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[mancs]

Don't pushhh meeeeeeee ..
Lmao.

 

[Dibils2k]

I play on a pro, and have been enjoying 4k gaming for a while , never said 4k gaming is a waste, ever, and would never go back to standard hd.
using that as a defence is weak, and detracting.

On another note.
I also enjoyed 1080p a very good while before most did ,on My Panasonic plasma back in the day.

The difference between VHS and standard definition , to dvd on a hd plasma was staggering , I imagine the trend to continue, so long as there is details captured, rendered , and made to be shown , on compliant , compliances

hate to break it to you but you are not really enjoying 4k gaming on a PS4 Pro... its 1440p majority of the time

 

[mancs]

hate to break it to you but you are not really enjoying 4k gaming on a PS4 Pro... its 1440p majority of the time

Ohhh , I knew that , that isn't in discussion , 1080p is..... Hd .

Darn him breaking info to me I know. *Fist Taps knee* sarcastically.....

 

[ToadMan]

in regards to sony fans, i am talking about games... how they say 4k doesnt matter in games but apparently do in UI?

PS4 Pro UI is 4k, more powerful Xbox One X UI is 1080p... nothing has changed, yet sony fans are trying to make a big deal out of it lol

Of course it matters for the UI.

I can watch a movie from 50 years ago on my 4k TV and it's "fine" in terms of eye strain and clarity for it's age.

But I don't want the TV menus at that low res. I need to read and focus on small areas of the screen for that.

There's clearly a difference between detail for text and menus the user has to read vs full screen moving images.

 

[kyliethicc]

There are x8 and x16 SSDs, very expensive though. I was talking specifically about the PCIe lanes in the post he quoted, LOL. I've accepted that he intended to quote someone else and was talking about a different subject. LOL

You didn't get his joke. Its ok.

 

[SportsFan581]

You didn't get his joke. Its ok.

He should axe that one and move on to other material. Not his best.

 

[mancs]

I bought a high end amp once ,sound was great , thx ultra 2 , though I lacked speakers of that caliber , it still sounded fkin great ... and was disgusted to find the menu on screen , in low Res VHS style, nuff said.

 

[ToadMan]

Isn't the PS4 Pros UI 4K?

And we are talking about a difference between 1080P and 4K not 1800P and 4K.

Also many people loved Demon Souls and said the game looked next gen. But according to Digital Foundry it was running at 1440P. Even with that Bo_Hazem could only find one jagged line in the image while the rest of it was clean.

What im trying to say is that even though the resolution might be lower it's the final product that matters. It's why many find technologies like DLSS and Insomniacs TI so fascinating.

There's a difference in usage between the text used for menus and the res used for a full screen game image ...

Readability is important and that is aided by higher res on higher res displays.

 

[Hashi]

Nothing is changed. The XSX GPU still has more compute capability.

Compute capability is not everything (more cores = more system load and complexity to manage tasks; we need balance between complexity and raw power).
If GPU recive data earlier then it can start compute earlier.

 

[Dibils2k]

There's a difference in usage between the text used for menus and the res used for a full screen game image ...

Readability is important and that is aided by higher res on higher res displays.

so 4k is important for games too... since you spend alot more time reading text on game UI lol

again, 4k is better for both, the fact anyone argues against that (whichever way) is pure bias and fanboy BS

 

[ToadMan]

so 4k is important for games too... since you spend alot more time reading text on game UI lol

again, 4k is better for both, the fact anyone argues against that (whichever way) is pure bias and fanboy BS

Sure - depends on the game.

Perhaps you haven't noticed but game UIs and the underlying 3D render don't have to be the same res ...

The fact remains, all consumer display tech uses high res for menus and controls and allows lower quality rendering for full screen images.

 

[SportsFan581]

It was a FUD that's been created by fanatics very close to Microsoft, Phil Spencer, and other execs. It was a reflection of what it seems XSX's reality, and now it's backfiring as you can't lie for too long.

