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[XHitoshuraX]

Deep Brown is HALF right in what he's saying. When Just Add Monsters (newly Ninja Theory) announced the game officially, it was being toted as a "next-gen" game. However in its most early stages, it was indeed being developed for the original XBOX. When the newer version was shown, Microsoft backed out.

 

[deepbrown]

"Forward to GDC 2003 again. After hearing the sales figures for Kung Foo Chaos we know that a sequel isn't going to happen even though MS is saying otherwise. Our options are looking grim. With no sequel in sight, we have two choices: create a brand new IP or do a work-for-hire gig. Our Kung Fu Chaos engine was really only suited for Kung Fu Chaos and the cost of re-engineering it for a license would mean that we wouldn't be able to compete with those who specialise in low-cost licenses.

Creating a new IP is looking grim too: our market research shows that sequels and licenses dominate the end of a console cycle. Even if we pull off a new IP, the investment we would have to make on an updated engine would probably only last the one game in the current console lifecycle.

What our research does show is that 3rd person action adventures are big but the first generation games in this genre are always shit. Nina, Mike and I originally came from Sony Cambridge, a studio that specialised in 3rd person action games and so we would be treading familiar ground. If we start now, a full year or two before most developers even think about next-gen development, we would have the time to craft a great game and release it early in the next-gen console cycle.

As expected, several weeks after our presentation to MS, they say no to Kung Fu Story but we are already busy designing a next generation original IP codenamed Heavenly Sword. And so begins this diary of the dreams and nightmares that define next-gen development..."

http://www.ninjatheory.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=24&Itemid=52

"I’d like to think that the next-gen game experience should not be about any single gameplay, rendering or hardware gimmick. Nor should it be about pigeonhole genres. I believe that the next-gen will kick-start the rise of games as a sophisticated entertainment medium as powerful as film, music and literature: the 10th art. There I said it."

http://www.ninjatheory.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=23&Itemid=52

"So what better time than at the start of an exciting new console generation to position yourself with a statement of style and beauty? And to start early enough to craft an amazing gaming experience that truly could not exist on current gen hardware?"

"For the first time in over 2 years, Nina, Mike and I hit the road armed with a full design, a business plan, and a nice little trailer to pitch our Heavenly Sword concept to a few choice publishers.

“We are Just Add Monsters and our last game was Kung Fu Chaos”

So far so good.

“We are here to present our next gen game concept”

“Next gen? Do you mean PSP?”

Oh boy.

Despite all that, by the end of our presentations, particularly when we showed them our trailer and our early-bird strategy, the response was uncanny. By uncanny I mean good. By good I mean unbelievably amazing. No game any of us had ever pitched before had been met with the enthusiasm we witnessed in those dull, audio-visually-challenged meeting rooms.

As we followed up with meetings and worked our way up the publishing chain, we started hitting dead ends:

“We think that starting with a team of 23 is too small for a NEXT-GEN game”

Summer of 2003 is fading and it looks like we’ll have to self-fund our prototype and aggressively pitch it to the big boys for this to work. It will need to be an amazing playable demo for platforms that don't exist; yet one that looks, sounds and feels better than any game currently out there.

Next month I want to tell you about the true cost of transitioning to next-generation development and it has nothing to do with money, technology, art pipelines or any of the other usual suspects and it very nearly ripped our team apart."

http://www.ninjatheory.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=43&Itemid=52

All dated 2003-2004. It goes on and on and on...i could quote more.

Deepbrown isn't half right, deep is full right - The only game after Kung Foo Chaos which was to be on the Xbox, was Kung Foo Story, which Microsoft turned down.


And finally the nail in the coffin from DeanoC - Ninja Theory dev, posting on B3D, 3rd Aug 2007

"HS was never meant to go to XBOX, it was designed for NEXT GEN from the start"

Next gen, next gen, next gen....which is now current gen, but used to be next gen, but all in all not XBOX - unless they were making this game after the PS1...

