not a typical priority in burn resuscitation for thermal injuries. This becomes evident as lactated Ringer's is the first line fluid therapy for resuscitation, a fluid which contains potassium. The arrhythmias you mention become more of an issue with electrical burns (e.g., lightning strike, or a power line worker who touches a live wire).

 

[DeviantBoi]

I bet there's a video of this.

 

[jstripes]

I bet there's a video of this.

Yes. The first thing his sister did, 220 yards away from any other possible people, was pull out her phone and record her brother's death.