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Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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Krisprolls

Banned
I'll say it once again - go check their financial reports from the past year or two and check how it's going for them exactly, all the info is there, publicly available.




Does it? I constantly keep reminding people that it's all just a business and it's all about money, that's the sole reason those companies are into those industries, nothing else matters, if people cannot, or better yet - purposely don't want to accept that simple fact just because it doesn't fit the narrative of some imaginary race where someone has to "win", whatever that even means, then sorry but I cannot take such people seriously, that's not how a grown, mature adults act, rather the so-called "manchilds", which as the name says, are kids minds trapped within adults bodies.

Like really, you have a company that's (finally) figured out how to make the most out of the industry, and on the other hand you have guys in the internet going like "no no no, it doesn't matter, it's all marketing PR spin, the console market is the only relevant market, fuck those 3BLN people, they're not "real" gamers, and MS are losing it badly!", like really, what's in it for you? I could spam the same type of bullshit, like, I don't know, let's say "Sony doesn't know how to make a good MP game, they tried so hard during PS3 gen to establish any MP-focused franchise on the market and failed so fucking hard, all their MP IPs are long time dead, they just don't know how to make a good game without scripts and cut-scenes", but the reality is, they just figured out what works the BEST, for them, which is the TPP cinematic, narrative driven games, whether someone likes them or not, Sony could be pumping up Socoms, Warhawks, Killzones, Resistances, MAGs etc. with no issue, but that's just not what brings the most money for their business, it's as simple as that, and no once can blame them for doing so. People on the internet need to realize that they are the just end consumers with no voice, no decision making, no nothing, and the games/franchises are not "their" but belong to the companies that make them, and can do with them whatever they want, we are seeing many outrages about games not going into direction the people wished for, Diablo mobile being one example, TLoUS2 being another recent one, and again, does that how grown, mature adults act? I don't think so.

You should calm down a bit... MS isn't successful in the video game industry in the way you think they are. First, they tried to compete with Sony for years and basically they failed : in terms of revenue, Xbox wasn't making nearly enough money for MS to be considered as a relevant business compared to their big cash cows Azure and Office. In terms of brand recognition, Xbox is still a dwarf compared to Playstation. Nobody cares about Xbox outside of the US, they're irrelevant. And competing with Sony with studios in the console market doesn't make sense anymore, Sony has far too many AAA studios right now. They're way too far ahead, it's dead.

So MS had 2 options : giving up altogether on gaming OR trying a new strategy. They chose the latter, but multiple articles showed they were pretty close to give up before they went the Gamepass way. Gaming as a business makes no sense for MS unless they can rack a huge number of consumers and make big money. Shareholders want a big return on this business because MS already makes a huge return on their other businesses like Azure or Office.

Will this new model work ? Nobody knows, because we're in phase 1, where everything is given for free to get as much subscribers as possible, while losing money obviously. Unless you think hundreds of games are worth less than a few dollars a month.

There's an illusion going on here that MS will come and put multiple high quality AAA games day 1 exclusively on gamepass, and that won't happen, simply because it would be too expensive to do so. That's why gamepass will be a cheaper option with great value for people who don't have the money to buy the higher budget $70 games. In that way, I agree with them, they don't compete with Sony, they're more of a publisher selling subscriptions right now. But when / if AAA games come to Gamepass, they will be few and far between and they'll be available elsewhere too, because otherwise it's impossible to make up for the money their studios cost.

And the Gamepass you see here, that's not what you'll get later anyway, either quality will go down, or price will go up, that's what every subscription based provider did, and it won't be different here. It has to make money for them at some point, and unless you think daily costs of dozens of studios like Bethesda are zero, they definitely don't make money right now.

Ultimately, will this model work ? It's possible, as a cheaper option for casual or money constrained gamers, but not as a replacement for higher budget games like Sony does. As I already said multiple times, the problem with this is we're TIME constrained in this hobby, more than MONEY constrained. It's mostly cheap to buy the 4 or 5 best games every year, and play them when you want, so why would you settle with playing inferior or cheaper games instead ? When I want to play the latest blockbuster, I don't want to play anything else instead. And I can, because it doesn't cost too much. I want to play them when I want too, not watching every day it isn't removed from my subscription. That's why I don't believe that much in subscription models in gaming.

My personal take is I doubt it'll work. The problem is people like us want the best games, the blockbusters. They don't really care about paying less and getting tons of "other" games. It's not about quantity, because we lack time for that, it's about quality. People have thousands of great games basically free on their PC, and Sony AAA games still sells more and more million copies, it tells you all you need to know about the way games are bought. If money and quantity were what mattered in video games, we'd already see it now, and we see the opposite, highly priced great games selling more and more million copies.

And mobile users just want simple cheap Angry Birds like games, which Gamepass doesn't give you either. So they're trying to sell the intermediate car right here, and today, only cheapest cars OR premium cars are still selling. Intermediate cars makers died. Xbox Gamepass is between a rock and a hard place.

And buying Bethesda for $7.5 billion is like going all in on Gamepass for MS. The problem with that is if subscription numbers don't take off, studios will soon cost too much in daily costs. What's the chance a big exec looks at all that in a few years and says : "we"re just not making enough money with all that" ? That's pretty high, I'd say. At that point, it's pretty certain they'd give up on gaming. MS has a long history of abandoning branches and products in the blink of an eye, like Google does too. Look no further than Mixer recently, after paying huge sums to Ninja they just pulled the plug.

