Nintendo First-Party Thread: The Teams, The Games, The Future

This is starting to get detailed for a rumor.

Mario + Rabbids Kingdom Battle" has eight playable characters — including Mario, Luigi, Peach, and Yoshi — and they each have their own sci-fi weapons, laser guns, arm cannons, etc. But you don't control the characters — you control Tuttorio, a small floating dish, to guide them through the worlds. There is also co-op multiplayer.
Click to expand...

https://arcadegirl64.wordpress.com/2017/04/28/qa-4-27-17/
 
I'm thankful Emily has been starting to spill some beans regarding the Rabbids game. All of her reports were basically an oasis in a desert last year and I'm glad she's continuing that, heh. The wait for E3 has been killing me.
 
LegendofLex said:
.- Allowed Eiji Aonuma to stay in charge of the Zelda series even while the series completely missed the open-world demand explosion of the last 10 years, with its average sales slumping while its associated genres soared to unprecedented sales heights
Click to expand...

Oh man this is hilarious. Not only is Miyamoto being thrown under the bus but Aonuma too. And the guy has a TWW avatar hahaha.
 
Polygonal_Sprite said:
Could be there way to reboot Mario Party?
Click to expand...

It would be a great franchise to shift to mobile.

New boards and mini games every few months. Daily/weekly/monthly mini game challenges. Gatcha playable characters(possible Amiibo integration). Boards based on different types of classic board games. Something based on Snakes and Ladders or Jenga for shorter play sessions (might be Shoots and Ladders in the USA), integrated online play/friend play ect.

Then release a Switch complete version every few years that contained every board, character and minigame from the mobile version. After that start again on a Mobile Sequel with fresh Boards, Minigames and Gatcha Characters. Rinse and repeat for the next decade.


Actually now i really want a Jenga based Mario Party mode. Build the typical Jenga tower out of different coloured blocks with each colour representing a different minigame genre/type. Players get coins from competing in minigames ect. The game ends when one player pulls a block and knocks over the tower. (Great for short play sessions) whoever knocks the tower over loses all their coins. The winner is the player left with the most coins left at the end of the game.
 
Polygonal_Sprite said:
This thread is great. So much info I didn't know!

Is the Miyamoto table flipping incident at Retro true or just fan created?
Click to expand...

It's a cultural/language misunderstanding, "flipping over the tea table" is an expression used to describe when a person is showing extreme anger or disapproval.
 
Jo Shishido's Cheeks said:
The Good:
-Instrumental in the formation of video games.
-Continually reinvented, redefined and innovated the form across three decades.
-Formed the codes and conventions of both 2D and 3D gaming.
-Directed and produced some of the greatest games in history.
-Created the biggest franchise in history.

The Bad:
-Suggested a stripping back of narrative for a handheld Paper Mario, a suggestion that was based on fan feedback in Japan!
-Made a dodgy Star Fox game.


Well shit you're right, he's definitely done more harm than good!
Miyamoto still oversees every game Nintendo makes.
He's still there every single day.
He's just chosen to no longer head any development teams.
Other than that, nothing changed. All these things 'Nintendo are suddenly getting so right without Miyamoto in the way' go through Miyamoto!
Click to expand...

I should've never said he's done more harm than good. He's done harm to the Paper Mario series which I've loved from the first game and it upsets me what its become.
 
I find it interesting how often they point out their current focus on multiplayer games. From Kimishima's presentation:

OkMSoBo.png


For Nintendo Switch, the main factor in providing exciting social competitive gaming is its strength as a portable home gaming system. Players can hone their skills by competing against opponents from around the world over the Internet on their TV screen at home. Then they can take Nintendo Switch with them to start a local wireless match anywhere they go. They can even hand a Joy-Con over to another person to start playing competitively together. All three of the titles I have just introduced support multiplayer over the internet as well as local play that users can enjoy anywhere with their families and friends.
Click to expand...
Perhaps they will continue this into the fall with a Smash Bros. port.
 
I'll post it here too.

In the financial documents it still shows Xenoblade Chronicles 2 as a 2017 release for Japan, America and Europe. At E3 we'll know for sure if it's coming this year!
 
Could be 2017 for Japan, 2018 for the rest of us.

