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Official April NBA Thread - Playoffs coming sooooooon!

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Loki

Count of Concision
BatiGOOOOOOL said:
A MVP has to be a difference maker for his team in every aspect of the game, on and off the court.

Barkley wasn't. Magic wasn't. I'm sure if I go back through the list of past MVP's, I'd find some pretty glaring deficiencies in one area or another. So I don't think the "Nash doesn't deserve it because he plays no D" argument holds much water. Like I said, it's not like he's getting lit up every night. That said, I don't think he should get it over Shaq.
 
Loki said:
Barkley wasn't. Magic wasn't. I'm sure if I go back through the list of past MVP's, I'd find some pretty glaring deficiencies in one area or another. So I don't think the "Nash doesn't deserve it because he plays no D" argument holds much water. Like I said, it's not like he's getting lit up every night. That said, I don't think he should get it over Shaq.

How were they not? They might have not been very good defenders as you say, but they were not a liability on any aspect of the game. You could count on them to perform at a MVP level, be it defensively or offensively, when a game was on the line.
 

Cloudy

Banned
OK then, look at the players' former teams and how are they doing without them?

Dallas actually replaced Nash with a starting caliber PG. The Lakers didn't do the same with Shaq. The better indicator is to see how their CURRENT teams do with and without them. The Heat can beat most East teams without Shaq but the Suns lost to horrible teams without Nash. Their whole gameplan is just crap without him....
 

DMczaf

Member
Michael Jordan interview

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/draft/2005-04-14-jordan-qa_x.htm?csp=34

Q: What did you envision when you rolled out a national high school all-star game?

A: "I envisioned establishing a prestigious event that would showcase the best youth basketball has to offer. I played in a number of all-star games my senior year, which are memories I've held with me my whole life. I wanted to recreate that type of experience for these players and also add in my own flair with the Jordan brand and the resources we have that can make this a great event."

Q: Are you planning on adding a girls' game in the near future?

A: "We are always looking for ways to expand the event, but there are no current plans to add a girls' game."

Q: Your son plays high school ball in Chicago. What's it like attending his games? Do he or his teammates seek you out for advice?

A: "It is nerve-wracking watching my kids' games. I want him and his team to do well. But they never seek my advice."

Q: The high school game has come a long way since the early 1980s when you played. What have you noticed about the teen players of the 21st century?

A: "The players today reflect how much the game has evolved and changed both in style and culture. Summer ball, AAU and the boom of interest in high school sports has had an impact on these players. The game now has a wider appeal to a larger market."

Q: Do you feel there should be a minimum age to play in the NBA?

A: "I think school is very important and I personally had a great experience at North Carolina, which helped shape me as a basketball player and a person. Every once in a while, you will have a player who can make the jump and have an immediate impact on the professional level, but most of the players who come out would absolutely benefit from going to college."

Q: With no age limit, do you feel that players skipping college hurt themselves, the college game or the NBA?

A: "The college game will always be great, but you would definitely have more star power and appeal if the players didn't make the jump. It's hard to say if the NBA is hurt by the influx of younger players, but it's definitely impacted the league. Veteran role players are being replaced by extremely talented teenagers. This is not necessarily bad, but a stark change compared to what it was like a couple years ago."

Q: The Jordan Game is gaining national momentum. Any changes that will make this the top game?

A: "This event is already the most prestigious high school all-star game in the country. We not only feature two premier all-star games, but also bring in activities to make it a week-long experience. From sightseeing to private events like a dinner at my restaurant to visits with entertainers and celebrities, we truly want to enrich these players' lives not only through basketball but through what the Jordan brand and New York City has to offer.

"Moving the game to NYC, the Mecca of the basketball world, and playing at Madison Square Garden will help further establish the Jordan Classic in the hearts and minds of basketball fans, as well as the brand in such an influential market. Looking towards the future, this will be the top game."

Q: What's the best advice you can impart to a high school player? How about the players who participate in your game?

"Stay focused and dedicated. The game has its ups and downs, but you can never lose focus of your individual goals and you can't let yourself be beat because of lack of effort."

Q: Did you have a favorite moment playing in high school?

A: "Getting to play my first varsity game after getting cut the previous year, along with getting accepted at the University of North Carolina."

Q: Has the three-point shot hurt the game of basketball?

