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[Matt]

NPD numbers from Cream.

Japanese numbers from media create.

Europe numbers from Bruno.

The 2 million was official PR from Sony.

As for the bolded, we don't know either way, you ruled it out because you made an incorrect statement that only those three markets matter, when RotW can be as big as Europe or the US, depending on what type of game it is, & evidently, Bloodborne was one of them.

I...would be very surprised if Bloodborne sold 900k copies outside of the 3 main markets. I'll have to look into that.

Either way, none of that has anything to do with if Adobe was right about MGSV pulling in $179 million within 24 hours. That seems to be impossible now.

 

[watdaeff4]

Yep but he still got the wrong month

True, my bad

 

[DriftingSpirit]

So, have we pinpointed the LTD gap between PS4 and X1?

 

[Putty]

Yep but he still got the wrong month

Bingo.

 

[Ryng_tolu]

NPD numbers from Cream.

Japanese numbers from media create.

Europe numbers from Bruno.

The 2 million was official PR from Sony.

As for the bolded, we don't know either way, you ruled it out because you made an incorrect statement that only those three markets matter, when RotW can be as big as Europe or the US, depending on what type of game it is, & evidently, Bloodborne was one of them.

2 million was including digital, and are by half of September.

Bloodbrone sales we know:

USA: 473,000 ( April 2015; retail only)
EU: 406,000 ( June 2015; retail only)
JP: 200,000 ( April 2015; retail only)

If we including digital, and others months of sales, it's definive over 1.1 million in JP+US+EU.

 

[Alo0oy]

I...would be very surprised if Bloodborne sold 900k copies outside of the 3 main markets. I'll have to look into that.

Either way, none of that has anything to do with if Adobe was right about MGSV pulling in $179 million within 24 hours. That seems to be impossible now.

It didn't sell 900k in those territories because digital sales in the 3 main ones weren't counted, but it likely did sell ~400k-500k, which is as good as the US & Europe at retail.

& You're basing your Adobe argument without having the numbers from Europe, why? Europe is much much bigger for Metal Gear than the US, that's why they got a bundle & the US didn't. Metal Gear Solid 4 sold over 4 million in its first month, & less than 1 million were from the US.

 

[Primethius]

I...would be very surprised if Bloodborne sold 900k copies outside of the 3 main markets. I'll have to look into that.

Either way, none of that has anything to do with if Adobe was right about MGSV pulling in $179 million within 24 hours. That seems to be impossible now.

But it... does?

MGSV is at about 2 million with just US/Japan/Steam. That's not including digital sales from the US/Japan.

Take the loss and move on.

 

[bombshell]

Nah, it came out in September! As an Uncharted veteran I'm not sure if I like the Nathan Drake redesign though.

Admit it, you thought the Uncharted collection had released without charting

 

[Matt]

It didn't sell 900k in those territories because digital sales in the 3 main ones weren't counted, but it likely did sell ~400k-500k, which is as good as the US & Europe at retail.

Well, that's absolutely not what you said originally, but ok.

IYou're basing your Adobe argument without having the numbers from Europe, why? Europe is much much bigger for Metal Gear than the US, that's why they got a bundle & the US didn't. Metal Gear Solid 4 sold over 4 million in its first month, & less than 1 million were from the US.

You could be right. I doubt it, but it's possible. I guess we'll see.

 

[SpotAnime]

Really Forza 6 didnt even make top ten for september? Maybe the franchise is suffering from oversaturation ever since it became annual with the Horizon series.

I think the sim market might be a tougher nut to crack. I know I'll get GT sales figures quoted in response, but my bet is the general Xbox One consumer is more interested in a Forizon (I did that on purpose) game than a mainline Forza sim release.

 

[Saty]

But it... does?

MGSV is at about 2 million with just US/Japan/Steam. That's not including digital sales from the US/Japan.

Take the loss and move on.

The report was saying they made that much money on the first day of sale. Numbers you are quoting are LTDS. US with a full month of September, Steam up to this day.

 

[Matt]

But it... does?

MGSV is at about 2 million with just US/Japan/Steam. That's not including digital sales from the US/Japan.

Take the loss and move on.