Going slightly off topic, does anyone else think the Switch could be quite the collectors console in the future? It seems certain phyiscal games are getting limited runs (BoI launch edition for example) and I wonder if this is a trend that will continue? More so for the indie phyisca releases I guess but Ninty could do limited runs of there digital games like they did with NES remix collection on Wii U
 
Polygonal_Sprite said:
This thread is great. So much info I didn't know! Is the Miyamoto table flipping incident at Retro true or just fan created?
Click to expand...

KtSlime said:
It's a cultural/language misunderstanding, "flipping over the tea table" is an expression used to describe when a person is showing extreme anger or disapproval.
Click to expand...

It's actually a general term for changing things up at a relatively late stage in development, and it may or may not involve expressions of anger:
https://www.nintendo.co.uk/Iwata-As...tor/4-From-5-to-95/4-From-5-to-95-230131.html

Koizumi: Well, there were a lot of times when the things he did made me feel that he had got me, but this time I was actually the one who upended the tea table [12]. But after I did that, Miyamoto-san came up and said to me "Why did you upend it? It was better the way it was", and realigned the plates back on the table.

Iwata: Shigeru Miyamoto clears up the tea table... You often hear of Miyamoto-san helping others to clear up the tea table after he has upended it.

Koizumi: For this game, I tried getting as many plates ready as I could, so I could just throw away those that I didn't need. But Miyamoto-san would see those plates, and would reorganise them, saying "that idea was really good, let's use it here". So it felt like he was clearing the tea table for us. That's actually the reason I used the cook as a metaphor earlier in this interview! (laughs)

Iwata: There are so many cooks who try to order new ingredients when something goes wrong while they're making a game. But with Miyamoto-san, he tries to combine two ingredients that don't work on their own to make a dish that works. He really doesn't put any of the ingredients to waste.

Koizumi: Him doing so was really helpful...

Footnote 12 [on upending the tea table]: This is a reference to the classic Japanese comic and animated series, Hoshi of the Giants. The father in the series once upended the tea table when the family was eating their meal there. Shigeru Miyamoto's working style has been compared to this because of his tendency to make last-minute suggestions that leave everyone else scrambling to implement them before the deadline.
Click to expand...

https://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/stock/meeting/110629qa/02.html
Iwata: ...On the other hand, ideas such as "If we develop a product in the way we initially planned, it will certainly be an enjoyable product" cannot be said for entertainment products. Only after developing the product to some degree and actually touching it, we can notice that "This would be more enjoyable if we made it in this way," or "The fun element of this part is somewhat interrupted by other things." A part of this is known as Mr. Miyamoto's "upending the tea table," but we sometimes request changes in the specifications at the very end of the development stage...
Click to expand...

Also see this post.

I'm guessing that in at least some of these cases, Miyamoto may in fact have been angry. But what about the specific case of Metroid Prime? From the sources I've read, it's not clear:
gdt said:
Yep. But we don't know if he was angry, he just knows what's right and wrong. He shows up, takes a look at some stuff, and says dump all of it, and focus on [Metroid Prime]. Retro employees must've hated him/the decision, but it looks like he was right.
Click to expand...

george_us said:
Odd, I heard the exact opposite in that [Miyamoto] was very polite. I heard that from both a teacher who worked at Retro and a teacher who worked on Shadows of the Empire way back on the N64.
Click to expand...

george_us said:
Strange thing because one of my professors who used to work in the industry kept saying how polite Miyamoto was when he worked with him. I'd love to find out for myself one of these days...
Click to expand...

What seems more clear from the sources I've read is that certain employees at Retro were (quite understandably) angry at Miyamoto, when Miyamoto criticized their games. Miyamoto's criticisms were the aforementioned 'pressure' that Miyamoto applied to Retro to cancel the other games they were working on at the time, and focus solely on the prototype that Miyamoto thought could be turned into Metroid Prime:
http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=16389
Recalled Pacini, "It was kind of disheartening, because we didn't have anything to show, other than some concept art and our 3 -page design documents (Nintendo requires that you be able to explain your idea in 3 pages). And people were going in -- the RPG team, the football team -- and they were saying, 'he hates everything!'"