Sorry about the whispers - my family is Singaporean ...so I'm not being racist - it's just a common saying over here in the UK. (it being a common saying is of course no defense, I was unaware it was offensive)

 

[Mesijs]

Anybody does have tactis for

Spoiler

defeating Flying Fox for the first time in Hell difficulty. Died three times now. He kind of kills me quick. I can handle his soldiers with no problems and even have the health things left, but he kills me way to quickly. Should I approach him from a distance and throw objects? Just wait for him and counter/dodge?

 

[XHitoshuraX]

Anybody does have tactis for

Spoiler

defeating Flying Fox for the first time in Hell difficulty. Died three times now. He kind of kills me quick. I can handle his soldiers with no problems and even have the health things left, but he kills me way to quickly. Should I approach him from a distance and throw objects? Just wait for him and counter/dodge?

I have to head home now and so I'll respond in full to deep brown later lol And to answer your question Mesijs

Spoiler

when fighting Flying Fox on Hell, your best bet is to counter and dodge as much as you can. Throwing objects does work, but the amount of damage it does isn't worth the effort. Its extremely challenging, but do-able..

 

[Mesijs]

I have to head home now and so I'll respond in full to deep brown later lol And to answer your question Mesijs

Spoiler

when fighting Flying Fox on Hell, your best bet is to counter and dodge as much as you can. Throwing objects does work, but the amount of damage it does isn't worth the effort. Its extremely challenging, but do-able..

Spoiler

I thought countering is quite dangerous, as he can switch stances quickly and also unleash a devastating unblockable attack. Isn't it smarter to dodge, throw a lot of objects and quickly attack and dodge then?

 

[Dante]

How are people playing this already?

 

[Nytekrawla]

This game looks sick, but how are you guys getting it early?

 

[Mesijs]

Because I'm a reviewer.

 

[XHitoshuraX]

Because I'm a reviewer.

Did you figure out the fox Mesijs?

 

[Lord Error]

Thanks Deepbrown, earlier in this thread I was stating the same thing you did, but I was too lazy to find the development diary you just quoted. I clearly remember reading all that though.

I really have no problem with game staring on whatever, but Manabyte and others are basing their story of game starting on Xbox on some user-created video posted on Gametrailers, and that video is presenting a false statement, which is clearly just the speculation by the user who created it.

I even posted on what GPU the game engine started it's life, as I remember reading that on B3D, posted by DeanoC or nAo.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=7629625&postcount=148

 

[tribal24]

game came out already?

 

[Barakov]

game came out already?

Not that I know of. The people who have it are from the gaming press and are playing through it for review I believe.

 

[XHitoshuraX]

Thanks Deepbrown, earlier in this thread I was stating the same thing you did, but I was too lazy to find the development diary you just quoted. I clearly remember reading all that though.

I really have no problem with game staring on whatever, but Manabyte and others are basing their story of game starting on Xbox on some user-created video posted on Gametrailers, and that video is presenting a false statement, which is clearly just the speculation by the user who created it.

I even posted on what GPU the game engine started it's life, as I remember reading that on B3D, posted by DeanoC or nAo.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=7629625&postcount=148

I stand corrected and I apologize, thanks to deepbrown for that informative correction.

/bows

 

[Rhazer Fusion]

This game is mine on day one.

 

[Whoaness]

I'll get this game with Lair. I actually thought Folklore comes in this month but I found out it was the next. -_-

Now I have to do two trips. Oh yeah, and my PSP slim!

 

[XHitoshuraX]

I would I had the power of teh sticky.

OP changed to reflect new information, thank you deepbrown.

 

[deepbrown]

I stand corrected and I apologize, thanks to deepbrown for that informative correction.

/bows

No problemo. Cookie now?

It got a bit heated, I was called a racist, I worked my butt off - but it all ended well. With deepbrown showing the way, and everyone else in deep monkey shit.

ManaByte ? Dante ? What do you have to say about this?

Thanks Deepbrown, earlier in this thread I was stating the same thing you did, but I was too lazy to find the development diary you just quoted. I clearly remember reading all that though.

