Makes me realize how long it's been since I've played XII because I don't remember this at all but good lord, what the hell...Nothing beats Elza from FFXII when it comes to thongs though.
This shit is not even sexy, it's hilarious:
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On Final Fantasy XV and female characters
- Thread starter pashmilla
- Start date
I like this.Nice art.
YankeeDonB
Member
Can't do an exhaustive list but these are the ones who spring to mind immediately:
Terra and Celes from FF VI
Freya from FF 9
Fang from FF XIII
Chris Lightfellow from Suikoden 3
Lyon from Suikoden 5
Kera from Witcher 3
Mitsuru from P3
Naoto from P4
Laura from ToCS
Kaine from Nier
Emma from Last Remnant
Bebedora from AtLTotS
Titania from Fire Emblem
I've played maybe an hour or two of that game and she just seemed obnoxiously, unbelievably airheaded and braying as girls can get in anime. Does she get any better? The game opened quite chatty and atm she is seriously one of the things holding me back from trying to get deeper into that game.
...
As to MediKing's question:
If I like a character in a game a lot of it is art/gameplay as long as characterization doesn't get in the way. It helps if it is charming, but it rarely is anything beyond that. So really the typical cute girl/good at magic coupled with doesn't make me want to vomit is enough to make me like a character if I like her design and game. What can make me want to vomit is just a catchall for annoying (to me), often tropey traits and obnoxious moral narratives (thinking something like Micaiah in RD).
I'd probably go with Samus as my favorite female video game 'character,' but I'm purposely ignoring the times she's actively characterized in saying such. It is entirely her cool power suit, the space adventures, and the awesome gameplay she is associated with.
As to actually characterized girls/women...I felt OoT Zelda was interesting and her precociousness was both her charm and what pushed the events she was trying to stop forward. Midna in TP was also good, even if her shifting stance as to taking advantage of you/giving herself up for you and revenge on light/not letting light fall to twilight's woes was mostly left to the background but I think that's who she was, not giving too much of herself openly.
I was also surprised going back to it years later how adult Freya in FFIX was allowed to be. That and being a dragoon makes her pretty cool in my book. I felt Yuna and Riku in FFX are well done, with Riku getting a bit too peppy for me but I'm quite fond of Yuna's seriousness, strength, and drive juxtaposed with her naivete and vulnerability. Never had much of a firm grasp on Lulu, though. In FF7, I liked Tifa and Yuffie but although I played it again as an adult, that all goes back to my childhood where I thought Tifa was cuter than Aeris, was put off by Aeris constantly hitting on cloud, and just generally liked quiet, seemingly mature, martial arts girl. I think I just found Yuffie cute and her ridiculous thief personality endearing. My point is I don't really remember them at any deeper level than that.
Recently I played Persona 3 and 4 and the characters in general, including the girls stood out to me in those games, particularly 4. I liked all 3 of them and Nanako.
...
But yeah, going through videogame characters is pretty much going to be like the above for me. I mostly play games with fairly muted characterization, even when they're chatty (look at avatar).
Freya, Garnet & Beatrix from FF9
Ashe from FF12
Ellie from TLOU
Aqua from KHbbs
The White Witch (prior to the ending) from Ni No Kuni
There's probably a few more that are slipping from my head tbh. And a bunch more from games I haven't played, but i figured it'd be better to list ones whose games I have played
That's some good art. Really like how they went into really high detail with the hair and with the patterns on Iris' cloths.
Also this looked awesome
Agreed.
I can totally picture someone at SE going "you cant see her womanly figure or her ass in that outfit!"
I find that hard to believe since you and others specifically mention the shot is there to highlight her backside. Of course, this all depends on the fit of the mechanics overalls but say, if it were the fanart ones users posted in this thread, those won't do any favors in accentuating her backside. But you're free to feel however you feel about the camera angles.