He added, "And when I went in as part of the car team, we were working on a kind of Twisted Metal game (it wasn't my idea). And the first thing [Miyamoto] said was, ‘why would you put guns on cars? Don't cars crash into each other? Isn't that what they do?'"

"And I said, ‘I agree. I have no idea why we're making this game,'" Concluded Pacini.

Joked Kelbaugh, "Well, in the end, you didn't!"

"That's true," Pacini concurred, "but I really remember speaking to one of the leads coming out of his meeting, the lead on the action-adventure concept, and he actually said, ‘Miyamoto doesn't know what he's talking about. He's ridiculous.'"

Continued Pacini, "I realized that this was a major problem. Because if you can't take criticism of your game ideas, you're in real trouble."

[Interjected] Kelbaugh, "It's alright, he [the Retro employee who can't take criticism] doesn't work with us anymore!"

...Said Pacini, "We used Super Metroid as our kind of Bible. But as we'd been sold on the concept of first-person; we couldn't see how to put the ball into the title. In fact, it was actually on the chopping block for a long time. We thought that concentrating on the exploration through platforming might be good enough."

He continued, "But Miyamoto's first directive was ‘if we don't make the transition between the ball and first-person seamless, then we can't do this game.'"

"It took us a few months to get that correct," added Pacini. "And that was pretty scary, as it was one of the first milestones we had to reach, and thanks to our engineers, we managed to create something that when Miyamoto saw it he said, ‘okay' on the project. That was huge."
Click to expand...
http://www.ign.com/articles/2002/11/15/metroid-prime-roundtable-qa?page=2
Miyamoto: ...Actually, we've been working for about three years on this game. This is the first time we've dealt with a foreign development team to this degree in building a game from scratch. The Retro team members have been working with us with the utmost cooperation. Even though, at the beginning, they did have plans to develop their own game, but we convinced them to build a Metroid title for us and they've been very cooperative for the entire process... I had seen test builds of different projects from the Retro team as long as four years ago. At that time, I thought that in the future this team could probably do a Metroid game for us. That was my first impression. I know that the American people have been eagerly anticipating a new Metroid game...
Click to expand...

Quotes from Dylan Cuthbert and Denis Dyack were linked in previous posts on the last page (see here and here), but a more recent example from 2013, from folks at Next Level Games:
http://iwataasks.nintendo.com/interviews/#/3ds/luigis-mansion-dark-moon/0/2
Iwata: By the way, Miyamoto-san, you visited Next Level Games, didn't you? I think it was twice...

Brian Davis: I remember how that was the only time we wore suits! (laughs)...

Iwata: Did actually meeting Miyamoto-san change your image of him?

Miyamoto: Please, be honest! (laughs)

Brian Davis: Okay. (laughs) At first, I was surprised at how humble he is. At the same time, his sharp observations when evaluating what we were developing were impressive. We had him look at the  spider boss, and I was surprised at how he beat it right away, and, while playing, tossed out comments right and left.

Chad York: It was quite a nerve-wracking experience to collaborate with another company in making a game, but I was incredibly impressed at how Miyamoto-san put everyone at ease and created an atmosphere where everyone could speak freely.

Miyamoto: This is turning into a Miyamoto-praise-fest!

Iwata: Yeah. (laughs)

Miyamoto: But Luigi's in the spotlight this time... So to talk about player controls in Luigi's Mansion: Dark Moon, we remade them more than ten times... Then, when the feeling of the controls changed, I would ask, "How are you programming the data?" and sometimes go inside. I felt like that is something that I was personally involved with to a fair extent this time...

Bryce Holliday: I think that stairway boss was the first upending of the tea table... At first, we were considering a plant boss... But Miyamoto-san said that was too ordinary... Miyamoto-san always asked us if we were enjoying development. The development scene actually had a great atmosphere, so we were able to have a great time as we developed this game. I'm certain that atmosphere is packed into the final product, so I hope people will experience that...
Click to expand...
 
Eolz said:
Yeah, Aonuma even used this slide in a GDC talk...
Click to expand...