I really have no problem with game staring on whatever, but Manabyte and others are basing their story of game starting on Xbox on some user-created video posted on Gametrailers, and that video is presenting a false statement, which is clearly just the speculation by the user who created it.

I even posted on what GPU the game engine started it's life, as I remember reading that on B3D, posted by DeanoC or nAo.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=7629625&postcount=148

Good one. Tis annoying hearing people say it isn't it - because the game really isn't possible on a last gen system - plus it blew the minds away of producers who saw early footage, who thought it would be impossible to create even on next gen consoles. THAT'S why it was pissing me off when people said it was on the XBOX - because it insults the game.

Oh well, all's good in love and war.

 

[pilgrim]

The ending is really good. A tough and impressive battle.

Shame the game is quite short, but that's ok with me. Others will be dissapointed though.

 

[shysaursoft]

Just finished it last night (started two days ago, played for about 3 to 4 hours a day), and I felt it was okay. The framerate issues, juddering camera and overzealous SIXAXIS usage kept getting all up in my face, but I enjoyed all the video cutscenes (what, people think we can't spot when it's in-engine and when it's a compressed videoclip?).

I'm having a hard time deciding what to write about it. The combat system felt off to me (yes, I fully understand it, all that jazz, finished God of War II, blah blah), and the turret sections - well, they're turret sections. You sit, aim, fire, steer with SIXAXIS, hit... repeat ad nauseam...

It feels like it would have been a damn awesome PS2 game (of course, they'd have to drop the polycount and scope a little, but I don't feel it would have hurt the game), if it had more time spent on polish... but from the looks of it, Ninja Theory spread themselves out too thin on this title.

Edit: Final Review Code played

 

[Whoaness]

Wait, some people already have it? I thought it was next week?

 

[Lord Error]

(what, people think we can't spot when it's in-engine and when it's a compressed videoclip?)

Can you tell how many cutscenes were there that were not compressed into a video? (the actual cutscenes, not QTEs)

It feels like it would have been a damn awesome PS2 game (of course, they'd have to drop the polycount and scope a little, but I don't feel it would have hurt the game), if it had more time spent on polish...

But why would you want a game like this on PS2 anymore? The graphics would have to be severely downgraded (definitely not 'a little'), physics probably removed, or scaled down a lot again. It wouldn't be the same game anymore, and it would still have GoW games to match up to, except this time it wouldn't have the graphics to set it clearly apart. Unless you're saying that working on PS2 would let them polish the game more as they wouldn't have to spend as much time on graphics?

 

[shysaursoft]

Can you tell how many cutscenes were there that were not compressed into a video? (the actual cutscenes, not QTEs)

All the long, character-centric cutscenes, about one or two per "stage" - five "stages" to the game with multiple "levels" each, the fifth stage had about half the "levels" of the earlier stages) were video files...

But there were quite a few ingame cutscenes and they far outnumber the videofiles but were often very short or not all that interesting.

I don't hold it against the developers, btw, when they switch to videofiles - but it's just not utterly transparent and you can spot when it flips from one to the other.

BTW: There was no difficulty selector at the start - it only unlocked the next one up once I finished the game.

And the game was too damn easy the first time through, but I've no interest in playing it again. Bit of a one-trick pony to me.

 

[shysaursoft]

But why would you want a game like this on PS2 anymore? The graphics would have to be severely downgraded (definitely not 'a little'), physics probably removed, or scaled down a lot again. It wouldn't be the same game anymore, and it would still have GoW games to match up to, except this time it wouldn't have the graphics to set it clearly apart. Unless you're saying that working on PS2 would let them polish the game more as they wouldn't have to spend as much time on graphics?

Because the graphics and physics don't make the game - the game had enough "there" to begin with, and would have done great on PS2. Yes, it would have competed against GoW, but I believe there is room for one more - but then again, I still consider GoW2 superior to Heavenly Sword, even though one is on PS2 and another on PS3.

The "superior" hardware doesn't magically make a game something more. Heavenly Sword, in my opinion, doesn't gain all that much from being on the PS3.

