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NFL Offseason Thread |OT2| Brought To You By Buckethead
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Buckethead
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Buckethead
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So they traded Revis...
Can we still trade Tramon to Tampa?
Can we still trade Tramon to Tampa?
:jnc
Thinking on it some more, the picks the Bucs gave up and the contract they got Revis to agree to, I can say both sides won.
Jets actually have a decent secondary even without Revis. They were ranked #2 in pass D last season and that is with a terrible pass rush and so so LBs. So they can use 1 of the 2 first round picks on a pass rusher, the other on Austin, and if they want to draft a QB take whoever slides into the 2nd round which could include Geno Smith.
Bucs had the worst secondary and their FA pick ups will be opening day starters and 10 times better than anyone they could pick in this years draft. Before I knew what they were giving up and the contract I thought they were better off just staying put in the draft and selecting a top CB prospect. I am also of the opinion that while Revis is an elite CB, you need more good players spread across your defense than one dominant CB. But a 4th round pick in next years draft isn't much and they can still add depth and secondary help. Not bad. $16 million a year is steep but then again they have the money, nothing is guaranteed, and this helps their PR/marketing to get people to support the team.
This rumor of the Jets interest in Geno Smith is interesting. If they are ready to already draft Sanchez's replacement, which I think his a mistake to do in this years draft, then maybe the Eagles can trade for one of their picks to move down. Very interesting on how this will shake up the draft board now.
Jets actually have a decent secondary even without Revis. They were ranked #2 in pass D last season and that is with a terrible pass rush and so so LBs. So they can use 1 of the 2 first round picks on a pass rusher, the other on Austin, and if they want to draft a QB take whoever slides into the 2nd round which could include Geno Smith.
Bucs had the worst secondary and their FA pick ups will be opening day starters and 10 times better than anyone they could pick in this years draft. Before I knew what they were giving up and the contract I thought they were better off just staying put in the draft and selecting a top CB prospect. I am also of the opinion that while Revis is an elite CB, you need more good players spread across your defense than one dominant CB. But a 4th round pick in next years draft isn't much and they can still add depth and secondary help. Not bad. $16 million a year is steep but then again they have the money, nothing is guaranteed, and this helps their PR/marketing to get people to support the team.
This rumor of the Jets interest in Geno Smith is interesting. If they are ready to already draft Sanchez's replacement, which I think his a mistake to do in this years draft, then maybe the Eagles can trade for one of their picks to move down. Very interesting on how this will shake up the draft board now.
I just looked it up. He's a human being, racist.
Seems odd to wear swim trunks and flip flops to a rock/rap concertGrampsford
Just the other day. Who would go to a concert in flip flops?
What is Sam Bradford in college (I think)?
Scouts rankings on DL class
Money quote imo
That's my thing on draft DL in top 10. There's no value. The offensive linemen will go early. I'm guessing Cooper, Warmack, Fluker, Johnson, Joeckel, and Fisher all in the top 10. Teams will trade up for those guys, and teams that can't will use them as fall back picks
Money quote imo
That's my thing on draft DL in top 10. There's no value. The offensive linemen will go early. I'm guessing Cooper, Warmack, Fluker, Johnson, Joeckel, and Fisher all in the top 10. Teams will trade up for those guys, and teams that can't will use them as fall back picks
Dutch Gronk
Banned
Bradford has really skinny calves.
This is probably the nightmare scenario for the Browns. You can guarantee if it falls like this the Browns will definitely want to trade down to San Diego or the Chargers who hopefully want Lane Johnson.
For the sake of this scenario though I think we go with either Ansah or Floyd. Whilst our DL is probably contains the best starting line up in the team of all the positions Lombardi is well known to be a fan of "winning in the trenches."
With Rubin due a lot of money next year they may decide to go with either of Floyd or Ansah as a replacement, and use Rubin (or perhaps Sheard if Ansah was drafted to plug in at 3-4 OLB). I'll go with Floyd as I just think the Rubin trade is more likely to happen than a Sheard one. They still have hope of Sheard making the transition.
That said, if the draft falls like this on draft day you can put money on the Browns trading out.
yankeehater
Member
I think the Browns should take Tavon Austin here. Give the old man some more weapons and see if he can get it done or not. IRL if it goes this way I am sure the Browns would trade down.