Note that Aonuma later added (as mentioned at greater length in another post):
https://web.archive.org/web/2012032...tea-table-is-quite-necessary-for-development/
Nintendo's legendary designer Shigeru Miyamoto has talked numerous times about a process that he refers to as "upending the tea table" in which he essentially turns a development project on its head, forcing the team to radically change certain ideas or features in a game that they probably weren't expecting to alter or throw out. IndustryGamers sat down with Zelda producer Eiji Aonuma back at E3 to discuss his feelings towards this process and what it's like to work with Miyamoto-san when he comes to a development team to shake things up.

Interestingly, Aonuma doesn't get annoyed with the process, even if it means that Zelda features or ideas he liked have to be thrown away.

"Well, back at GDC, when that conversation was presented, I think it painted a picture of Mr. Miyamoto’s role inside the company as coming in and being a really disruptive force in the development process, but I view it a very different way and I think a lot of people do. It’s that his time to come in and flip things on their head is part of the development timeline. It’s an event that happens. It’s almost a ritual in that sense," Aonuma-san explained to us.

He continued, "And it’s a necessary process, because I find that when he offers that feedback, a lot of the time, he points out things that I, myself, was having trouble with and maybe felt that I couldn’t solve or didn’t have a good time for or felt like we didn’t have the time for and he comes in and really gives focus to everything. So I’d really like to reinforce that fact that I don’t view the process that people refer to as 'upending the tea table' as something unpleasant. It’s actually quite necessary and useful."
Click to expand...
 
If Retro's game is Diddy Kong Racing, I will be very disappointed. Switch already has many colorful multiplayer games including Mario Kart as a racing game, it would lead to the exact same problem the Wii U had in 2014, too many sidescrollers.

It just doesn't make a lot of sense too, it would add no diversity to the lineup the Switch has. Either Retro makes a completely new high budget IP that is not a colorful multiplayer experience, or they do a Metroid Prime 4.

Honestly, Diddy Kong Racing would be my worst case scenario. I would gladly take DKTF 2 over this.
 
Aldric said:
Oh man this is hilarious. Not only is Miyamoto being thrown under the bus but Aonuma too. And the guy has a TWW avatar hahaha.
Click to expand...

I get this a lot.

Did you know that it's possible to separate your personal likes/dislikes from your assessment of whether an approach to a franchise is good for the business?

Aonuma's misreading of the market isn't even my opinion; it's a well-documented fact:

On Wind Waker:

Takizawa: Wind Waker 2 would have taken place in a more land-based setting, rather than on the sea, so that we could have Link gallop across the land on a horse. But Link's proportions in Wind Waker weren't very well suited for riding on horseback, he was too short, and an adult version of Toon Link did not seem appropriate either. So, while we were stuck on those problems, we became aware of the greater demand for a more realistic, taller Link. High-budget live-action fantasy movies were also huge at the time, so with all things considered, we decided to have at it. I was on board with the project as art director, and started off by bringing [Yusuke] Nakano on to do the design for Link.
Click to expand...

Remember that they created the Wind Waker style because they wanted a unified style that they could use for the entire series, across both handhelds and consoles. Turns out it didn't even work for a traditional Zelda setting on consoles, and it wasn't what the market wanted anyway! Going to the TP style results in a sales realignment, but then Nintendo goes right back to the Wind Waker style for three of its next games. Ten years after Twilight Princess, and we still haven't gotten another mainline game in its style.

(2011, about Skyward Sword)

http://www.zeldadungeon.net/2011/12...er-interview-talks-skyward-sword-zelda-wii-u/

We decided to simplify the world for this installment because we wanted players to feel more connected to each area, and find more of the secrets that we’ve hidden throughout them. Looking back at Twilight Princess, we felt that its world was too large and too time-consuming to travel through, and that’s what led us to structure Skyward Sword the way we did.

The most challenging part of implementing this new structure was making it so that players could reach their destinations as quickly as possible while still making new discoveries along the way.
Click to expand...

(2014, now about BotW)

http://nintendotoday.com/aonuma-on-linear-zelda/

“The recent Zelda games have been rather linear as I thought players didn’t like getting lost, wondering what to do, or where to go. However, I’ve come to question this ‘traditional’ approach as I felt that we couldn’t gain the sense of wonder that existed in the original Legend of Zelda, in which you made unexpected encounters and where what used to be impossible would suddenly become possible.

“We will, of course, continue to question and reconsider the approaches we have taken in the past without any reservations.”
Click to expand...

