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nowhat
Member
I haven't really kept up with the thread lately, just skimmed it (too much speculation, not enough pastebin) so apologies if this has been discussed in detail, but - now with the Navi architecture, is there still a limit of 64 CUs or not?
(and 19.5TF, don't keep bogarting that joint)
SpinningBirdKick
Banned
ANIMAL1975
Member
it's #Team14.2 by the way, get your numbers right. We can't afford no mistakes, it's a war zone out there!
Mass Shift
Member
If PS5 gets a 80CU chip, you must get a Nostradamus tag.
Your dream predicted it before we even knew of rdna
Evilms
Banned
AMD Radeon VII reaches 'end of life'? - VideoCardz.com
AMD Radeon VII is no more Cowcotland has just confirmed with their sources that AMD Radeon VII is no longer in production. The stores are selling the remaining stock and apparently, no more Radeon VII cards will be made. According to Cowcotland, Radeon VII was declared ‘end of life’ last month...
February-June 2019, RIP Radeon VII.
llien
Banned
Guys, wouldn't 80CU be in "wipes the floor with 745mm2 2080Ti" area?
Lisa said it was there to stay, but Navi is that good.
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Self_Destructive
Member
ResilientBanana
Member
I still don't understand how people think we are getting a $2500 PC for $499 in console form.
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McHuj
Member
But we're not getting a PC. We're getting a 499 console that costs some X dollars. What similar components else where in the consumer market is rather irrelevant as you can't buy the exact console SOC on the market.
If your producing a 7nm 300mm chip, it doesn't really matter what's on it, the production costs will be roughly the same whether it's using Ryzen from 3 years ago or today (there's some variability but not that much). Most semiconductor companies are concerned with average unit cost, there rest like licensing issues for IP is negotiable.
What we have no clue about with both Ryzen and Navi is how much both MS and Sony contributed in the development process. We're they able to negotiate a deal where they paid an upfront cost for R&D and now are buying chips at cost? Probably not, but there are infinite possibilities as to how the business side is financed especially over a 10 year console cycle.
xool
Member
I suppose they still make the AMD Radeon MI60 and MI50 for supercompute stuff ? (which are basically the same chip, not nerfed and 10x the price)
What happened to Bitcoin ? (hope you dead) - the switch from compute flexibility to a focus on pure graphic performance must have hurt crypto performance.
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ResilientBanana
Member
I understand you cannot get the SOC on the market, that much is obvious. But they aren't going to make some super-powered console that is more powerful than most of their CPU's and GPU's but costs less than their mid-range components. It makes no sense. If that were the case, they would just make SOC's for gaming PC's with a custom socket.
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sonomamashine
Member
Sony has good studios they can make $h!t happen even tho i think MS gonna release a superior console, i disagree with you Stadia gonna sell a ton it's like Nintendo they are targeting kids who spend a lot of time on youtube (pewdiepie n $h!t) just click on the description to play the same game as "their idols"
that's songoku for ya, o well EUV ............, company's like Sony & MS don't rely on future or in production tech to make products, they already said 2020, what if it's not ready ?
cross gen games graphics usually tells you what to expect, add 30% to 50% best case scenario difference, look at the last of us Ps4 and Uncharted 4 how do they compare to you, Cyberpunk, Halo, you can be sure that this is it, you have MS at E3 showing their best IP and you expect to not show their best ? usually studios always lie on E3 trailers with better graphics etc ... to attract more players .
THE:MILKMAN
Member
I agree. I feel some are going to be disappointed no matter what though. It would be nice to get cutting edge specs but it just isn't realistic.
KURDISTAN YPG
Member
So fellas, i font post much here and i pretty dont know wtf half you are talking bout most of the time, But can anyone tell me whats the stronger console as of rumours? 
Mass Shift
Member
Well You just touched upon one of the key fundamentals that separate PC gamers from console gamers. Imagine forcing PC gamers to buy pre-baked APUs over the option to choose and configure their components the way they want.