Buying Bethesda is a huge bet and I don't see how they can make it work. Bethesda was a bit on the down slope, another Elder Scrolls won't come before 5 years or more... How will they pay for the studio costs AND make Gamepass profitable ? Selling games outside Gamepass will basically be mandatory, unless you're ok with bleeding money... But if you sell the best games you have (which already are few and far between) to the competition, which incentive do I have to subscribe ?

The jury's out, but I don't see it working on the long run. Their best bet was attacking Sony with studios and AAA games in the Xbox 360 era, beating them in their own game when they were down. Nowadays ? I don't see any way for MS, the video game market is mature and Sony secured it. They have too many studios, too many blockbusters... Look at the Game Awards, now there are basically a majority of Sony games, they're getting more and more GotY awards, as 3rd party devs like Ubi or EA are either weakening or not releasing anything anymore like Valve or Rockstar. The gap between Sony studios games and competition is increasing every year, not shrinking... Core gamers won't say : "okay, but no, I won't play the best games, I'll subscribe to Gamepass instead" I just don't see it.
 
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I'll say it once again - go check their financial reports from the past year or two and check how it's going for them exactly, all the info is there, publicly available.




Does it? I constantly keep reminding people that it's all just a business and it's all about money, that's the sole reason those companies are into those industries, nothing else matters, if people cannot, or better yet - purposely don't want to accept that simple fact just because it doesn't fit the narrative of some imaginary race where someone has to "win", whatever that even means, then sorry but I cannot take such people seriously, that's not how a grown, mature adults act, rather the so-called "manchilds", which as the name says, are kids minds trapped within adults bodies.

Like really, you have a company that's (finally) figured out how to make the most out of the industry, and on the other hand you have guys in the internet going like "no no no, it doesn't matter, it's all marketing PR spin, the console market is the only relevant market, fuck those 3BLN people, they're not "real" gamers, and MS are losing it badly!", like really, what's in it for you? I could spam the same type of bullshit, like, I don't know, let's say "Sony doesn't know how to make a good MP game, they tried so hard during PS3 gen to establish any MP-focused franchise on the market and failed so fucking hard, all their MP IPs are long time dead, they just don't know how to make a good game without scripts and cut-scenes", but the reality is, they just figured out what works the BEST, for them, which is the TPP cinematic, narrative driven games, whether someone likes them or not, Sony could be pumping up Socoms, Warhawks, Killzones, Resistances, MAGs etc. with no issue, but that's just not what brings the most money for their business, it's as simple as that, and no once can blame them for doing so. People on the internet need to realize that they are the just end consumers with no voice, no decision making, no nothing, and the games/franchises are not "their" but belong to the companies that make them, and can do with them whatever they want, we are seeing many outrages about games not going into direction the people wished for, Diablo mobile being one example, TLoUS2 being another recent one, and again, does that how grown, mature adults act? I don't think so.
[/QUOTE]

It's a business indeed, but I don't particularly think we come to a gaming forum to discuss these topics from a business standpoint, nor do I hold any MS stock, so what benefit is it to me how they leverage Xbox to improve sales of Azure servers? Are you a gamer at all?
If I wanted to discuss business I'd be going to CNBC and keep track of Tesla and Amazon share prices.

You're celebrating the 3Bln narrative like it's an actual thing. Wtf... isn't Minecraft in about as many platforms as Skyrim is at this point (everywhere)? Microsoft has console AND PC presence since forever. Anyone that wants their games has ample opportunity to get them already. That's it, nothing else. It's not the phone market that will all of a sudden shift and get people that 99% play free games with (whale supported) micro-transactions that's going to suddenly change it. Hell, MS can't even seem to be allowed into the Apple ecosystem to sell Xcloud.

Get this around your head, MS sees Xbox as a trojan horse to try and get more people to buy into their Azure cloud and all that comes with it. Xbox and gamers are not this company's end goal and their strategy is B2B. So to me, it makes just as much sense to have so called gamers waving the MS flag as it would for them to wave SAP, Cisco or ServiceNow :messenger_grinning_squinting:
 

ZywyPL

Banned
It's a business indeed, but I don't particularly think we come to a gaming forum to discuss these topics from a business standpoint, nor do I hold any MS stock, so what benefit is it to me how they leverage Xbox to improve sales of Azure servers? Are you a gamer at all?

Like I said, you and me are the end consumers here, we're on the other spectrum of this industry, so we both obviously have a way different view point that the companies and their executives on the subject, but still - I see absolutely no reason to be emotionally connected to dead objects or consumables, Like really, if I eat a hamburger, and I don't like it, I just go to a different restaurant next time, but I don't start some silly restaurant wars, wishing the one with the said bad burger to go bankrupt, and so on, it just doesn't make any sense at all, I'd actually feel embarrassed if I'd do so, so why on earth should I act like that when it comes to video games?