Yes, you're right: I'm saying working on the PS2, a familiar and dependable system by now, Ninja Theory would have had more time to really refine the game to a shiny polish, giving it that extra "oomph" it really needs.

 

[Lord Error]

Also, can you tell if the fully in-engine rendered cutscenes use the same models, shaders and whatnot as the video file compressed ones (I know they used some prerendered CG scenes as well, but I'm talking comparison to actual engine rendered video compressed scenes)

 

[AgentOtaku]

so how are the "extras" on this?....namely the making-ofs

are they just the same ones they've been releasing on PSN like with the animated shorts?

 

[shysaursoft]

Also, can you tell if the fully in-engine rendered cutscenes use the same models, shaders and whatnot as the video file compressed ones (I know they used some prerendered CG scenes as well, but I'm talking comparison to actual engine rendered video compressed scenes)

From what I can tell, the only reason Ninja Theory switched to videofiles for a cutscene, was when they had to a) show a level of scope beyond what the engine could do comfortably (Heavenly Sword does, after all, suffer from serious *serious* framedrop at points) and b) had to cross-cut for the sake of story, between two entirely different in-game locations (on different stages), something that's tricky to do real-time because of all the loading required (Heavenly Sword is a bit of a loader, taking up close to half a minute sometimes).

I don't feel they "cheated", really - the videoclip character models seem to be the same ones we're getting in realtime too.

 

[shysaursoft]

so how are the "extras" on this?....namely the making-ofs

are they just the same ones they've been releasing on PSN like with the animated shorts?

Same ones, to my knowledge. Truth be told, I didn't look at the "extras" with all that much of a critical eye - we tend not to review a game based on "extras", but we do mention when a game has them.

 

[AgentOtaku]

Same ones, to my knowledge. Truth be told, I didn't look at the "extras" with all that much of a critical eye - we tend not to review a game based on "extras", but we do mention when a game has them.

cool

thanks

 

[Whoaness]

So what is the release date...?

 

[shysaursoft]

So what is the release date...?

You can't Google it?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heavenly_Sword

Release date(s)
JA TBA 2007
NA September 12, 2007 [1]
EU September 14, 2007
AUS September 20, 2007 [2]

http://www.tothegame.com/search.asp?title=heavenly+sword&x=0&y=0

UK REL. 28-Sep-2007
NORDIC REL. 26-Sep-2007
US REL. 25-Sep-2007

(In other words: Whenever it hits street, I guess)

 

[deepbrown]

From what I can tell, the only reason Ninja Theory switched to videofiles for a cutscene, was when they had to a) show a level of scope beyond what the engine could do comfortably (Heavenly Sword does, after all, suffer from serious *serious* framedrop at points) and b) had to cross-cut for the sake of story, between two entirely different in-game locations (on different stages), something that's tricky to do real-time because of all the loading required (Heavenly Sword is a bit of a loader, taking up close to half a minute sometimes).

I don't feel they "cheated", really - the videoclip character models seem to be the same ones we're getting in realtime too.

I believe they are used to cover up load times - did you experience any load times?

 

[Lord Error]

Release date in US is 12. September.

Miktar, about the load times, did you try installing the portion of the game, and how long did it take (and how big the install file is)

The "superior" hardware doesn't magically make a game something more. Heavenly Sword, in my opinion, doesn't gain all that much from being on the PS3.

Yes, I know what you mean, but I think this game in particular would lose a lot of it's charm if the graphics weren't what they are. Just my thought about it, of course.

Keep in mind also that these guys didn't have any experience with PS2 at all. They were more familiar with nvidia/ati kind of shaders and graphics programming due to their work on Xbox.

 

[shysaursoft]

I believe they are used to cover up load times - did you experience any load times?

...something that's tricky to do real-time because of all the loading required (Heavenly Sword is a bit of a loader, taking up close to half a minute sometimes)...

Yes. There is quite a bit of loading, especially if you die - it has to spend upwards of 20 seconds reloading the level (except when you fail a QTE - that tends to put you right back at the start very fast).

