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[Imtjnotu]

Sounds like Sony has more FP32 raw power, while MS has more RT cores.


MS said 40x improvement, while Sony is 19x (2GB/s vs PCIe 4.0 4GB/s?):

PS5 Loading Times Will Be 19x Faster Than PS4

This week, Sony Interactive Entertainment’s Mark Cerny officially confirmed the PlayStation 5, and provided the first details on the system, which includes word that it will be backwards compatible with the PS4. One detail that went relatively unnoticed in the information dump though is word on...

comicbook.com

What gives? They need to tell us their baseline metric.

MS probably was going by initial load times for installing a game which was notoriously slow as fuck for them this gen

 

[SlimySnake]

But a MS executive said that Project Scarlett "eats monsters for breakfast"... was he bluffing or what?

he was just referring back to the Scorpio (X1X) reveal when he called the X1X a monster.

it had nothing to do with the PS5 rumors indicating its a monster.

 

[SonGoku]

I still don't get it. Console hardware punches above its weight when they utilize low-level APIs.

I agree but its nice to know the equivalent
Are we looking at a 8tf pos or 10tf+ kaiju?

 

[demigod]

I don’t know why Gonzalo is now linked to Sony when I first read that it was linked to MS. Peeps need to make up their minds.

Lets say Gonzalo is ps5, what if its the one that was planned to come out in 2019 and not the 2020 version?

I hope there’s an ability to turn off ray tracing, not everyone thinks is worth sacrificing resolution/performance for it.

 

[SonGoku]

Ballpark.

• 80 CU die - no point breaking the 64 limit for a small amount
• 4 shader engines - seems optimal amount to balance active/disabled ratio
• 1 dual CU disabled per shader engine - more acceptable chips per wafer
• 72 CUs active - beast
• clocked at 1550 - more power efficient
• 7nm EUV - THE reason to delay from the initial 2019 target?
• 14.2 (Navi) TF - the magic number

Needs 7nm EUV from the start to be viable
That's right up there with my most optimistic best case scenario

 

[TLZ]

GPU:

1.8Ghz
64CU

14TF Navi... ~ 18TF GCN, 10x PS4.

 

[ArabianPrynce]

I am so conflicted lmao. I am emotionally attached to the 12-14 tflops but i wanna join team 8tflop to avoid feeling dissapointed but i am still gonna feel like shit anyways when they do annouce it lol.

Wanna believe in the dream lol but i feel like sony and ms are buisness people want to invest in a cheaper console to maxamise profits. I really hope they go to being a premium brand this time around. If it ends being 10+tflops i am gonna go naked.

 

[Negotiator]

#Team8TF + #Team499 is an oxymoron. Pick one.

 

[ArabianPrynce]

#Team8TF + #Team499 is an oxymoron. Pick one.

its either team 399 + 8tflop

or

team 499 + 12 tflop

 

[SonGoku]

ethomaz where to find detailed 5700 XT info (tmus, rops)
nvm found it

AMD Radeon RX 5700 XT review

A compelling blend of 7nm tech, RDNA architecture updates, and a last minute price drop.

www.pcgamer.com

https://www.amd.com/en/products/graphics/amd-radeon-rx-5700-xt

 

[Ovech-King]

Tflops this , tflops that . Forget about the flops because since Amd introduced Vega , Tflops became obsolete vs their actual resolution + fps capacity.

 

[IceManCat]

What are the chances we see a 7nm euv node?

 

[ResilientBanana]

ethomaz where to find detailed 5700 XT info (tmus, rops)
nvm found it

AMD Radeon RX 5700 XT review

A compelling blend of 7nm tech, RDNA architecture updates, and a last minute price drop.

www.pcgamer.com

https://www.amd.com/en/products/graphics/amd-radeon-rx-5700-xt

The RX5700 XT is where we will be at. the RX5700 XT 50th Anniversary Edition will be the maximum.

 

[SonGoku]

What are the chances we see a 7nm euv node?

I want to say 50-50 but its impossible to tell really.

