FranXico
Member
Of course, both Sony and MS are their costumers.
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Lort
Banned
If this is true neogaf will explode from eating too much crow.
SonGoku
Member
fixd
Very few people here claim MS will skip Navi.
Insane Metal
Member
I think at this point, anything is better than GCN... lol
CyberPanda
Banned
Aceofspades
Banned
Why would they be eating crow? Did anyone expect MS to go Intel+Nvidia?
Edit: or was that regarding MS skipping Navi? If anything the narrative was MS is getting Zen3 plus post navi arch...it was some ridiculous claims after AdoreTV news about Navi being trash lol.
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ResilientBanana
Member
Where did anyone at AMD say that?
CyberPanda
Banned
Please ignore the idiotic statements. lol
Also:
70 + 275 = 345mm^2. Good size for the APU, so expect at least a Navi 10.
ResilientBanana
Member
Did you quote the wrong post?
CyberPanda
Banned
No, I meant ignore the whole 'Navi is exclusive to Sony' nonsense. Then I added to the post.
shark sandwich
tenuously links anime, pedophile and incels
Just gonna copy my post from the thread on Navi:
50% increase in performance per watt vs Vega. So Vega 64 performance at 200W or Vega 56 performance at 140W
I’ve been guessing roughly Vega 56 performance for PlayStation 5, and this would sure seem to indicate that Vega 56-like performance is about the best we can hope for. So, on par with a reasonably high end gaming PC from 3 years ago.
The wildcard is raytracing. I’m praying that PS5 will have some dedicated raytracing hardware.
50% increase in performance per watt vs Vega. So Vega 64 performance at 200W or Vega 56 performance at 140W
I’ve been guessing roughly Vega 56 performance for PlayStation 5, and this would sure seem to indicate that Vega 56-like performance is about the best we can hope for. So, on par with a reasonably high end gaming PC from 3 years ago.
The wildcard is raytracing. I’m praying that PS5 will have some dedicated raytracing hardware.
Insane Metal
Member
Indeed. Vega 56 sounds approximate.
Munki
Member
Lort
Banned
Interesting i was about to post that you oversold that until they get to the end and you can tell the excitement they both have about these upcoming announcements.
Im guessing potentially AMD surface devices, and very likely cloud compute and custom RT for the next xbox.
TeamGhobad
Banned
sarcasm..
SonGoku
Member
Im guessing 12 to 13TF 56-64CU plus high clocks arch. Going by AMDs 1.25x IPC improvement that would put it on par with a RTX2080, not bad. Better than we hoped for
LordOfChaos
Member
Very interesting. Confirms that Sony made substantial architectural input.
Also makes this seem very plausible if thart part was true...Raja's team was taken off Vega to work on Navi leaving him frustrated.
Sources: AMD Created Navi For Sony's PlayStation 5, Vega Suffered
Sources reveal not only that the PS5 uses Navi graphics, but nearly 2/3 of AMD's engineering resources were devoted to the task.
www.forbes.com
This part was interesting for sure lol
Insane Metal
Member
Personally I'm expecting ~11TF.
SonGoku
Member
From what i read on internet comments, Raja sabotaged Radeon.
If Sony is targeting $399 that is quite likely
That would translate to 13.75TF of Vega, so roughly Radeon VII performance tier.
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shark sandwich
tenuously links anime, pedophile and incels
12TF would put the GPU at ~190 watts if we are taking AMD’s claim of “50% better perf/watt than Vega” at face value. Seems unlikely to me.
LordOfChaos
Member
Everyone needed a fall man for Vega kinda sucking. But if the scoop about Sony-AMD Navi co-creation was right, it seems likely the rest is.
SonGoku
Member
196W actually but keep in mind Vega64 is 12.7TF
We don't know how AMD came up with that metric, it is very likely it only applies to this years lineup (40CUs) which are being clocked very high for performance
Also as 7nm matures per/watt increases.
TeamGhobad
Banned
could MS go with a chiplet design? pro's and cons?
SonGoku
Member
Pros bigger chip more power
Cons less power efficiency, latency, needs better cooling
All in all i dont think they will, they can fit 72CUs on a 350mm2 APU
TeamGhobad
Banned
but there is still a 64CU limit no?
SonGoku
Member
I dont think so
Lisa claimed RDNA is the gaming engine for the next decade, from that we can infer it was designed to scale up.
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TeamGhobad
Banned
could still be a marketing ploy. I feel like if navi was all that different they would talk about it. my gut feeling is that its GCN+.
SonGoku
Member
Nah, the frontend change 8SEs instead of 4 is too big a change, and coincidentally the previous 4SE limit was the reason behind the 64CU limit.