So to me, it makes just as much sense to have so called gamers waving the MS flag as it would for them to wave SAP, Cisco or ServiceNow :messenger_grinning_squinting:

To you, but you're not the voice of 8BLN people of this planet. Somehow streaming worked out for movie and music industry, which in the exact same fashion were highly doubted at the begining, people said they're DOA, that they don't have any sense, who will want to pay for this this, "muh physical!" and what's not, and now look where all the streaming services are, growing year after year. People will decide whether GP is the way they want to access games or not whether you like it or not, and you seem to completely ignore/deny the fact that subscribing to GP doesn't cut people off from other ways of accessing/experiencing the games, at all, people who watch Netflix also go to the cinemas and watch TV you know, and the same way you can have GP and still buy games in physical/digital form. But yet, again, that's exactly the childish attitude I'm talking about, needing to put a "VS" in between two things, which completely doesn't work when a company decides to diversify their strategy and has multiple offerings. Because in reality, people can be subscribed to GP, buy PC games on Steam, play F2P mobile games, and have a PS5, all at the same time, and who's "winning" in that scenario? Everyone, because liek I said, it's a business, it's all about the money, and the bigger chunk of the pie you can get for yourself the better, and that's exactly what MS is aiming for.
 
It's a good thing MS moved away from TV TV TV and started a game service with multiple ways to access and play games. Respecting previously purchased games from older generations is also a fantastic move. It really is about the games. You are right.

But that's the problem. If all they have is good back compat, why buy an Xbox S|X now? It's honestly the worst console launch games wise, maybe ever. If it's all about the games, why didn't they have more than Halo planned for launch? And why didn't they do a better job of managing its development.

It's all about the subscriptions. Games be damned.
 
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kyliethicc

Member
DVOSpb6.jpg
 

kyliethicc

Member
You should calm down a bit... MS isn't successful in the video game industry in the way you think they are. First, they tried to compete with Sony for years and basically they failed : in terms of revenue, Xbox wasn't making nearly enough money for MS to be considered as a relevant business compared to their big cash cows Azure and Office. In terms of brand recognition, Xbox is still a dwarf compared to Playstation. Nobody cares about Xbox outside of the US, they're irrelevant. And competing with Sony with studios in the console market doesn't make sense anymore, Sony has far too many AAA studios right now. They're way too far ahead, it's dead.

So MS had 2 options : giving up altogether on gaming OR trying a new strategy. They chose the latter, but multiple articles showed they were pretty close to give up before they went the Gamepass way. Gaming as a business makes no sense for MS unless they can rack a huge number of consumers and make big money. Shareholders want a big return on this business because MS already makes a huge return on their other businesses like Azure or Office.

Will this new model work ? Nobody knows, because we're in phase 1, where everything is given for free to get as much subscribers as possible, while losing money obviously. Unless you think hundreds of games are worth less than a few dollars a month.

There's an illusion going on here that MS will come and put multiple high quality AAA games day 1 exclusively on gamepass, and that won't happen, simply because it would be too expensive to do so. That's why gamepass will be a cheaper option with great value for people who don't have the money to buy the higher budget $70 games. In that way, I agree with them, they don't compete with Sony, they're more of a publisher selling subscriptions right now. But when / if AAA games come to Gamepass, they will be few and far between and they'll be available elsewhere too, because otherwise it's impossible to make up for the money their studios cost.

And the Gamepass you see here, that's not what you'll get later anyway, either quality will go down, or price will go up, that's what every subscription based provider did, and it won't be different here. It has to make money for them at some point, and unless you think daily costs of dozens of studios like Bethesda are zero, they definitely don't make money right now.

Ultimately, will this model work ? It's possible, as a cheaper option for casual or money constrained gamers, but not as a replacement for higher budget games like Sony does. As I already said multiple times, the problem with this is we're TIME constrained in this hobby, more than MONEY constrained. It's mostly cheap to buy the 4 or 5 best games every year, and play them when you want, so why would you settle with playing inferior or cheaper games instead ? When I want to play the latest blockbuster, I don't want to play anything else instead. And I can, because it doesn't cost too much. I want to play them when I want too, not watching every day it isn't removed from my subscription. That's why I don't believe that much in subscription models in gaming.

My personal take is I doubt it'll work. The problem is people like us want the best games, the blockbusters. They don't really care about paying less and getting tons of "other" games. It's not about quantity, because we lack time for that, it's about quality. People have thousands of great games basically free on their PC, and Sony AAA games still sells more and more million copies, it tells you all you need to know about they way games are bought. If money and quantity were what mattered in video games, we'd already see it now, and we see the opposite, highly priced great games selling more and more million copies.

And mobile users just want simple cheap Angry Birds like games, which Gamepass doesn't give you either. So they're trying to sell the intermediate car right here, and today, only cheapest cars OR premium cars are still selling. Intermediate cars makers died. Xbox Gamepass is between a rock and a hard place.

And buying Bethesda for $7.5 billion is like going all in on Gamepass for MS. The problem with that is if subscription numbers don't take off, studios will soon cost too much in daily costs. What's the chance a big exec looks at all that in a few years and says : "we"re just not making enough money with all that" ? That's pretty high, I'd say. At that point, it's pretty certain they'd give up on gaming. MS has a long history of abandoning branches and products in the blink of an eye, like Google do too. Look no further than Mixer recently, after paying huge sums to Ninja they just pulled the plug.

