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Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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leizzra

leizzra

Member
People need to realise that it's not that CDPR became this type of company from day to day. This is how they are. By 'they' I mean bosses and management. There main goal was to have this great PR and developing in minds of gamers this label of 'gamer first' company. And they did that. I was supprised how quickly people were into that. Especially people outside of Poland because for Polish people CDPR is a national wealth. They were first to making announcments even when they didn't have to - like with smart delivery and other stuff. It was all to build their reputation. But you can't be this good company only outside and internally every game development was a nightmare starting from Witcher 1. When people are saying that they would buy CDPR game even if it's not good then we have a problem - you never should have this much of a trust in the company especially big company that is on stock market. This makes them in too comfortable position.

For me problems in CDPR are that they are not making games with common sense. You can't be like Rockstar quickly, you can't make huge games without limits. It's not like CDPR is so special that only them can make this type of games. We all are limited by budgets - financial and time. Thats why you are making decisions taking that into mind. They didn't, every game that they make needs to be bigger, better then the last one. But you are getting to a point where it's hard to do that. Thats when real problems started with CP2077. Management dosen't see that. They even thought that they can make few games at a time. This is a problem with the studio politics. Other thing is that they are making a PC games first. For PC Master Race gamers it may be great (but in reality it shouldn't because that's why games are badly optimized) but for consol gamer not. It would be ok if they were thinking about releasing their games only on PC. For consols you need to design games taking into account thier limitations. That's why CP will never be well optimized for PS4 and XO. It's not because old consols are too weak but because the game wasn't made for them. They should take decision if they want to make a game for old hardware (so for 100+ mln gamers) or only for PC and next gen consols (so for much less gamers but with advantages of newer hardware). CDPR wanted all.

It's good that it happened now. This may be a lesson for bosses of CDPR and it may stop them in the future from doing even worst. Because if it was a flawless succes then I cen assure you that it would be another huge corporation that doesn't care about gamers. Now there is a chanse of them being affraid of that. This is only thing that keeps them at bay. Don't pity them only be thankful that they made this error now and not in few years time when they would have so much money that they wouldn't care.
 
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FunkMiller

FunkMiller

Banned
The avalanche of complaints Sony must have had to pull the biggest game of the year from their store must have been colossal.

I feel sorry for the CDPR devs, but fuck every single person in management who signed off on releasing the game.

Hopefully Sony’s action here will set a very healthy precedent... and I hope Microsoft are smart enough to follow suit, otherwise they’ll cede a HUGE amount of PR goodwill to their chief competition.
 
kyliethicc

kyliethicc

Member
FunkMiller said:
The avalanche of complaints Sony must have had to pull the biggest game of the year from their store must have been colossal.

I feel sorry for the CDPR devs, but fuck every single person in management who signed off on releasing the game.

Hopefully Sony’s action here will set a very healthy precedent... and I hope Microsoft are smart enough to follow suit, otherwise they’ll cede a HUGE amount of PR goodwill to their chief competition.
Click to expand...
Its actually just simple store policy for Sony. CDPR wanted to give PS4 players option for refunds. To give all PS4 players a refund option, CDPR have to work with every seller of their game, including Sony.

So for Sony as the digital store runner, their policy is as follows:

If the game is on the PS4 digital store, then it works. If it works, then no refunds.
If they want to give refunds, then the game doesn't work.
If the game doesn't work, then it can't continue to be sold. Delisted.

Sony can't allow new users to buy CP2077 while also offering owners refunds. If they did, would affect all games on their store.

Thats why CP2077 for PS4 will continue to be sold physically, but not digitally. Its just to do with Sony's store refund policy. Thats why Sony themselves delisted The Last of Us Part 2 back in May when they indefinitely delayed the game due to covid and issued refunds to all digital pre-orders. The game only went back onto the PS4 store once they announced the new June release date.
 
FunkMiller

FunkMiller

Banned
kyliethicc said:
Its actually just simple store policy for Sony. CDPR wanted to give PS4 players option for refunds. To give all PS4 players a refund option, CDPR have to work with every seller of their game, including Sony.

So for Sony as the digital store runner, their policy is as follows:

If the game is on the PS4 digital store, then it works. If it works, then no refunds.
If they want to give refunds, then the game doesn't work.
If the game doesn't work, then it can't continue to be sold. Delisted.

Sony can't allow new users to buy CP2077 while also offering owners refunds. If they did, would affect all games on their store.