The RX5700 XT is where we will be at. the RX5700 XT 50th Anniversary Edition will be the maximum.

Nah doubt it, too small a chip

 

[IceManCat]

I want to say 50-50 but its impossible to tell really.

Nah doubt it, too small a chip

50/50 is a decent chance I’d figured it be much lower

 

[SonGoku]

50/50 is a decent chance I’d figured it be much lower

That's just my gut feeling aka tales from my ass though

 

[Negotiator]

Samsung also offers 7nm EUV:

Samsung Starts Mass Production of Chips Using Its 7nm EUV Process Tech

www.anandtech.com

Supposedly this is the process that will be used for PS4 Super Slim (makes me wonder why they chose Samsung over TSMC, hmmm...)

Both Sony & MS haven't clarified those details yet.

 

[TLZ]

I am so conflicted lmao. I am emotionally attached to the 12-14 tflops but i wanna join team 8tflop to avoid feeling dissapointed but i am still gonna feel like shit anyways when they do annouce it lol.

Wanna believe in the dream lol but i feel like sony and ms are buisness people want to invest in a cheaper console to maxamise profits. I really hope they go to being a premium brand this time around. If it ends being 10+tflops i am gonna go naked.

Join #Team16TF

Win hard or fall hard!

 

[ArabianPrynce]

Join #Team16TF

Win hard or fall hard!

LMAO NOOOOO

 

[TLZ]

LMAO NOOOOO

 

[ArabianPrynce]

Samsung also offers 7nm EUV:

Samsung Starts Mass Production of Chips Using Its 7nm EUV Process Tech

www.anandtech.com

Supposedly this is the process that will be used for PS4 Super Slim (makes me wonder why they chose Samsung over TSMC, hmmm...)

Both Sony & MS haven't clarified those details yet.

What is the possible reason that they wouldnt do this? Cost?

 

[Negotiator]

What is the possible reason that they wouldnt do this? Cost?

"Samsung is currently in lead regarding 7nm and it is "very suitable" as it's at least 30% cheaper per gate to non EUV 7nm"

"Ultimately, EUVL is expected to reduce usage of multi-patterning when producing complex elements of a chip and therefore simplify design process, improve yields, and shrink cycle times (or rather not make them longer in the foreseeable future)."

 

[ArabianPrynce]

"Samsung is currently in lead regarding 7nm and it is "very suitable" as it's at least 30% cheaper per gate to non EUV 7nm"

"Ultimately, EUVL is expected to reduce usage of multi-patterning when producing complex elements of a chip and therefore simplify design process, improve yields, and shrink cycle times (or rather not make them longer in the foreseeable future)."

Okay if both console manufactures skip using EUV, they would be the dumbest muthafucker son the planet lmao. Cerny would lose my respest instantly lol. Dear god i hope i am wrong

 

[ethomaz]

I believe the Samsung process is not suitable for complex chips like x86_64 CPUs and desktop GPUs.

It works better with low complexity chips like ARM and mobile GPUs.

It makes sense to Samsung because they focus is Mobile.

 

[Negotiator]

I believe the Samsung process is not suitable for complex chips like x86_64 CPUs and desktop GPUs.

It works better with low complexity chips like ARM and mobile GPUs.

Maybe that's why there's a rumor about a Super Slim PS4 APU (110mm2)? Same die size as a mobile SoC.

And there's also this: "We’re confident that 7LPP will be an optimal choice not only for mobile and HPC, but also for a wide range of cutting-edge applications"

 

[SlimySnake]

I am so conflicted lmao. I am emotionally attached to the 12-14 tflops but i wanna join team 8tflop to avoid feeling dissapointed but i am still gonna feel like shit anyways when they do annouce it lol.