MGSV was not at 2 million in 24 hours between US, Japan, and Steam. I really think you are misunderstanding the discussion.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

Wii U resurrection begins here.

It may have taken a few years, but it's all golden skies from here on out.

 

[Graphics Horse]

AFAIAC All Adobe did was take Konami's already stated 3 million launch figure and multiply it by $59.99.
They should stick to photoshop

 

[Primethius]

MGSV was not at 2 million in 24 hours between US, Japan, and Steam. I really think you are misunderstanding the discussion.

The report was saying they made that much money on the first day of sale. Numbers you are quoting are LTDS. US with a full month of September, Steam up to this day.

Yes, that's right. But the Adobe number was a monetary number, not a sales number. So, unless I'm missing something, given the sales data we have now (and in some instances), sales data we had back then, I'm not sure why the Adobe number is so hard to believe?

 

[Cripshay]

And where did the Bloodborne info come from? That doesn't seem right at all.

The 'over 2 million sold' bit?
http://blog.us.playstation.com/2015/09/15/bloodborne-expansion-the-old-hunters-out-november-24th/

 

[Kill3r7]

I think the sim market might be a tougher nut to crack. I know I'll get GT sales figures quoted in response, but my bet is the general Xbox One consumer is more interested in a Forizon (I did that on purpose) game than a mainline Forza sim release.

Or you know, the US market maybe just doesn't care about racing games sans MK. If you have to go back to Forza 4 to find a racing game that charted you know the genre is not doing too well. GT7 is the last hope for racing games in the US.

 

[Alo0oy]

Well, that's absolutely not what you said originally, but ok.

I didn't say it sold 900k in those territories, I said Bloodborne sold 1.1 million in the three main markets, digital sales are likely around ~400k across all three markets, leaving approximately ~500k for the RotW.

You could be right. I doubt it, but it's possible. I guess we'll see.

Another example is Driveclub, it sold 45k on NPD in its debut month, but 2 million WW. Or GT5, 2.8 million in the US but 6.8 million in Europe.

The US & Europe are different markets with different tastes, you can't expect similar sales between the two, even individual European markets vary, France & Germany love their Japanese games for example, but the UK is mini-US with a bigger emphasis on FIFA instead of Madden.

 

[Matt]

The 'over 2 million sold' bit?
http://blog.us.playstation.com/2015/09/15/bloodborne-expansion-the-old-hunters-out-november-24th/

No, I was referring to the idea that BB sold 900K copies outside NA, Japan, and Europe.

 

[lightning2k3]

MGSV was not at 2 million in 24 hours between US, Japan, and Steam. I really think you are misunderstanding the discussion.

With collectors editions and all the day one editions it's possible that the ARPU is above 60 bucks. I think the adobe number was just revenue, you can't extract numbers from that.

 

[Alo0oy]

With collectors editions and all the day one editions it's possible that the ARPU is above 60 bucks. I think the adobe number was just revenue, you can't extract numbers from that.

And microtransations.

 

[erawsd]

The 'over 2 million sold' bit?
http://blog.us.playstation.com/2015/09/15/bloodborne-expansion-the-old-hunters-out-november-24th/

I think hes referring to the part where 1.1m of that 2m is "rotw", which seems very unlikely.

 

[Matt]

I didn't say it sold 900k in those territories, I said Bloodborne sold 1.1 million in the three main markets, digital sales are likely around ~400k across all three markets, leaving approximately ~500k for the RotW.

Well you only started talking about digital sales after the fact, but ok, lets just say that was a miscommunication.

Another example is Driveclub, it sold 45k on NPD in its debut month, but 2 million WW. Or GT5, 2.8 million in the US but 6.8 million in Europe.

The US & Europe are different markets with different tastes, you can't expect similar sales between the two, even individual European markets vary, France & Germany love their Japanese games for example, but the UK is mini-US with a bigger emphasis on FIFA instead of Madden.

I'm well aware. None of this is related to my point about the sales required in the first 24 hours. But like I said, you're right, we don't really know yet, so we will see.

 

[test_account]

We don't know exact sales for many of those but we saw that publishers kept releasing game after game (e.g. Atelier, Nippon Ichi stuffs, Compile Heart) meaning that the market was still alive.

