Nintendo @ E3 - No Direct, Just Zelda Treehouse Stream

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Council Pop said:
I dunno which 2D Zeldas you're talking about, but surely can't be A Link to the Past, Link's Awakening, Oracle of Seasons/Ages, Minish Cap or A Link Between Worlds- all of which I completed, most at a much younger age, and never got stuck on.

They were challenging, but the learning curve was perfect. But the 3D Zeldas have much more difficult combat- dungeons are a slog because it's just room after room of irritatingly difficult enemies getting in the way while you're trying to solve some unsatisfying and badly signposted environmental puzzle.

I remember getting up to the first dungeon as adult link in OOT, and never being able to get past the ghost Gannon boss. I started playing Wind Waker again and the first boss was solid. Started playing Majora's Mask and the dungeons are just nonsensical and it's impossible to know what parts of the environment you can interact with/set on fire/smash with deku nuts etc. They're just badly constructed puzzle games. Whereas the 2D games are crisp, clear, rewarding and amazingly designed. The two types of Zelda couldn't be more different from one another.
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The 2D games are definitely better designed but that doesn't make them easier, I actually think it allows them to be consistently challenging compared to 3d games which only have short difficulty spikes. 3D combat is more complicated but the enemies usually just let you hit them and tougher enemies and bosses have an easy to figure out pattern. That is my interpretation at least.
 
Mihael Mello Keehl said:
You right but you still took an L in that PS4 neo thread letting the other sis conform you lol. Fact that people said E3 is not for hardware vs NX not showing was enough hypocricy
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Wh-what? Like, there are legitimate differences between revealing an upgrade/revision and revealing a new console, but WHAT!?

ShockingAlberto said:
Alternatively, people could just get over the idea that having a gender toggle for Link in any way harms them.
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Eh... Implementation and how it affects story and characters are still factors. Oversimplifying it like this could be extended into an argument that every game should have a choice of gender, and that's simply not something that would or should ever happen.
 
I don't believe the '100 mini-dungeons' rumour, but I'd hate for it to be true.

It would imply that instead of building it all kinds of intersting gameplay scenarios throughout the overworld, these are relegated to specific dungeon areas you have to find, like the holes in OoT's field or what have you.

What's more, if there are 100 of them, that implies either that they're not long enough to be properly meaty, and are probably 2-3 rooms at most, or alternatively that they ARE large enough to be worthwhile, in which case 100 is way overkill and would take forever to get through.

I'd be far happier with 6-10 major dungeons, 10 or so substantial mini-dungeons, and 50-100 or so puzzle 'rooms' or 'situations' but with those 'rooms' as part of the open world itself, built into it organically.
 
Anybody else think maybe this Link will be a girl? That's right. A girl Link. How about that?

WCt3PK9.png






Since Nintendo is unable to give us a 3D Zelda without sidekicks it would be nice if we could choose our own. Ones that come with their own advantages depending on how the player like to play.

I want a drunken grumpy Goriya to follow me around and toss boomerangs at things.
 
Neoleo2143 said:
Frankly, I doubt they'll be able to create 100 mini dungeons that are interesting unless they go all out with ideas and the kitchen sink which is unlikely to happen because its a Zelda development Cycle and well over half of all ideas get scrapped.

That being said, I do not suspect the 4 big dungeons, frankly, I'm going to guess that they're twice as big as TP dungeons.
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Well Tri Force Heroes (which is top tier Zelda game if multiplayer) technically has 128 mini dungeons (like 2-5 minutes long but you play 4 in a row as one "dungeon") and all of them are quite unique and fun and that was on a much lower budget in a much shorter dev time so I'll be confident that Nintendo can pull it off.
 
Griss said:
I don't believe the '100 mini-dungeons' rumour, but I'd hate for it to be true.

It would imply that instead of building it all kinds of intersting gameplay scenarios throughout the overworld, these are relegated to specific dungeon areas you have to find, like the holes in OoT's field or what have you.