A: "No."

full_kwame.jpg


"Fuck you, Michael"
 

Loki

Count of Concision
BatiGOOOOOOL said:
How were they not? They might have not been very good defenders as you say, but they were not a liability on any aspect of the game. You could count on them to perform at a MVP level, be it defensively or offensively, when a game was on the line.

You said that an MVP has to be "a difference maker in every aspect of the game"; I stated that Magic and Barkley were NOT difference makers on the defensive end, which is the same area that Nash takes hits on. Nash is about as good an individual defender as Magic and Barkley, though Magic got quite a few steals in his day and Barkley blocked quite a few shots, so they were better off the ball.


Further, if nash is such a "liability", why haven't his assignments put up huge #'s every game? Yes, he's on the lower rung of NBA defenders, but let's not exaggerate things just to make a point...


My main argument is that it's silly to expect a player to have an impact on EVERY area of the game as the criteria for selecting him as MVP. Yes, if a guy averaged 23 TO's/game, or his man went off for 25+ every night, then that would change things-- but Nash isn't quite as bad as that imo. Bad, yes. That bad, so as to preclude him from MVP consideration? Nah.


I still don't think he should get it, though, btw. :D
 

AirBrian

Member
Cloudy said:
Dallas actually replaced Nash with a starting caliber PG. The Lakers didn't do the same with Shaq. The better indicator is to see how their CURRENT teams do with and without them. The Heat can beat most East teams without Shaq but the Suns lost to horrible teams without Nash. Their whole gameplan is just crap without him....
You just validated my point. :D Who would they get that could fill Shaq's shoes (outside of Duncan)? Nash was replaceable; Shaq was not.

Also, the second time Nash was out for a few games, the Suns played pretty well and won most of them.

EDIT: Anyhow, I'd love to see Nash win it, but I just don't think he deserves it over Shaq (and probably even Duncan).
 
He has to be included in the MVP candidates list, just because of how short it is. TD won't get it because of his injuries, Lebron because his team has fallen off, KG because of his team's record, just like Kobe, etc. It's pretty much a 2-man list.

And his opponents don't need to put up huge numbers for anyone to see how bad of a defender he is. The way PGs blow by him is laughable. Hell, he'd rather be waiting for the outlet pass, so he can get a headstart on the fastbreak, instead of guarding his man.

And maybe I mis-worded what I was saying about being a difference maker on every aspect. You don't need to be a difference maker in every little thing, but at least help your team, one way or another. Not letting your teammates carry the whole burden by themselves.

Plus, like AirBrian said, Nash is incapable of taking over games. In fact, he is known for fading away. When have you truly see him put a team on his shoulders and will it to voctory? Rarely, if ever. That is not MVP material IMO. Guys like Shaq, TD or KG can put the opponent team on a chokehold all by themselves. That's why they're the best three players in the league.
 

Loki

Count of Concision
I agree that Shaq and TD should get the MVP before Nash--hell, I'd even say KG if his team did a bit better this year. But, as you said, he has to be considered on that short list, and that's all I've been saying. :)
 
Well, I never said he shouldn't be considered. I just said I would never give the award to a player like him.

Wait, why are we arguing then? :lol
 

Loki

Count of Concision
BatiGOOOOOOL said:
Well, I never said he shouldn't be considered. I just said I would never give the award to a player like him.

Wait, why are we arguing then? :lol

Because I'm procrastinating. :D
 

Cloudy

Banned
Who would they get that could fill Shaq's shoes

Pretty much any other starting center! Odom averages 4 more rebounds than any of the Lakers "bigs" and Kobe and Caron are less than 1 rebound behind the starting center?!?!? WTF >_<
 

DMczaf

Member
Pretty much any other starting center! Odom averages 4 more rebounds than any of the Lakers "bigs" and Kobe and Caron are less than 1 rebound behind the starting center?!?!? WTF >_<

You actually think Shaq only effects stats? :lol :lol Holy crap...
 

AirBrian

Member
Loki said:
I agree that Shaq and TD should get the MVP before Nash--hell, I'd even say KG if his team did a bit better this year. But, as you said, he has to be considered on that short list, and that's all I've been saying. :)
BatiGOOOOOOL said:
Well, I never said he shouldn't be considered. I just said I would never give the award to a player like him.

