• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

Status
Not open for further replies.

Imtjnotu

Member
Sounds like Sony has more FP32 raw power, while MS has more RT cores.


MS said 40x improvement, while Sony is 19x (2GB/s vs PCIe 4.0 4GB/s?):


What gives? They need to tell us their baseline metric.
MS probably was going by initial load times for installing a game which was notoriously slow as fuck for them this gen
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
But a MS executive said that Project Scarlett "eats monsters for breakfast"... was he bluffing or what?
he was just referring back to the Scorpio (X1X) reveal when he called the X1X a monster.

it had nothing to do with the PS5 rumors indicating its a monster.
 

demigod

Member
I don’t know why Gonzalo is now linked to Sony when I first read that it was linked to MS. Peeps need to make up their minds.

Lets say Gonzalo is ps5, what if its the one that was planned to come out in 2019 and not the 2020 version?

I hope there’s an ability to turn off ray tracing, not everyone thinks is worth sacrificing resolution/performance for it.
 

SonGoku

Member
Ballpark.
  • 80 CU die - no point breaking the 64 limit for a small amount
  • 4 shader engines - seems optimal amount to balance active/disabled ratio
  • 1 dual CU disabled per shader engine - more acceptable chips per wafer
  • 72 CUs active - beast
  • clocked at 1550 - more power efficient
  • 7nm EUV - THE reason to delay from the initial 2019 target?
  • 14.2 (Navi) TF - the magic number
Needs 7nm EUV from the start to be viable
That's right up there with my most optimistic best case scenario
 
I am so conflicted lmao. I am emotionally attached to the 12-14 tflops but i wanna join team 8tflop to avoid feeling dissapointed but i am still gonna feel like shit anyways when they do annouce it lol.

Wanna believe in the dream lol but i feel like sony and ms are buisness people want to invest in a cheaper console to maxamise profits. I really hope they go to being a premium brand this time around. If it ends being 10+tflops i am gonna go naked.
 

Ovech-King

Member
Tflops this , tflops that . Forget about the flops because since Amd introduced Vega , Tflops became obsolete vs their actual resolution + fps capacity.
 
Samsung also offers 7nm EUV:


Supposedly this is the process that will be used for PS4 Super Slim (makes me wonder why they chose Samsung over TSMC, hmmm...)

euv_adv-1.png


Both Sony & MS haven't clarified those details yet.
 

TLZ

Banned
I am so conflicted lmao. I am emotionally attached to the 12-14 tflops but i wanna join team 8tflop to avoid feeling dissapointed but i am still gonna feel like shit anyways when they do annouce it lol.

Wanna believe in the dream lol but i feel like sony and ms are buisness people want to invest in a cheaper console to maxamise profits. I really hope they go to being a premium brand this time around. If it ends being 10+tflops i am gonna go naked.
Join #Team16TF :messenger_sunglasses:

Win hard or fall hard!
 
What is the possible reason that they wouldnt do this? Cost?
"Samsung is currently in lead regarding 7nm and it is "very suitable" as it's at least 30% cheaper per gate to non EUV 7nm"

"Ultimately, EUVL is expected to reduce usage of multi-patterning when producing complex elements of a chip and therefore simplify design process, improve yields, and shrink cycle times (or rather not make them longer in the foreseeable future)."
 
"Samsung is currently in lead regarding 7nm and it is "very suitable" as it's at least 30% cheaper per gate to non EUV 7nm"

"Ultimately, EUVL is expected to reduce usage of multi-patterning when producing complex elements of a chip and therefore simplify design process, improve yields, and shrink cycle times (or rather not make them longer in the foreseeable future)."
Okay if both console manufactures skip using EUV, they would be the dumbest muthafucker son the planet lmao. Cerny would lose my respest instantly lol. Dear god i hope i am wrong
 

ethomaz

Banned
I believe the Samsung process is not suitable for complex chips like x86_64 CPUs and desktop GPUs.

It works better with low complexity chips like ARM and mobile GPUs.

