Lord Error
Insane For Sony
That's what he gets for scoffing at Gradius V and recommending another game because there you "Can have sex with lots of women"
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Official: PSP December 12, 19800 yen
- Thread starter neo2046
- Start date
heavy liquid
Member
People who are actually working on the fucking thing
:lol
JasoNsider said:
cause its no different from what Nintendo did with connectivity, they hyped it up as the next big thing but they didn't have any game that actually made good use of it until Pac-Man VS, maybe touch screen and voice recognition will become important to gameplay when Nintendo backs it up, but for now its mostly talk
Here's the Slashdot story and thread, if anyone's interested. I found it funny when someone pointed out the initials of Best Buy's "Performance Service Plan". If only GameRush had a comparable program.
JasoNsider
Member
Yeah, nobody is arguing that innovation through purely software design is impossible. I'm certainly not arguing that. Games like Wario Ware and Katamari are amazing (and current) examples of new games that innovate with game design.
However, you certainly couldn't do Yoshi's Touch and Go or Wario Ware Touch on any existing game platform. Not even with a mouse on a computer could you play certain games (using a pen versus using a mouse is different - precise operations like writing characters are much easier with a touch screen or graphic tablet.) And the whole ease of use factor is something the established gaming community might gloss over entirely. I could actually have my grandmother playing Wario Ware Touch or Yoshi's Touch and Go. Getting her to learn 10 buttons and analog sticks? Not a chance.
The point is - DS is a system that can't be merely associated with processing power. The PSP news here is bloody great for gamers, but it seems to have also shown some people's true colors on these sorts of issues.
However, you certainly couldn't do Yoshi's Touch and Go or Wario Ware Touch on any existing game platform. Not even with a mouse on a computer could you play certain games (using a pen versus using a mouse is different - precise operations like writing characters are much easier with a touch screen or graphic tablet.) And the whole ease of use factor is something the established gaming community might gloss over entirely. I could actually have my grandmother playing Wario Ware Touch or Yoshi's Touch and Go. Getting her to learn 10 buttons and analog sticks? Not a chance.
The point is - DS is a system that can't be merely associated with processing power. The PSP news here is bloody great for gamers, but it seems to have also shown some people's true colors on these sorts of issues.
PAL regions were essentially split too (UK/Spain/Australia for Sega, France/Germany/Scandanavia for Nintendo). Really it was only Japan where Sega "took it up the ass". Worldwide all totaled around 30-35M for Genesis/MD and 50-55M for SNES/SFC, the 20M or so difference being Japan and post 1995 western sales pretty much.jett said:
Actually, a $150 PS1 vs a $200 DC would be closest in terms of 3D output from what we've seen. Direct N64 & PS2 ports don't seem possible on either platform according to developers, despite the spec sheets in PSP's case.drohne said:
Midway has no plans to support either DS or PSP for the foreseeable future they've said. It's GC/PS2/Xbox/PC/Xenon only for 2005 at least.Razoric said:
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
The amusing/amazing thing is that the price is actually less than that - $185 (I won't include the tax because tax is never included in the US prices either, so if PSP comes here with the same price as in Japan, that's what you are going to see advertised)
JasoNsider
Member
Link316 said:
Connectivity was used primarily in three games
-Pacman Vs.
-Four Swords
-Crystal Chronicles
DS touch screen and mic are used in a wealth of games already, and more importantly, uses standard features on the hardware (i.e. not required to buy peripherals.) Your comparison doesn't fly.
How can you even quantify "backing it up" with examples? Does Wario Ware Touch not justify touch screen? Or how about Feel the Magic with both touching and voice recognition? It seems like the general attitude here is that people are not ever going to be impressed with gameplay ideas spawned by touch screen use. That's what I find both puzzling and worrisome.
JasoNsider said:
Give me a good game to be impressed by and maybe I'll give it another look. Nintendo's connectivity comparison does fly because it's telling of how Nintendo comes up with these seemingly great hardware ideas on paper, but when implemented just aren't that fun or different.