Wait, why are we arguing then? :lol
:lol :lol

That's why I stopped, we're just debating to debate (except for maybe Konex). :)

Anyhow, my short list would be:

Shaq
Duncan
Nash
Dirk

And BatiGOOOOOOL, those pics are great! I love TNT. :lol :lol
 

Pimpwerx

Member
Loki said:
Barkley wasn't. Magic wasn't. I'm sure if I go back through the list of past MVP's, I'd find some pretty glaring deficiencies in one area or another. So I don't think the "Nash doesn't deserve it because he plays no D" argument holds much water. Like I said, it's not like he's getting lit up every night. That said, I don't think he should get it over Shaq.
Lies lies, all damn lies. Didn't Magic even play center at one point in a Final to lead the Lakers to victory? Come on, just b/c he had Kareem and Worthy doesn't mean he wasn't a difference-maker. Maybe not to the level of Shaq, but Magic contributed as much as TD and KG. After Kareem retired, it was his excellent work at the point that kept that Lakers team winning games. Magic Johnson is my favorite player of all-time. I will not sit back and allow you to sully his name. PEACE.
 

Pimpwerx

Member
AirBrian said:
OK then, look at the players' former teams and how are they doing without them? Don't get me wrong, I love Nash and would be extremely happy for him to win the award. But he's not the MVP, Shaq is -- no question in my mind. Shaq is a more complete player offensively and defensively. Nash is definitely superior on offense, but lacks the defensive skills to make him a more complete player. Also, Nash can't "take over" a game quite like Shaq can.

And who's talking about 'Bron for MVP? Please, I put Dirk and even Wade higher than 'Bron.
Damn skippy. The reason I think Shaq's been shafted in his career has been that whenever he's left a team, they have gone from playoff-contenders to the junkyard. Orlando was a playoff contender that made it to the Finals. The Lakers *snicker* were a fucking dynasty, and the very next season, they are the laughing stock of the league, despite keeping their "franchise" ballhog. It doesn't matter than the Heat were a better team starting off, Shaq has still made them better. As a Heat fan, I can tell you that we went from good to great, but this season wouldn't have been a walk without Shaq, and I would be praying right now for a trip to the Finals instead of expecting it.

Compare that to Nash. The Mavs are still a top team. Dirk was/is the MVP of that team, not Nash. Nash will make any team better, in spite of his D. He's just a great facilitator on O. But without him, a team could get by. Without Shaq, the meal ticket is gone, and teams seem to just fall off completely. It's so funny, but Kobe might have inadvertantly won Shaq this year's MVP. :lol PEACE.
 

Cloudy

Banned
DMczaf said:
You actually think Shaq only effects stats? :lol :lol Holy crap...

I didn't say that. I used stats to show he was never replaced. You need at least a double-double bigman to replace Shaq...
 

AirBrian

Member
BatiGOOOOOOL said:
AirBrian, I completely forgot about Dirk. He deserves some huge consideration, even in front of Nash. He has had a fantastic season.
Yeah, he's quietly having an MVP-type year. He can carry the Mavs and quite often takes over in the 4th.

Last year was the first year where his stats didn't improve over the previous year. I thought it was mainly because of the 'Twans being in Dallas and having to share minutes. He was also injured a lot more last year. But this year has been amazing. I'm not sure if he worked on his footwork or speed or what this past offseason, but it's paid off. He's much quicker than previous years; he's also a lot more aggressive too. I don't have the stats to back me up, but I'd say he's had probably 2 or 3 times more dunks and lay-ups this year than last year.

I also think his post up game has improved tremendously and is in the top 3 in the league at that. He's just a nightmare to defend against. If someone bigger is defending him, he can just use his speed to go around them. If someone smaller is guarding him, he can just shoot over them. :lol And when the double (and triple) teams come, he's learned to pass the ball more efficiently this year. His rebounding has also improved, and he's been playing solid team defense for most of the year. Anyhow, yeah, one could make a case for Dirk as well.
 

Loki

Count of Concision
Pimpwerx said:
Lies lies, all damn lies. Didn't Magic even play center at one point in a Final to lead the Lakers to victory?