 

[shysaursoft]

Miktar, about the load times, did you try installing the portion of the game, and how long did it take (and how big the install file is)

I put the game in my PS3, and started playing. I did not notice an apparent visible option to 'install' anything.

Yes, I know what you mean, but I think this game in particular would lose a lot of it's charm if the graphics weren't what they are. Just my thought about it, of course.

I see what you mean, and I understand that. To me, however, the graphics weren't all that charming once the ooh-aah faded (which it did after the Stage 2 press-demo that circulated earlier).

But I'm a style-over-graphics type (Okami, rRootage, Cubivore, etc), so don't take my word as gospel. The graphics in Heavenly Sword *are* stunning, and some scenes are breathtaking. But then that damn combat system comes running in with a wet blanket to ruin my pretty movie by having me bash my head against frustratingly easy-but-finicky-due-to-poor-design combat. Now, I've played Ninja Gaiden (Xbox) and I did not finish it - because Ninja Gaiden is NG-Hard (translation: f**ing hard) - but I understand that NG has a finely tuned, solidly built combat system. To my "feel", Heavenly Sword does not. It feels like an emulation of several ideas, held together very loosely by "wowee" martial arts.

 

[artredis1980]

http://gamerankings.com/htmlpages2/928391.asp

81% at GR now

 

[Whoaness]

You can't Google it?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heavenly_Sword

http://www.tothegame.com/search.asp?title=heavenly+sword&x=0&y=0

(In other words: Whenever it hits street, I guess)

Yeah I can... nevermind though I just miss that bit where he says he's a reviewer.

 

[deepbrown]

I put the game in my PS3, and started playing. I did not notice an apparant visible option to 'install' anything.



I see what you mean, and I understand that. To me, however, the graphics weren't all that charming once the ooh-aah faded (which it did after the Stage 2 press-demo that circulated earlier).

But I'm a style-over-graphics type (Okami, rRootage, Cubivore, etc), so don't take my word as gospel. The graphics in Heavenly Sword *are* stunning, and some scenes are breathtaking. But then that damn combat system comes running in with a wet blanket to ruin my pretty movie by having me bash my head against frustratingly easy-but-finicky-due-to-poor-design combat. Now, I've played Ninja Gaiden (Xbox) and I did not finish it - because Ninja Gaiden is NG-Hard (translation: f**ing hard) - but I understand that NG has a finely tuned, solidly built combat system. To my "feel", Heavenly Sword does not. It feels like an emulation of several ideas, held together very loosely by "wowee" martial arts.

Well if you've read the speil above- Ninja Theory were aiming for a game that was beyond anything possible last-gen. Fighting huge armies (on PS2 we'd be talking about fighting against 10 at most), physics, environments, best lighting ever in a game, with 4xAA, 8xAF, DOF etc etc...

 

[shysaursoft]

Well if you've read the speil above- Ninja Theory were aiming for a game that was beyond anything possible last-gen. Fighting huge armies (on PS2 we'd be talking about fighting against 10 at most), physics, environments, best lighting ever in a game, with 4xAA, 8xAF, DOF etc etc...

Fighting huge armies: Yeah, it's got that. But only in the same way Path of Neo had you fighting 'Thousands of Agent Smiths'. Kingdom Under Fire and Ninety Nine Nights had comparable 'huge armies' you could fight. It's nothing we've not seen before.

Physics: Yeah, nice Havok. It works. No complaints there.

Environments: Those are dang pretty, as I said.

Best Lighting Ever with 4 x AA: Um, correct me if I'm wrong, but there was no 4xAA in Heavenly Sword - the edges looked ragged as hell to me - it's due to the lack of AA and the 'colour banding' in the colours that I noticed there were videoclips for cutscenes.

(Also, unless I'm wrong (and if I am, someone tell me), the PS3 videocard can't do HDR and AA at the same time - and Heavenly Sword uses HDR from the looks of it).

Depth of Field: PS2 does that just fine, even though it's a 'hack' on the PS2 most of the time. I didn't notice much DoF in Heavenly Sword, except during the 'steer the arrow' sections and other SIXAXIS bits.