(2016)

http://www.polygon.com/platform/amp...the-wild-skyward-sword-e3-2016-wii-u-nintendo

A lot of the fans that played Skyward Sword said that they were really bummed out that they couldn’t find the hidden element of the game. A lot of the users, when they looked at the map, they said, ‘OK, there’s these places I can go, but how come I can’t go over here?

“A lot of Zelda fans are the type of people that really like to explore those hidden elements. I realized that creating this bigger world and letting them freely play may be the solution to all of that.
’
Click to expand...
 
Schopenhauerian has done it again. Absolutely phenomenal work!

I love reading these posts, they are so informative and usually should be enough to put stop to nonsense.
 
dampflokfreund said:
If Retro's game is Diddy Kong Racing, I will be very disappointed. Switch already has many colorful multiplayer games including Mario Kart as a racing game, it would lead to the exact same problem the Wii U had in 2014, too many sidescrollers.

It just doesn't make a lot of sense too, it would add no diversity to the lineup the Switch has. Either Retro makes a completely new high budget IP that is not a colorful multiplayer experience, or they do a Metroid Prime 4.

Honestly, Diddy Kong Racing would be my worst case scenario. I would gladly take DKTF 2 over this.
Click to expand...

I really do think it's Diddy Kong Racing. One Mario Kart game for Switch. The latest rumor saying Retro is working on a something Donkey Kong related.

I know it sucks because I'd rather them work on a much bigger title, but the big thing about DKR that people bring up is it had a the adventure mode. I hope they do it justice and make it really grand. A great single player.

Also, Retro helped made tracks for Mario Kart 7. I could see that as them getting experience AND Diddy is still not in Mario Kart 8 Deluxe.

To recap

-Latest rumor from here said Retro is working on something DK related
-DK character missing from Mario Kart 8 Deluxe still
-Retro made the retro tracks for Mario Kart 7 (this could be seen as practice)
-Retro brings back IPs that haven't been around for awhile. They brought Metroid back and DKC. So Diddy Kong Racing fits that.
-Nintendo may want a Racing game with a good single player mode and to put their smaller characters in.
 
I will gladly eat crow if Retro turns out to be doing a badass project.

But good lord, they are being wasted right now. They made a Greatest-of-All-Time level game with Metroid Prime, and epic games of that scale are what they need to be doing. DK Returns ant Tropical Freeze were good, yes, but it's such a waste of talent. I really hope they're being commissioned for some big-budget, risky title because they've proven they have the chops to do it. Leave the platformers for the other teams, Retro has a unique nucleus and I think it's a disservice to them and their fans to stick to a simpler genre.
 
maxcriden said:
IIRC Liam Robertson originally reported it was similar to an XCOM-style game, I think those are considered Tactical RPGs but I haven't played them. But maybe the same idea as an SRPG in the way Emily's article mentions?
Click to expand...

I believe he did say that. I've never played a Tactical RPG in my life either lol.
 
Etrian Oddity said:
I will gladly eat crow if Retro turns out to be doing a badass project.

But good lord, they are being wasted right now. They made a Greatest-of-All-Time level game with Metroid Prime, and epic games of that scale are what they need to be doing. DK Returns ant Tropical Freeze were good, yes, but it's such a waste of talent. I really hope they're being commissioned for some big-budget, risky title because they've proven they have the chops to do it. Leave the platformers for the other teams, Retro has a unique nucleus and I think it's a disservice to them and their fans to stick to a simpler genre.
Click to expand...
DKCR and DKCTF are GOAT-level games brah.
 
Looking over the list in OP makes me confident Nintendo will deliver on first party games every couple of months over the next few years for the Switch. Just a case of making sure they have a BIG title every quarter for the people who might overlook smaller offerings as well as for the bigger media campaigns those titles will bring.

Looking forward to hearing about what Good Feel do next. A top down Yarn Zelda would be great!
 
maxcriden said:
IIRC Liam Robertson originally reported it was similar to an XCOM-style game, I think those are considered Tactical RPGs but I haven't played them. But maybe the same idea as an SRPG in the way Emily's article mentions?
Click to expand...