They will talk about it in June.
KlickKlack
Banned
.. unverified
FranXico
Member
All of this shows that AMD worked on different tech with Sony and MS. Each console is going to have its own customizations.Very interesting. Confirms that Sony made substantial architectural input.
Also makes this seem very plausible if thart part was true...Raja's team was taken off Vega to work on Navi leaving him frustrated.
Sources: AMD Created Navi For Sony's PlayStation 5, Vega Suffered
Sources reveal not only that the PS5 uses Navi graphics, but nearly 2/3 of AMD's engineering resources were devoted to the task.
This part was interesting for sure lol
Special sauce for everyone, just like Lisa promised.
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xool
Member
I really need some less vague numbers - they (AMD) talked about 50% more flops per watt and more IPC, but compared to what - their 7 nm prodcuts so far have been power hogs, not showing great benefit from the die shrink, and the other option (ie comparing to RX580) would be dissapointing on only +50% flops/W on a shrink from 14 to 7nm.
At nothing can take the IPC upgrade away - that's solid
At nothing can take the IPC upgrade away - that's solid
TeamGhobad
Banned
this is a megabomb. and you said 72CU+8C zen2 will fit on 350mm^2 ??? are u taking into account CU's shut off for yield?
SonGoku
Member
Yeah so 64CUs enabled (8 disabled)
The moment i read the 8SE leak those were my thoughts, megaton.
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Insane Metal
Member
Indeed.All of this shows that AMD worked on different tech with Sony and MS. Each console is going to have its own customizations.
Special sauce for everyone, just like Lisa promised.
I'm still betting on this:
- Highly customized CPU for Microsoft
- Highly customized GPU for Sony
xool
Member
Me too - they still talked about Compute Units - if there had been a major change we would almost certainly be looking a new names for the major functional units.
An old [wccftech] news piece claims the the new ISA is after navi
Not sure how long the usual wait is before the publish the ISA and other specs - ie here https://developer.amd.com/resources/developer-guides-manuals/
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SonGoku
Member
They dedicated a tiny slot for Navi announcement, the full reveal and arch detail will happen on June.
Your link is broken btw.
Your link is broken btw.
Please understand Vega20 is not a gaming focused chip with alot of death weight transistors, Vega wasn't designed for high clocks and is hitting diminishing returns
They compared it to Vega10
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TeamGhobad
Banned
its definitely not a new architecture from scratch.
SonGoku
Member
TeamGhobad
Proelite claims:
"If there is no CU limit, you can do ~100 CUs in a xb1x sized 360mm2 die. :-o"
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TeamGhobad
Banned
Prelite claims:
"If there is no CU limit, you can do ~100 CUs in a xb1x sized 360mm2 die. :-o"
do we practically need that many? isn't 11-12tf good enough for 4k?
SonGoku
Member
No and it won't be the case. 72CU max (64 enabled)
Sony/MS will want to use left over space for audio chip, rt hw, special sauce etc.
Just pointing out there is plenty of room on a 7nm APU to go all out without going the chiplet route.
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llien
Member
Note that VII is 331mm^2.
Head of Radeon Group having no say on a chip developed by his division is... weird.
I don't think that ever been a real problem. AMD could have easily extended the GCN ISA.
LordOfChaos
Member
That's yuge, just Stadia sent AMDs stock flying and Azure is way way bigger.
Also the other mystery thing
Roanne: *grinning ear to ear to Lisa*
Lisa: *grinning ear to ear to Roanne*
FranXico
Member
Well, that takes care of Google.
ethomaz
Banned
They said it was a hard task break that limit in GCN and they never had enough time for that in an interview.
llien
Member
Which interview.
At what time point? I found Microsoft speech boring to watch.
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llien
Member
AMD/ATI historically had good ties with Microsoft.
While nVidia was thoroughly destroying OpenGL (which it, ironically, also happened to prefer over DX) with its proprietary extensions, AMD/ATI was embracing DX.
Remember that chip called Itanium? AMD-Intel cross licensing didn't cover that, so had that become 64 bit standard, game would be over.
It was Microsoft that openly told Intel that AMD64 is fully supported and that they are not going to support 2 different 64 bit ISAs, when Athlon64 rolled out.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
He did leave not long after, apparently quite frustrated. More than having no say on the chip, the rumor is that someone else working on the PS5 semi custom chip got engineers assigned to his or her division as the PS5 contract took priority... probably a call made by Su herself.
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ethomaz
Banned
Do you want me to remember things from the past?
It was an AnandTech article with Raja about Vega... he said they could work to break that Shader Engine limit on GCN but they choose not because they didn't have enough time for that... instead they focused on Vega.
That is enough?
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