Ok, great price! Now I may actually consider one. But lets keep things into perspective. The much larger PSTwo with network card and controller is Losing money right now at $150. A much smaller PS2 w/ wifi, umd drive, battery, bright screen has got to be atleast $250 to $300 to make. So they are losing approx. 80 bucks at best to sell these things. Which is about what Xbox has been losing. This thing has virtually no chance of making a profit at this price, especially if u factor in that the portable software sales to hardware sales is no where near what the tie ratio is for home consoles. But hey, I'm not complaining, sony's loss is our gain. and u know what they say, mindshare/marketshare is what's most important. They could use the PSP to leverage PS3 when it comes out.... I hope nintendo has something up its sleeve because Sony is giving it everything they have.
and u know what they say, mindshare/marketshare is what's most important. They could use the PSP to leverage PS3 when it comes out.... I hope nintendo has something up its sleeve because Sony is giving it everything they have.JasoNsider
Member
Razoric said:
Four Swords Adventure is probably my second favorite game this year. So I would say that these ideas can be fun, right off the bat. And they certainly are different. From a gamer's perspective, the DS has really taken me by surprise as something completely new and refreshing. I had not played anything like Wario Ware Touch or Yoshi's Touch and Go before it.
Shogmaster
Member
I woke up and found this news just a couple of hours ago. It compelled me to write up a littel piece for my personal forum I have with my friends, half drunk with sleep. I didn't get a chance to read this thread yet, so many point on it might be repeated, or already been debunked. Either way, I want you guys to take a look and comment:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
For first time ever, a gaming portable to be sold at loss!
PSP is offcially sub $200 in Japan!
PSP 19800 Yen
http://www.scei.co.jp/corporate/release/pdf/041027a.pdf
PSP + MS Duo + remote headphone = 24800 yen
http://www.scei.co.jp/corporate/release/pdf/041027b.pdf
By this single stroke of ballsy gambit, the argument that DS and PSP is competing in different markets by Nintendo fans has been slashed into bloody chunks. Sony is going for the kill. Sony wants the "third pillar" demolished even before it has a chance to be erected and spoil the PSP until a proper GB Advance replacement arrives.
Never in history of gaming portables, was any hardware sold at a loss. Only the console business was set to the 'sell the handles at a loss, make money on the blades' model, since the software to console attachment rate was great enough to support such a plan. No gaming portable ever came close enough to such attachment rates for the manufacturer to feel comfortable enough with selling hardware at a loss to build up the market share (perhaps some of the Gameboy iterations came close to or exceeded such attachment rates, but since they always were the market leader, they weren't ever compelled to sell the hardware at a loss at any point).
This is A HUGE gamble for Sony. Will it pay off?
** Some possible reasons why Sony is compelled to sell PSP at a loss:
1. They are in it for the long haul with the PSP.
Unlike new Gameboy every 18 months plan like Nintendo's, Sony has already stated that the PSP is a 10 year hardware. You won't be seeing PSP 2 in 2 year's time (not counting the little improvements they'll make as they go), that's for sure, but you can count on a new Gameboy before 2 years is up (Nintendo has already stated that a real Gameboy Advance replacement that is not a "third pillar" is in the works, to be unveiled in a year or so).
By aiming for the long haul, they are willing to eat huge losses on the hardware for the first few years until manufacturing processes catches up on costs, while building a PSOne like iron glove stranglehold on the portable marketshare leadership.
2. PSP's technology is advanced enough to compete in the long haul.
Specs for the PSP is certainly well above the DS and anything else in the horizon. Just in polycount, PSP's 33 million per sec theoretical/8 million per sec practical just dwarfs the closest competitor in performance, which is the Tiger Telematic's Gizmondo (thanks to nVidia's GoForce 3D 4500 GPU), rated at 5 million per sec theoretical/sub 1 million per sec practical. DS's 120,000 polys per sec is not even in the same hemisphere.