It makes sense to Samsung because they focus is Mobile.
 
Last edited:
I believe the Samsung process is not suitable for complex chips like x86_64 CPUs and desktop GPUs.

It works better with low complexity chips like ARM and mobile GPUs.
Maybe that's why there's a rumor about a Super Slim PS4 APU (110mm2)? Same die size as a mobile SoC.

And there's also this: "We’re confident that 7LPP will be an optimal choice not only for mobile and HPC, but also for a wide range of cutting-edge applications"
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
I am so conflicted lmao. I am emotionally attached to the 12-14 tflops but i wanna join team 8tflop to avoid feeling dissapointed but i am still gonna feel like shit anyways when they do annouce it lol.

Wanna believe in the dream lol but i feel like sony and ms are buisness people want to invest in a cheaper console to maxamise profits. I really hope they go to being a premium brand this time around. If it ends being 10+tflops i am gonna go naked.
but they arent going for a cheaper console. both of them are giving you SSD, hardware RT, an amazing next gen CPU for only $499.

the problem is that AMD wasnt able to deliver with their navi gpus. the TDP is simply awful for such a small GPU. the performance is decent when compared to the vega 64 but not the price which is pretty much the same as the vega 64 two years ago. it doesnt even have RT and is trying to compete with the rtx 2070. its just a shitty gpu overall and thats really not on MS or Sony. AMD gave them a fantastic cpu and fucked them over with the gpu.

their heart was in the right place. they were trying to match nvidia tflops with the new architecture but its basically a half assed attempt and the results are half assed as well.

there is a small chance that the next year version is the true RDNA gpu and ms and sony are using that instead of this pos. but its a small chance. so join team 8 tflops for now and hope for the best.
 
im pretty confident that both systems will be nearly identical in power. Ive also never been a big fan of Sony exclusives (TLOU is the most overrated game of all time) so this gen ill mainly come down to services for me.

MS has been killing it on that front IMO and im ecstatic to see gamepass grown and xcloud come into play
 

vpance

Member
Was this info the first to say PS5 had RT support? Posted Dec 3 2018

https://pastebin.com/PY9vaTsR

-specs CPU 7nm ryzen 8 core 16 threads,unknown speed
GPU 7nm Navi arhitecture around 14TF,its gonna be powerful and power efficient,Sony working with Amd for Navi,some sort of Ray Tracing but will not focus on that,more focus with VR and 4k,much better bandwith overall
24GB Gddr6 + 4gb ddr4 for os,we have 32 gb dev kits
 
  • Like
Reactions: TLZ

Ol'Scratch

Member
I dont, im just making fun of the PS5 lowballin which is just as ridiculous as Sony going with EUV tech and MS not.
But to play devils advocate since everyone seems to like rumors, rumors point to PS5 being further ahead in development maybe Sony got their 7nm EUV tapeout earlier

Plenty of leaks point to PS5 being a Kaiju, 13TF figure going around, dev comments etc
For that 56CUs minimum needed
Stop that. I can advocate for myself. We are not hiring.
 
Last edited:

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
I am so conflicted lmao. I am emotionally attached to the 12-14 tflops but i wanna join team 8tflop to avoid feeling dissapointed but i am still gonna feel like shit anyways when they do annouce it lol.

Wanna believe in the dream lol but i feel like sony and ms are buisness people want to invest in a cheaper console to maxamise profits. I really hope they go to being a premium brand this time around. If it ends being 10+tflops i am gonna go naked.
I don't think X's sold great at $500. And neither did Pro's at $400, when PS4 OG were chipped down to $300-350 or less.

PS4 sold great at $400 as it was the hot console to get, but once it got chipped down, people still went after it than Pro's 2x power for an extra $100.

I'm hoping for a nicely powered $500 system, but you never know. MS and Sony might cap it at $400 again and just go with what flows at that price. X's are still around $400-500 (depending if there's a game bundled), its 6TF and we're only maybe 16 months away from PS5/Scarlett.