Dutch Gronk
Banned
I think this should definitely be a possibility here. That defense is already pretty good, they could add to a young, and somewhat promising WR group with the most explosive player in this draft.
I know that some view 6th as too early for him, but I kinda like him better for the Browns than the other guys mentioned.
yankeehater
Member
Yeah I really hate how hung up on perceived value the draft"experts" are. Austin is an explosive player and a guy that could really flourish in Chud and Norv's offense. I think he would be a really good fit for the Browns.
I'd rather avoid Austin, even if he is "the most explosive offensive player" in the draft. Especially at #6. It doesn't solve anything. We have nobody to play second corner and no free safety. WR is a luxury we can't afford right now.
I'm all for going best person available over need but when the BPA are similiarly rated and you have needs you have to go that route. We need to recoup a second roudner somehow. Plus we have no idea how this offense and this group of receivers will work in this new offence.
I'd feel more comfortable having players that can fill out our secondary whilst watching our offence under new coaching than watching our offence with an explosive Austin and a weak secondary getting jumped on all the time.
I'm all for going best person available over need but when the BPA are similiarly rated and you have needs you have to go that route. We need to recoup a second roudner somehow. Plus we have no idea how this offense and this group of receivers will work in this new offence.
I'd feel more comfortable having players that can fill out our secondary whilst watching our offence under new coaching than watching our offence with an explosive Austin and a weak secondary getting jumped on all the time.
A wide out at 6. Amazing. Browns must be trying to find that final piece for an undefeated season. Know what you can never have enough of? Defensive players. It's likely that Star/Millner will be here. Take them. Don't waste a pick on a guy who requires 6 other guys (including Weeden) to do their job before he has even a chance of being effective on any given play.
It's laughable that anyone thinks Austin is the best player available at 6.
It's laughable that anyone thinks Austin is the best player available at 6.
DeaconKnowledge
Member
Austin is the pick the Browns will make, but not the one they should make.
The_Darkest_Red
Member
So is it basically in agreement that Milliner is a reach anywhere in the top ten or so? I thought he would make sense for the Browns. Haden and Milliner would make a great duo.
EDIT: I'm an idiot, didn't notice that Milliner was gone to the Lions already. I'll go with Floyd.
EDIT: I'm an idiot, didn't notice that Milliner was gone to the Lions already. I'll go with Floyd.
yankeehater
Member
Who is the BPA then at #6? WR is one of the positions on a football team, the idea that it is some frivolous luxury item seems silly to be. The Browns WRs are not good and a lot of talk about Weedens struggles last year focused on how poor their WRs were. If they are going to run an offense like what Norv ran in SD and Dallas it is a big play stretch the field offense. The Browns dont have anyone now that can really do that. The way the draft is going soon teams will only be allowed to pick like 3 positions in the top 10.
Star/Milliner aren't available for them in this mock. It's truely a nightmare scenario for them. Tradedown is their best hope.
I'm 50/50 on Floyd/Austin, Floyd would project to be a 3/4 end in their system, but I don't think he's a huge upside/grade over their current ends.
Did you see McGinn's report on Austin? Did you see LJ picking Austin for the Bills in his mock? He's legit good, and the Browns do lack a playmaker on O that's not Richardson; and this guy is a perfect fit for Norv's offense.
This is very much an atypical draft, only reason Austin is slotted so high.
Austin's probably the bpa. You can pick a corner in the second round easily, going to be alot of good ones in that range.
It's not a big deal. WE made it to the playoffs with fucking garbage at wideout, remember? I'd go for the sure thing at D.
yankeehater
Member
Lots of teams have made the playoffs while being deficient at one position or another. The Eagles covered up their poor WRs by having a great defense, OL, and running game. That was also 10 years ago, and the NFL has changed the rules to favor passing a lot since then.
Alligatorjandro
Banned
Mingo for the Browns.
Jarvis Jones would be a good pick for them too.
Jarvis Jones would be a good pick for them too.
You guys are doing another mock? Didn't realize that.
Plus take into account the fact that his stock has dramatically risen as a result of work he has done since the season ended and not what he did on the field and nah. No thanks.
I bet he will be a fine player but he needs to go somewhere that he can be useful, not Cleveland. Put him on a playoff team and he is scary. Put him on a lottery pick team and he has a 5 year mediocre career with lots of reverses and injuries. NFLN will still demand that you PAY THE MAN after his one breakout season though.