I highly doubt PSP will compete anywhere near 10 years down the road, but for the next few years, it should compete handidly in 3D performance.
3. Nintendo's semi agressive pricing on the DS is forcing their hands.
$150 for DS is significantly lower than the $200 the anaylists and probably Sony were expecting. PSP's perceived value might eaily be 50% or so more over the DS to the consumers, but 100% more? Sony must have not thought so either. So their plans for $300 PSP went out the window with the Nintendo's TGS announcement (making for the unexpected silence on the PSP pricing plans back then).
Few months later, this is the reply by Sony. And the gloves are off.
** Possible wrenches in Sony's plans:
1. Even with the great value PSP now presents, PSP's poor battery performance could bring the early pro and consumer reviews down enough to slow down PSP adopation outside of hardcore gamers.
Negative vibe on the battery performance could be a spoiler for PSP's market build up until Sony solves the problem, which could be couple of years.
2. Competition could catch up in 3D performance quicker than expected.
nVidia and PowerVR has already shipped portable 3D chips to OEMs, and a Pocket PC with the PowerVR chip (essentially a slower but more feature filled version of the CLX graphics chip in the Dreamcast) has shipped in the form of the Dell Axim X50V. ATI will follow suit with their own 3D handheld chip in the coming months. Although they are only a fraction of the power (1/4~1/5 approximately) of the PSP's GPU, they do run cooler and drain less battery power.
And with the focus squarely on handheld 3D now, and all the potential uber cell phones and PDAs to be sold, the race is on in mobile 3D development. Next year should be intersting since even MS is making sure that the Pocket PC OS (Windows Mobile 2005) will have all the proper support for 3D with the inclusion of Diredt 3D mobile. IMG Tech (PowerVR), nVidia, and ATI, as well as others will be pouring on the money for the dominance of mobile 3D in the coming years. PSP could be superceded in 3D performance as quickly as 3~4 years, if PC 3D GPU development is anything to go by.
The question then becomes, would Sony would have gathered enough of the marketshare with the PSP by then to have enough command of the market and the dev support to twart the newcomers (one of them probably from Microsoft)?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
For first time ever, a gaming portable to be sold at loss!
PSP is offcially sub $200 in Japan!
PSP 19800 Yen
http://www.scei.co.jp/corporate/release/pdf/041027a.pdf
PSP + MS Duo + remote headphone = 24800 yen
http://www.scei.co.jp/corporate/release/pdf/041027b.pdf
By this single stroke of ballsy gambit, the argument that DS and PSP is competing in different markets by Nintendo fans has been slashed into bloody chunks. Sony is going for the kill. Sony wants the "third pillar" demolished even before it has a chance to be erected and spoil the PSP until a proper GB Advance replacement arrives.
Never in history of gaming portables, was any hardware sold at a loss. Only the console business was set to the 'sell the handles at a loss, make money on the blades' model, since the software to console attachment rate was great enough to support such a plan. No gaming portable ever came close enough to such attachment rates for the manufacturer to feel comfortable enough with selling hardware at a loss to build up the market share (perhaps some of the Gameboy iterations came close to or exceeded such attachment rates, but since they always were the market leader, they weren't ever compelled to sell the hardware at a loss at any point).
This is A HUGE gamble for Sony. Will it pay off?
** Some possible reasons why Sony is compelled to sell PSP at a loss:
1. They are in it for the long haul with the PSP.
Unlike new Gameboy every 18 months plan like Nintendo's, Sony has already stated that the PSP is a 10 year hardware. You won't be seeing PSP 2 in 2 year's time (not counting the little improvements they'll make as they go), that's for sure, but you can count on a new Gameboy before 2 years is up (Nintendo has already stated that a real Gameboy Advance replacement that is not a "third pillar" is in the works, to be unveiled in a year or so).