What's more, if there are 100 of them, that implies either that they're not long enough to be properly meaty, and are probably 2-3 rooms at most, or alternatively that they ARE large enough to be worthwhile, in which case 100 is way overkill and would take forever to get through.

I'd be far happier with 6-10 major dungeons, 10 or so substantial mini-dungeons, and 50-100 or so puzzle 'rooms' or 'situations' but with those 'rooms' as part of the open world itself, built into it organically.
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I don't see how this implies what you're saying at all. There could still be plenty of interesting things to do in the overworld in addition to the mini-dungeons.
 
100 mini dungeons doesn't mean they're all the same length or style... I know people hate to hear it, but think about Skyrim. I don't know exactly how many dungeons/interiors there are but they all vary greatly in both size and purpose.

For Zelda I would think that many of these mini dungeons are required for the main quest like the ice cavern, many are related to side quests like the gerudo training grounds, and a few would be simple challenges like some of those ship graveyards from WW or the pit of trials.

Let's not forget that Zelda games have often had many great mini dungeons, many of which don't feel all that different from normal dungeons. Hopefully we do get more than 4 dungeon bosses though.
 
OrbitalBeard said:
I don't see how this implies what you're saying at all.
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If there's that amount of mini-dungeons it implies that that's where the bulk of the gameplay is, unless we're expecting this to be the biggest game of all time, which isn't typically Nintendo's style. 'Dungeon' implies 'not-overworld'. If there's that many I can't see there also being a huge amount of overworld puzzle areas.
 
Griss said:
If there's that amount of mini-dungeons it implies that that's where the bulk of the gameplay is, unless we're expecting this to be the biggest game of all time, which isn't typically Nintendo's style. 'Dungeon' implies 'not-overworld'. If there's that many I can't see there also being a huge amount of overworld puzzle areas.
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I don't think a large number of mini-dungeons implies anything of the sort. A bunch of them could be small puzzle or combat challenges. Some of them could be larger as well, and then you'd have the four main dungeons. That still leaves plenty of room for other content in the overworld.

Now, if you're expecting each of these dungeons to take around 30 minutes to complete or something like that, then sure....but I don't see that being the case.
 
georly said:
I do wish they'd go back to that kind of feeling in dungeons, as well. It felt like you were exploring the dungeon. It's hard to achieve that without it strictly being a maze, though, and tbh mazes are a pretty dull puzzle design. I'd like to see them do it a bit more, make you think spatially a bit more. ALttP had a few good ones. Zelda 1 did, too (know where boss is, know where you are, have map, but no doors to get there, eg). If they can bring it back in a few places and do it well, then i'm down - just don't make me feel like i'm backtracking and getting lost for no reason.
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Yeah, probably harder to do now but those were always cool.
 
Majora was fine with a low "main" dungeon count. It also had a bunch of mini dungeons in the world.

I preferred to replay it over Ocarina because of that. Ocarina has a lot of dungeons but is pretty dead in between all of them
 
OrbitalBeard said:
I don't think a large number of mini-dungeons implies anything of the sort. A bunch of them could be small puzzle or combat challenges. Some of them could be larger as well, and then you'd have the four main dungeons. That still leaves plenty of room for other content in the overworld.

Now, if you're expecting each of these dungeons to take around 30 minutes to complete or something like that, then sure....but I don't see that being the case.
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Well yeah, when they say mini-dungeon I'd expect around 30 minutes or so to complete it, so there's our crossed wires right there.
 
The greatest game of all time had "only" 4 dungeons

If that's the case in Zelda u, I'm not that worried. It just needs the world, side quests and memorable characters to round it all out. And that is quite the tall order.
 