Dude, follow the conversation. Yes, Magic was incredibly versatile and could play any position on the floor. But we were talking specifically about defense (with regards to Nash), and that's an area where Magic was decidedly average. I simply used him (and Barkley) as an example of why not being a sterling defensive player shouldn't be the only reason you disqualify someone for consideration for the MVP award. That's all. :)
 

Ramirez

Member
Iverson should be a canidate,but he won't be.He leads in scoring, 2nd in steals per game,1st in steals overall,5th in assists, 1st in minutes per game,etc.

Not to mention the guys around him are no where near what Nash,Dirk,O'neal,etc. have around them.I'm not positive,but I think if you take away Shaq or Nash the Heat and Suns might still makes the playoffs (Im pretty positive on the Heat),but take away Iverson and we're probably the worst team in the league.
 

DMczaf

Member
Cloudy said:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=stein_marc&id=2037877

Remember what I said about the media sticking it to Kobe? It's all good though. Kobe might act like he doesn't care when his rep as a person is dragged through the mud but he will be on Mitch to improve the team now that they're trying to relegate him to bum status as a player :lol

...

Kobe is NOT special. Kobe is just another player. Want proof? Check out the articles about Tracy McGrady last season and summer, now check out the articles this season.

Winning brings positive articles, losing brings negative articles. It's that simple, but you keep bringing it back to "See the media sticking it to Kobe?!"

Hell, the media even jumped on Jordan during his final 2 season (actually, I should say the final season because his first season with the Wizards they were a #5 seed before his knee injury). NO one is above losing, no one.
 
Thats it, Konex. You're officially off Laker/Kobe bandwagon duty. Clear out your locker. You are being reassigned to the Tijuana Dragones of the ABA.
dragones.jpg
 

Matrix

LeBron loves his girlfriend. There is no other woman in the world he’d rather have. The problem is, Dwyane’s not a woman.
Miguel said:
Just bought 8 tix (4 each) to Rockets home playoff game #1 and #2. :D

I hate you :(
 

DMczaf

Member
http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/sports/bk/bkn/3135665

Yao Ming laughed as he stuck his elbows in the air and made them even with his shoulders.

"Elbows up," he said. "Elbows up."

He has heard those words so often from Rockets teammate Dikembe Mutombo that it's almost a constant chatter in his head when he's on the court, which means Mutombo's plan has worked.

Ever since Mutombo arrived in Houston last offseason, his goal was to contribute in more ways than just with his renowned defense.

He wanted to be a mentor for Yao.

The Son of 'Bows.

The NBA will never be safe knowing that Mutombo is leaving behind his legacy with a 7'6 center who could AIM for the top of your head :lol
 

bionic77

Member
Ninja Scooter said:
Thats it, Konex. You're officially off Laker/Kobe bandwagon duty. Clear out your locker. You are being reassigned to the Tijuana Dragones of the ABA.
dragones.jpg

I think some 'persuasion' might be in order...
 

Swordian

Member
Pimpwerx said:
Damn skippy. The reason I think Shaq's been shafted in his career has been that whenever he's left a team, they have gone from playoff-contenders to the junkyard. Orlando was a playoff contender that made it to the Finals. The Lakers *snicker* were a fucking dynasty, and the very next season, they are the laughing stock of the league, despite keeping their "franchise" ballhog. It doesn't matter than the Heat were a better team starting off, Shaq has still made them better. As a Heat fan, I can tell you that we went from good to great, but this season wouldn't have been a walk without Shaq, and I would be praying right now for a trip to the Finals instead of expecting it.

You might have a point if the only difference between this year's team and last year's team is the lack of Shaq. Almost the entire team is composed of new players this year. Saying that the Lakers are bad now that Shaq is gone is giving him far too much credit and isn't truly representative of the situation.
 

Cloudy

Banned
bishoptl said:
Dammit. I really wanted to see this game - work interferes yet again! :p

Fans are booing and yelling "carter" and "VC sucks". Some even have bibs with #15 on them and his jersey with his name taped over :lol
 

Silkworm

Member
Ugh. I was hoping Philly would lose to the Heat last night. I hope the Celtics can beat the Heat (game in progress) but I'm not sure if that'll happen. Sure, the 76ers beat the Heat in OT last night, but Shaq was just coming back to the Heat. Spurs lost their first game back with Duncan, so likewise it's not too surprising that Shaq wasn't quite back into the flow of things with the Heat. But now that Shaq has a game under his belt I'm afraid the Heat will be back in the swing of things and will crush the Celtics. Ah well. Hopefully the Pacers will beat the 76ers tomorrow. I know the Celtics have clinched a playoff spot but I'd rather see them as the Atlantic Coast Division leader rather than in the 7th/8th spot. But I could see them collapsing at the end of the season.... Oh well, it's not like I have high hopes they'll make it out the first round of the playoffs anyway so I suppose it doesn't really matter where they finish. :p
 

kevm3

Member
James might be the next Big O
By John Hollinger

Can LeBron James do anything more to amaze us?

