Meccanical
Member
They were single player yes.
I had/have friends!
I had/have friends!
New Sonic game rumored to be unviled in February for almost every platform
- Thread starter ShadiWulf
- Start date
DICKS AHOY
Banned
Make boost a replacement for speed shoes, with spindashing/rolling into a ball acting as a more limited version of the boost you can't mindlessly abuse.
It's a fun move to use in Unleashed/Colors/Generations, but I can't help but feel sometimes levels dissolve into 'hold X down for a few minutes while you occasionally jump a few times'. Classic Sonic in Generations wasn't as fast, but felt a lot less automatic and hence more rewarding when I got a crazy good speed-run in.
It's a fun move to use in Unleashed/Colors/Generations, but I can't help but feel sometimes levels dissolve into 'hold X down for a few minutes while you occasionally jump a few times'. Classic Sonic in Generations wasn't as fast, but felt a lot less automatic and hence more rewarding when I got a crazy good speed-run in.
Hitlersaurus Christ
Banned
I'm actually currently writing (and procrastinating) an in depth analysis and an essay for my game design/education class about Sonic 3. The more I play it the more I realize how much I actually disagree with the people who prefer slower platforming to speedy sections. It's still a great game with mostly good level design, but while exploring the level can be fun, the real enjoyment for me comes when I'm rolling down hills, bowling over enemies, and generally going fast.
I think maybe I enjoyed the Adventure games' gameplay partially because of the lack of pinball physics. The camera sucked and sometimes the controls were questionable but ultimately I could go where I wanted to go without having to take angles and physics into account.
In boostless 2D games, though, the lack of proper Sonic physics just feels wrong. In 2D, Sonic needs those pinball physics for the speedy portions to feel satisfying. But when a level has mostly platforming in the vein of most rom hacks, fan games, and parts of Sonic 1, it can be a bit problematic.
I don't know what I'm trying to say but there it is. Actually this post was going to be about an open world-ish game I had thought up a while ago but I gues I will post that later.
I think maybe I enjoyed the Adventure games' gameplay partially because of the lack of pinball physics. The camera sucked and sometimes the controls were questionable but ultimately I could go where I wanted to go without having to take angles and physics into account.
In boostless 2D games, though, the lack of proper Sonic physics just feels wrong. In 2D, Sonic needs those pinball physics for the speedy portions to feel satisfying. But when a level has mostly platforming in the vein of most rom hacks, fan games, and parts of Sonic 1, it can be a bit problematic.
I don't know what I'm trying to say but there it is. Actually this post was going to be about an open world-ish game I had thought up a while ago but I gues I will post that later.
2D promo art ftw
So is somebody forwarding all this to Sega? Is RubyEclipse lurking this thread?
Don't take the Texas thing too seriously, it's a red herring. lol
I was lurking ssmb, and someone there brought up a good point..
you know who is located in texas? Gearbox! SEGA Community Team is probably there doing something related to Aliens, and they probably thought they would tease us for laughs, cause that's how they roll. They LOVE teasing the Sonic fanbase, they do it every opportunity they get.
But the fact they are teasing Sonic related stuff means there will be an announcement soon. Let's just hope its this week and not next week. I mean you guys have seen how they can drag out the teasing, Sonic 4 is a great example of how evil they can get
I was lurking ssmb, and someone there brought up a good point..
you know who is located in texas? Gearbox! SEGA Community Team is probably there doing something related to Aliens, and they probably thought they would tease us for laughs, cause that's how they roll. They LOVE teasing the Sonic fanbase, they do it every opportunity they get.
But the fact they are teasing Sonic related stuff means there will be an announcement soon. Let's just hope its this week and not next week. I mean you guys have seen how they can drag out the teasing, Sonic 4 is a great example of how evil they can get
PeakPointMatrix
Member
Wait, so removing boost (which in itself literally removes complete control from the player) somehow means the game will become an untested, poorly programmed, designed, final fantasy wanna-be? You know classics had no boost to speak of, right? It's removal would actually bring it closer to the philosophy of the original games wherein you earned all of your speed. It wasn't granted with the press of a button with invincibility. Boost is as bad as the boost pads and scripted sections from Adventures. Practically a 'win' button.
The best levels are ones that have a good mix of both. I don't think anybody likes when stages get too slow; does anybody like the moving blocks from Spring Yard? And if they're just pure running/rolling they're also boring.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
I think a lot of the "Sonic games aren't all about speed, man!" was a reaction against mid-2000s Dimps level design where you could kind of just hold right to win.
Of course Sonic games are about speedy traversal of the terrain... but that has to be legitimately earned through fun physics+level design. Hold run to win is a problem, but so is a Sonic focused on slow platforming.