Look, I see you're a very technical-minded gamer who loves it when a game really pushes the envelope of the hardware. I'm the opposite. I want a game that is both challenging and entertaining, both interesting and perhaps a little awkward. If it happens to push the technical side as well, great, but if it doesn't, I'm not going to lose sleep over it.

I liked Heavenly Sword, and it's the type of game I would recommend to anyone with a PS3. I'm certainly not out to *stop* people from playing it.

 

[Lord Error]

Miktar, yes HS is one of the titles that does have AA as well as HDR, it uses a color space conversion method to accomplish that. Demo that I've played definitely looked AA-ed, bot sure if it was 4x or 2x though. Keep in mind, even 4x AA does not eliminate all the jagged edges, and especially not on the edges affected by strong HDR highlights.

PS3 can do both at the same time even though to do that some tricks have to be performed, as the GPU does not "officially" support it. Several games do it already, HS is not the first one.

Btw, HS seems to be using some *really* good DOF when you pull those perfect counter moves, as well as the special moves (by pressing Circle button)

Option to install is there, another reviewer confirmed it. Check the options screen or something like that. You'll find options to disable motion sensing controls as well, for various parts of the game. You may want to do that for initiating aerial combos at the very least.

 

[shysaursoft]

Miktar, yes HS is one of the titles that does have AA as well as HDR, it uses a color space conversion method to accomplish that. Demo that I've played definitely looked AA-ed, bot sure if it was 4x or 2x though. Keep in mind, even 4x AA does not eliminate all the jagged edges, and especially not on the edges affected by strong HDR highlights.

PS3 can do both at the same time even though to do that some tricks have to be performed, as the GPU does not "officially" support it. Several games do it already, HS is not the first one.

Option to install is there, another reviewer confirmed it. Check the options screen or something like that. You'll find options to disable motion sensing controls as well, for various parts of the game. You may want to do that for initiating aerial combos at the very least.

Ah, okay. I stand corrected. As for the install, cool. I guess that's... a good thing? It would certainly speed up loading, but it doesn't really change my overall impression of the game.

As for disabling motion-sensing, wish I'd known that before I finished the game - would have improved the experience.

 

[deepbrown]

Fighting huge armies: Yeah, it's got that. But only in the same way Path of Neo had you fighting 'Thousands of Agent Smiths'. Kingdom Under Fire and Ninety Nine Nights had comparable 'huge armies' you could fight. It's nothing we've not seen before.

Physics: Yeah, nice Havok. It works. No complaints there.

Environments: Those are dang pretty, as I said.

Best Lighting Ever with 4 x AA: Um, correct me if I'm wrong, but there was no 4xAA in Heavenly Sword - the edges looked ragged as hell to me - it's due to the lack of AA and the 'colour banding' in the colours that I noticed there were videoclips for cutscenes.

(Also, unless I'm wrong (and if I am, someone tell me), the PS3 videocard can't do HDR and AA at the same time - and Heavenly Sword uses HDR from the looks of it).

Depth of Field: PS2 does that just fine, even though it's a 'hack' on the PS2 most of the time. I didn't notice much DoF in Heavenly Sword, except during the 'steer the arrow' sections and other SIXAXIS bits.

Look, I see you're a very technical-minded gamer who loves it when a game really pushes the envelope of the hardware. I'm the opposite. I want a game that is both challenging and entertaining, both interesting and perhaps a little awkward. If it happens to push the technical side as well, great, but if it doesn't, I'm not going to lose sleep over it.

I liked Heavenly Sword, and it's the type of game I would recommend to anyone with a PS3. I'm certainly not out to *stop* people from playing it.

Well a few games have had HDR and AA on the PS3 - they have been able to get around the limitations. And Heavenly Sword is one of the one that does it the best.

I do like technical - but I also like beauty. The Sub Surface scattering in the lighting is also something which is beautiful. It's aesthetic - not technical. The only reason I brought this up is that it's only possible for it to be a movie game, if it's on a next-gen system - because it needs all these things to pull it off.