Maybe all this "It's going to be around 12TF" is BS and we get a 10 T-Flopper tops at $400.
 
I don't think X's sold great at $500. And neither did Pro's at $400, when PS4 OG were chipped down to $300-350 or less.

PS4 sold great at $400 as it was the hot console to get, but once it got chipped down, people still went after it than Pro's 2x power for an extra $100.

I'm hoping for a nicely powered $500 system, but you never know. MS and Sony might cap it at $400 again and just go with what flows at that price. X's are still around $400-500 (depending if there's a game bundled), its 6TF and we're only maybe 16 months away from PS5/Scarlett.

Maybe all this "It's going to be around 12TF" is BS and we get a 10 T-Flopper tops at $400.
10 tflops is still good
 

SonGoku

Member
We might be fucked boys, brace for impact:
4d900c.png
New die size estimates:
75mm for CPU
81.6mm2 for 320 bit bus
93.32mm2 for 4 SEs (ROPs, cache, etc.)
IO 37.72mm2
10.85mm2 GPU CC (CP, ACEs etc.)
156.48mm2 32DCUs with RT (64CUs)
144.96mm2 without RT
Total:
454.97mm2 With RT - 363.9mm2 on 7nm EUV
443.45mm2 Without RT

Without 7nm EUV AT LAUNCH we are completely and utterly fucked, Albert Penello 8TF redeemed type of fucked
Sorry R R600 for giving you so much shit, you weren't so wrong after all

If consoles launch on plain 7nm expect 40-48CUs max - 8-9TF Max
If they launch on 7nm EUV 56CUs enabled can happen and 11-13TF MAX

Fellow Gaffers its been a pleasure speculating with you all
MsxsV29.gif
 

quest

Not Banned from OT
I think 10tf at 399.99 would be good and get the job done. If it is 8tf at 399.99 we will be looking at mid generation refresh devices again because the launch devices will be so underpowered in a few years. I really am hoping for the near 12tf at 499.99 and no chance at mid generation refresh. I also am afraid if it comes in at 399.99 we will only get a small ram drive ssd with a large mechanical drive.
 
We might be fucked boys, brace for impact:
4d900c.png
New die size estimates:
75mm for CPU
81.6mm2 for 320 bit bus
93.32mm2 for 4 SEs (ROPs, cache, etc.)
IO 37.72mm2
10.85mm2 GPU CC (CP, ACEs etc.)
156.48mm2 32DCUs with RT (64CUs)
144.96mm2 without RT
Total:
454.97mm2 With RT - 363.9mm2 on 7nm EUV
443.45mm2 Without RT

Without 7nm EUV AT LAUNCH we are completely and utterly fucked, Albert Penello 8TF redeemed type of fucked
Sorry R R600 for giving you so much shit, you weren't so wrong after all

If consoles launch on plain 7nm expect 40-48CUs max - 8-9TF Max
If they launch on 7nm EUV 56CUs enabled can happen and 11-13TF MAX

Fellow Gaffers its been a pleasure speculating with you all
MsxsV29.gif
Wait wtf is going on
 

SonGoku

Member
Wait wtf is going on
If the image is accurate, Navi is bigger than i though
What this means is that unless next gen consoles launch on 7nm EUV, we'll be lucky to hit 9TF
Theres still hope though, let's hope 7nm EUV its on Sony/MS plans, in that case the 12tf dream will be real.