Of course Sonic games are about speedy traversal of the terrain... but that has to be legitimately earned through fun physics+level design. Hold run to win is a problem, but so is a Sonic focused on slow platforming.
Yoshi
Headmaster of Console Warrior Jugendstrafanstalt
Some thoughts on things I've read here:
- Open world Sonic game: What is this shit? Who wants such a thing, have you not played Sonic Adventure's horrible overworld or Sonic 2006 at all? Sonic and open world doesn't fit at all. In fact, speed and open world is difficult in itself
- Being able to repair the Mech shooting or the emerald hunt: There's a reason Sonic got a bad reputation and that reason is: Developing uncalled for, acceptable at best playing alternative play styles. Leave this trash out of the games
- Having more and more playable characters: You know what broke Sonic 2006 more than anything else? This kind of overambition. You can't expect a game two have 10 characters differntiating between them in a meaningful way and still get a good game. Let Sonic Team concentrate on few, but well rounded characters. I'd suggest: Sonic playing like in Sonic Generations / Unleashed, Knuckles playing like Sonic in Sonic Adventure 2, Tails playing like classic Sonic. Maybe Shadow playing like Sonic in Sonic Rush. But that's stretching it already. Sonic Team (together with Dimps) has nailed Sonic in four different ways already, why add even more playstyles - which most likely will suck like all the other playstyles I've not mentioned above (i.e. Omega, Amy, Big, Rouge, Chao Gardening)
- Have a Chao garden: If it needs to be, but make it 100% optional with no emblems, unlockables or even Achievements tied to it. If you want to play a slow simulation game without any challenge get a Tamagotchi >.<
- Limiting boost: Why? If you don't want to boost, don't do it. It's simple as that, no one is forcing you to keep the boost button pressed. Sonic is one of the last fortresses of really fast gameplay, don't try to kill this.
Edit: Hold right to win? Which Sonic game even has that? The one that comes the closest might be Generations, because it's so forgiving with the alternative routes, but still you lose a lot of the flow if you fail to stay on the best route. I'm sure noone can really complete Sonic Adventure (the timed missions...), Sonic Adventure 2 (the A-ranks), Sonic Heroes (the A-ranks), Sonic and the Secret Rings (the Gold medals), Sonic the Shitfest 2006 (the S-ranks), any Sonic Rush game (the S-ranks), Sonic Unleashed (S-ranks and chilidog man), Sonic Colours (S-ranks) or Sonic Generations (S-ranks, but especially some of the tighter timed missions) without playing really well. Really, name the Sonic game that you can perfectly complete without playing well and concentrated >.<.
- Open world Sonic game: What is this shit? Who wants such a thing, have you not played Sonic Adventure's horrible overworld or Sonic 2006 at all? Sonic and open world doesn't fit at all. In fact, speed and open world is difficult in itself
- Being able to repair the Mech shooting or the emerald hunt: There's a reason Sonic got a bad reputation and that reason is: Developing uncalled for, acceptable at best playing alternative play styles. Leave this trash out of the games
- Having more and more playable characters: You know what broke Sonic 2006 more than anything else? This kind of overambition. You can't expect a game two have 10 characters differntiating between them in a meaningful way and still get a good game. Let Sonic Team concentrate on few, but well rounded characters. I'd suggest: Sonic playing like in Sonic Generations / Unleashed, Knuckles playing like Sonic in Sonic Adventure 2, Tails playing like classic Sonic. Maybe Shadow playing like Sonic in Sonic Rush. But that's stretching it already. Sonic Team (together with Dimps) has nailed Sonic in four different ways already, why add even more playstyles - which most likely will suck like all the other playstyles I've not mentioned above (i.e. Omega, Amy, Big, Rouge, Chao Gardening)
- Have a Chao garden: If it needs to be, but make it 100% optional with no emblems, unlockables or even Achievements tied to it. If you want to play a slow simulation game without any challenge get a Tamagotchi >.<
- Limiting boost: Why? If you don't want to boost, don't do it. It's simple as that, no one is forcing you to keep the boost button pressed. Sonic is one of the last fortresses of really fast gameplay, don't try to kill this.
Edit: Hold right to win? Which Sonic game even has that? The one that comes the closest might be Generations, because it's so forgiving with the alternative routes, but still you lose a lot of the flow if you fail to stay on the best route. I'm sure noone can really complete Sonic Adventure (the timed missions...), Sonic Adventure 2 (the A-ranks), Sonic Heroes (the A-ranks), Sonic and the Secret Rings (the Gold medals), Sonic the Shitfest 2006 (the S-ranks), any Sonic Rush game (the S-ranks), Sonic Unleashed (S-ranks and chilidog man), Sonic Colours (S-ranks) or Sonic Generations (S-ranks, but especially some of the tighter timed missions) without playing really well. Really, name the Sonic game that you can perfectly complete without playing well and concentrated >.<.