Thats why CP2077 for PS4 will continue to be sold physically, but not digitally. Its just to do with Sony's store refund policy. Thats why Sony themselves delisted The Last of Us Part 2 back in May when they indefinitely delayed the game due to covid and issued refunds to all digital pre-orders. The game only went back onto the PS4 store once they announced the new June release date.
Click to expand...

Yeah, Sony had no choice but to delist. This whole debacle should cause them to look at their refunds policy as well.

This will probably be good for the games industry moving forward, but shame a potentially good game had to be sacrificed to get here.
 
PSX

PSX

Member
I don't blame Sony after release high natch quality game Cyberpunk 2077 was scam to the older generation it's unfair and it shouldn't been release just yet, they need another year or so.

 
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Mr Moose

Mr Moose

Member
FunkMiller said:
The avalanche of complaints Sony must have had to pull the biggest game of the year from their store must have been colossal.

I feel sorry for the CDPR devs, but fuck every single person in management who signed off on releasing the game.

Hopefully Sony’s action here will set a very healthy precedent... and I hope Microsoft are smart enough to follow suit, otherwise they’ll cede a HUGE amount of PR goodwill to their chief competition.
Click to expand...
They got sick of me sending crash reports.
You're welcome, Cyberpunk buyers.
 
HoofHearted

HoofHearted

Member
FunkMiller said:
..... I hope Microsoft are smart enough to follow suit, otherwise they’ll cede a HUGE amount of PR goodwill to their chief competition.
Click to expand...

not disagreeing... but at this point if people are electing to buy this game on XO or PS4 at this point - then they’re just as culpable...

it’s like buying a cheesecake that you’ve already been told and know that it tastes like burnt hair and mango...

the real question here is ... will stores start yanking physical copies from shelves or is this just a temp stopgap via Sony’s online store? It’s inconsistent messaging. Either sell the game or don’t.
 
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FunkMiller

FunkMiller

Banned
HoofHearted said:
the real question here is ... will stores start yanking physical copies from shelves or is this just a temp stopgap via Sony’s online store online? It’s inconsistent messaging. Either sell the game or don’t.
Click to expand...

Up to the stores. Sony have no control over it. It is inconsistent, but not down to Sony. It’d probably be smart for stores to offer blanket refunds as well, but I doubt many of them will.
 
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HoofHearted

HoofHearted

Member
FunkMiller said:
Up to the stores. Sony have no control over it. It is inconsistent, but not down to Sony. It’d probably be smart for stores to offer blanket refunds as well, but I doubt many of them will.
Click to expand...

Agreed or even more straightforward - CPDR should issue a recall on the game at this point. Tell the stores to stop selling it. Stop production.
 
bitbydeath

bitbydeath

Member
kyliethicc said:
Its actually just simple store policy for Sony. CDPR wanted to give PS4 players option for refunds. To give all PS4 players a refund option, CDPR have to work with every seller of their game, including Sony.

So for Sony as the digital store runner, their policy is as follows:

If the game is on the PS4 digital store, then it works. If it works, then no refunds.
If they want to give refunds, then the game doesn't work.
If the game doesn't work, then it can't continue to be sold. Delisted.

Sony can't allow new users to buy CP2077 while also offering owners refunds. If they did, would affect all games on their store.

Thats why CP2077 for PS4 will continue to be sold physically, but not digitally. Its just to do with Sony's store refund policy. Thats why Sony themselves delisted The Last of Us Part 2 back in May when they indefinitely delayed the game due to covid and issued refunds to all digital pre-orders. The game only went back onto the PS4 store once they announced the new June release date.
Click to expand...

We’ve had stories on GAF in the past of people successfully obtaining refunds for games on PSN.

This is just being pulled because it no longer meets their requirements.

Edit: Here’s an example:
www.neogaf.com

WOW OMG: Steam is refunding No Man's Sky even if you played more then 2 hours

Edit: If you have trouble getting a refund, ask for the supervisor. Try again with another supervisor if the pervious supervisor denied your refund. Edit 2: I would advise AGAINST chargebacks. Steam, PSN and others will ban your account. You can get a refund if you buy from these companies. If...
www.neogaf.com www.neogaf.com
 
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kyliethicc

kyliethicc

Member
bitbydeath said:
We’ve had stories on GAF in the past of people successfully obtaining refunds for games on PSN.

This is just being pulled because it no longer meets their requirements.

Edit: Here’s an example:
www.neogaf.com

WOW OMG: Steam is refunding No Man's Sky even if you played more then 2 hours

Edit: If you have trouble getting a refund, ask for the supervisor. Try again with another supervisor if the pervious supervisor denied your refund. Edit 2: I would advise AGAINST chargebacks. Steam, PSN and others will ban your account. You can get a refund if you buy from these companies. If...
www.neogaf.com www.neogaf.com
Click to expand...
Yeah I've even had an order refunded by Sony before too, but I was just 1 person and had not played the game yet.