By aiming for the long haul, they are willing to eat huge losses on the hardware for the first few years until manufacturing processes catches up on costs, while building a PSOne like iron glove stranglehold on the portable marketshare leadership.
2. PSP's technology is advanced enough to compete in the long haul.
Specs for the PSP is certainly well above the DS and anything else in the horizon. Just in polycount, PSP's 33 million per sec theoretical/8 million per sec practical just dwarfs the closest competitor in performance, which is the Tiger Telematic's Gizmondo (thanks to nVidia's GoForce 3D 4500 GPU), rated at 5 million per sec theoretical/sub 1 million per sec practical. DS's 120,000 polys per sec is not even in the same hemisphere.
I highly doubt PSP will compete anywhere near 10 years down the road, but for the next few years, it should compete handidly in 3D performance.
3. Nintendo's semi agressive pricing on the DS is forcing their hands.
$150 for DS is significantly lower than the $200 the anaylists and probably Sony were expecting. PSP's perceived value might eaily be 50% or so more over the DS to the consumers, but 100% more? Sony must have not thought so either. So their plans for $300 PSP went out the window with the Nintendo's TGS announcement (making for the unexpected silence on the PSP pricing plans back then).
Few months later, this is the reply by Sony. And the gloves are off.
** Possible wrenches in Sony's plans:
1. Even with the great value PSP now presents, PSP's poor battery performance could bring the early pro and consumer reviews down enough to slow down PSP adopation outside of hardcore gamers.
Negative vibe on the battery performance could be a spoiler for PSP's market build up until Sony solves the problem, which could be couple of years.
2. Competition could catch up in 3D performance quicker than expected.
nVidia and PowerVR has already shipped portable 3D chips to OEMs, and a Pocket PC with the PowerVR chip (essentially a slower but more feature filled version of the CLX graphics chip in the Dreamcast) has shipped in the form of the Dell Axim X50V. ATI will follow suit with their own 3D handheld chip in the coming months. Although they are only a fraction of the power (1/4~1/5 approximately) of the PSP's GPU, they do run cooler and drain less battery power.
And with the focus squarely on handheld 3D now, and all the potential uber cell phones and PDAs to be sold, the race is on in mobile 3D development. Next year should be intersting since even MS is making sure that the Pocket PC OS (Windows Mobile 2005) will have all the proper support for 3D with the inclusion of Diredt 3D mobile. IMG Tech (PowerVR), nVidia, and ATI, as well as others will be pouring on the money for the dominance of mobile 3D in the coming years. PSP could be superceded in 3D performance as quickly as 3~4 years, if PC 3D GPU development is anything to go by.
The question then becomes, would Sony would have gathered enough of the marketshare with the PSP by then to have enough command of the market and the dev support to twart the newcomers (one of them probably from Microsoft)?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
What are the chances really to lauch months later here and costs more? I doubt that has ever happened, especially because US gets lower prices on console hardware in 99% cases.
A few things:
Sony's been making the claim right alongside Nintendo, sorry to burst your bubble.
It'll be interesting to see if the Hardcore Gamer Bitch and Moan Express will swing both ways. One of the core arguments against the Game Boy is precisely that Nintendo stuck with the "same old, same old" for so long before delivering a portable, slightly enhanced SNES a few years ago.
Shogmaster said:
Sony's been making the claim right alongside Nintendo, sorry to burst your bubble.
Shogmaster said:
It'll be interesting to see if the Hardcore Gamer Bitch and Moan Express will swing both ways. One of the core arguments against the Game Boy is precisely that Nintendo stuck with the "same old, same old" for so long before delivering a portable, slightly enhanced SNES a few years ago.
Smiles and Cries
Member
a white psp would be nice
maybe I'll wait for that
maybe I'll wait for that
xsarien said:
Not only that...but when they tallk about the new price, they don't refer to Nintendo; they refer to iPods. They refer to pricing themselves as a low cost iPod, not a lower end of the high end handheld.