Watching his overnight transition from high school phenom to NBA superstar has been incredible, especially now that he's stopped biting his nails at every dead ball. James is the most hyped NBA player we've ever seen, yet somehow he's matched the impossible expectations. A skilled, graceful athlete packed into a bruising 6-foot-8, 240-pound frame, he impresses us more with his understanding of the game than with his athleticism. As a result, he's an MVP candidate at the tender age of 20.

James has been so good, so quickly, that it's hard to decide which aspect of his play is the most amazing. Is it his sixth sense for the game? His rapid improvement as a pro? His Magic-like combination of size and ballhandling skill? Or how about the way he's dealt with the fame and fortune, when most players his age would have been caught smoking herb with three underage groupies in a hot tub of Cristal by now?

One could make a case for any of those, but I'll go for a different answer.

The most amazing thing about James is that he has no weaknesses. Think about it. Nearly every player, even a great player, is below average at something. Shaquille O'Neal and Tim Duncan can't make free throws, Steve Nash doesn't play much defense, Kevin Garnett struggles on 3s, Dirk Nowitzki and Kobe Bryant shoot below the league average on 2-pointers. The list goes on.

Not LeBron. He's above average in every measurable skill.

If you're dubious, just look at the evidence. Relative to his peers in the game's nine most important tools – scoring, passing, ballhandling, defense, 2-point shooting, 3-point shooting, free-throw shooting, drawing fouls and rebounding – James passes the test in every one.



Scoring
Obviously, James is well above average here. His average of 25.5 points per 40 minutes ranks eighth in the NBA, and second to Vince Carter among small forwards. Let's move on.

Passing
James passes here with flying colors as well. He averages over seven assists a game, the top figure among forwards in the NBA. As I mentioned in an earlier piece on Assist Ratio, James is easily the best-passing small forward in basketball.


Ballhandling
James commits 3.4 turnovers a game, which is the sixth-highest total in the league. That sounds bad until we adjust for how many possessions he uses – 34.5 a game, second only to Allen Iverson. Out of 34.5 possessions, 3.4 turnovers isn't too shabby – it means LeBron commits turnovers on only 9.7 percent of the possessions he uses. Of the 59 small forwards to play at least 500 minutes, only 20 others turn the ball over as infrequently. Additionally, most of the other guys don't get pressed into service at point guard for chunks of every game, making LeBron's turnover avoidance even more impressive.

Defense
James still is a work in progress at the defensive end, but he's already well ahead of the curve. Because of his outstanding anticipation in the passing lanes, he grabs 2.3 steals a game, good for third in the NBA. His overall defense is solid, too, as the Cavs give up 2.2 points fewer per 48 minutes when James is on the court.


2-point shooting
James is shooting 47.5 percent from the field on the season, which is outstanding for a perimeter player. The league average is only 44.3 percent, and most of the players who exceed it are interior players who take close-in shots. Considering only 2-pointers casts James in an even better light. LeBron shoots 50.2 percent from inside the arc, compared to the league-wide norm of 46.9 percent.

3-point shooting
Here's an area where the scouting report on James is more out of date than your uncle's wood-paneled station wagon. The biggest complaint about James when he entered the league was his inability to shoot from long range. Since then he's progressed with lightning speed, shooting 35.6 percent from downtown this season, which just puts him ahead of the league average of 35.5 percent. Moreover, he keeps getting better. James is hitting 39.0 percent in April, including seven rainbows against the Milwaukee Bucks Saturday.

Free-throw shooting
This is the one category where James barely scrapes under the wire. While James's jumper has improved by leaps and bounds, his free-throw stroke hasn't changed much. James is shooting 75.5 percent from the stripe, which beats the league average of 75.3 percent by a whisker.