I think Sony want to avoid setting a precedent of allowing millions of users to buy games, play them for hours, and then get their money back.
 
FrankWza

FrankWza

Member
kyliethicc said:
Thats why CP2077 for PS4 will continue to be sold physically, but not digitally. Its just to do with Sony's store refund policy. Thats why Sony themselves delisted The Last of Us Part 2 back in May when they indefinitely delayed the game due to covid and issued refunds to all digital pre-orders. The game only went back onto the PS4 store once they announced the new June release date.
Click to expand...

the patch and next gen situation needs to be handled carefully as well. It’s certainly a unique spot to be in. But I think Sony did good here. Acted swiftly. This is on CDPR. The wrote check that could not be cashed when they came out and made that refund statement. Bush league.

[/QUOTE]
 
LucidFlux

LucidFlux

Member
Man we all suspected the game would be a bit rough at launch but this is unprecedented.

Damn the management and shareholders at CDPR. If nothing else, I want the ones who actually spent 8 years of their lives working on the game to have their hard work paid off and enjoyed by the players. I truly hope the developers get ample time to rest and are able to, over time, at least get the game to a stable state for the world to enjoy.

I get pissed if I spend a few weeks on a project that gets scrapped, I can't imagine pouring nearly a decade of my life into something for it to turn out like this.

That said, I still hope to buy the next-gen version whenever it's finally finished baking.
 
LiquidRex

LiquidRex

Member
Let's be honest, the real reason Sony pulled Cyberpunk from the store wasn't because its pants, but so they could then add and promote Spiderman Remaster as a standalone purchase option. 😜 😜 😜
 
Great Hair

Great Hair

Banned
www.animenewsnetwork.com

Japan's Supreme Court Rejects Koei Tecmo's Appeal of Capcom's Patent Lawsuit

Court upholds last year's decision for Koei Tecmo to pay 143 million yen in damages
www.animenewsnetwork.com www.animenewsnetwork.com
CAPCOM had filed a lawsuit with the Osaka District Court on July 4, 2014. CAPCOM claimed KOEI Tecmo infringed on Patent No. 3350773 (Patent A) with the Dynasty Warriors and Samurai Warriors game series, and Patent No. 3295771 (Patent B) with the Fatal Frame game series.

CAPCOM argued that KOEI Tecmo infringed on Patent A with "new content acquired through using a previous game and new software" and on Patent B with "a controller-vibrating feature when enemies are nearby.
Click to expand...
 
L

Lemondish

Member
Lunatic_Gamer said:



Man I feel bad for CDPR. How could one the most trusted, most competent gaming studios in the world fall from grace so quickly like that? Mismanagement perhaps? Pressure from shareholders to release a broken product? I guess we will never know...
Click to expand...


Perhaps because the trust placed in then was unearned. This isn't even the first time they released a broken mess.
 
Ancient Gamer

Ancient Gamer

Member
FunkMiller said:
Up to the stores. Sony have no control over it. It is inconsistent, but not down to Sony. It’d probably be smart for stores to offer blanket refunds as well, but I doubt many of them will.
Click to expand...
Here in Australia bricks and mortar stores like JBHifi and EBGames are offering refunds for physical purchases of the game including Collectors Editions that have activated the DLC codes. 👍
 
GAF machine

GAF machine

Member
PaintTinJr said:
Great info, real interesting the way you referenced so much to make a really solid argument that would be hard for someone to wave away.

One of the other things I would have never thought to attribute to the know-how gained with the Cell SPUs - but looking at the slide you linked, as show here (image processing background subtraction) and thinking about the Cell being the "networked processor" - Sony's new low latency programmable (logic on censor) image censors almost certainly must have stemmed from that R&D, too.

yLDBBSq.jpg


The ability to discard unneeded imagine data at source(the sensor) because the logic is processing locally while the imagine input is still in-flight, filtering it and vectorising/meta-ing it from megabytes down to kilobytes per frame is almost certainly the reason they have made a 2D screen (with a low-latency camera sensor) that provides the (single)observer with a dynamic stereoscopic view experience of their 3D models, by tracking the observer's eyes and relaying the intent of those eye moments with so little data/latency (and load on the system CPU) the observer believes they are looking round the object in real-time.