Sony doesn't just have their eyes set on Nintendo; they have bigger proverbial fish to fry, in their minds.
DS ia launching with a Pokemon game. DS has two Pokemon games in the pipeline. It's a Nintendo system. It's shipping more in its first week than the PSP is in this calendar year. Even in Japan, short term sales will go to the DS.
Long term...how the fuck can ANYONE predict where this will go? This should be interesting.
xsarien said:
Well you have to figure that for a system like PSP, it will probably be a few years until they've really got a perfect hang of the systems strengths and weaknesses and hit the limit visually. Then you look at the PS2 which has basically been maxed at this point but PS3 is still 1-2 years away.
So going by that model PSP should be able to last 5 years before they really get pinned down and say "Shit, we gotta release the next gen version". Also PSP's 10 years could be like the PS1's 10 years and in 5 years if they release a PSP2 and drop the PSP1 to barebones cheap they could repeat what their doing in the console market. At least I assume this is their train of thought at the moment.
seismologist
Banned
olimario said:
Maybe If your willing to wait until March when the PSP launches.
Shogmaster
Member
xsarien said:
But wasn't that just a transparent excuse to charge $300 or more for the PSP? Preparing the consumers for the sticker shock? We all saw through it. Now Sony doesn't have to make such excuses anymore. I expect them to change their official tune soon.
I think they'll be bitching more about Sony not letting devs push PSP more due to battery than anything else for the first few years.
I'll definitely be bitching along side with everyone if current tech PSP hangs around 6 or more years though.
Heh, it may be that those chips are efficient on their own but the Dell Axim battery life is around that of the worst PSP predictions, and that's on benchmarks that didn't use any 3d acceleration.Shogmaster said:
Those chips will only make things worse - as long as the hw they are coupled with is already a showcase for crap battery life, before you start adding MORE power draining stuff to it.
Drinky Crow
Banned
I've used touchscreens for well on five years now, and while the results may be different, they don't in ANY way provide BETTER fun than traditional controls -- and if fact, I'd argue that they're pretty cumbersome and LESS fun, especially after the novelty has worn off. Some of us haven't tapped out the fun in traditional controls by any stretch yet, and the DS sacrificing hardware performnace for novelty controls doesn't sit well with us, especially with all the specious rhetoric about "innovation" spewing out of Nintendo's panicked corporate offices.
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
Shog, just a couple of points:
Battery life is now quoted for gaming at 4 hours (with maximum screen brightness, 180cd/m2) to 6 hours (low screen brightness, 80cd/m2) Keep in mind that even at 80, that screen is lit simillar or better than most PDAs at maximum. I'd say that battery life is pretty damn good, actually. I wish I had a PDA with that level of performance that could last half as long.
10 years life span, I read the same way I read PS2 10 year life span. PSP2 will be on the market in 5-6 years, but PSP will co-exist and be sold for couple more years at low price.
Battery life is now quoted for gaming at 4 hours (with maximum screen brightness, 180cd/m2) to 6 hours (low screen brightness, 80cd/m2) Keep in mind that even at 80, that screen is lit simillar or better than most PDAs at maximum. I'd say that battery life is pretty damn good, actually. I wish I had a PDA with that level of performance that could last half as long.
10 years life span, I read the same way I read PS2 10 year life span. PSP2 will be on the market in 5-6 years, but PSP will co-exist and be sold for couple more years at low price.
Shogmaster
Member
Marconelly said:
Man, I'm so eager to do a personal testing on the battery peformance. I'm sick of guessing based on marketing claims.
If Sony really did improve the PSP battery performance over the previous accounts, then power to them. This could be a big potential spoiler for their plans tho.
Drinky Crow
Banned
Neither? Selecting small icons with a touch screen given depth issues and the obfuscation of the actual contact point by your digit/stylus isn't exactly fun, either.
Drinky Crow
Banned
aka, Pocket PC, plus loads of Tablet PC apps?
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