Another thing I want to point out, I use that Cid gif to put forth the hypothetical scenario if Cidney (w/ her outfit) was the one walking and being introduced in that manner, it'd be much worse because as another user pointed out, it would have just been ass ass ass ass ass. But that scene is never intended to be provocative but it would become so with Cidney (w/ her outfit). So is that too the fault of leering camera angles? In my opinion, no. It is much more the fault of the outfit. Does that mean that the camera angle introducing Cidney (w/her outfit) wasn't intentionally trying to show off her backside? No, but it is much more of a problem with the outfit existing because these camera angles exist because her clothes.
And I am still not agreeing that there are tons of intentional leering angles rather than just being the fault of the outfit's existence. But oh wait, my point was that "camera angles are interchangeable" (btw, this last line isn't in response to you Eden, but to the drive-by shit-poster)
Yeah, game looks like a brofest lol. Kinda odd since the series' character designs had mostly been enjoyable and diverse for a long time and seemed to be progressing up until XV. Oh well. Never played FF7 so there's still that remake to look forward to depending on how it turns out.
belteshazzar
Member
Are you really this oblivious? It's called satire. You know what? Never mind, carry on. Oh, when I wrote I didn't understand what you said I was actually mocking your spelling abilities, but I guess you didn't catch that either.
Poe's law: Read up on it
Edit: the fact that searching Poe's law now defaults to Conservapedia which has a bastardization of the real meaning is super disheartening
I feel that it is a combination of the angles and the outfit, change one and its not so bad. But we have both, the camera can be moved by the player to zoom in on Cindy, I won't do that in my play through, but its interesting that the option and the results are part of the marketing of the game. That is how Cindy is being used and why I object.
And then there is VR
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJL0Me00I4Q#t=1m08s
This is Giantbomb discussing the demo on their E3 show
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKKdIyUL0to#t=3h26m19s
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
Yes. Wouldn't have named her otherwise. Her arc and character growth is really well done.
Well change the outfit, and then none of it is so bad. Change the camera angles, I believe it would still be bad unless the camera never focused on anything but her face or doesn't show any of the ridiculous parts of her design.
Now I haven't watch every single piece of footage but when every person with a youtube channel can post their experience with it, doesn't the fault lie much more with the player than it does the marketing? I mean when they have their official demo'ers royally suck at the game, yeah, what are they thinking with that marketing? But on the official VR reveal, they don't do anything like the clip you posted. On the NieR: Automata gameplay demo stage they did, one of the voice actors demo'ing the game attempted to get a certain angle on the female main character, and the game designer told him he mustn't do that. Sure, it's the marketing's fault for having him demo it at all, but did the marketing team actually want him to do that? Probably not.
I think that is the sole purpose for its inclusion. She's not stood next to you, you are strategically placed in a confined space with her, and it gives the player the perfect opportunity to look at her however they want. In the other clip I posted they talk about one person trying the demo, who didn't want to be seen looking at her. So he had to sit completely still and not turn his head to the left at all. Can you really say that is how they intend players to experience that scene? Like they are wearing a neck brace? I don't believe it for one second, she is there for players to get a good long look at her and thats it, in fact its actually difficult not to look at her.
But there's a difference between looking at her and doing what the guy in the clip shows. And the Giant Bomb guys mention how ridiculous it is and they also mention how it is also because of her outfit. Yes, part of that demo is to look at her, but I see it as a date scenario rather than getting off your seat to go look at every nook and cranny of her's because you're supposed to be sitting in a car. I'd say it is much more the scenario you're stating if they gave you warp points to look around while she is working on the Regalia (which many of the camera controlled leering shots are from).
Not completely to do with the topic on hand, but I just know there's gonna be a lot of Prompto fawning over Cidney and probably even a side quest over it. People can also take that to criticisms of her character.
poodaddy
Member
Thank you!
And yes you suck*, come on, get on that Suikoden!.
It's on the list I swear it! I'm finally finishing up Front Mission 3, then I have to finish Xenoblade Chronicles, then Shin Megami Tensei 4, and Suikoden is top priority after that. I'm committed to this schedule this time! Lol
Dark_castle
Junior Member
On Cindy, a personal nitpick of mine. I think her hairstyle is awkward and fugly. It looked so...1980. Her hair reminds me of Malboro. Say what you want about Tifa, her classic, silky long straight hair looked really clean, tidy and attractive, for me at least.
