TheSpecialOne
Banned
It would be a personal attack if I were the only one saying it. Yet every where you go, everyone says it. These are just observations. Look in the mirror old man.
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bitbydeath
Member
I don't think you're getting it.
The 'metal' is hardware. So when you code to the metal you are writing code specifically for that hardware instead of at an OS level. This means the execution speed is performed faster which in turn reduces power consumption and these reductions lead to massive ripple effects in what's produced.
There is nothing magical about it, it's a simple perk for only having to write to one defined piece of hardware.
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TLZ
Banned
Yo. If you start claiming things like you've worked with/for so and so and met and know them, then people will ask for receipts. Otherwise everyone will come in here claiming they're bigshots and it'll be a circus.
If you want to go down that road, at least verify yourself with the mods here.
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llien
Banned
Back in 2005 Moor's law was working and 40% faster next gen card was "meh".
Look at Witcher on Switch.
Check how insanely laughable switch hardware is.
And show us similar PC config that can run Witcher like Switch does.
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1080 Ti uses 16nm FinFET, it's an early 2017 GPU. How is 300W relevant in a 7nm APU released in late 2020?
I remember back in 2005 people saying RSX cannot be equal to 2 x GeForce 6800 Ultra.
Die shrinks exist for a reason.
Not true.
Amiga Blitter, PS2 EE VUs, Cell SPUs, unified shaders/GPGPU have something in common.
It's not a coincidence that Demoscene studios tend to excel in these platforms:
How Resogun uses the PS4’s architecture to create ‘chaos’
Your source for the latest in video games, sci-fi, fantasy, tabletop games, anime, horror, books, and comics.www.polygon.com
AMD's project Fusion started back in 2006 and was heavily influenced by Cell.
Sony got a Cell successor in a more streamlined x86/GCN format (semi-custom AMD APU).
GNMX is a high-level, DX11-esque API:
How The Crew was ported to PlayStation 4
Ubisoft Reflections tells the story of how it brought the new Ivory Tower driving game to PS4.www.eurogamer.net
Vulkan is more akin to GNM. They don't need yet another low-level API.
Apple will use 5nm EUV next year. Always one step ahead.
Here's an example from ND:
PCs tend to use the CPU for those algos.
Apple is using n7p an not n7+ for A13. Would be interesting to know the reasons behind the decision to skip n7+ and leave that for Huawei. If they are using Zen2 (known) and something like RDNA 1.5 (unknown), n7p might be the way to go to save the node conversion for Zen2. But we will see..
bhunachicken
Member
I wonder what specs a PC would need to run Horizon: Zero Dawn, Days Gone, etc. in 1080p at 30fps?
Physiognomonics
Member
I think It won't be the GPU. The GPU was the most and is still going to be the most important part of consoles, more than ever. Memory size will be though (if both have 16GB). Devs will have to use SSD streaming efficiently.
Fake
Member
Its my guess. In comparison with CPU and custom SSD.
Fake
Member
I was expecting 10~14 as well, but since RDNA maybe 8~10. Just hope for the better.
I not saying will be a weak piece of hardware, just not strong jump as the CPU and the custom SSD this time.
pawel86ck
Banned
Your idea with thread heritage was really absurd. No moderator should be able to give other people rights to edit someone else work and especially when people can easily make continuation of this thread, and just call it part two. It doesnt need to be Negotiator (my post was a joke for people with a sense of humor) and it can be pretty much everyone. However some people have more potential for work like this, because not everyone here is:
- respectful to others
- can speek english fluently (for example I cant)
- write detailed posts
- have the knowledge about hardware and technology
Negotiator is clerly someone with knowledge and he write very detailed posts, but I can see also other people with potential to do the work. For example SlimySnake, CrustyBritches and in fact even VFXVeteran (he clearly has the knowledge and credentials like very few people here, although some of you may not like him for his realistic point of view in regards to consoles).