Drawing fouls
James averages nearly eight free-throw attempts a game, but that's a bit misleading – shooting as much as James does, he should get to the line a lot. For a more balanced view, let's use a stat called Free-Throw Rate, which divides free-throw attempts by field-goal attempts. James's 0.38 mark ranks 15th among small forwards, putting him in the top third. While he isn't among the elite in this category, he's far above average because he's so strong and goes to the basket so often.

Rebounding
While James grabbed 18 boards Thursday night and averages over seven a game, this actually is one of his shakiest categories. That's a surprise in light of his physique and athleticism, but he spends so much time on the perimeter that he's not as active as he could be under the boards. As a result, James rebounds just 9.6 percent of the missed shots when he's on the court, ranking 26th among the league's 59 small forwards. That puts him in the upper half and allows him to pass this test, but it's an area he should target for further improvement.
So there it is. Nine categories, nine check marks.

If you run through this list for the entire NBA, you'll be hard-pressed to find one other player who passes all nine tests. James does because he's a rare blend of talents – he can do both big-guy things (getting to the line, rebounding, shooting a high percentage) and little-guy things (passing, shooting from distance). While he squeaks by the standard in a couple of categories, his incredible variety of skills makes him unique.

Because of that, perhaps we should change our comparison point for LeBron. Since he turned pro, scribes have instinctively compared him to Michael Jordan, the last dominant perimeter player. However, Jordan dominated more with his massive scoring explosions, especially as a younger player, while James's skills are more broad based.

Thus, a less recent comparison might be more apt: Oscar Robertson. Like James, Robertson was a big, powerful player from the Rust Belt blessed with a point guard's skills. Robertson is the only player to average a triple-double in a season, and James is the only active player with a prayer of being the next.

Even now, James is following more in Robertson's footsteps than Jordan's. James is on pace to become just the fifth player in NBA history to average 25 points, seven assists, and seven rebounds in a season. Robertson pulled off that feat six times, while Jordan did it only once.

Regardless of whose career he emulates more closely, LeBron James is well on his way to being the game's next dominant superstar. The fact he's above the league average in every category in just his second year out of high school only proves how rapid his ascent has been, and how high he could be headed.

See, it's things like this that piss me off. Lebron James has NO weaknesses and an MVP candidate? Who the hell is this guy writing this article?

As far as being asked if I would start to have disdain towards Wade if the media gave him supersloppy blowjobs, I would treat him the same way as Bron. I'd get sick of him being on TV all the time and getting props he hasn't yet earned. I can appreciate Bron's game, but I can hardly tolerate the way the media blows him up to the extreme. If they said Wade was MVP candidate this season, has no weaknesses and showed clips of him doing simple layups into the rim and ONLY showed him on the highlights during the heat games, I'd be getting sick of seeing him on TV too.

Now, let me give props to Lebron where they are due. Supposedly Lebron James cried after the loss to the Knicks. I have to give him props for taking the game that seriously. That taste of defeat will be good for him in building up his inner fire.
 

levious

That throwing stick stunt of yours has boomeranged on us.
Cloudy said:
Dallas actually replaced Nash with a starting caliber PG. The Lakers didn't do the same with Shaq. The better indicator is to see how their CURRENT teams do with and without them. The Heat can beat most East teams without Shaq but the Suns lost to horrible teams without Nash. Their whole gameplan is just crap without him....



hamstringsit.jpg


p_0138.jpg


Loki said:
hell, I'd even say KG if his team did a bit better this year.

A BIT?!
 

DMczaf

Member
The New York Post is reporting that the NBA's new Collective Bargaining Agreement has been nearly completed, possibly as soon as Saturday, which means that it would be announced prior to the playoffs.

The players will likely have better financial footing with this CBA, while the NBA will likely get their age limit rule.

"There have been no leaks. That's always an infallible indicator that the league and the union understand they have a good thing goin' on and don't want to blow it," said an unnamed source close to the negotiations. "Neither side has tried to put pressure on the other apropos to one issue or another. Nobody has looked to establish leverage in the media. Both sides have been positive, professional and private.

"No issue is isolated," explained the high-ranking member of the negotiating committee. "Everything is discussed in the same breath. You can't thrash out this issue without thrashing out that issue. You know, we provide something here and they provide something there and, in the end, hopefully everything falls into place."

<NHL> Doh!
 
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