So the new FUD is that Arden is RDNA1 on the same process node as the 5700XT. If that's the case, MS deserves a prize in engineering. Getting a wider GPU running at higher clocks + a CPU and at less watts. That's something.

 

[mancs]

The only fanboy bs I see , is when I see someone, simply put.... Without getting technical...

DEFENDING 1080p on NEXT GEN.
I wouldn't, if I was buying NEXT GEN Xbox , I'd be like,wtf ...tbth

 

[Mr Moose]

hate to break it to you but you are not really enjoying 4k gaming on a PS4 Pro... its 1440p majority of the time

What if they are playing 4K games and enjoying them?

 

[Stooky]

If the resolution gain, keeps giving details ,no matter how small , it is never a waste , fk me..... I give up .... 444 is a colour gradient , it has fk all to do with resolution , stop trying to argue against intelligence....

Cinema analogue Is equal to 16k digital

4:4:4 is not a color gradient, its chroma subsampling. That's all i need to know that you have NO clue what your talking about
"Cinema analogue Is equal to 16k digital' Wtf are you talking about!? 16k is what some people believe it takes to digitally resolve a 70mm film frame. Some people think it can be done with 8k. Some people think 35m is equivalent to 5k-4k. More resolution dosen't give extra details that don't exist. If i create art completed at 4k, upresing it to 8k is not going to introduce any new details. Nobody is making any content for 8k. 8k for now is a waste. Resolution vs screen size at certain point becomes null.

 

[mancs]

444 is not a color gradient. it a pixel structure

4:4:4 is not a color gradient, its chroma subsampling. That's all i need to know that you have NO clue what your talking about
"Cinema analogue Is equal to 16k digital' Wtf are you talking about!? 16k is what some people believe it takes to digitally resolve a 70mm film frame. Some people think it can be done with 8k. Some people think 35m is equivalent to 5k-4k. More resolution dosen't give extra details that don't exist. If i create art completed at 4k, upresing it to 8k is not going to introduce any new details. Nobody is making any content for 8k. 8k for now is a waste. Resolution vs screen size at certain point becomes null.
[/QUOTE]
I thought chroma was colour?? Yeah I haven't a clue , 8 k is a waste ?? For the time being?? (Devices already like pcs can use and produce it) gtfo retard.. You haven't a clue idiot ... Nice try

 

[mancs]

No it never becomes null , less you cannot observe the micro details , I assure you , you move closer to an 8 k TV that's small , with 8k content , you can see more detail , fktard , irrelevant of screen size , the seating distance is also a compliance , gtfo

 

[mancs]

Some more salt on ya fries fucktard??
The darkness of the screen , i.e the grey scale , also effects the chroma and colour rep , obviously , its all fkin connected , gains in one production , helps another.

you're just trying to make me look like a cunt , trying to defend sense.

 

[Stooky]

I thought chroma was colour?? Yeah I haven't a clue , 8 k is a waste ?? For the time being?? (Devices already like pcs can use and produce it) gtfo retard.. You haven't a clue idiot ... Nice try

Actually chroma describes the intensity of color. So you thought wrong again, better luck next time!

 

[mancs]

I thought chroma was colour?? Yeah I haven't a clue , 8 k is a waste ?? For the time being?? (Devices already like pcs can use and produce it) gtfo retard.. You haven't a clue idiot ... Nice try

Actually chroma describes the intensity of color. So wrong again, better luck next time!
[/QUOTE]
Still colour related and certainly in relation to what is involved in TV tech. THOUGH FUCK ALL TO DO WITH 1080p........ Ouch.

 

[Stooky]

repost my bad

 

[mejin]

hate to break it to you but you are not really enjoying 4k gaming on a PS4 Pro... its 1440p majority of the time

I think a little of context is important cause when we talk about resolutions on Pro that's where WWS really shine.

Pro wasn't strong enough to output native 4K for the ambitions games...heck, ps5 won't be either if they continue to push above the limit.