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Negotiator
Banned
But you said previously:
Listen, I don't want to devalue your job, you obviously understand what PBR is and various graphics techniques in general. Speaking of PBR, Beyond Two Souls (last-gen game) did it on PS3 (400GF machine). It looked like a next-gen game thanks to that, despite the fact RSX was considered weak.
I know stuff such as programmable shaders exist in the CGI industry for a long time (Toy Story anyone?). It wasn't nVidia that invented shaders or T&L, SGI had them long time ago.
With that being said, you have to understand that making real-time graphics with a tight rendering budget (16/33ms per frame) on fixed-spec hardware (such as home computers, early PCs and consoles) is far more difficult than offline CGI rendering in a supercomputer farm.
If you're a PC fan (I don't know when you started PC gaming), I suggest to do some research about Demoscene and what they achieved back in the day in relatively underpowered PCs:
For people who don't know who Future Crew is, it's Remedy Entertainment and Futuremark these days. Finland has a huge Demoscene tradition.
Sure thing:
The making of Gears 5: how the Coalition hit 60fps - and improved visual quality
The importance of the triple-A first-party blockbuster can't be understated - a spectacular amount of time, money and e…
www.eurogamer.net
They use GPGPU compute for ray traced shadows.
Killzone also has ray-tracing for reflections since 2013:
The technology of Killzone Shadow Fall
It was an irresistible opportunity. Just before the launch of Killzone Shadow Fall, Guerrilla Games offered us the chan…
www.eurogamer.net
Again: keep in mind that we're talking about fixed-spec hardware released back in 2013 with no hardware accelerated RT (such as nVidia's RTX).
Of course:
Yes, they use GPGPU compute for tesselation, instead of the fixed-function unit (it wasn't very efficient in GCN 1.1, I think they improved it in Polaris).
As always you have to remember that we're talking about fixed-spec hardware that is being programmed in totally unconventional ways. That's the Demoscene philosophy in a nutshell.
Come on now, an old man (this isn't an insult IMHO) should know about Demoscene wizardry! You're not a Gen Z kid, there's no excuse.
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CrustyBritches
Gold Member
I just noticed the discussion on how to go about updating this thread and I wanted to share my thoughts.
This thread is SonGoku's and needs to stay our main thread, especially if what people are saying happened to him is true. Firstly, I would consult the mods to see if they can insert an unnumbered post after post #1 without breaking the thread. If this doesn't work I propose that we coordinate with
Imtjnotu
to alter post #2 with updated information and label it "Part II". I will gift the GAF Gold to make it shine and we can continue our push to 20K posts and 1 million views.
I've made many "consolidation/timeline" type posts, so I have easy access to the history and links to a lot of next-gen leaks. Let me know and I'll help out any way I can.
This thread is SonGoku's and needs to stay our main thread, especially if what people are saying happened to him is true. Firstly, I would consult the mods to see if they can insert an unnumbered post after post #1 without breaking the thread. If this doesn't work I propose that we coordinate with
Imtjnotu
to alter post #2 with updated information and label it "Part II". I will gift the GAF Gold to make it shine and we can continue our push to 20K posts and 1 million views.I've made many "consolidation/timeline" type posts, so I have easy access to the history and links to a lot of next-gen leaks. Let me know and I'll help out any way I can.
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sonomamashine
Member
And it's ok, 2 years ago i was expecting Vega 56 perf so anything above that is good compared to 1,8Tf.
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SmokSmog
Member
Probably no PC can run it without changes.