Yeah, that is true. I wish we had more info regarding expectations of games, it would be interesting to know Even in a good overall market, games can still underperform in terms of what was expected, but its sometimes hard to know unfortnately.

 

[lightning2k3]

Regardless, Matt works in the industry and had very knowledgeable insight into these numbers and probably access to non public information so I am inclined to believe him on this.

 

[Alo0oy]

Well you only started talking about digital sales after the fact, but ok, lets just say that was a miscommunication.

Cheers.

I'm well aware. None of this is related to my point about the sales required in the first 24 hours. But like I said, you're right, we don't really know yet, so we will see.

You said it's impossible, basing it on NPD, & we've known for a long time that certain franchises do significantly better in Europe than the US. NPD numbers only do one thing = tell you the sales numbers in the US, you cannot use any worldwide sales argument based on US sales alone.

 

[Matt]

You said it's impossible, basing it on NPD, & we've known for a long time that certain franchises do significantly better in Europe than the US. NPD numbers only do one thing = tell you the sales numbers in the US, you cannot use any worldwide sales argument based on US sales alone.

I mean, I was basing it on US, Japan, Steam, and some inklings of knowledge of European sales, but OK. I don't know for sure.

 

[Kaibutsu]

where is forza 6 ?

That is actually what i'm most surprised at. Has Forza fatigue finally killed sales? I don't know about everyone else but I don't need a new Forza game every year and while Horizon 2 was really good, 5 killed the mainline series for me

 

[Alo0oy]

I mean, I was basing it on US, Japan, Steam, and some knowledge of European sales, but OK.

The only knowledge we have from Europe is that it sold ~170k in the UK in its debut week, & ~100k in France, those are only two markets. Germany & Italy are pretty big markets too, Spain & the rest of Europe add up to significant numbers. Not to mention Asia, South America, & The Middle East.

 

[lightning2k3]

That is actually what i'm most surprised at. Has Forza fatigue finally killed sales? I don't know about everyone else but I don't need a new Forza game every year and while Horizon 2 was really good, 5 killed the mainline series for me

The US market is not hospitable to teaching hands right now. Driveclub did poorly last year as did does horizons 2 project cars and the crew.

The only knowledge we have from Europe is that it sold ~170k in the UK in its debut week, & ~100k in France, those are only two markets. Germany & Italy are pretty big markets too, Spain & the rest of Europe add up to significant numbers. Not to mention Asia, South America, & The Middle East.

That's the only knowledge you have/is public but it doesn't mean that's the only knowledge out there. Matt might be in a position to know more.

 

[Bgamer90]

That is actually what i'm most surprised at. Has Forza fatigue finally killed sales? I don't know about everyone else but I don't need a new Forza game every year and while Horizon 2 was really good, 5 killed the mainline series for me

As others have stated, the sim racing genre simply isn't big in the U.S. like it was (say) 10 years ago.

Forza 6 more than likely would have got similar results no matter when it released this current gen due to its predecessor also being for the same system (and many basic racing fans being satisfied with one sim racer per gen).

 

[Cripshay]

No, I was referring to the idea that BB sold 900K copies outside NA, Japan, and Europe.

Ah, got it. Just thought you needed a source.

 

[Mister Megative]

So I take it there's no reliable sales figures.

 

[Paganmoon]

The only knowledge we have from Europe is that it sold ~170k in the UK in its debut week, & ~100k in France, those are only two markets. Germany & Italy are pretty big markets too, Spain & the rest of Europe add up to significant numbers. Not to mention Asia, South America, & The Middle East.

No, I was referring to the idea that BB sold 900K copies outside NA, Japan, and Europe.

Think it's extrapolated from knowing it sold 2 million WW, knowing approximately how much it sold in NA through NPD, Japan, through Media create, and knowing how much it sold in Europe in the first 6 months from this thread:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1113089&highlight=report

Leaving about 900k for RotW out of the 2 million sold WW.

 

[Javin98]

So I take it there's no reliable sales figures.

This is what I said two pages ago and we still don't have an answer:

We actually tried asking cream several times earlier, but never got a reply. The problem is there are currently two estimations and both contradict some of info we have. If the Wii U really sold 85K, that would mean the gap between the PS4 and XB1 is 59K, like in your calculations. However, according to cream, the cumulative gap between the two right now is 862K. In the August NPD, the gap was ~810K, so that would mean an increase of only 52K. That is a contradiction right there. Also, Zhuge said ~550K for both combined.