Wanna believe in the dream lol but i feel like sony and ms are buisness people want to invest in a cheaper console to maxamise profits. I really hope they go to being a premium brand this time around. If it ends being 10+tflops i am gonna go naked.

but they arent going for a cheaper console. both of them are giving you SSD, hardware RT, an amazing next gen CPU for only $499.

the problem is that AMD wasnt able to deliver with their navi gpus. the TDP is simply awful for such a small GPU. the performance is decent when compared to the vega 64 but not the price which is pretty much the same as the vega 64 two years ago. it doesnt even have RT and is trying to compete with the rtx 2070. its just a shitty gpu overall and thats really not on MS or Sony. AMD gave them a fantastic cpu and fucked them over with the gpu.

their heart was in the right place. they were trying to match nvidia tflops with the new architecture but its basically a half assed attempt and the results are half assed as well.

there is a small chance that the next year version is the true RDNA gpu and ms and sony are using that instead of this pos. but its a small chance. so join team 8 tflops for now and hope for the best.

 

[Burrito Bandito]

im pretty confident that both systems will be nearly identical in power. Ive also never been a big fan of Sony exclusives (TLOU is the most overrated game of all time) so this gen ill mainly come down to services for me.

MS has been killing it on that front IMO and im ecstatic to see gamepass grown and xcloud come into play

 

[vpance]

Was this info the first to say PS5 had RT support? Posted Dec 3 2018

https://pastebin.com/PY9vaTsR

-specs CPU 7nm ryzen 8 core 16 threads,unknown speed
GPU 7nm Navi arhitecture around 14TF,its gonna be powerful and power efficient,Sony working with Amd for Navi,some sort of Ray Tracing but will not focus on that,more focus with VR and 4k,much better bandwith overall
24GB Gddr6 + 4gb ddr4 for os,we have 32 gb dev kits

 

[rəddəM]

If next gen is more than 12TF I'll be:

 

[Ol'Scratch]

I dont, im just making fun of the PS5 lowballin which is just as ridiculous as Sony going with EUV tech and MS not.
But to play devils advocate since everyone seems to like rumors, rumors point to PS5 being further ahead in development maybe Sony got their 7nm EUV tapeout earlier

Plenty of leaks point to PS5 being a Kaiju, 13TF figure going around, dev comments etc
For that 56CUs minimum needed

Stop that. I can advocate for myself. We are not hiring.

 

[SonGoku]

Stop that. I can advocate for myself. We are not hiring.

?

 

[StreetsofBeige]

I am so conflicted lmao. I am emotionally attached to the 12-14 tflops but i wanna join team 8tflop to avoid feeling dissapointed but i am still gonna feel like shit anyways when they do annouce it lol.

Wanna believe in the dream lol but i feel like sony and ms are buisness people want to invest in a cheaper console to maxamise profits. I really hope they go to being a premium brand this time around. If it ends being 10+tflops i am gonna go naked.

I don't think X's sold great at $500. And neither did Pro's at $400, when PS4 OG were chipped down to $300-350 or less.

PS4 sold great at $400 as it was the hot console to get, but once it got chipped down, people still went after it than Pro's 2x power for an extra $100.

I'm hoping for a nicely powered $500 system, but you never know. MS and Sony might cap it at $400 again and just go with what flows at that price. X's are still around $400-500 (depending if there's a game bundled), its 6TF and we're only maybe 16 months away from PS5/Scarlett.

Maybe all this "It's going to be around 12TF" is BS and we get a 10 T-Flopper tops at $400.

 

[ArabianPrynce]

I don't think X's sold great at $500. And neither did Pro's at $400, when PS4 OG were chipped down to $300-350 or less.

PS4 sold great at $400 as it was the hot console to get, but once it got chipped down, people still went after it than Pro's 2x power for an extra $100.

I'm hoping for a nicely powered $500 system, but you never know. MS and Sony might cap it at $400 again and just go with what flows at that price. X's are still around $400-500 (depending if there's a game bundled), its 6TF and we're only maybe 16 months away from PS5/Scarlett.

Maybe all this "It's going to be around 12TF" is BS and we get a 10 T-Flopper tops at $400.