Buying Bethesda is a huge bet and I don't see how they can make it work. Bethesda was a bit on the down slope, another Elder Scrolls won't come before 5 years or more... How will they pay for the studio costs AND make Gamepass profitable ? Selling games outside Gamepass will basically be mandatory, unless you're ok with bleeding money... But if you sell the best games you have (which already are few and far between) to the competition, which incentive do I have to subscribe ?

The jury's out, but I don't see it working on the long run. Their best bet was attacking Sony with studios and AAA games in the Xbox 360 era, beating them in their own game when they were down. Nowadays ? I don't see any way for MS, the video game market is mature and Sony secured it. They have too many studios, too many blockbusters... Look at the Game Awards, now there are basically a majority of Sony games, they're getting more and more GotY awards, as 3rd party devs like Ubi or EA are either weakening or not releasing anything anymore like Valve or Rockstar. The gap between Sony studios games and competition is increasing every year, not shrinking... Core gamers won't say : "okay, but no, I won't play the best games, I'll subscribe to Gamepass instead" I just don't see it.
agreed 100%
 
T

Three Jackdaws

Unconfirmed Member
This could be interesting, maybe not as interesting as Game Awards but still. 🤔
Hopefully we learn some interesting things, it's funny though, all this talk of next-generation gaming especially from Microsoft yet the only thing close to next-generation gaming is coming from Sony/Playstation.

Microsoft really need to drop something big over the next month or two, like Hellblade 2 gameplay.
 
Like I said, you and me are the end consumers here, we're on the other spectrum of this industry, so we both obviously have a way different view point that the companies and their executives on the subject, but still - I see absolutely no reason to be emotionally connected to dead objects or consumables, Like really, if I eat a hamburger, and I don't like it, I just go to a different restaurant next time, but I don't start some silly restaurant wars, wishing the one with the said bad burger to go bankrupt, and so on, it just doesn't make any sense at all, I'd actually feel embarrassed if I'd do so, so why on earth should I act like that when it comes to video games?




To you, but you're not the voice of 8BLN people of this planet. Somehow streaming worked out for movie and music industry, which in the exact same fashion were highly doubted at the begining, people said they're DOA, that they don't have any sense, who will want to pay for this this, "muh physical!" and what's not, and now look where all the streaming services are, growing year after year. People will decide whether GP is the way they want to access games or not whether you like it or not, and you seem to completely ignore/deny the fact that subscribing to GP doesn't cut people off from other ways of accessing/experiencing the games, at all, people who watch Netflix also go to the cinemas and watch TV you know, and the same way you can have GP and still buy games in physical/digital form. But yet, again, that's exactly the childish attitude I'm talking about, needing to put a "VS" in between two things, which completely doesn't work when a company decides to diversify their strategy and has multiple offerings. Because in reality, people can be subscribed to GP, buy PC games on Steam, play F2P mobile games, and have a PS5, all at the same time, and who's "winning" in that scenario? Everyone, because liek I said, it's a business, it's all about the money, and the bigger chunk of the pie you can get for yourself the better, and that's exactly what MS is aiming for.

Are you seriously comparing streaming mosic / video (passive entertainment) with streaming games (active entertainment) where input lag is a thing? Where amount of data being sent back and forth is an order of magnitude higher?
My main point is this 3 Bln narrative is the purest of bullshit PR by the usual suspects. You talk about diversifying strategy, etc, again that's all fine and well, but what does it have to do with gaming? How does that give us great games to play? How does it advance this medium? I don't care about how much it fills the pockets of MS shareholders, so can we stop the discussion from that prism?

So yeah, what's in it for me as a gamer?
 

LiquidRex

Member
Hopefully we learn some interesting things, it's funny though, all this talk of next-generation gaming especially from Microsoft yet the only thing close to next-generation gaming is coming from Sony/Playstation.

Microsoft really need to drop something big over the next month or two, like Hellblade 2 gameplay.
Yes.... However if they drop a Hellblade 2 Trailer that's a downgrade from 2019, Microsoft will never hear the end of it... Its time they stepped up with their power claim, even if the game is a few years away. 🤔
 

Jemm

Member
My main point is this 3 Bln narrative is the purest of bullshit PR by the usual suspects. You talk about diversifying strategy, etc, again that's all fine and well, but what does it have to do with gaming? How does that give us great games to play? How does it advance this medium? I don't care about how much it fills the pockets of MS shareholders, so can we stop the discussion from that prism?

So yeah, what's in it for me as a gamer?
I'm wondering the same about measuring the amount of consoles being sold. Does it matter to us gamers, if a console sells 50M or 100M?
 

icerock

Member
if he wants those 3 billion gamers, he should be making mobile games which Microsoft does not make.

He is clearly clueless like most MS execs. The console market is roughly 100-150 million users. Thats been true since the PS1 days. Nintendo brings in a bunch of new people every now and then but they arent gamers and do not buy games.

Rachel playing candy crush on her iphone while slacking off at work
is not someone who gives a shit if MS bought Bethesda or not. This is delusional at best.

tenor.gif
 
Don't forget about us in he UK, Xbox is very popular here, but the rest of Europe like you said seems pretty irrelevant

Indeed. Here at Finland xbox is tiny. I still havent seen xbox one other than on shops, because nobody I know owns/uses them. (one friend owns the digital edition but he tested it once and said it is shit).

At stores PS4 games filled usually 70-90% of shelf space, rest divided by xbox/switch.