It was in front of us all along
ammd-rdna2-2020.jpg
 

Mass Shift

Member
We might be fucked boys, brace for impact:
4d900c.png
New die size estimates:
75mm for CPU
81.6mm2 for 320 bit bus
93.32mm2 for 4 SEs (ROPs, cache, etc.)
IO 37.72mm2
10.85mm2 GPU CC (CP, ACEs etc.)
156.48mm2 32DCUs with RT (64CUs)
144.96mm2 without RT
Total:
454.97mm2 With RT - 363.9mm2 on 7nm EUV
443.45mm2 Without RT

Without 7nm EUV AT LAUNCH we are completely and utterly fucked, Albert Penello 8TF redeemed type of fucked
Sorry R R600 for giving you so much shit, you weren't so wrong after all

If consoles launch on plain 7nm expect 40-48CUs max - 8-9TF Max
If they launch on 7nm EUV 56CUs enabled can happen and 11-13TF MAX

Fellow Gaffers its been a pleasure speculating with you all
MsxsV29.gif

Can already hear " Nearer my God to thee".
 

Gamer79

Predicts the worst decade for Sony starting 2022
According to digital foundry a teraflop does not equal a teraflop very similiar to saying that a higher clocked cpu does not mean better performance between different architectures. If it does come in at 8 teraflops it could be equivalent to a 10+teraflop performance on a different architecture. Real performance can tell.

If these console makers are gloating about 8k(doubt anything but the most simple games will be at that resolution) to 120fps, I highly doubt they are coming out with something under powered.
 

Mass Shift

Member
Wait wtf is going on

Reality is finally setting in. The silence from MS and Sony has finally begun to make sense.

They either have already considered Samsung's 7nm+ solution and adopted it. Or, we should expect no higher than 9TFs from both consoles.

Our main hopes basically rest in previously stated claims of hardware accelerated RT (and those claims are REALLY important now) and the further hope that logic and common sense will be utilized over expediency.
 
We might be fucked boys, brace for impact:
4d900c.png
New die size estimates:
75mm for CPU
81.6mm2 for 320 bit bus
93.32mm2 for 4 SEs (ROPs, cache, etc.)
IO 37.72mm2
10.85mm2 GPU CC (CP, ACEs etc.)
156.48mm2 32DCUs with RT (64CUs)
144.96mm2 without RT
Total:
454.97mm2 With RT - 363.9mm2 on 7nm EUV
443.45mm2 Without RT

Without 7nm EUV AT LAUNCH we are completely and utterly fucked, Albert Penello 8TF redeemed type of fucked
Sorry R R600 for giving you so much shit, you weren't so wrong after all

If consoles launch on plain 7nm expect 40-48CUs max - 8-9TF Max
If they launch on 7nm EUV 56CUs enabled can happen and 11-13TF MAX

Fellow Gaffers its been a pleasure speculating with you all
MsxsV29.gif

it-was-just-a-dream_o_1382701.jpg
 

Ovech-King

Member
If the image is accurate, Navi is bigger than i though
What this means is that unless next gen consoles launch on 7nm EUV, we'll be lucky to hit 9TF
Theres still hope though, let's hope 7nm EUV its on Sony/MS plans, in that case the 12tf dream will be real.

Bro, if Microsoft claims Scarlett is 4 times more powerful than the X and leaks says devs claims PS5 is even more powerful, can you really expect only 8TF ? The stars are aligning ; don't worry they got this 😎
 

CyberPanda

Banned
We might be fucked boys, brace for impact:
4d900c.png
New die size estimates:
75mm for CPU
81.6mm2 for 320 bit bus
93.32mm2 for 4 SEs (ROPs, cache, etc.)
IO 37.72mm2
10.85mm2 GPU CC (CP, ACEs etc.)
156.48mm2 32DCUs with RT (64CUs)
144.96mm2 without RT
Total:
454.97mm2 With RT - 363.9mm2 on 7nm EUV
443.45mm2 Without RT

Without 7nm EUV AT LAUNCH we are completely and utterly fucked, Albert Penello 8TF redeemed type of fucked
Sorry R R600 for giving you so much shit, you weren't so wrong after all

If consoles launch on plain 7nm expect 40-48CUs max - 8-9TF Max
If they launch on 7nm EUV 56CUs enabled can happen and 11-13TF MAX

Fellow Gaffers its been a pleasure speculating with you all
MsxsV29.gif
tenor.gif


The dream is dead Jim. Damn you Lisa Su.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom