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Nintendo demoed Switch 2 to devs at Gamescom | Sources Claim it runs Matrix UE5 Demo With Comparable Graphics to PS5/XSX

Kataploom

Gold Member
"I don't get why people are so assblasted that Nintendo has a comparable level of power to its competition again, as if the SNES/N64/GameCube never existed."
I'm not native english but, isn't that exactly what they said?
Some are saying it's "impossible" for Nintendo to have a console as powerful as PS/Xbox because "they are Nintendo", but Nintendo has always had the most or almost the most powerful consoles of the market before the Wii so that doesn't make sense. Nintendo does Nintendo and that is "whatever the hell they want without following patterns"
 

zeldaring

Banned
Some are saying it's "impossible" for Nintendo to have a console as powerful as PS/Xbox because "they are Nintendo", but Nintendo has always had the most or almost the most powerful consoles of the market before the Wii so that doesn't make sense. Nintendo does Nintendo and that is "whatever the hell they want without following patterns"
Yea thats like over 20 years ago lol.
 

L*][*N*K

Banned
So maybe we get a proper reveal soon?
got your proper reveal right here
r343MS2.jpg
 

Kataploom

Gold Member
Yea thats like over 20 years ago lol.
13 and technology is in Nintendo favor.

I'm not saying Switch 2 is gonna be Portable PS5 or so, but:
1. Mobile technology has speed up a lot in the last decade
2. Graphic technology is facing a diminishing return
3. Nintendo Switch is pretty popular so mindshare is in their favor if they decide to release a $400 device
4. People these days are way easier to spend hundreds on electronic devices than they were on Wii U or PS3 days
5. Points 3 and 4 means that they can release a $400 or $450 console and even carry some loss leading (which they're not stranger to) and trust it will sell a lot.

I think Nintendo will eventually reach PS and Xbox raw power with mobile technology due to point 1, I mean, Switch isn't even as far behind Xbone as some claim and mobile tech is way better and cheaper these days.
 

zeldaring

Banned
13 and technology is in Nintendo favor.

I'm not saying Switch 2 is gonna be Portable PS5 or so, but:
1. Mobile technology has speed up a lot in the last decade
2. Graphic technology is facing a diminishing return
3. Nintendo Switch is pretty popular so mindshare is in their favor if they decide to release a $400 device
4. People these days are way easier to spend hundreds on electronic devices than they were on Wii U or PS3 days
5. Points 3 and 4 means that they can release a $400 or $450 console and even carry some loss leading (which they're not stranger to) and trust it will sell a lot.

I think Nintendo will eventually reach PS and Xbox raw power with mobile technology due to point 1, I mean, Switch isn't even as far behind Xbone as some claim and mobile tech is way better and cheaper these days.
What you mean 13? gamecube released in 2001 that was the last time they released hardware that can compete. As for switch being close to xbox not sure i owned a ps4 and graphically/performance ps4 games like nextgen compared to switch. As for switch 3 catching up not gonna happen This gen switch might get lucky cause dsll and current can't run RT at acceptable levels but once AMD masters Their version which is looking good with fsr3 you are gonna need powerful hardware to get 60fps/Nextgen ray tracing.
 
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lestar

Member
13 and technology is in Nintendo favor.

I'm not saying Switch 2 is gonna be Portable PS5 or so, but:
1. Mobile technology has speed up a lot in the last decade
2. Graphic technology is facing a diminishing return
3. Nintendo Switch is pretty popular so mindshare is in their favor if they decide to release a $400 device
4. People these days are way easier to spend hundreds on electronic devices than they were on Wii U or PS3 days
5. Points 3 and 4 means that they can release a $400 or $450 console and even carry some loss leading (which they're not stranger to) and trust it will sell a lot.

I think Nintendo will eventually reach PS and Xbox raw power with mobile technology due to point 1, I mean, Switch isn't even as far behind Xbone as some claim and mobile tech is way better and cheaper these days.
6. Nintendo is using latest nvidia tech, which if far superior of AMD's and any other competitor in graphics and AI hardware
 

Kataploom

Gold Member
what you mean 13? gamecube released in 2001 that was the last time they released hardware that can compete. as for switch to close to xbox not sure i owned a ps4 and graphically/performance ps4 games like nextgen compared to switch. As for switching catching up not gonna happen This gen switch might get lucky cause dsll and current can't run RT at acceptable levels but once AMD masters Their version which is looking good with fsr3 you are gonna need powerful hardware to get 60fps/Nextgen ray tracing.
I mean, 13 years since the Wii but yeah, you're right counting from GC launch.

PS4 was on another level even compared to Xbone, but as it had same shitty CPU and only graphics improved, games could still be downscaled easily.

Resolution/frame rate aside, Switch can do eveything that PS4 and Xbone can do, on docked it can put out around 400-600 GFLOPS so around a third or half Xbone in terms of graphical output alone so as long as the problem is graphical performance, games can be downscaled to Switch easily.

Switch problem is mostly memory bandwidth that bottlenecks the CPU and GPU, MVG made a video about it and how overclocking Switch memory drastically reduces Zelda TOTK frame rates when using the ultrahand (which is the moment people complains about game performance):

 

zeldaring

Banned
I mean, 13 years since the Wii but yeah, you're right counting from GC launch.

PS4 was on another level even compared to Xbone, but as it had same shitty CPU and only graphics improved, games could still be downscaled easily.

Resolution/frame rate aside, Switch can do eveything that PS4 and Xbone can do, on docked it can put out around 400-600 GFLOPS so around a third or half Xbone in terms of graphical output alone so as long as the problem is graphical performance, games can be downscaled to Switch easily.

Switch problem is mostly memory bandwidth that bottlenecks the CPU and GPU, MVG made a video about it and how overclocking Switch memory drastically reduces Zelda TOTK frame rates when using the ultrahand (which is the moment people complains about game performance):


Being in mobile is always gonna have huge disadvantages compared to home console. What you are expecting is unrealistic to say the least most game impressive game didn't even come to switch because developers thought it wasn't worth having butchered version ike Witcher 3 or doom. Now with switch 2 things will be much better aminly cause DSLL but expecting mobile to catch up to home consoles in the next 20 years is not gonna happen.
 
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T4keD0wN

Member
Another VGC source claimed that Nintendo showcased Epic’s impressive The Matrix Awakens Unreal Engine 5 tech demo – originally released to showcase the power of PlayStation 5 and Xbox Series X in 2021 – running on target specs for its next console.
Switch 2 will have GeForce NOW streaming?. Thats nice.
 
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Thick Thighs Save Lives

NeoGAF's Physical Games Advocate Extraordinaire
I would love to be wrong.... but this has to be bullshit.
Take it with a grain of salt, ofc, but the claims could very well be true as both Tom Phillips (author of this Eurogamer article) and Andy Robinson from VGC are reputable journos. They wouldn't put out these reports if the info they got through their sources was not credible.

 
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RoboFu

One of the green rats
images


It'll be a neck-snapping twist going from "graphics don't matter" to "I HAVE THE POWWWAH!" back to "whatever, graphics don't matter". This thing can't come out soon enough.
Both of those thoughts can exist at the same time you know and not contradict each other. 😵‍💫

You can be someone who cares more about the gameplay, but of course likes it to look as good as it can as a cherry on top.
 

zeldaring

Banned
Take it with a grain of salt, ofc, but the claims could very well be true as both Tom Phillips (author of this Eurogamer article) and Andy Robinson from VGC are reputable journos. They wouldn't put out these reports if the info they got through their sources was not credible.


Honestly i had my doubts but way too many rumors now to deny it. DSLL is game changer but if what eurogamer says is true about FS3 matching it it then yea it just depends how much developers push the envelope with current gen cause so far it's not a huge step over ps4 pro.
 
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Please, just please do cross accounts and I'll save the rest of my tears of the kingdom playthrough for Switch 2.

If Nintendo wanted to easily keep a sizeable portion of the fanbase with a gesture of good will, why not offer a free upgrade to the Switch 2 version of Tears of the Kingdom? Only reason for this not to happen is greed.
 

MarkMe2525

Banned
Take it with a grain of salt, ofc, but the claims could very well be true as both Tom Phillips (author of this Eurogamer article) and Andy Robinson from VGC are reputable journos. They wouldn't put out these reports if the info they got through their sources was not credible.


I know, I just don't see performance like that working in a power envelope of a handheld. Maybe they are going to push the clocks significantly higher when docked. That doesn't feel right as they would effectively be asking devs to build for 2 performance targets like xbox.

I'm not stating that I know better, i'm just stating that it seems like it's too good to be true.
 
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Kataploom

Gold Member
Being in mobile is always gonna have huge disadvantages compared to home console. What you are expecting is unrealistic to say the least most game impressive game didn't even come to switch because developers thought it wasn't worth having butchered version ike Witcher 3 or doom. Now with switch 2 things will be much better aminly cause DSLL but expecting mobile to catch up to home consoles in the next 20 years is not gonna happen.
Not saying so, but that because of tech advances and graphics diminishing returns, Nintendo can make something that plays most or all current gen games with some graphical adjustments, just like the Switch with last gen games but with less compromises, then next gen Nintendo console will close the gap even more.

And I'm of the opinion that AAA third party support is lacking on Nintendo consoles mostly due to an audience disparity compared to the competition, devs feels means nothing, if publishers see sales there, they better move their assess. Switch had helped mitigate that issue by expanding it's audience.
 