But the quality image is top notch thanks to their tweeks on their engines. Not a single big ps4 game is 4k native as far as I know and the people didn't care cause no one would dismiss the visuals of TLoU 2 or Ghost of Tsushima.

We saw it with Demons Souls. People only started the mimimi after DF talking about 1440p.

So, if MS can't make 4K native UI (I still think they will), they should do something about it...simple 1080p is not enough.

 

[Stooky]

Still colour related and certainly in relation to what is involved in TV tech. THOUGH FUCK ALL TO DO WITH 1080p........ Ouch.

Its not the same thing, but ahhhh keep doing you buddy.

 

[mancs]

Chroma boy said 8k isn't relevant ... Lmao , go tell that to the techie heads who are using it atm all around the world , I imagine they will Craig ball throw you in a pc build waste bin, if they heard your shite.... Pmfpl.
which came first , the chroma or the colour. Nice try *slow claps*

 

[mancs]

Its not the same thing, but ahhhh keep doing you buddy.

It's integrally connected to colour , I was correct , you prick.

 

[xHunter]

i mean its hilarious how the stances changed... before the UI news sony fans were saying 4k doesnt matter and that its a waste of resources(for games too, where its arguably more important!)... now if something isnt 4k it isnt worth existing

Would be nice to see some actual quotes so we can all laugh together.

 

[mancs]

Gain in chroma is a gain in colour gradient , I never said it was the same fktard , I was just adding to the mix , totally relevant to TV tech.

 

[SirTerry-T]

Fundamentally, Microsoft's inability to have first party games at launch is the issue. When all you can show is third party cross gen titles from developers with sketchy coding (looking at you, Ubishit) then things probably aren't going to go well for you.

The one thing no one can get away from is the fundamental truth that games sell consoles. Nothing else matters. If you can't show games that fully show the power and capabilities of your console, you're dead in the water to the wider consumer base. Do any of us doubt that XsX is a very powerful console? No.

But, instead of being angry at Microsoft for letting them down like this, some (certainly not all by any means) XBox fans have decided to throw shade at those who lean more towards Ps5... despite the fact that the only reason most people are doing this is because Sony HAVE shown first party titles that show off their console's power and capabilities.

While a minority of people will just support a console whatever they see running on it, most people just want to play the best games on the best platform, and when it comes to console gaming right now, all evidence points towards the Ps5 being the best place.

It's up to Microsoft to change that perception, and for XBox fans to take it up with them if they don't, instead of acting like asshats to their fellow gamers.

That's all well and good but speaking as someone who occasionally "pops his head over the parapet" it's clear that fans of both machines (or is it the companies) are both guilty of finger pointing, name calling....and God help me for even typing this.... FUD spreading, that this thread has become an absolute shit hole to wade through when all you want to do is get some more insght on what's happening with these new consoles.
It's basically gang warfare over silicon, plastic and Corporate balance sheets and it's fucking pathetic to be honest.

 

[Epic Sax CEO]

Let's also remember that MS was the company that was so worried customers might think PS3 was more advanced than Xbox 2 they named the box 360 instead.

What I'm saying is MS know as well as anyone that the information they published at hot chips would be analysed just like Sony for Cerny's presentation. Neither company is going give technical specifics if those specifics go against the marketing message and show a disadvantage to their product.

Hotchips is a place were you go to give technical details and be honest!
There are questions that they may not answer because of AMD's NDA, but to think that they would hide and obfuscate this way is a ludicrous idea.

How can anyone insist in this ridiculous theory about "RDNA 1.5"?
AMD redesigned their GPU architecture and created RDNA from which new generations will be iterated. RDNA 1 is the first product, with more changes and additions it becomes RDNA 2. Both consoles are OFFICIALLY based on RNDA 2, it may not be exactly equal to what we are see later this month in the PC Cards but the fact that the GPUs in these consoles use base RDNA 2 doesn't change. Any difference is just due to the "Custom Silicon" business nature from where these APUs come from AMD.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

So the new FUD is that Arden is RDNA1 on the same process node as the 5700XT. If that's the case, MS deserves a prize in engineering. Getting a wider GPU running at higher clocks + a CPU and at less watts. That's something.