I think the rumored system sounds fine. That's one way to add a lot of content to the overworld as well as being able to provide a more open and nonlinear experience.
4 main dungeons sounds a bit low, maybe 5 or 6, but if there are 100 mini dungeons then I think it would please a lot of people.
If the mini dungeons are optional it would improve the pacing quite dramatically and would remove a big issue people have with modern Zelda games (bloat)
I kind of hope for the main 4 dungeons to be non-linear if it means they can be designed with the previous dungeons in mind (increasing difficulty and being able to design dungeons around multiple items unlike LBW)
 
georly said:
I guess you're right. It was "Zelda Gaiden" for a while, details surfacing august of 99
http://www.ign.com/articles/1999/08/20/first-zelda-gaiden-details-exposed
http://www.ign.com/articles/1999/08/21/more-details-on-zelda-gaiden-surface

We did get SOME screenshots the year before as well:
http://www.ign.com/articles/1999/08/24/eye-on-gaiden

Hands on at space world:
http://www.ign.com/articles/1999/08/27/hands-on-zelda-gaiden

It just wasn't called majora until march the next year, and then finally plopped out in april.

Still August > April is an insane turnaround from 'seeing a screenshot of early footage and early details' to 'It's out now'
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yeah, but that's what happens when the game has 1 year of dev time haha
 
Valjean Lafitte said:
Not exactly. I remember first hearing about Majora's Mask at least 6-8 months prior to it's release. Back then it was being referred to as Mask of Mujula, and there weren't as many screenshots released as when OoT was being made. Ura Zelda was also in development at that time and some of the rumors surrounding that game also became associated with MM, to the point that when it was finally released, I wasn't entirely sure whether Ura had evolved into MM or was cancelled.
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URA means Other. That became OoT Master Quest.

Majora's Mask was called Zelda Gaiden.
 
KingBroly said:
doesn't really change the world or how you play the game.
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If you want a serious discussion about that potential twist I'm all for it. I personally have two theories which could work together actually:

1) Giant monster attacks are a very constant and real thing, and they can actually reshape the world. If a monster attacks a village it can actually destroy houses, after which you or the villagers would need to go about repairing them. Or like the E3 2014 video where the bridge gets destroyed, so that you need to find another way across the river or get it repaired. It would add a layer of strategy when fighting, needing to keep the monster away from destructible things like that.

2) Timeshift Tome: Link's book allows you to see the world where you are but in the past or future, and then allows you to bring that area into the past/future with you in it, a la the Timeshift stones in SS. This adds another incentive to exploration, in which you need to view every area in the world in the past or future- even seemingly empty areas- to uncover every secret. This could work as a dark/twilight/parallel world too, not necessarily time travel.

Bonus 3) As the game and story progress, the entire landscapes undergoes radical changes for some story reason. Maybe the universe is expanding or contracting, I dunno. But the very landscape itself changes drastically over time while hints of the original world can still be seen, and Link has some kind of ability which can fix or otherwise alter the landscape.
 
Angry Chair said:
GameXplain is the one that spread the rumor but other insiders said they were told the same thing.
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Interesting. I loved the dungeons in SS, but there was a bit of rehash going on. Two fire dungeons, two desert ones etc. If they merge 8 dungeons into 4, then put a whole lot of work on the stuff between the dungeons? Sounds great.
 
4 main dungeons seems kind of a waste for such a huge world.

Unless those mini-dungeons aren't that mini. Or those 4 dungeons are massive.
 
Man I can't wait to gallop from those grassy fields to that lava filled area to the north. I want to see spectacle rock that looks like a skull on the map. I want to the the coast and the beaches. I hope you see waves crashing on the coast.
 
Skittzo0413 said:
If you want a serious discussion about that potential twist I'm all for it. I personally have two theories which could work together actually:

1) Giant monster attacks are a very constant and real thing, and they can actually reshape the world. If a monster attacks a village it can actually destroy houses, after which you or the villagers would need to go about repairing them. Or like the E3 2014 video where the bridge gets destroyed, so that you need to find another way across the river or get it repaired. It would add a layer of strategy when fighting, needing to keep the monster away from destructible things like that.

2) Timeshift Tome: Link's book allows you to see the world where you are but in the past or future, and then allows you to bring that area into the past/future with you in it, a la the Timeshift stones in SS. This adds another incentive to exploration, in which you need to view every area in the world in the past or future- even seemingly empty areas- to uncover every secret. This could work as a dark/twilight/parallel world too, not necessarily time travel.