On the other hand, if we take cream and Zhuge's info, the PS4 sold 300K and the XB1 sold 248K, with the Wii U selling 75K. Now this contradicts Nintendo's statement of "110% increase", which should be 85K-89K. The problem is we don't know which estimation is the more accurate one.

 

[lightning2k3]

Think it's extrapolated from knowing it sold 2 million WW, knowing approximately how much it sold in NA through NPD, Japan, through Media create, and knowing how much it sold in Europe in the first 6 months from this thread:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1113089&highlight=report

Leaving about 900k for RotW out of the 2 million sold WW.

That's incorrect because the 2 million includes digital sales whereas media create npd and gfk don't track digital.

 

[Curufinwe]

That's true but they can't be making money on PES either with those paltry numbers. I guess PES possibly loses less money than MGS though...?

How can you assume that without knowing Japanese and European sales numbers?

If they were losing money on PES they would stop making it.

 

[SMOK3Y]

RotW would mean outside of NA, Japan, and Europe.

I know that (it actually means, you know RotW not just Japan & Europe...) why does RotW not matter?

 

[sörine]

I didn't say it sold 900k in those territories, I said Bloodborne sold 1.1 million in the three main markets, digital sales are likely around ~400k across all three markets, leaving approximately ~500k for the RotW

Digital sales likely have to be higher given BB was a free download included with every PS4 sale in Japan for a the last several months before the MGSV bundle. I think you're still overshooting ROW a bit.

 

[Raist]

How can you assume that without knowing Japanese and European sales numbers?

If they were losing money on PES they would stop making it.

Well, in tanked in europe as well. LTD in Japan is <150k.

 

[Chobel]

I know that (it actually means, you know RotW not just Japan & Europe...) why does RotW not matter?

He's taking about first day sales, so I guess he's not wrong with that assumption.

 

[FDC1]

So, have we pinpointed the LTD gap between PS4 and X1?

862k according to creamsugar

 

[Curufinwe]

Why on earth are PSN gift cards up so high up on the list? Do most people who don't want to put their CC info on PSN buy these?

That's what I do.

 

[SMOK3Y]

He's taking about first day sales, so I guess he's not wrong with that assumption.

Ahh ok missed that

 

[Paganmoon]

That's incorrect because the 2 million includes digital sales whereas media create npd and gfk don't track digital.

~400k in Europe from the report thread, ~600k in US (from memory here, can't find the numbers, other than 389k in March), 129k in Japan from last numbers in media create, but lets say with the free promo and all 200k in Japan.

~1.2 million for Japan, US, Europe, not including Digital.

of the first million sold WW 150k was digital according to Sony, so say 15% WW digital sales, so 300k digital out of 2 million...

so lets say of the 1.2 million 15% can be added as digital. which gives about 1.38million. leaving roughly 600k for ROTW (including digital),

So not 900k then, around 600k, based on assumptions and numbers that might not be correct.

 

[Vegito]

October will be interesting. I wonder how much halo 5 will increase xbox one sales. Not much Id guess since anyone who wanted an x1 for halo 5 would have got one already. There might be a slight bump but not much.

 

[djplaeskool]

I'm assuming Gen 8 hardware being down YoY is the Destiny launch effect

 

[Primethius]

October will be interesting. I wonder how much halo 5 will increase xbox one sales. Not much Id guess since anyone who wanted an x1 for halo 5 would have got one already. There might be a slight bump but not much.

Nah. Halo 5's going to be massive. Not sure if it'll be enough to beat a PS4 price cut (I think it will) but console sales wise, it's going to be massive.

It should easily be able to clear the 400k mark at the very least.

 

[DriftingSpirit]

I'm assuming Gen 8 hardware being down YoY is the Destiny launch effect

At the very least, Destiny played a significant role in everything being down YoY. MGS doesn't seem to be as big as I (and others) expected either.

 

[Meier]

PS4 wins again, gg Sony.

Uncharted Collection didn't chart though.

You might say...it went Uncharted.