10 tflops is still good

 

[SonGoku]

We might be fucked boys, brace for impact:

Spoiler

New die size estimates:
75mm for CPU
81.6mm2 for 320 bit bus
93.32mm2 for 4 SEs (ROPs, cache, etc.)
IO 37.72mm2
10.85mm2 GPU CC (CP, ACEs etc.)
156.48mm2 32DCUs with RT (64CUs)
144.96mm2 without RT
Total:
454.97mm2 With RT - 363.9mm2 on 7nm EUV
443.45mm2 Without RT

Without 7nm EUV AT LAUNCH we are completely and utterly fucked, Albert Penello 8TF redeemed type of fucked
Sorry R R600 for giving you so much shit, you weren't so wrong after all

If consoles launch on plain 7nm expect 40-48CUs max - 8-9TF Max
If they launch on 7nm EUV 56CUs enabled can happen and 11-13TF MAX

Fellow Gaffers its been a pleasure speculating with you all

 

[quest]

I think 10tf at 399.99 would be good and get the job done. If it is 8tf at 399.99 we will be looking at mid generation refresh devices again because the launch devices will be so underpowered in a few years. I really am hoping for the near 12tf at 499.99 and no chance at mid generation refresh. I also am afraid if it comes in at 399.99 we will only get a small ram drive ssd with a large mechanical drive.

 

[Fake]

Don't do this.

 

[ArabianPrynce]

We might be fucked boys, brace for impact:

Spoiler

New die size estimates:
75mm for CPU
81.6mm2 for 320 bit bus
93.32mm2 for 4 SEs (ROPs, cache, etc.)
IO 37.72mm2
10.85mm2 GPU CC (CP, ACEs etc.)
156.48mm2 32DCUs with RT (64CUs)
144.96mm2 without RT
Total:
454.97mm2 With RT - 363.9mm2 on 7nm EUV
443.45mm2 Without RT

Without 7nm EUV AT LAUNCH we are completely and utterly fucked, Albert Penello 8TF redeemed type of fucked
Sorry R R600 for giving you so much shit, you weren't so wrong after all

If consoles launch on plain 7nm expect 40-48CUs max - 8-9TF Max
If they launch on 7nm EUV 56CUs enabled can happen and 11-13TF MAX

Fellow Gaffers its been a pleasure speculating with you all

Wait wtf is going on

 

[SonGoku]

Wait wtf is going on

If the image is accurate, Navi is bigger than i though
What this means is that unless next gen consoles launch on 7nm EUV, we'll be lucky to hit 9TF
Theres still hope though, let's hope 7nm EUV its on Sony/MS plans, in that case the 12tf dream will be real.

It was in front of us all along

 

[ArabianPrynce]

If the image is accurate, Navi is bigger than i though
What this means is that unless next gen consoles launch on 7nm EUV, we'll be lucky to hit 9TF
Theres still hope though, let's hope 7nm EUV its on Sony/MS plans, in that case the 12tf dream will be real.

It was in front of us all along

Like N Negotiator said both sony and ms would be dumb as fuck to skip out on EUV

 

[Mass Shift]

We might be fucked boys, brace for impact:

Spoiler

New die size estimates:
75mm for CPU
81.6mm2 for 320 bit bus
93.32mm2 for 4 SEs (ROPs, cache, etc.)
IO 37.72mm2
10.85mm2 GPU CC (CP, ACEs etc.)
156.48mm2 32DCUs with RT (64CUs)
144.96mm2 without RT
Total:
454.97mm2 With RT - 363.9mm2 on 7nm EUV
443.45mm2 Without RT

Without 7nm EUV AT LAUNCH we are completely and utterly fucked, Albert Penello 8TF redeemed type of fucked
Sorry R R600 for giving you so much shit, you weren't so wrong after all

If consoles launch on plain 7nm expect 40-48CUs max - 8-9TF Max
If they launch on 7nm EUV 56CUs enabled can happen and 11-13TF MAX

Fellow Gaffers its been a pleasure speculating with you all

Can already hear " Nearer my God to thee".