NOW - this is my favorite genre (along with platforming) so i also play games for fun. I HAVE NOT played the final game - so don't shoot me down. I like the combat system - yes it has style, but the more I play the demo (yes poor me) the more depth I find in it. I find it exciting and fun, so perhaps if I like the combat system, I'll like the game more?

And yeah you can turn off the motion sensing - but I find it's too easy to pull off aeriel combat moves then! I like the challenge of having to whip up the controller.

When I say you can fight against armies - I'm saying armies which have physics as well - AI for groups, and individuals. Armies that you can blow up and watch them disperse with rag doll physics. Look I can't say how good this is yet until I play it, but I think saying it could have been done of the PS2 even if it was toned down - really is an insult to a game which has been made to be impossible on anything other than the system its on.

Plus how can you review a game and not know all the options? If i was reviewing something I'd look through all the menus and read all the instructions before I even set off...

 

[General Lee D. Mented]

The review code I played with Miktar didn't seem to have AA at all. I was looking for it quite often while he was playing instead of me. It wasn't just the HDR scenes, as far as I can tell AA is off.

Given the amount of frame drops it's getting at 720p, I'm not surprised. You'd want faster framerate over AA for that kind of title anyway, so if it's a tradeoff there it's the right one. But it definitely shows the jaggies on screens 40" and up.

Also, I really really wish the PS3 had a similar hardware tesselation unit to the 360, so it could smooth out the model edges. The models are good, but a lot of the cutscenes run at extreme closeup and you can see the poly count just can't match Gears of War. Of course Gears technically cheats because most of that geometry is added on-GPU, but it still shows.

But that's just graphics. Gameplay-wise I had fun mashing buttons for a while, but then that got old. I liked the shooting sections though, I thought they were fun and something different to do.

 

[Ken Masters]

Ah, okay. I stand corrected. As for the install, cool. I guess that's... a good thing? It would certainly speed up loading, but it doesn't really change my overall impression of the game.

As for disabling motion-sensing, wish I'd known that before I finished the game - would have improved the experience.

how long was the game?



and is there any replay value?

 

[AgentOtaku]

how long was the game?



and is there any replay value?

jesus....

....read the thread...

 

[shysaursoft]

NOW - this is my favorite genre (along with platforming) so i also play games for fun. I HAVE NOT played the final game - so don't shoot me down. I like the combat system - yes it has style, but the more I play the demo (yes poor me) the more depth I find in it. I find it exciting and fun, so perhaps if I like the combat system, I'll like the game more?

I played the demo to death, and thought the combat system was quite slick (had to write a two-page preview). The more I played the demo, the more I discovered about the combat system, the more depth I found in the battles. But after spending more time with it in the final, and getting a proper tutorial that explains it all, it wasn't as deep as I had hoped.

You memorize combos, make sure you're in the right stance when things attack, and then use your 'Initial Cutscene' (SuperStyle) button when you want to do Massive Damage. I'm not trying to be derisive in my over-simplification of the combat system here - I could do it to any game: I'm just explaining what was going on in my head while I was playing. Wash. Rince. Repeat.

But it never felt like I was doing anything -cool-. If something impressive happened on-screen in Heavenly Sword, it never felt like I was the one really responsible for it - only that I monkied enough buttons together in the right sequence to unlock a pretty animation.

Perhaps it treads the fine line between 'entertainment' and 'challenge' a little too closely on the 'entertainment' side. A game like Pirates of the Caribbean: At World's End, for example, treads it all the way on the entertainment side - you can hit the controller with your face and still defeat every enemy.

 

[Lord Error]

Ah, okay. I stand corrected. As for the install, cool. I guess that's... a good thing? It would certainly speed up loading, but it doesn't really change my overall impression of the game.

I'm not expecting it to. Still, can you do an install and check the file size - do it for GAF!

(actually do it for me, I want to know how much stuff I'll have to delete from HDD)

 

[deepbrown]

The review code I played with Miktar didn't seem to have AA at all. I was looking for it quite often while he was playing instead of me. It wasn't just the HDR scenes, as far as I can tell AA is off.