XCOM is an SRPG, just fyi :) (metal level strategy layer on top of tactical turn-based combat scenarios)

Fire Emblem/Advance Wars are Tactics RPGs ... I guess you can argue for the relationship/affinity stuff being a strategy layer, too, now)

Dark Cloud said:
I believe he did say that. I've never played a Tactical RPG in my life either lol.
Click to expand...

You should, they're fun. :D

Might I recommend the excellent Code Name S.T.E.A.M.!
 
Etrian Oddity said:
I will gladly eat crow if Retro turns out to be doing a badass project.

But good lord, they are being wasted right now. They made a Greatest-of-All-Time level game with Metroid Prime, and epic games of that scale are what they need to be doing. DK Returns ant Tropical Freeze were good, yes, but it's such a waste of talent. I really hope they're being commissioned for some big-budget, risky title because they've proven they have the chops to do it. Leave the platformers for the other teams, Retro has a unique nucleus and I think it's a disservice to them and their fans to stick to a simpler genre.
Click to expand...

If you are basing the idea of that nucleus and chops on the Prime titles, well all the senior staff is gone from those games.

People keep clamoring for Retro to do some big AAA title, but perhaps the people there now, the current nucleus of senior staff are actually more suited and prefer to work on things like 2D platformers and properties like Donkey Kong.
 
Etrian Oddity said:
I will gladly eat crow if Retro turns out to be doing a badass project.

But good lord, they are being wasted right now. They made a Greatest-of-All-Time level game with Metroid Prime, and epic games of that scale are what they need to be doing. DK Returns ant Tropical Freeze were good, yes, but it's such a waste of talent. I really hope they're being commissioned for some big-budget, risky title because they've proven they have the chops to do it. Leave the platformers for the other teams, Retro has a unique nucleus and I think it's a disservice to them and their fans to stick to a simpler genre.
Click to expand...

The DKCR games are greatest-of-all-time level 2D platformer.

It might not be the genre you like, but they are far from wasted.
 
Neiteio said:
Wait, what's this about Retro doing Diddy Kong Racing 2?
Click to expand...

nothing worth taking serious at this point. :)

everything you ever read about Retro is just wishful thinking (or someone's nightmare).

train your brain to associate Retro with Barbecue and you'll be happier for it.
 
I don't buy any rumor about Retro these days. The freaking KGB couldn't get someone from that studio to talk about what they're up to.

I'll gladly take a new DKR, and Diddy still not being in Mario Kart 8 Deluxe does leave that door open potentially. I think DKR64 is better than MK64 so I've got a lot of love for it.

I'd also take another Country game, as DKC:TF is my favorite Wii U game by a mile. Plus it would be fun to see the salt.

Metroid Prime 4 is my biggest hope though. Prime 1 and 2 are my favorite games ever made. I'd love to see what the current team at Retro could do with it. Corruption to me shows that the team was getting bored with it, but now most of that team is gone, but enough are left I would guess to know how to make another one. And DKC:TF shows they are still God-tier at level design.

Then there's something like a new IP or one they've never worked on before, and I'd be down for that too. All I know is I need Retro's game right the fuck now!
 
Diddy Kong Racing would be extremely disappointing given we already have Mario Kart on the Switch. It makes no sense. They'd be directly competing against each other. I understand if this is true that Retro would have been making this long before MK8 Deluxe became a reality, but I still question why they would port Kart if DKR was on the horizon.

Metroid Prime, a reboot of a dormant Nintendo IP (Kid Icarus, Golden Sun), or something new altogether, please.
 
If the Switch really is the successor to both the Wii U AND 3DS, then I really hope all of the handheld franchises are making the jump to the Switch as well. 3D Land, and A Link Between Worlds, in particular, were two of my favorite games for any system.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

  • Poll
So, what's the best first-party PS5 game at the moment?
Community Poll  2 3 4 5
218
2K
Fess replied
Do you think going multiplatform impacts the prestige/stature of Sony first party games?
2 3
129
2K
ResetEraVetVIP replied
Returnal to the Party
2
80
152
Arsic replied
With the new Donkey Kong game, Nintendo now has 13 active first-party franchises
2 3
123
3K
Kotaro replied
Ex-Nintendo Staff Reveal the Secret ‘Nintendo Ninja’ Leak Investigation Team Is Real
8
215
Jeff Spicoli replied
Top Bottom