 

[Gamer79]

According to digital foundry a teraflop does not equal a teraflop very similiar to saying that a higher clocked cpu does not mean better performance between different architectures. If it does come in at 8 teraflops it could be equivalent to a 10+teraflop performance on a different architecture. Real performance can tell.

If these console makers are gloating about 8k(doubt anything but the most simple games will be at that resolution) to 120fps, I highly doubt they are coming out with something under powered.

 

[CrustyBritches]

 

[vpance]

How trustworthy are those Navi 5700 measurements?

Hype train de-railing. Only coding to the metal can save us now.

 

[SonGoku]

How trustworthy are those Navi 5700 measurements?

Hype train de-railing. Only coding to the metal can save us now.

It was posted by proelite
7nm EUV its our savior
Coding to the metal its a last resort move

 

[Mass Shift]

Wait wtf is going on

Reality is finally setting in. The silence from MS and Sony has finally begun to make sense.

They either have already considered Samsung's 7nm+ solution and adopted it. Or, we should expect no higher than 9TFs from both consoles.

Our main hopes basically rest in previously stated claims of hardware accelerated RT (and those claims are REALLY important now) and the further hope that logic and common sense will be utilized over expediency.

 

[SpinningBirdKick]

We might be fucked boys, brace for impact:

Spoiler

New die size estimates:
75mm for CPU
81.6mm2 for 320 bit bus
93.32mm2 for 4 SEs (ROPs, cache, etc.)
IO 37.72mm2
10.85mm2 GPU CC (CP, ACEs etc.)
156.48mm2 32DCUs with RT (64CUs)
144.96mm2 without RT
Total:
454.97mm2 With RT - 363.9mm2 on 7nm EUV
443.45mm2 Without RT

Without 7nm EUV AT LAUNCH we are completely and utterly fucked, Albert Penello 8TF redeemed type of fucked
Sorry R R600 for giving you so much shit, you weren't so wrong after all

If consoles launch on plain 7nm expect 40-48CUs max - 8-9TF Max
If they launch on 7nm EUV 56CUs enabled can happen and 11-13TF MAX

Fellow Gaffers its been a pleasure speculating with you all

 

[Ovech-King]

If the image is accurate, Navi is bigger than i though
What this means is that unless next gen consoles launch on 7nm EUV, we'll be lucky to hit 9TF
Theres still hope though, let's hope 7nm EUV its on Sony/MS plans, in that case the 12tf dream will be real.

Bro, if Microsoft claims Scarlett is 4 times more powerful than the X and leaks says devs claims PS5 is even more powerful, can you really expect only 8TF ? The stars are aligning ; don't worry they got this

 

[CyberPanda]

We might be fucked boys, brace for impact:

Spoiler

New die size estimates:
75mm for CPU
81.6mm2 for 320 bit bus
93.32mm2 for 4 SEs (ROPs, cache, etc.)
IO 37.72mm2
10.85mm2 GPU CC (CP, ACEs etc.)
156.48mm2 32DCUs with RT (64CUs)
144.96mm2 without RT
Total:
454.97mm2 With RT - 363.9mm2 on 7nm EUV
443.45mm2 Without RT

Without 7nm EUV AT LAUNCH we are completely and utterly fucked, Albert Penello 8TF redeemed type of fucked
Sorry R R600 for giving you so much shit, you weren't so wrong after all

If consoles launch on plain 7nm expect 40-48CUs max - 8-9TF Max
If they launch on 7nm EUV 56CUs enabled can happen and 11-13TF MAX

Fellow Gaffers its been a pleasure speculating with you all

The dream is dead Jim. Damn you Lisa Su.

 

[joe_zazen]

.It isnt that bad, and it will be hilarious listening to MS and Sony sell us a new generation that is 1.33 times the flops of x1x, lol.

 

[CyberPanda]

.It isnt that bad, and it will be hilarious listening to MS and Sony sell us a new generation that is 1.33 times the flops of x1x, lol.

The PR will change and they will talk about some other thing like SSD.