SABRE220

Member
We have been told earlier that certain switch games look like their xbox one counterparts but actually they are pretty damn far. I just dont see the switch being able to really reasonably replicate the visuals in the ue5 demo on consoles. The series S which will have a significant advantage over the switch 2 barely runs the matrix demo at acceptable levels and the portable limitations in terms of bandwidth and power will make things harder. Also before people start going nvidia magic keep in mind that in ue5 nvidia and amd cards perfrom very close to each other so its not a scenario like cyberpunk where amd cards are far behind they are actually very competitive so nvidia architecture wont suddenly make up for the hap in compute here.
 

zeldaring

Banned
Not saying so, but that because of tech advances and graphics diminishing returns, Nintendo can make something that plays most or all current gen games with some graphical adjustments, just like the Switch with last gen games but with less compromises, then next gen Nintendo console will close the gap even more.

And I'm of the opinion that AAA third party support is lacking on Nintendo consoles mostly due to an audience disparity compared to the competition, devs feels means nothing, if publishers see sales there, they better move their assess. Switch had helped mitigate that issue by expanding it's audience.
Lol you said you think mobile will reach home consoles raw power and i'm just saying that ain't happening. As for switch 2 yea i think it can get most ports unless FS3 is amazing and most developers start using that and Adding top of the line RT in 2 or 3 years, then it will have problems. also depends how successful it is.
 
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zeldaring

Banned
We have been told earlier that certain switch games look like their xbox one counterparts but actually they are pretty damn far. I just dont see the switch being able to really reasonably replicate the visuals in the ue5 demo on consoles. The series S which will have a significant advantage over the switch 2 barely runs the matrix demo at acceptable levels and the portable limitations in terms of bandwidth and power will make things harder. Also before people start going nvidia magic keep in mind that in ue5 nvidia and amd cards perfrom very close to each other so its not a scenario like cyberpunk where amd cards are far behind they are actually very competitive so nvidia architecture wont suddenly make up for the hap in compute here.
Right now NVDA has huge advantage vs AMD with DSLL but AMD is suppose to have a answer with FS3, if FS3 is close then the advantage is gone.
 
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Mr Reasonable

Completely Unreasonable
I don't get why people are so assblasted that Nintendo has a comparable level of power to its competition again, as if the SNES/N64/GameCube never existed
I'm not in the slightest, uh... ...assblasted by the suggestion that Nintendo would want to get into the arms race with Sony and Microsoft, but given the massive success of the Switch, it would seem a bit weird to move to hardware that is less profitable for no real reason.

Nobody expects Nintendo to compete on a tech level, people buy Nintendo systems so they can play Nintendo games and Nintendo get to set what is an acceptable fidelity level for those games, and everyone just accepts it and accepts that art direction is more important than resolution, until a game is on Xbox and PlayStation, at that point it's very important.

But yeah, what's in it for Nintendo?
 

Dorfdad

Gold Member
I've been on team eGPU for a while now. On mobile it uses its internal GPU, and on dock an internal. Sell the eGPU dock as a pro model and call it a day. Frankly I'd love it if they sold a tv only version since I never used my switch as a portable and so most of its parts were a waste of money for me.
I’m in the eGPU bandwagon. Nintendo do can easily make a dock with an upscale built in that forces 1440p /60 out to tv making games look incredible especially with Nintendo's art styles. Add a dedicated NIC also just that Nintendo do take would be 150 overpriced
 
It's no use. Nintendo fans don't want a powerful hardware, they said it more than a million times...

Remember your favorite Nintendo fans quotes on over mobile hardwares:
- Can we talk about the battery?
- So much power is no use it's gonna kill the battery in one hour... how stupid it is!
- Mobile and power don't go togerther (they live under a rock and are clueless about M1 and M2)
- What about the price?
- And so on...

I'm gonna take some popcorns! All those Nintendo fans gonna have a heart attack if Nintendo goes full power! It's gonna be a really hard time for them... Please Nintendo, for the fun, make a very powerful hardware to piss your fans!

- We don't need your powerful stupid PS that cost 500$
- We want aarrrttt over tech every day (and they had it, games run like shit)
- We want fun over you stupid tech....

It's gonna be fun like hell!

raw
 
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Brigandier

Member
I hate tech demos they never seem to match the reality of the systems. Didn’t Zelda have an awsome tech demo with great lighting and more in that castle with a spider fight?

And while botw released it was no where near the same level of attractiveness

Yeah the Wii U Zelda tech demo was great, BOTW didn't quite match that quality did it lol
 

BlackTron

Member
If Nintendo wanted to easily keep a sizeable portion of the fanbase with a gesture of good will, why not offer a free upgrade to the Switch 2 version of Tears of the Kingdom? Only reason for this not to happen is greed.
OR

If Nintendo wanted to easily keep a sizeable portion of the fanbase with a gesture of selling video games, why not offer a high res, 60FPS Switch 2 version of Tears of the Kingdom? Only reason for this not to happen is not liking money.