Might as well drop a nuke after that decision because that would be the only way to control the revolt that would follow.
The custom touches that Sony and Microsoft make to their own silicon is up to them, not AMD. And it is in AMD's interest to accommodate their console manufacturing partners as the millions of components they order from them are a significant part of their revenue stream that also pumps billions into their R&D.
Negotiator
Banned
A "custom socket"? This is technically impossible.
Console APUs are soldered for a reason, including DRAM chips.
In other words, you cannot have GDDR in DIMMs. There's a reason PC APUs are severely gimped.
Fake
Member
Maybe some 'PC gamers' will be dissapointed with specs, but I'll never been dissapointed with what devs could make with this custom hardware. Thats where the magic happens.
Besides, the CPU jump is very high in comparison with gpu no doub, so can't understand the dissapoint, unless of course some here want Sony break with AMD and put intel+nvidia on future playstation consoles... At low price of course. /s
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ResilientBanana
Member
The point I was trying to make is that, you aren't going to get 11-14TFin a small console that costs $499. Not that PC's will start getting SOC's, I was being sarcastic. Sony and Microsoft can't lose their asses on consoles by hundreds of dollars per console and don't need to reach those numbers to have amazing visuals or gameplay. The beleif that we will be using EUV to boost performance is dumb, if anything the consoles will start out DUV and a slim model or revision will be released using EUV to reduce imperfections in production.
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Mass Shift
Member
At the very least EUV makes economical sense. In the most practical sense, a 20% performance boost is nothing to thumb our noses at. So the belief isn't dumb, it's just being hopeful.
ResilientBanana
Member
Is the process cheaper than DUV? I'm reading that it's not and that could play a role in whether not the process is used.
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THE:MILKMAN
Member
An even more important (unknown and risky) factor would be if EUV in a big APU chip can be made in the vast quantities of a console? Between both next-gen systems we're talking upward of 2 million chips a month!
DUV would be much less of a risk and of course at least a year more mature and had a pipe cleaner and this month Navi.
Oh I agree. Right now I'm pretty sure in a couple of ways the systems seem to be shaping up better than my expected specs already. Anything more will just be gravy.
Negotiator
Banned
TeamGhobad
Banned
nexgen hiring
ethomaz
Banned
That made no sense actually.AMD Radeon VII reaches 'end of life'? - VideoCardz.com
AMD Radeon VII is no more Cowcotland has just confirmed with their sources that AMD Radeon VII is no longer in production. The stores are selling the remaining stock and apparently, no more Radeon VII cards will be made. According to Cowcotland, Radeon VII was declared ‘end of life’ last month...videocardz.com
February-June 2019, RIP Radeon VII.
The MI50 and MI60 will be discontinued too? I don't think so.
The actual chip will be in production until a new one is delivered next year.
That rumor seems a bit weird.
TeamGhobad
Banned
its not. Navi is far superior. in with the new, out with the old.
ethomaz
Banned
Navi is not related with MI50 or MI60 products.
GCN is the architecture that will continue powering that market.
Are you trying to say AMD is killing MI50 and MI60?
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TeamGhobad
Banned
thats fine. but vega products sucks. my cousin bought the vega 64 and the low end navi smokes it. all hail Navi.
ethomaz
Banned
That is not Vega 64...
Radeon VII is still the top perform in AMD lineup and for the prosumer and HPC market (MI50, MI60) the only option.
SonGoku
Member
No, the SEs are much more capable now
With 2 extra SEs (for a total of 4), up to 80CUs (40DCUs) is theoretically possible.
That said i think 60-66CU is the sweet spot for consoles
On 7nm EUV a 80CU APU would take ~400mm2 and yes it would destroy the 2080Ti even with a paltry 1550MHz clock (14.2TF)
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LordOfChaos
Member
Vega isn't going anywhere as their compute architecture until there's a replacement. The new Mac Pro uses chips that are the uncapped VII (or the MI50). Navi is more efficient at gaming, but partially by way of reducing its optimization for compute.