SmokSmog
Member
PS4 pro 8core 2.1Ghz = 340 points in Cinebench R15
PS4 8core 1.6Ghz= 260 points
I5 2500k 4core stock = 460 points
4,5Ghz= 600 points ~
5ghz= 650 points-
Ryzen 3700x 8C/16T 4.15GHZ = 2194points
PS5 8C/16T 3.2GHZ = 1690 points
Jaguar 1core 45 points at 2,1 GHZ
I5 2500k 1core 150points at 4,5GHZ
PS4 pro CPU benchmark on Linux
PS4 8core 1.6Ghz= 260 points
I5 2500k 4core stock = 460 points
4,5Ghz= 600 points ~
5ghz= 650 points-
Ryzen 3700x 8C/16T 4.15GHZ = 2194points
PS5 8C/16T 3.2GHZ = 1690 points
Jaguar 1core 45 points at 2,1 GHZ
I5 2500k 1core 150points at 4,5GHZ
PS4 pro CPU benchmark on Linux
Fake
Member
Was a ideia. Far from ideal. Terrible or not you should stop suggestings members if you don't like my ideia or even better... thinking about better options rather than criticize others. Move on.
Stop acting like a mod.
SonGoku
never fit into any part of your list, however he was the thread creator and did an excellent job.See? Thats was a good ideia. Indeed, mods could update the missing info the first post never get. We still should giveI just noticed the discussion on how to go about updating this thread and I wanted to share my thoughts.
This thread is SonGoku's and needs to stay our main thread, especially if what people are saying happened to him is true. Firstly, I would consult the mods to see if they can insert an unnumbered post after post #1 without breaking the thread. If this doesn't work I propose that we coordinate with
SonGoku
a chance. I know he will back sometime. I guess 'Mod of War' was far ahead others mods about this thread intention.Indeed. You do that.
Mod of War
could help us in that BTW. I remember one particular site outsite the neogaf with have ALL THE INFO from both PS5 and Scarlett and was posted here a long time ago. In fact, I gonna look right now in that moment someone posted that here.
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DeeDogg_
Banned
what happened?I just noticed the discussion on how to go about updating this thread and I wanted to share my thoughts.
This thread is SonGoku's and needs to stay our main thread, especially if what people are saying happened to him is true. Firstly, I would consult the mods to see if they can insert an unnumbered post after post #1 without breaking the thread. If this doesn't work I propose that we coordinate with
I've made many "consolidation/timeline" type posts, so I have easy access to the history and links to a lot of next-gen leaks. Let me know and I'll help out any way I can.
CrustyBritches
Gold Member
I don't know. Somebody mentioned he was from HK and they have protests going on. I always thought he was from South America. Regardless I think we should keep this thread until it hits the post limit, or until he states he's done with it. Just my 2 cents.
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GermanZepp
Member
SonGoku
is from Uruguay, hope is fine. This page has lot of the info
https://www.ps5playstation5.com/
demigod
Member
Something is wrong with the posting. Not sure why it's doing it several times with only 1 click.
sonomamashine - I'm a developer. Game engines aren't written like the old ways. I'm TELLING YOU this is a fact! If you don't believe me, then download the UE4 engine and look at it's code. ND uses their own custom engine and shader language but it's NOT MAGIC! It runs on a "linux-esque" OS and it does nothing fancier than Vulkan, DX12, or any other API. If you coded to the bare metal (which I do on my job), it is only because the hardware is so limited that we'd need manage our memory footprint, cpu cycles, threads, and other libraries. It's a pain in the ass. A dot product is a dot product. Texture lookups are texture lookups. All of the skin on Drake, etc.. was written in a shader language. There is nothing that the PS can do that makes up the performance gap of PC hardware. To add to that, you are forgetting all the other 3rd party developers that also have to run their engines on the consoles too! Give me ONE example where there is a feature in any PS4 exclusive that couldn't be done on the Xbox? Let's say.... 4k/60? Nope. How about 16x anisotropic filtering? Nope. Any volume shadows in world space? Nope. Call out the magic, please!?!
You wanna make up your mind? Coding =/= to being a game developer. What games have you actually developed? Get off your high horse, you're being called out for a reason. Can we get
Mod of War
or someone to verify him.