PS4 sells used around 150-200€, pro sells around 200-300€

one x maybe sells used around 100-170€ most of the time, and you are lucky if you can sell one s.

I or any of my friends cant remember ever seeing xbox ads on tv.

On holidays ps4 used to be sold out on some places, ps4 sold out badly on launch(2-3 months until it were available)

PS5 is sold out until spring, some stores had a lottery to get a chance to buy one, those got like 60000 - 100 000 participants on 5.5million citizens country.

It took +2 weeks to sell out xsex and xses is still available on some stores.

I believe that if someone would ask from 1000 random people on the street that what is playstation and what is xbox, majority would know playstation but big part would not know xbox or it would be really vague.

So it is like giant vs ant. Always weird to read americans talking about xbox like it is relevant and competitive thing, when here it is what it is.

Even nintendo Switch could not sell out here on launch or after it.

playstation >>> nintendo >>>>>>>>>>>> xbox
 

Krisprolls

Banned

Jesus Christ :messenger_tears_of_joy:

For what it's worth, the 2 hour leak of the PS4 version I watched yesterday on reddit running on PS5 seemed to have a pretty good framerate. And unlike PC version Gerstmann played, it wasn't a slideshow while driving (NB : Gerstmann played using a 2080 Ti).

It's probably due to lower graphical settings though, since it's the PS4 version running on PS5 right now.

And both versions have tons of bugs and clipping.
 
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IntentionalPun

Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
Isn't it known that pre-launch there's DRM that simply lowers the performance and that will be gone after launch?
Regardless of that on PC game ready drivers usually shift performance quite a bit. 5-15% or more at times.

Nothing wrong with doing early benchmarks but anyone doing one should update their articles once the game is out.
 
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HoofHearted

Member
When people start realising AAA games won’t be producible under this service it will fall flat on its face. The question is how much damage it would do to the gaming market in that time.

That’s part of the equation here - massive AAA releases are not a sustainable long term business model. Repeatable subscriptions to a gaming service are much more beneficial to a company’s bottom line and provides stability for when one of those AAA games potentially flop.
 

IntentionalPun

Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
When people start realising AAA games won’t be producible under this service it will fall flat on its face. The question is how much damage it would do to the gaming market in that time.

Tell that to UbiSoft and EA then I guess?

There's no evidence that AAA games aren't sustainable being released on a subscription service day one. That's just a statement random gamers make daily about Gamepass with nothing to back it up.
 

ethomaz

Banned
Is this what MS was waiting for? A low level instruction set language?

I don't recall seeing this on other GPU's, at least not the same extent? I'm not sure how to process this document lol.
That is the ISA level doc... all GPUs have it.
MS already has this doc for a lot of time I believe... that is just the public release.
 
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Think I read somewhere that Cyberpunk has TWO patches prior to launch(pre-launch patch and Day 1).

I don’t doubt its a solid game, but I'm more than willing to wait for all the stuff to be ironed out. I'll wait for the next-gen upgrade patch to come.

Looking forward to TGA; hopefully, we see some solid next-gen titles revealed, get a date for Ratchet or something and aren't just peppered with indies all evening long.

My wife has been playing DA: Inquisition again and I'm hopeful the next game will be solid. On that note, has anyone tried it on PS5? Any improvements? I know it was pretty rough on PS4.
 

Krisprolls

Banned
Tell that to UbiSoft and EA then I guess?

There's no evidence that AAA games aren't sustainable being released on a subscription service day one. That's just a statement random gamers make daily about Gamepass with nothing to back it up.

Fifa is a microtransaction based game. Yes, those ones could go on a subscription model day 1, the others not so much, at least not without being sold elsewhere too. It's simple maths. A high budget blockbuster can cost $100 million+. If your sub is $5 per month, you need one month of 20 million subscribers for this game only, just to break even on 1 single game. But your sub has to pay for every game (hundreds of them) on the sub AND make a good profit. You won't make it with multiple AAA games. So you can't have a AAA day 1 exclusive on it, and every day one AAA on your subscription takes a big toll on your profit because of the sales you lose.

By the way, Ubi or EA games are also sold elsewhere, so you don't need to subscribe. You wouldn't see those games only available on a subscription service, the maths wouldn't add up.
 
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ZywyPL

Banned
Are you seriously comparing streaming mosic / video (passive entertainment) with streaming games (active entertainment) where input lag is a thing? Where amount of data being sent back and forth is an order of magnitude higher?
My main point is this 3 Bln narrative is the purest of bullshit PR by the usual suspects. You talk about diversifying strategy, etc, again that's all fine and well, but what does it have to do with gaming? How does that give us great games to play? How does it advance this medium? I don't care about how much it fills the pockets of MS shareholders, so can we stop the discussion from that prism?

So yeah, what's in it for me as a gamer?

Don't like it to buy it, it's that simple. But at the same time don't be mad a company that it's successful with that they're doing.

Also bare in mind that GP=/=xCloud, where sure, the data caps in US is a real barrier for that market, and the lacking communication infrastructure also won't allow the tech to spread its wings in a couple of years at least, and that's mostly a reason what xCloud is not a standalone service, but rather an extension to GP.
 

IntentionalPun

Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
Fifa is a microtransaction based game. Yes, those ones could go on a subscription model day 1, the others not so much

Never heard of EA Play Pro? Every single EA game day one is on that service, IIRC some games even come a week early.