DICKS AHOY
Banned
Having a ton of dumb gameplay variations was one of (out of several dozen) bad ideas which killed Sonic '06, not the existence of extra characters. I find a lot of Sonic's cast superfluous at best, but this rumor suggests they'd basically all play like Sonic with different stats. Doesn't affect me at all if it's not a SA1/2/Heroes/06 situation and people who like those characters are satisfied.
I don't see why you can't tone down the boost either. As is it's fine but a lot of Unleashed/Generations have portions where it just feels like you hold down the boost button while you go through QTE-style quick-step segments.
I don't see why you can't tone down the boost either. As is it's fine but a lot of Unleashed/Generations have portions where it just feels like you hold down the boost button while you go through QTE-style quick-step segments.
Yoshi
Headmaster of Console Warrior Jugendstrafanstalt
You can tone down the boost, but what for? If someone doesn't want to boost, he doesn't have to. What I said regarding characters was strictly regarding different gameplay styles. But why have different characters who all play alike? That's just a waste.
Because it leads to bad level design where they put in long boring sections where you just boost and sidestep. Also it makes the games too easy and trivializes the enemies.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
Enemies in sonic games have always been trivial
Professor Beef
Banned
I wouldn't call most of the Modern levels in Generations long or boring. Give me more (well-done) Modern-style levels with none of the boost suggestions in this thread, please.
SonicMegaDrive
Member
Nah.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
Im sorry but almost every enemy in sonic games can be ran right past or later on the in the series homing attacked to death
SonicMegaDrive
Member
you're playing the wrong Sonic games then.
I didn't say those sections make up most of the levels, just that they tend to be in the games as an excuse for the boost.
Care to guess what other modern Sonic move I dislike is?
DICKS AHOY
Banned
Nope, but Sonic stuff in particular seems to leak fairly regularly so it's not an entirely unsafe bet to assume SA3 in some form is happening, going off what we've already seen both from SEGA (domain names) and various different fan sites.
Well, it's not entirely safe. There was that rumor a few years ago that Sonic 4 was happening and that never materialized.
Sonic Dimensions, anybody?
The Mana Legend
Banned
I've just realized. Is this the first time in forever we've gone this long without some major Sonic game? It felt like it has been forever.
DICKS AHOY
Banned
I'll give you the latter (though I was under the impression only one site reported on that, and they still claim it WAS a real pitch), but the former?
Dude, we even have videos of it.
SonicMegaDrive
Member
I think the period between SA2 and Sonic Heroes was fairly long. More than two years from what I recall.
Thank you!
What I'm about to say is usually said in these times but, I honestly prefer that as I want a more quality game than a bunch of ones that are rushed.
Sir_Crocodile
Member
Abscene makes the heart grow fonder
so I guess if sega delays it a few thousande years people might actually look forward to it.
KnockOneOff
Banned
I loved Sonic Adventure, hated SA2 when they put in the after level point system and left the storyline weak!
For me to enjoy sonic again they should go back to basic's, a Sonic story, completion of Sonic's levels, then it unlocks another character etc.
I think the whole Sonic games kind of got in a mess with there multiple directions they took, they never stuck with a formula, guess the majority of games do the same these days with trying to change too much (Resident Evil, Gears Of War, Final Fantasy etc)
Also Square Enix! Final Fantasy! Give me back Character Rotation and remove the stupid Auto Battle!
Then i will enjoy your games again.
For me to enjoy sonic again they should go back to basic's, a Sonic story, completion of Sonic's levels, then it unlocks another character etc.
I think the whole Sonic games kind of got in a mess with there multiple directions they took, they never stuck with a formula, guess the majority of games do the same these days with trying to change too much (Resident Evil, Gears Of War, Final Fantasy etc)
Also Square Enix! Final Fantasy! Give me back Character Rotation and remove the stupid Auto Battle!
Then i will enjoy your games again.QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
SonicMegaDrive
Member
There wasn't a homing attack in the 2D Sonic games. Not the ones that count, anyway.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
Goddamit man... read the post.
The only enemies I can think of in the classic Sonic games that really did much of anything to stop you were the Mantis and Crab in Metropolis Zone. Sonic enemies are generally trivial in the classic games.
Sonic 4 this was the same, then Episode II it was for the most part but they did something I'm not really into and made some enemies where you had to hit them with multiple homing attacks.