VFXVeteran
Banned
When I started at Lockheed over 2yrs ago, I spent the better part of those years working on our own rendering engine for the Navy/Air Force. They valued my knowledge in CG much more than the typical game developer they had been used to looking for. I reworked as much as I could until I got bored and moved to another department. It had too many hands touching it over the years without any real remake. So yes, I've worked on realtime "gaming" pipelines. Yes, there are constraints to be made and tricks to squeeze in certain features into a game that you don't need in film. However, film is much much harder to understand the theory that eventually gets propagated to gaming. Film = scientists. Game programmers = really good algorithm and excellent design pattern skills. Game programmers would do excellent in a whiteboard test where the film developers would do horrible. However, the film guys will know more math and know the science behind the techniques. I wouldn't ask a film guy to write me an efficient dynamic programming function that solves a problem in O(n2). Instead I'd want him to write the rendering equation (math terms) and explain to me how to create a sample on a hemisphere?
I'm sure you would know but realtime graphics design is literally leaving the closed programming paradigm and having a fully OO pipeline with multithreading in a general rendering engine that's cross platform. ND would love to create a general rendering engine that can run across platforms. It would be less work to port, and they can focus on content and keep a stable and robust pipeline. That's what Kim (CTO) is pushing over at Epic. I worked with those guys from the Matrix days and they can't wait to get a CG movie run in realtime. Most pipelines at Disney, Dreamworks, WB, etc.. have realtime lighting engines and use GPGPU (i.e. CUDA) as a basis for offloading a lot of computations from the CPU. In that regard, they are already graphics programmers with equivalent experience to gaming companies.
I'll check it out.
Sure thing:
The making of Gears 5: how the Coalition hit 60fps - and improved visual quality
The importance of the triple-A first-party blockbuster can't be understated - a spectacular amount of time, money and e…
They use GPGPU compute for ray traced shadows.
---snip---
I will take a look at these demos and papers. I have a feeling it's not what I'm really looking for, but it would be fair for me to check it out.
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Imtjnotu
Member
I can and will do anything to update and help the thread move along.I just noticed the discussion on how to go about updating this thread and I wanted to share my thoughts.
This thread is SonGoku's and needs to stay our main thread, especially if what people are saying happened to him is true. Firstly, I would consult the mods to see if they can insert an unnumbered post after post #1 without breaking the thread. If this doesn't work I propose that we coordinate with
I've made many "consolidation/timeline" type posts, so I have easy access to the history and links to a lot of next-gen leaks. Let me know and I'll help out any way I can.
sonomamashine
Member
Imtjnotu
Member
Fake
Member
Are you feeling OK?
Thats reply was not for you dude.
Thats the spirit. Gonna enter in contact with mods after everything is collected. Everyone who want to help please feel free to do it so.
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FranXico
Member
Might as well have tweeted "water is wet".
FrostyJ93
Member
Some people are just that stupid unfortunately.
Negotiator
Banned
FranXico
Member
It says IOS two lines above it. What about that?
Negotiator
Banned
You misunderstood. His point was that it says Switch two lines above "Erebus", so Erebus is not a Switch codename.
pawel86ck
Banned
If I would be a moderator here, all 8TF team members would be banned and no free speech would be allowedWas a ideia. Far from ideal. Terrible or not you should stop suggestings members if you don't like my ideia or even better... thinking about better options rather than criticize others. Move on.
Stop acting like a mod.
See? Thats was a good ideia. Indeed, mods could update the missing info the first post never get. We still should give
Indeed. You do that.
. I'm joking man
, of course any people here have the right to write their own opinions or suggestions in regards to this thread. However I really think it would be strange if someone would edit SonGoku work without his knowledge. Crustybritches had good suggestion with altering #2 post and as I can see you too liked his idea.
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Gamernyc78
Banned
Because since the lens of truth days and DF earlier generation days tht was the narrative everytime a new Naughty Dog game came out, Sony Santa Monica game, Polyphony or Guerilla game. Those devs always passed graphics benchmark amongst eachother and professionals were not shy about talking them up. Those devs are just beasts at getting more out of hardware and thy are the cream of the crop. I'd add Rockstar to tht list and very few others.