I don't know who has been picked but Floyd is probably ten spots higher on a big board I whipped up two weeks ago. I tried to remove position bias (which is a massive mistake imo) and I think Austin ended up like 15 or 16. With position bias I'd drop him to 25 or so. He'll obviously go earlier as teams don't draft on BPA as much as they claim and it's easy to sell fans on a wide out but it's a pick for dumb teams before 20. Taking him in the top 10 is laughable. I could see a big body speed WR in the top ten but a scat guy? No way.
Plus take into account the fact that his stock has dramatically risen as a result of work he has done since the season ended and not what he did on the field and nah. No thanks.
I bet he will be a fine player but he needs to go somewhere that he can be useful, not Cleveland. Put him on a playoff team and he is scary. Put him on a lottery pick team and he has a 5 year mediocre career with lots of reverses and injuries. NFLN will still demand that you PAY THE MAN after his one breakout season though.
Josh Gordon and Travis Benjamin could both be those stretch guys.
If we're going by the 5 that have gone in our draft already the next BPA for me is, in order:
Floyd DT
Johnson OT
Warmack OG
Cooper OG
Mingo OLB
We're doing a mock per Squicken's rules from earlier.
I just think the defensive linemen in this draft are completely unimpressive, it's such an unusal draft. I would trade 3 of them for a Clowney for next year.
And there's two reasons for the droppings, the other more important reason is the scouting stuff from guys like McGinn and Nawrocki are starting to circulate a bit more. And that's what I'm using as my basis, Floyd's going to be a solid 4/3 dt 3/4 de, but not a special one. Austin has a chance to be a special wr.
Goro Majima
Kitty Genovese Member
I liked Tavon Austin for the Lions but not the Browns. I think you have to draft for the trenches if you're the Browns. Give Trent Richardson some help instead of Weeden by drafting one of those amazing 'Bama guards or go with Floyd for the defensive line.
I think Floyd is the pick here.
I think Floyd is the pick here.
As someone who is intimately familiar with McGinn's track record (and as someone who has been severely influenced by his writings in the past) I'll say...uh, grain of salt. Generally he is just quoting scouts who refuse to be named and since he is such a longtime beat writer and incredibly well respected, you have to read between the lines. He tries to spell it out as often as possible with some identifiers (NFC scout), (Scout for a playoff team), etc but a lot of that stuff is smoke from scouts trying to influence opinion on players. McGinn is awesome in that he reports it all, but still...be wary.
Bottom line on Tavon Austin is that his closest comparable (even among the scouts touting him) seems to be Randall Cobb. I love Cobb, wouldn't spend a 6th overall pick on him.
I have no idea what squicken's rules are.
Bottom line on Tavon Austin is that his closest comparable (even among the scouts touting him) seems to be Randall Cobb. I love Cobb, wouldn't spend a 6th overall pick on him.
I have no idea what squicken's rules are.
The_Darkest_Red
Member
Basically it's a mock where everyone's input is welcome, fan of the team or not, and you're thinking about what you think is best as opposed to what you think the team will do. It's more about the debate and discussion than anything, and there are no firm rules on time limits or anything like that.
yankeehater
Member
He wanted to do a mock where the whole community discusses every pick and then we try to reach a consensus on what each team should do, not what they will do. So we have made our cases for each pick and then voted on them.
Ayup, there's obviously going to be some people are trying to smokescreen with him and Nawrocki, but when everything's positive about a player. It's suggesting yeah he's good, but we just don't see anybody drafting him that high, so we don't care.
My problem is that Austin would be a 15-20 in a more typical draft, this draft sucks.
Durability and intelligence are big potential red flags if you are expecting a guy to play all over the field and touch the ball consistently. Cobb is valuable because he earned Rodgers trust. I don't want a guy who is going to take until week 10 to learn the playbook in that role. Especially in Cleveland where there is likely to be a new playbook every three years!
The_Darkest_Red
Member
Speaking of which, it looks like the new logo is starting to show up on some merch. I hate the design of this hat (and I'm not a hat person) but I love the new colors and logo:
But, at the end of the day, uniforms don't really matter.
I think Milliner's still the best cb, Hayden's the best upside but his technique isn't as refined + injury history. Mingo's a good fit, but I don't like Ansah in a 3-4.
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