Sonic 4 this was the same, then Episode II it was for the most part but they did something I'm not really into and made some enemies where you had to hit them with multiple homing attacks.
tiggerkiddo
Member
Don't forget the Starfish...=(
Ah...how could I forget the most devious one of all?
The clever thing they did in Sonic 4 Episode II was create penalties for just homing attacking blindly. Scarabesques (the little guys with the balls) in Oil Desert would punish you for trying to homing attack without care, and if you weren't careful in Sky Fortress, it was easy to get hit by a Clucker's projectile while trying to homing attack a chain of them.
SonicMegaDrive
Member
I don't think my reading comprehension is the problem. But since I'm a nice guy, I'll help you out a bit.
And even then, that's wrong. In the original Sonic games, the enemies are placed in areas where they will hit you, or at the very least slow you down. Some enemies can be tackled easily when going at high speed by simply hitting 'down' and performing the spin move. The problem with this is that using the spin move will cause you to lose all of your momentum, unless you happen to be going downhill. So no, in the original Sonic games, the enemies are hardly 'trivial'. You have to think about how you approach them. You can't just boost or automatically lock onto them. You have to carefully time how you bounce on them or how you spin into them.
In the modern ones, most enemies can simply be ran right through using the boost move. You don't even need to jump over them or avoid them or anything.
Yoshi
Headmaster of Console Warrior Jugendstrafanstalt
Just that in the last few Sonic games (Sonic parts in Sonic Unleashed, Sonic Colours, Sonic Generations bar the Sonic Colours level - and that sucked for a totally different reason) there was no bad level design or boring section. I'll give you that Colours and Generations weren't difficult enough, but that obviously wasn't due to the boost due to those horrible whiners complaining about dieing when they play bad. Sonic Unleashed is quite tough, especially if you're playing it right - i.e. aiming at S-ranks.
As another guy already said, the enemies always were trivial (yes, in the Mega Drive games too, most enemies you could just roll through or jump over, there were only few dangerous enemies, namely the crabs and the green things in Metropolis Zone and those were mostly dangerous by their weird positioning) and enemies shouldn't be all too complex because else they are getting in the way of the flow of the games.
DICKS AHOY
Banned
Sort of unrelated, but you're a a Sonic Retro regular, right (I go there to check up Generations mods)?
Has anybody tried modifying either PC version of the Sonic 4 episodes? The first one has more than just faulty physics as an issue, but I honestly wouldn't mind replaying Episode 2 with better physics, a properly playable Tails and improved music quality.
R_thanatos
Member
i don't mind a open world sonic game if it's done properly !
No 30 sec loading for each mission ( heck , no mission from humans but challenges like sonic adventure dx )
Everyone must be fast in the open world
Small hub so no one complains that you're lost ..
Different locales , SA1 had station square, mystic ruins and other stuff
It's possible to do open world without fucking things up. the 06 city was huge for no reason, full of bugs , and with unnecessary missions.
If they want to do open world, they they have to do it right and they can if they listen to the complains.
We had one last year, in the form of Sonic 4: Episode II. It only feels like a long time because Sega has a strong habit of releasing their main Sonic games in November, whereas Episode II was released in the first half of 2012. So yeah, that's why it feels forever, it's been almost a year since the release of that game.
Retro staff, and unfortunately there's not really any way at the moment to change the physics in either title. You'd have to totally disassemble and reverse engineer the game to make any meaningful changes (unlike, say, Generations, where a lot of the physics variables are defined in relatively easily modified xml files).
Are you suggesting them to copy one of the structure of one of the bad Sonic's game?
Sonic Adventure was really bad. =/
A lot of people think the game is great, myself included. Opinions differ.
.la1n
Member
I am still dealing with my feelings on in the inclusion of having Sonic's debatable friend selection as playable members this time. As long as it isn't forced upon as I had mentioned earlier than it's all alright with me. I still don't see why it would hurt Sonic Team to just stick to Sonic & Tails, Knuckles if need be but why on earth do you need to go beyond that. Focus on the game play and making it tight with fun levels, a lot easier to do when you aren't balancing a game for 11+ friends with their own takes on the levels as well.
edit: Sonic Adventure was fun when I had it along with the Dreamcast when I was able to purchase it, somewhere around day 1 I believe. Having gone back to play it on PSN, it's still pretty fun for the most part, not sure if it's mostly nostalgia or genuine fun. I do know that the game becomes unplayable upon finishing Sonic & Tail's sections.
edit: Sonic Adventure was fun when I had it along with the Dreamcast when I was able to purchase it, somewhere around day 1 I believe. Having gone back to play it on PSN, it's still pretty fun for the most part, not sure if it's mostly nostalgia or genuine fun. I do know that the game becomes unplayable upon finishing Sonic & Tail's sections.