ZywyPL
Banned
Well, recently there is this leak spreading around about Sony patenting some new gaming cartridge tech:
At this point, with 100-150GB games, anything better than even the most up-to-date bluray would be a godsend if you ask me.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
What is "TST2" for the platform/storefront?
Neofire
Member
Who ever said indirect competition never hurt Sony? Of course the PC is competing with consoles because ummm it plays games and very well I might add on top of being cheaper. Let's not be so naive to the facts, many on this very forum would love for all of Sony's titles to come to pc. That would cripple their ecosystem and I for one love that ecosystem and it ceasing to exist would be detrimental to the gaming industry. Business 101 people, it's a very simple concept.
CrustyBritches
Gold Member
Concerning "Erebus":
PS5 Codename is 'Prospero', which is in line with previously leaked Shakespearean names Gonzalo, Ariel, Flute, and Oberon. According to the AquariusZi Taiwan foundry/factory leaks, 'Oberon' is the chip they are currently re-testing.
Arjan Brussee's Linkedin: "2018 .... returned to Epic Games after 20 years (!). First projects, project lead on Fortnite Mobile and Switch"
PS5 Codename is 'Prospero', which is in line with previously leaked Shakespearean names Gonzalo, Ariel, Flute, and Oberon. According to the AquariusZi Taiwan foundry/factory leaks, 'Oberon' is the chip they are currently re-testing.
TLZ
Banned
Probably just means Test 2, as in still in testing phase 2 of the new psn, I guess?
llien
Banned
Soo, that "super duper cache" thing cannot be cheap.
And from there on, there are the following options:
1) Have phone like "128Gb version", "256Gb version" etc
2) Ship with something small or, more likely, nothing (yay, cheaper base console=better sales) and sell the cartridges of various sizes to those who want better experience
I also recall AMD's High-Bandwidth-Cache, mentioned with HBM products, that came from nowhere. Was it, perhaps, caused by the original PS5 using expensive HBM memory? (years ago there was no Navi) Was Sony the reason why they even developed it? Could it be the concept that lead to "fast SDD in PS5"?
And from there on, there are the following options:
1) Have phone like "128Gb version", "256Gb version" etc
2) Ship with something small or, more likely, nothing (yay, cheaper base console=better sales) and sell the cartridges of various sizes to those who want better experience
I also recall AMD's High-Bandwidth-Cache, mentioned with HBM products, that came from nowhere. Was it, perhaps, caused by the original PS5 using expensive HBM memory? (years ago there was no Navi) Was Sony the reason why they even developed it? Could it be the concept that lead to "fast SDD in PS5"?
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ZywyPL
Banned
Except consoles NEVER pay for themselves, it takes BILLIONS to design and manufacture them, and then the final product is sold at a loss, or just a tiny tiny profit at very best, it was literally just a few bucks on the base 400$ systems at their release back in 2013-2014. Selling the games on the other hand, now this is a different story - sure, by selling games on PC Sony wouldn't get the platform ownership revenue, this would go to Steam, Epic, GoG etc., but still, quite a chunk of those 60$ would go into their pockets.
I don't know why Sony fans act like Sony wouldn't make any money at all if they offer their games on PC, as their consoles would become "obsolete", so they say, but somehow, EA, Ubi, Activision, Rockstar, Bethesda, Blizzard, CDPR and so on make shit-ton of money without owning a single hardware, not even once. MS already made their calculation, they don't even offer their games on PC exclusively on MS Store anymore, wherever there's money to be made they want to make it. They even try to hook up PC games with a subscription with Game Pass., 10$ is 10$ after all. Video games is just a business like every other, it's all about the money, nothing more, nothing less. But it's up to the companies themselves to figure out what suits them best.
Negotiator
Banned
Because you need exclusives to kickstart a closed/proprietary platform, whether it's Killzone Shadow Fall (PS4) or Zelda BoTW (Switch).
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