All will be clear in a few days/2 weeks.

 

[mancs]

Guy makes things up to appease his chroma obsession....

 

[MasterCornholio]

more 1440p rather than 4k

look i dont care, i am just pointing out the obvious hypocrisy.

i hate the fact Series X UI isnt 4k, but i also hate when games are 1440p over 1800p/4k

Actually what matters the most is the final image that you get. If a game is rendered at 1440P and uses a reconstruction technique to reach an image quality that's almost as good as 4K or maybe even the same or better that's not a bad thing. Because the developers can use the left over lower to push visuals even further and maybe even framerate.

I do agree that a native 1080P image blown up to 4K does look bad.

 

[Dave_at_Home]

The console with an inferior GPU, a slower CPU, lower memory bandwidth and is larger is now better thought out and developed

Looking at the power supply and the fact the PS5 has to downclock at a certain power threshold, a point a lot of people are conveniently forgetting, I'd be pretty surprised if the XSX isn't also cooler and quieter on top.

Where are you getting the PS5 has to downclock?

 

[Zoro7]

hate to break it to you but you are not really enjoying 4k gaming on a PS4 Pro... its 1440p majority of the time

You only ever seem to notice the Sony fanboys and never the Xbox fanboys. Both sides do it constantly. Xbox fans were laughing at dynamic 4K games on PS5 and now the UI on series X isn't even dynamic 4K. So it's hilarious in my opinion.

 

[SportsFan581]

All will be clear in a few days/2 weeks.

Agreed. LOL

AMD is promising a 50% performance per watt improvement in material provided to the press so far. MS has added almost exactly 50% more transistors to the 5700XT with lower power usage. So it looks like they got the efficiency boost as promised. If they've done that on 7nm duv, someone give them an award, they did it better than AMD.

 

[FunkMiller]

That's all well and good but speaking as someone who occasionally "pops his head over the parapet" it's clear that fans of both machines (or is it the companies) are both guilty of finger pointing, name calling....and God help me for even typing this.... FUD spreading, that this thread has become an absolute shit hole to wade through when all you want to do is get some more insght on what's happening with these new consoles.
It's basically gang warfare over silicon, plastic and Corporate balance sheets and it's fucking pathetic to be honest.

Console warriors do indeed exist on both sides, but shouldn't be confused with people who make legitimate comparisons between the games footage that both companies have released, and draw conclusions based on them.

 

[Hashi]

444 is not a color gradient. it a pixel structure

4:4:4 is not a color gradient, its chroma subsampling. That's all i need to know that you have NO clue what your talking about
"Cinema analogue Is equal to 16k digital' Wtf are you talking about!? 16k is what some people believe it takes to digitally resolve a 70mm film frame. Some people think it can be done with 8k. Some people think 35m is equivalent to 5k-4k. More resolution dosen't give extra details that don't exist. If i create art completed at 4k, upresing it to 8k is not going to introduce any new details. Nobody is making any content for 8k. 8k for now is a waste. Resolution vs screen size at certain point becomes null.

I thought chroma was colour?? Yeah I haven't a clue , 8 k is a waste ?? For the time being?? (Devices already like pcs can use and produce it) gtfo retard.. You haven't a clue idiot ... Nice try

444 is lossless color coding, the other modes are for saving the amount of data to represent the colors [resolution].

Its not pixel structure.

 

[mancs]

Whatever is said , when my nephew and his mate seen my 4k TV with the pro years back , they were blown away.
We've moved on now though ....

 

[mancs]

444 is lossless color coding, the other modes are for saving the amount of data to represent the colors [resolution].

Colour gradient , it's all to do with colour on a TV trying to reproduce it.. correct??

Yeah thought so.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Where are you getting the PS5 has to downclock?