Ubisoft+ also features all of their AAA games day one.

By the way, Ubi or EA games are also sold elsewhere, so you don't need to subscribe. You wouldn't see those games only available on a subscription service, the maths wouldn't add up.

Nobody is releasing games exclusive to sub services and nobody is suggesting anyone should.

Weird goal post move.

One of the reasons these companies can afford to put games on sub services is because they are sold outside the sub services.

Ubisoft and EA are doing it for every single game they release.
 

Krisprolls

Banned
Never heard of EA Play Pro? Every single EA game day one is on that service, IIRC some games even come a week early.

Ubisoft+ also features all of their AAA games day one.



Nobody is releasing games exclusive to sub services and nobody is suggesting anyone should.

Weird goal post move.

One of the reasons these companies can afford to put games on sub services is because they are sold outside the sub services.

Ubisoft and EA are doing it for every single game they release.

I know all that pretty well. So we agree then, you'll never get exclusive AAA on subscription models, they'll always be sold elsewhere too, so you'll never need to subscribe to get those games.

And do you also agree with my maths that every AAA on the sub takes a huge toll on profit due to lost sales ? Making basically a $100 million+ blockbuster like Sony does not a very viable proposition on a sub, unless it comes later ?

Outside of those relying on a microtransactions model obviously.
 
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Neo Blaster

Member
🤔

Also today someone made a tweet that UE5 can't run on Xbox Series X... This is untrue, UE5 can scale down so Xbox Series X will be able to run it.

It already looked like a missed opportunity after season 1, and now that season 2 is making a wonderful fan service, it's just dumb not to make such a game.

DANK FARRIK!!!
 

IntentionalPun

Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
I know all that pretty well. So we agree then, you'll never get exclusive AAA on subscription models, they'll always be sold elsewhere too, so you'll never need to subscribe to get those games.

Nobody was ever discussing exclusive games on subscription models, as it has never been done nor proposed by any of the major players.

Nor did your statement I respond to say anything about exclusivity; why would anyone assume you were talking about a subscription model nobody is using or planning on using? You just outright stated AAA games are not possible on subscription models.

And do you also agree with my maths that every AAA on the sub takes a huge toll on profit due to lost sales ? Making basically a $100 million+ blockbuster like Sony does not a very viable proposition on a sub, unless it comes later ?

Outside of those relying on a microtransactions model obviously.

No I don't agree; I mean I'm not sure what "math" you are even doing here. The subscription model is complicated and how successful it is going to be will depend on who buys into it, how it changes their spending habits, and whether that represents someone spending less than they were before or more.

The goal is to get people to spend more money, not less... and balance those spending less money, by attracting new gamers who weren't in your ecosystem. The goal is engagement with lots of products, the people involved still buying things, whether they be full games after they leave the service or MTX/DLC. And the games still sell at full price... Microsoft is doing pretty damn well on Steam for instance. Ubisoft and EA's games still do well despite being available on their sub service as well.

It's experimental; it all might fail.. but these blanket statements that "AAA won't work" aren't backed up by much.

I'll say this: I think the model will fail if you only attract hardcore big spenders. The model will succeed if you can start getting more casual people involved. That's how they'll make it so the sub model actually represents an increase in revenue, not a decrease.
 
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oldergamer

Member
That is the ISA level doc... all GPUs have it.
MS already has this doc for a lot of time I believe... that is just the public release.
I don't recall seeing a document like this before released to the public. Are there examples for past AMD GPU's or Nvidia GPU's?
 

Krisprolls

Banned
Nobody was ever discussing exclusive games on subscription models, as it has never been done nor proposed by any of the major players.

Nor did your statement I respond to say anything about exclusivity; why would anyone assume you were talking about a subscription model nobody is using or planning on using? You just outright stated AAA games are not possible on subscription models.



No I don't agree; I mean I'm not sure what "math" you are even doing here. The subscription model is complicated and how successful it is going to be will depend on who buys into it, how it changes their spending habits, and whether that represents someone spending less than they were before or more.

The goal is to get people to spend more money, not less... and balance those spending less money, by attracting new gamers who weren't in your ecosystem. The goal is engagement with lots of products, the people involved still buying things, whether they be full games after they leave the service or MTX/DLC. And the games still sell at full price... Microsoft is doing pretty damn well on Steam for instance. Ubisoft and EA's games still do well despite being available on their sub service as well.

It's experimental; it all might fail.. but these blanket statements that "AAA won't work" aren't backed up by much.

I'll say this: I think the model will fail if you only attract hardcore big spenders. The model will succeed if you can start getting more casual people involved. That's how they'll make it so the sub model actually represents an increase in revenue, not a decrease.

I just say that a $100 million+ game (a Sony blockbuster game budget) is very hard to put on a subscription model day one or close to day one, maybe not impossible, but the maths don't add up when you think it takes a whole month of 20 million $5 subs just to break even, with so many other games and studios to pay before even being profitable. Now imagine a few games like that, that's already half of the money you make yearly from sub for those few games alone, without accounting for everything else. Maths don't look good at all.
 
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ethomaz

Banned
I don't recall seeing a document like this before released to the public. Are there examples for past AMD GPU's or Nvidia GPU's?