Part of the problem with Vega was that AMD didn't split out their gaming and compute lines as Nvidia did, costing less R&D to just use the same for both, but that didn't go great.
SonGoku
Member
10-12TF wont be the best AMD/Nvidia can do come late 2020
I agree 14TF is pushing the limits but 10-12TF its a grounded expectation
Yes
TSCM claims yields are on par with DUV.
What cross gen game this gen gave you that vibe?
The only crossgen game that was even remotely impressive was BF4 and that used PC as lead platform.
That's just a testament of what the PS3 HW was capable off when put in the right hands. It looks 100% last gen at higher resolution
Tiny corridors and low rez texture work, if we could emulate the PS3 version at higher resolution it would look just as as good
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Evilms
Banned
AMD 7nm Navi 14 GPU Leaked, Features 24 CUs & 1900MHz Clock Speed
Just a little over two weeks back we reported on the plethora of AMD Radeon RX 5000 series graphics cards that were leaked by AMD's leading Add-In-Board partner Sapphire. Which included the Radeon RX 5900 series, 5800 series, 5700 series and 5600 series. The leaked graphics card SKUs ,which were...
wccftech.com
THE:MILKMAN
Member
I wasn't talking about yields, more the cycle time. I wonder if for a mass produced product like a console chip whether they can make enough wafers a day yet?
As for the TSMC claim that yields are on par with DUV then I would ask for what chip? I believe the first chip to be made in mass quantities will be the Kirin 985 mobile chip or if not the Apple A13? They are very different to a 350+mm^2 HPC chip.
SonGoku
Member
That's entirely dependent on yields though
True but if yields are on par with DUV for mobile chips, it bodes well for bigger chips next year
Remember mobile SoCs are produced in the million of units, much more than any console launch, and EUV is supposed to make manufacturing easier so better yields. 7nm EUV is not a new process either.
btw im not claiming it will happen, just speculating on the posibility which is not as far fetched and people make it out to be.
xool
Member
Yields as "defects per square cm" is die size independent .. and can be extrapolated to other sizes. (if they're as good for 88mm2 they should be as good but lower for 300mm2 -same between different processes)
But I don't think they've yet given numbers for yields - so the point is moot
THE:MILKMAN
Member
I will concede technically EUV can't be ruled out but for a few reasons I would be very surprised if they did use it. Hopefully we find out soon!
SonGoku
Member
Another possibility is going with a big DIE on 7nm DUV ( say ~390-400) for late 2020 launch and then shrink to 330-340mm2 on 6nm come late 2021/early 2022. 6nm is design compatible with regular 7nm so its basically a "free" shrink for cost reductions.
Going with 7nm EUV from the start will enable more performance and less cost, so that's the preferable outcome.
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bitbydeath
Member
So fellas, i font post much here and i pretty dont know wtf half you are talking bout most of the time, But can anyone tell me whats the stronger console as of rumours?
It's been a battle of Navi10 (8-9TFs) vs Navi20.
(10-14TFs).
I'd argue it is most likely Navi20 since Navi10 doesn't support the already announced Ray-Tracing while others want to lower their expectations just in case.
Imtjnotu
Member
ps5 gpuAMD 7nm Navi 14 GPU Leaked, Features 24 CUs & 1900MHz Clock Speed
Just a little over two weeks back we reported on the plethora of AMD Radeon RX 5000 series graphics cards that were leaked by AMD's leading Add-In-Board partner Sapphire. Which included the Radeon RX 5900 series, 5800 series, 5700 series and 5600 series. The leaked graphics card SKUs ,which were...
THE:MILKMAN
Member
SonGoku
Member
5.8TF but punches like 8.12TF GCN (5.8*1.4 = 8.12)
Penello redeemed!
Evilms
Banned
sonomamashine
Member
sonomamashine
Member
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