Given the amount of frame drops it's getting at 720p, I'm not surprised. You'd want faster framerate over AA for that kind of title anyway, so if it's a tradeoff there it's the right one. But it definitely shows the jaggies on screens 40" and up.

Also, I really really wish the PS3 had a similar hardware tesselation unit to the 360, so it could smooth out the model edges. The models are good, but a lot of the cutscenes run at extreme closeup and you can see the poly count just can't match Gears of War. Of course Gears technically cheats because most of that geometry is added on-GPU, but it still shows.

But that's just graphics. Gameplay-wise I had fun mashing buttons for a while, but then that got old. I liked the shooting sections though, I thought they were fun and something different to do.

4xAA is there - you will always see jaggies, until we start getting to 16xAA. Learn what to look for.

The Poly count is lower in HS - for the very reason that they are compromising for HDR and AA. Comparing it to Gears when it does things technically beyond it, and differently is stupid. And saying that the PS3 can't do polycount when we have Killzone 2 is a bit absurd. HS uses their art and shaders very well to make things look spectacular - you're just nitpicking.

Why are you mashing buttons? Please play it on Hell Mode before you review this game - it really sounds like you're both playing this game from afar and not giving it the attention it deserves

But it never felt like I was doing anything -cool-. If something impressive happened on-screen in Heavenly Sword, it never felt like I was the one really responsible for it - only that I monkied enough buttons together in the right sequence to unlock a pretty animation.

.

I wonder if you've read the blog about the combat being for your granny to play - the combat engine will cater to her lame capabilities. And also it is for the hardcore gamer who actual thinks about what he's doing. If you know what does what, you will be able to pull them off when you want to. If you don't know what is what and just bash a few buttons, you will perhaps pull off the same/similar moves, BUT the connection won't be there, and you won't do it when you want it to.

http://blogs.ign.com/Heavenly_Sword/2007/08/29/

The combat engine has the capability for both - and if most of engine is in the demo, then this is very clear to me. I was doing some things by fluke in the demo, but I was losing quite a bit of health. I then learnt everything, and now she only does what I tell her too - I know when I'm going to counter perfectly, I know when I'll aeriel, I know when I'll do a certain combo and I feel attached to it.

Well anyway, I'm just saying I had the same problems - and even though I haven't played the final game, I've probably spent just as much time with the raw combat engine as you have (short game? )

 

[AgentOtaku]

I'm not expecting it to. Still, can you do an install and check the file size - do it for GAF!

(actually do it for me, I want to know how much stuff I'll have to delete from HDD)

ditto

 

[General Lee D. Mented]

The funny part was Miktar played all the way to like the last chapter without ever figuring out how counters worked, and then I did it after about 5 minutes of playing.

I think it would have made a pretty good movie. I liked the quality of the acting, although for how much money was thrown at this I'd expect nothing less. But as a game, it's nice but it's no God of War IHMO. I'm not a huge fan of the "memorize all the combos" fighting school, but that's personal preference. The lack of active block I didn't find to be such a big deal since it seems like you're always either attacking, lying on the ground, or being knocked down by unblockable enemy attacks.

I think it lacked a bit in the feedback department. A lot of the time I'd still be mashing my way through a combo and not realize I'd been interrupted and knocked down until I was done pushing all the buttons. Also you never seem to quite know when an enemy is really down for good, or if you can throw them, or if you can coup-de-grace them, since it seems like there are some where you can't.

 

[shysaursoft]

Why are you mashing buttons? Please play it on Hell Mode before you review this game - it really sounds like you're both playing this game from afar and not giving it the attention it deserves

Why are you bringing me into this? I never once said I mashed buttons - I took the combat system very seriously, and even bothered to learn most of the combos.

It sounds like you're trying a bit too hard to defend this game: I'll say it again, this is a good game and I would recommend it to anyone with a PS3.

But don't lynch me just because I don't love it as much as you do.