I think Cerny said there's enough both to run both at max clocks. I believe he said the variation in clockspeed is dependent on the workload. Plus from what I've read here it appears the PS5 can change it's clocks extremely quickly so it might not even be noticeable to the player.

 

[Dibils2k]

Actually what matters the most is the final image that you get. If a game is rendered at 1440P and uses a reconstruction technique to reach an image quality that's almost as good as 4K or maybe even the same or better that's not a bad thing. Because the developers can use the left over lower to push visuals even further and maybe even framerate.

I do agree that a native 1080P image blown up to 4K does look bad.

while true, reconstruction can be great like in horizon zero dawn but not many game do that on consoles, DLSS nowadays looks superb but again will we see something like that on console?

to me 1440p native is not good enough either, 1440p reconstructed to 4k can be good enough depending on how it is done

if Dark Souls is native 1440p, sure on youtube it wont really matter, but when i am playing it, believe me i will notice the softness if is just native 1440p

 

[Thirty7ven]

Microsoft better at AMD than AMD.

 

[MasterCornholio]

while true, reconstruction can be great like in horizon zero dawn but not many game do that on consoles, DLSS nowadays looks superb but again will we see something like that on console?

to me 1440p native is not good enough either, 1440p reconstructed to 4k can be good enough depending on how it is done

if Dark Souls is native 1440p, sure on youtube it wont really matter, but when i am playing it, believe me i will notice the softness if is just native 1440p

Demon Souls is at 1440P yet it doesn't look like it to me. Whatever reconstruction they are doing it's working pretty well for the game.

Credit to Bo_Hazem for the capture.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Very interesting video for X900H specifically and next gen consoles in general:





Not sure if Xbox Series X could do 4K@120Hz with Dolby Vision, VRR as it's already 40Gbps, not full 48Gbps.

 

[Dibils2k]

You only ever seem to notice the Sony fanboys and never the Xbox fanboys. Both sides do it constantly. Xbox fans were laughing at dynamic 4K games on PS5 and now the UI on series X isn't even dynamic 4K. So it's hilarious in my opinion.

this might be because i usually look in here for next gen stuff and lets be honest its mostly sony people posting here... things from xbox are usually tweets and stuff and those arent forum posts

 

[Dibils2k]

Demon Souls is at 1440P yet it doesn't look like it to me. Whatever reconstruction they are doing it's working pretty well for the game.

but you cant know that until you have it on your TV natively, no matter how good something looks on youtube, if they looked like that when i am playing i would be disappointed since there is clear compression. but while i am watching i can excuse things knowing its not real quality

 

[dead monkey uk]

hate to break it to you but you are not really enjoying 4k gaming on a PS4 Pro... its 1440p majority of the time

You realize you will see every game in 4K as your output right?

 

[Hashi]

Colour gradient , it's all to do with colour on a TV trying to reproduce it.. correct??

Yeah thought so.

Its use widely in camera video recording to save space on disk (memory). Only top Hi-end Holywood camera use 444. in computer graphics we have a different situation because here we have multi render targets and we do not have such limits, but have bandwidth (and other) limits.

 

[MasterCornholio]

but you cant know that until you have it on your TV natively, no matter how good something looks on youtube, if they looked like that when i am playing i would be disappointed since there is clear compression. but while i am watching i can excuse things knowing its not real quality

Well according to you it will look even better on my monitor. So if a youtube video looks good then the game on my monitor will look even better. Than there's those screenshots captured from a PS5 that I've seen on my screen.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Agreed. LOL

AMD is promising a 50% performance per watt improvement in material provided to the press so far. MS has added almost exactly 50% more transistors to the 5700XT with lower power usage. So it looks like they got the efficiency boost as promised. If they've done that on 7nm duv, someone give them an award, they did it better than AMD.

Well, no one said it's totally RDNA1, it's custom, both are. But everyone went with a direction, and PS5 seems inline with RDNA2 with leaks of better custom RT and Geometry Engines, along with the exclusive GPU cash scrubbers. 10 days