Thinking about that a little bit more, those sensors are probably the reason Sony have managed to automate building consoles all the way down to the robotics needed for inserting the tiny ribbon cables - which is apparently where Apple-et al failed . Such a low latency feedback response is almost human levels of coordinated feedback IMHO, and would make sense if a tiny lithography (programmable) SPU descendent on a sensor is their solution.
Click to expand...

Hmm... If you're referring to the IMX500/501 image sensors, then the thought never occurred to me that the image sensors may have been influenced by CELL R&D or that the image sensors might have an enhanced SPE(s) variant onboard. Now that I think about it... I think you might be on to something. Kutaragi did want 'mini' and 'micro' CELLs for low power devices to appear at some point in the future, and along with saying:

"The design concept of the Cell processor is the network processor" -- Ken Kutaragi
Click to expand...

he did say:

"The Cell enables enormous applications that require image processing and large-volume computing." -- Ken Kutaragi
Click to expand...

It's entirely plausible that Sony's experience with image convolution on CELL (CELL's SDK had a library for convolution functions) may have come in handy during the IMX500/501's R&D. Software (of the convolutional neural network variety?) the CELL-based MPE-200 used to process images on the fly in real-time for live broadcast events (more in the video description)...

​


may have informed the implementation of MobileNet V1 on the image sensors too.

As for those robotic arms building consoles inside Sony's automated factory, you may very well be right in suggesting that SPE-influenced (or derived) image sensors might be part of each brain behind the bots operations.

PS3 had a SPE library for machine vision (put to good use with PS Eye). So if the image sensors have an SPE(s) variant of some type, then perhaps some or all of the library's SPU code was refactored and tailored for it.

Apart from Sony/SCE's own efforts, Matrix Vision sold cameras that could be connected to PS3 for machine vision. The cameras could be connected to MV's CELL-based mvXCell-8i too. Several of the latter could be used to do image processing on the frontend of PC hardware (an example of this coming up next); but the most performant option was to have cameras connected to frame grabbers connected to IBM BladeCenters full of QS22 CELL blades. Inspection of materials used in manufacturing was one of the many applications MV's products could be used for.

The example I mentioned in passing earlier was in regards to the Axion Racing team's autonomous Jeep. Back in '07 the team took a PS3 and connected it to a Dell rack server. The PS3 did real-time image processing on the frontend of the rack server for vehicle awareness, while the rack server managed the autonomous system.

Of course, Sony's robotic arms (and its autonomous car) are way more advanced and sophisticated than Axion's Jeep; but the example (and the others above it) goes to show that CELL taught a few lessons around real-time image processing and machine vision. It wouldn't surprise me one iota if one day it was revealed that Sony's new image sensors were heirs to CELL's legacy or even direct descendants.
 
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danielJackson

danielJackson

Banned
Ancient Gamer said:
Here in Australia bricks and mortar stores like JBHifi and EBGames are offering refunds for physical purchases of the game including Collectors Editions that have activated the DLC codes. 👍
Click to expand...

What dlc codes?

I have the collectors edition and it doesnt have codes, or they are hidden somewhere. (Didnt open the evidence bag)

They dont even list dlc codes being included.

Unless you mean that digital comic etc, which i would not count as in-game dlc, just a bonus material (digital download content but not in same sense)
 
Ancient Gamer

Ancient Gamer

Member
danielJackson said:
What dlc codes?

I have the collectors edition and it doesnt have codes, or they are hidden somewhere. (Didnt open the evidence bag)

They dont even list dlc codes being included.

Unless you mean that digital comic etc, which i would not count as in-game dlc, just a bonus material (digital download content but not in same sense)
Click to expand...
DLC is probably the wrong term. Digital items included with the pre-order (via code) here in Australia.

Digital goodies included:
  • Original Score
  • Art booklet featuring a selection of art from the game
  • Digital Comic
  • Cyberpunk 2077: Your Voice
  • Cyberpunk 2020 sourcebook
  • Wallpapers for desktop and mobile
My apologies for the confusion.
 
KURDISTAN YPG

KURDISTAN YPG

Member
what i dont get is why people claimed this game will be great, i called long time ago, this game is too ambitious for even ps5/ series x

this what happens when you have such brain dead followers

as for people claiming this is " AAA game" no is not, most people fucking hype this shit up solely based on the fucking witcher
 
HawarMiran

HawarMiran

Banned
Kurd o Azadi said:
what i dont get is why people claimed this game will be great, i called long time ago, this game is too ambitious for even ps5/ series x

this what happens when you have such brain dead followers

as for people claiming this is " AAA game" no is not, most people fucking hype this shit up solely based on the fucking witcher
Click to expand...
I like your nick :messenger_beaming:
 
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