Here has a list (with links) of some of them:

GCN 1.1, GCN 1.3, Vega

GCN 1.3, Vega, RDNA

Every GPU Arch has a ISA doc.

Yes nVidia has it too.

PTX 5.0: https://docs.nvidia.com/pdf/ptx_isa_5.0.pdf
PTX 6.0: https://docs.nvidia.com/pdf/ptx_isa_6.0.pdf
PTX 7.0: https://docs.nvidia.com/pdf/ptx_isa_7.0.pdf (that is the Ampere one)[

Edit - Actually nVidia released a update few weeks ago (October 27, 2020), PTX 7.1: https://docs.nvidia.com/cuda/pdf/ptx_isa_7.1.pdf

There is the html public version too: https://docs.nvidia.com/cuda/parallel-thread-execution/index.html (only for the latest version).
 
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Tmack

Member
Days Gone Director implies the existence of Days Gone 2






👀



Currently playing and loving it.

Just hope they fix the bad UI.

Way too many times you are left with spammed quest menu that actually don`t tell much what happened and let you completely clueless. Once i did some errand and like 5 menus poped up that progressed 6 different story lines and... WTF?

The radio talk is all over the place, annoying and bad scripted.... i had a call saying "hey dee dont go there now we have to work out things before, i`ll give you a call when ready" just to a second later "hey dee i`m ready, go there now".... wtf!

Dee always talk about things that aren`t on the screen or nowhere near... "fuc**** sniper".... but there`s nothing on sight lol.

The ? most often leads to nothing or gets you completely confused....

The gattering resources animations is always the same (opening cars, getting meat, etc) and gets old after a while.... they could either implement a short version for mid-late game or add variation....


Still a great game, just hope they fix whats bad in it and keep the good stuff.
 

IntentionalPun

Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
I just say that a $100 million+ game is very hard to put on a subscription model day one or close to day one, maybe not impossible, but the maths don't add up when you think it takes a whole month of 20 million $5 subs just to break even, with so many other games and studios to pay before even being profitable. Now imagine a few games like that, that's already half of the money you make yearly from sub for those few games alone, without accounting for everything else. Maths don't look good at all.
Why are you using $5 subs as an example?

lol

Nobody is doing $5 subs with day one AAA releases.... EA is charging $15 / month as is Ubisoft.

Gamepass is intended to be $10 / month without the ability to play online, $15 with that ability.

So $10 a month is bare minimum what we should be doing any "math" on. And if you attract new users who aren't paying for Gold, you can also consider the other $5 new revenue. You also can attract people to your console or platform in general with a sub service who weren't there before. There are Playstation owners buying XSS right now as a cheap Gamepass machine for instance.... you aslo can make people feel like they are getting a great deal, get them "engaged" and then get them to more freely spend on stuff like MTX.

It's far too complicated of a scenario particularly for a console manufacturer who currently is in distant 3rd place to just declare the "math" that AAA games aren't feasible.

And if it's not profitable, they can.... raise the price... if they lose people, those people probably go back to buying games at full price.

But sure, I agree with you, a $5 service with day one exclusives is not possible. Good thing nobody is doing anything even close to that lol
 

IntentionalPun

Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
Currently playing and loving it.

Just hope they fix the bad UI.

Way too many times you are left with spammed quest menu that actually don`t tell much what happened and let you completely clueless. Once i did some errand and like 5 menus poped up that progressed 6 different story lines and... WTF?

The radio talk is all over the place, annoying and bad scripted.... i had a call saying "hey dee dont go there now we have to work out things before, i`ll give you a call when ready" just to a second later "hey dee i`m ready, go there now".... wtf!

Dee always talk about things that aren`t on the screen or nowhere near... "fuc**** sniper".... but there`s nothing on sight lol.

The ? most often leads to nothing or gets you completely confused....

The gattering resources animations is always the same (opening cars, getting meat, etc) and gets old after a while.... they could either implement a short version for mid-late game or add variation....


Still a great game, just hope they fix whats bad in it and keep the good stuff.

Huh.. interesting.. I don't have a problem with any of this other than maybe the gathering stuff animation. But I'm pretty sure that's a design choice meant to make it slower to do in the middle of a battle, or to make you vulnerable if you don't look around first before doing the gathering. If there was no "opening the trunk" animation for instance you'd be able to run around during a battle and snag ammo from the back of cars.
 

Sinthor

Gold Member
Anyone expecting something like the original trailer in gameplay will have a really rude awakening.

No way it's like that original trailer. It's going to look great, it will look next gen, but it's not going to look like THAT. I don't think we'll be seeing that game for another 2-3 years though so exactly how close they can get to that trailer will be the name of the game, so to speak. :)
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
Damn, that Bethesda acquisition really hit you hard out of nowhere, didn't it? You just cannot stop talking about it do you?

But they don't want to close themselves just on the home console market alone just because there are some random immature kids on the internet that want to fight some silly wars around some plastic boxes, deal with it. They can quit the console market all along if they'll see it's not worth it and focus entirely on GP, and there's nothing you'll be able to do about it. It's their company, their business, Nadella and Spencer are free to do whatever they want, whatever suits them the best, whether you like it or now, and the recent financial reports clearly shows their strategy works for them, the revenue is constantly going up despite hardware sales going down, also whether you like it or not.