Bonus 3) As the game and story progress, the entire landscapes undergoes radical changes for some story reason. Maybe the universe is expanding or contracting, I dunno. But the very landscape itself changes drastically over time while hints of the original world can still be seen, and Link has some kind of ability which can fix or otherwise alter the landscape.
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Can I have all of this? Please?
 
BY2K said:
4 main dungeons seems kind of a waste for such a huge world.

Unless those mini-dungeons aren't that mini. Or those 4 dungeons are massive.
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I don't think there's any realistic amount of full-size dungeons that wouldn't be a "waste" in a world of that size.

I think doing it this way is the only realistic way to have a lot of dungeons that is sufficient for a world that size
 
I really hope the game ends up looking like that initial E3 reveal, and not like TGA footage.

Every hater will focus on that and say "LOL DOWNGRADE, ZELDA SUX".
 
Skittzo0413 said:
If you want a serious discussion about that potential twist I'm all for it. I personally have two theories which could work together actually:

1) Giant monster attacks are a very constant and real thing, and they can actually reshape the world. If a monster attacks a village it can actually destroy houses, after which you or the villagers would need to go about repairing them. Or like the E3 2014 video where the bridge gets destroyed, so that you need to find another way across the river or get it repaired. It would add a layer of strategy when fighting, needing to keep the monster away from destructible things like that.

2) Timeshift Tome: Link's book allows you to see the world where you are but in the past or future, and then allows you to bring that area into the past/future with you in it, a la the Timeshift stones in SS. This adds another incentive to exploration, in which you need to view every area in the world in the past or future- even seemingly empty areas- to uncover every secret. This could work as a dark/twilight/parallel world too, not necessarily time travel.

Bonus 3) As the game and story progress, the entire landscapes undergoes radical changes for some story reason. Maybe the universe is expanding or contracting, I dunno. But the very landscape itself changes drastically over time while hints of the original world can still be seen, and Link has some kind of ability which can fix or otherwise alter the landscape.
Click to expand...

The first idea is highly possible from what we saw from E3 2014 video. It is also hinted by Miyamoto that player's choice can affect the world. (Source) The other two ideas are neat, too. I would love to see them all in the game.
 
-Horizon- said:
Can I have all of this? Please?
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Someone get me Aonuma's number and an English- Japanese translator, quick!

ReyVGM said:
I really hope the game ends up looking like that initial E3 reveal, and not like TGA footage.

Every hater will focus on that and say "LOL DOWNGRADE, ZELDA SUX".
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They're really touting that E3 2014 footage on this year's E3 site, so I would imagine it looks a good deal similar to that. Otherwise they're kinda setting themselves up to disappoint.

Edit:

Jim_Cacher said:
The first idea is highly possible from what we saw from E3 2014 video. It is also hinted by Miyamoto that player's choice can affect the world. (Source) The other two ideas are neat, too. I would love to see them all in the game.
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Yeah I would think the first one is relatively likely based on Miyamoto's comments in addition to Aonuma's about having threatening monsters roaming the field. I'd say the three ideas are arranged in order of likelihood of appearing in the game, as a happy accident.
 
Me and my bad opinions are here!

Just got out of X-men Apocalypse (Bryan Singer can't direct his way out of a paper bag lmao) and now I'm on line! If anyone here wants to see yours truly, I'm the cutest redhead in line ;)

As for thinking Wind Waker is harder than ZII, ZII's challenge was simple and dexterous. Every time I got my ass kicked, I knew exactly why I screwed up and how to get better. For Wind Waker, the puzzles were so horrendous and poorly designed that I spent hours bashing my head in until I caved and used a guide the entire time.

And I love puzzles (LOVE Silent Hill, Zero Escape, and Phoenix Wright puzzles), I just think Zelda's are awful.

Still here on line though! Kind of ironically but kind of excited. Nah, I'm pretty excited.
 
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