Seriously, Nintendo always resells remakes, I don't see why they would change now for this one game, probably the game they stand to resell the most copies of. Don't get me wrong, it makes sense and would be nice, just a strange point to make an exception on their policy.

Lets see with the new management. If it's the same game running at higher settings from a patch that took an edited text file, maybe. If it has better textures and stuff, forget it. No chance in hell.
 

jorgejjvr

Member
You don't need top end hardware to run current gen games. I mean, you have consoles running them (and not to mention XSS is one of them)
Yes and every other day we get a thread or a post on how series s is holding back games or how much devs hate the series s lol
 

jorgejjvr

Member
Switch 2 isn't going to be a portable PS5. It's just going to kick the pants off Switch 1 and punch way above its weight while managing to play many current gen games better than you would have expected with the "handhelds/Nintendo sucks" attitude they've conditioned everyone into with an 8 year old phone chip this whole time. It will have glorious 1p games and not be such a distant step child for 3p. It's not going to be a "top end" beast that runs games at 60FPS with ray tracing at 4k and tons of effects.
So youve played it? Cool, thanks for the insider info, I feel much more certain now

Ps: I hope it's everything you say it will be. The switch has some of my favorite games and they mostly run at 720p 30fps, so you can only really go up from here
 

rsouzadk

Member
If the they can do dlss2 on switch, this will be massive for performance and image quality, regarding updscaling tech. I am all in.
 
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BlackTron

Member
So youve played it? Cool, thanks for the insider info, I feel much more certain now

Ps: I hope it's everything you say it will be. The switch has some of my favorite games and they mostly run at 720p 30fps, so you can only really go up from here

Haha. Everything in my post is really pretty obvious even if you haven't played it. You said it yourself in your postscript.

Switch 1 already has glorious 1p games with ancient hardware. You can only go up from there.

Switch 1 already has forced third party support on ancient hardware. You can only go up from there.

Switch 2 isn't going to play games at 4k60 RT tons of effects, just realistic expectation-checking. This is a tablet under $400.

By the way. Part of the reason Switch used the X1. That's what Nvidia actually had laying around and Nintendo got a deal, so it was a good fit to launch with. Now that Switch is a real business, and they have a vested interest in having decent tech in there, it doesn't make sense to ask Nvidia to reopen manufacturing on 5 year old chips.
 
I'll just set my expectations to be base PS4 level.
I think that ram bandwidth for mobile can't exceed 200GB/s in an affordable setup for Nintendo.
 

Boy bawang

Member
Tough to do with a mobile first chip. Especially given that Nintendo hates selling consoles at a loss & wants to keep it cheap.

If it can run the Matrix demo, even assuming it's scaled down, perhaps devs can make PS5 level games work with some effort. Perhaps it suggests it does have 16 GB.

There's been mobile chips beating a regular PS4 for several years now.

This new switch will be, in terms of raw power compared to it's constitutes, almost exactly in the same position as the og switch was on release. The only difference is that Nintendo has access to DLSS and better RT (pound for pound) than the consoles equipped by AMD.

If you take into account the fact that diminishing returns have got this new generation hard, it's not complicated to realize that the gap between the switch 2 and the PS5 will feel narrower. But Nintendo lite Nvidia aren't breaking the laws of thermodynamics here.
 

K2D

Banned
My only take-away from this is that the more I hear about DLSS 3.5 and ray tracing and it's connotations - the more it sounds like the holy grail of gaming.

For good or for bad..!
 
I’ll believe it when I see and play it. I’m still calling it will achieve PS4 quality visuals with a few tech tricks and maybe, maybe PS4 Pro quality which I think is really pushing it.
 
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Beechos

Member
Dunno. The Steam Deck comes close but isn't quite there. The other handhelds released this year... maybe at laptop power consumption can get a bit faster?
Sure there's a lot of mobile chips that can easily best the ps4. The question will be can nintendo take this chip and make a well rounded system that's also not a monstrosity like the steamdeck with decent battery life for a decent price.
 

Gambit2483

Member
I’ll believe it when I see and play it. I’m still calling it will achieve PS4 quality visuals with a few tech tricks and maybe, maybe PS4 Pro quality which I think is really pushing it.
I mean we already have PS4 era games running on Switch
- Witcher 3
- Nier Automata
- Alien Isolation
- MK11

and that's while using a Tegra X1 which was already dated when Switch launched. I can easily see Switch 2 pulling off PS5 era games, albeit with necessary cutbacks and workarounds.
 

Kataploom

Gold Member
Yes and every other day we get a thread or a post on how series s is holding back games or how much devs hate the series s lol
Yet it runs then without a single issue beyond those that bigger consoles already have. In any case, you still have to deal with PS5 and XSX, Switch 2 won't have any issue most probably.
 
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