This is one of the more bizarre posts I've read here. I am talking about Bethesda because it's literally what's being discussed. Satya was asked what can they do to win the console war and he literally replied with the bethesda acquisition and then went on to talk about the imaginary 3 billion figure. Perhaps you should stop trying to paint everyone you disagree with as a console warrior and maybe pay attention to what you are discussing?

“What is being done to set Xbox apart from the PS 5 to win the console war?”, Microsoft’s Head of Investor Relations, Mike Spencer, asked Nadella.

The executive continued, “But the broader vision we have is to ensure that the 3 billion gamers out there are able to play their games, anywhere they want with all the content they want and with whom they want to. And that's really what we are building our strategy around. You've seen us double our content portfolio with ZeniMax acquisition, you see us make advances in our community efforts and our subscription offers with Game Pass.

I am sorry I cannot stop talking about the actual topic of discussion. I thought I was living on planet earth and not on some bizarro world where we dont actually discuss topics of discussion.

Your last paragraph is also bizarre. It's their company ? It's their business? Well no shit sherlock. Should we not discuss what companies do because it's their business? What's the point of message boards then? Of course, they are free to do whatever they want, but we are free to mock them for their delusional aspirations. If Ouya talked about selling 100 million consoles, let alone 3 billion, we should just take them for their word because surely it's their business and they are free to do what they want?

No, this 3 billion nonsense is straight up delusional and no different than their 1 billion aspirations back in 2013. You can try and paint me as a console warrior all you want, but I liked MS going out and spending billions on AAA studios. It showed me that they gave a shit about their gaming division. That they were serious. Hell, i got banned for a month on era for saying they should go out and purchase Ubisoft and Rockstar to go in for the kill. That triggered a bunch of PS fanboys, but I meant every word. Sony was going out paying millions for timed exclusives like Modern Warfare 2, Death Loop and Ghostwire Tokyo and even supposedly tried to get timed exclusivity for Starfield which is probably what forced MS's hand. I hate that kind of moneyhatting and I would rather see them invest in their own studios or acquire new studios like MS just did.

What I dont care for is delusional aspirations that make it seem like Satya was duped into thinking zenimax and gamepass will bring in billions of gamers. It shows a complete lack of understanding of the console business and I can promise you this is a bad thing. When the CEO invests billions into something and does not see the returns, he's not going to be happy about it. Zenimax and gamepass will at best bring them a 100 million sales. That's the best case scenario. And that is not even close to the 3 billion this guy is hoping for from his massive investments into zenimax and gamepass.
 
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Krisprolls

Banned
Why are you using $5 subs as an example?
(...)
But sure, I agree with you, a $5 service with day one exclusives is not possible. Good thing nobody is doing anything even close to that lol

Because that's what I pay for my PC gamepass subscription (€4 actually, so even less, so yes they do it lol you should check the prices) and I wouldn't probably pay more than €6 or maybe €7 for it per month, it's not worth it in my opinion. You've got tons of great games for free or nearly free on PC... A lot of PC gamers wouldn't pay $10 / month for gamepass, I certainly wouldn't. For $120 per year on PC, you can basically play most of the games you want, especially if you don't buy them day 1.

At least, I don't think a $15 per month subscription is sustainable at all. It's $180 / year, with that price people will just buy the 3 best $60 games of the year instead, you can even easily get 5 or 6 of them if you wait for them a bit. And you can choose the best games or at least those you want. And play them when you want.

Edit : actually, while I say that, I just checked and it just changed to €9,99 last month lol, so there goes my Gamepass subscription unfortunately. Too bad I didn't have time to check every game I wanted but that's not worth it anymore in my opinion... There are tons of games I want on PC I can choose myself with €120 per year... And I play more on my PS5 right now anyway. I can still resub later for one month if there's a game I want to play.
 
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But that's the problem. If all they have is good back compat, why buy an Xbox S|X now? It's honestly the worst console launch games wise, maybe ever. If it's all about the games, why didn't they have more than Halo planned for launch? And why didn't they do a better job of managing its development.

It's all about the subscriptions. Games be damned.
The XSX|S had more games available to play than the X1 did day one. X1 had no back compatibility nor Game pass. Sony only fans are the ones who harp on the Xbox not having tons of 1st party, 3rd person, story driven, single player games. A thing MS never really made. Several new games have launched on Game pass over the month the system has been out. Ton of the older titles are getting updates that don't cost the player extra money. Gears 5 and Forza Horizon 4 just to name 2. Games like Call of Duty War Zone run better on the XSX than PS5 so that back compatibility is clearly something worth having just ask Sony seeing how they at least have made an attempt at bringing it back to their consoles. On top of that the 'old' games on the Xbox tend to run better at higher framerates, resolutions, auto HDR, and filtering. Sony only fans can handwave those things off because they don't have them.

I will say that yes they need to manage game releases better internally but delaying a game like Halo that needed more development should be a good thing as supposed to releasing a game that is unfinished. I am one of the few here that thought was shown looked FUN to play and that is what I care about more over pop-in or 'Craig'(Something you had to freezeframe to even see!). MS has lots of internal studios and if they can get those studios releasing good games at a good rate MS will be fine. They aren't in a race to sell the most boxes like Sony so they can easily find success doing what they are doing now. But there is no question things are not the same as the TV days and if you are looking for games to play Xbox has tons of them.
 
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