In no particular order:
Rosalina from Super Mario (though I do like Peach as well)
Palutena from Kid Icarus - particularly Uprising
Lucina from Fire Emblem Awakening
Samus from Metroid
Maya Fey and Ema Skye from Ace Attorney
Tifa from Final Fantasy VII (Aeris and Yuffie are great too, mind)
Kat from Gravity Rush
Mercy, Tracer and Pharah from Overwatch (Hell, I love most of the OW female cast - and the cast in general)
Elena from Uncharted
Bayonetta
All of this, and also : Tia from Ys Seven.
Weltall Zero
Member
I don't intend to be thought-provoking, beyond the thought that if the knee-jerk "argument" you're about to use has been immortalised into a bingo card, perhaps it's been used too many times and taken apart in too many threads to contribute anything at all to the discussion other than a swift derail. More often than not these statements don't intend to generate discussion but rather to stop it dead in its tracks; this is evident in the fact that they are used in wildly different discussions as a "catch-all" stopped for anything against the poster's ideals (which more often than not are isomorphic to the status quo). Basically, if you were going to use any of the above, please don't.
I think it could be a great idea to create a generic thread addressing each of these arguments, once and for all, and allow discussion regarding those to continue there, instead of derailing specific topic threads over and over.
FairFriend
Member
Kate Walker - Syberia
Jade - Beyond Good & Evil
Jennifer - Primal
Will update if more come to my mind
Vlaphor
Member
I honestly do believe that the feedback against Cidney isn't as big as it appears. Either that, or Square has received enough pro-Cidney comments to cancel out the anti-Cidney comments.
Keep in mind that these characters aren't just for this game. SE is trying to make FF XV a franchise of its own, and Cidney definitely has huge merchandise appeal.
Even more... interesting... is that they acknowledge the backlash and have talked about how some fans have spoke up about it and don't like how revealing she is.
Poor Cidney... from "first female Cid!" to "wait, she's dressed like that?" to "actually, we're calling her Cindy in the west, so she's NOT a Cid" to "she's not even the real Cid. She's just the real Cid's granddaughter".
I haven't seen a character stumble and fall that quickly prior to release since, I don't know, Stella.
If there isn't any sequel, then the game stops here regardless of the merchandise they make
What does Stella have to do with this?
And as I said before, both sides do this. The fact that you're saying you don't intend to have any discussion with your post is an issue I have with these threads. I know why the things on the bingo post are terrible arguments. I know why the initial responses to my posts dealing with Cidney were bullshit. But maybe some users are just ignorant as to why they are or maybe some are just bigots. It's your job to inform these users or at least "say look at post #xx to see why you're stupid" if you want the thread to have any meaningful discussion in the future. Else they'll come into a new thread with nothing changed.
You can take it that way but she's not just Cid's granddaughter and that's it. And she'll still be a female Cid to me seeing as the grandfather is seemingly just there to be the wise old man character, while she actually works on your vehicle. But we'll see, maybe Cid is the one that actually installed/activates the airship mode. And I'm under the impression they changed her name because Cindy is a more common female name. You can still take issue with that but localizations are a whole 'nother thing I take issue with.
Cidney was never Cid from the very beginning. When did that narrative spawn itself? Not that it doesn't excuse criticism of any particular character.
I'd say Cid himself has as much relevance if not more. Yeah, Cidney's facilitating the couple of the quests at the beginning of the game, but he's a one the characters associated with Cor and Regis, being part of Regis' group in the past, and begin playable in a spinoff game. He also mods your weapons in the game.
I'd say Cid himself has as much relevance if not more. Yeah, Cidney's facilitating the couple of the quests at the beginning of the game, but he's a one the characters associated with Cor and Regis, being part of Regis' group in the past, and begin playable in a spinoff game. He also mods your weapons in the game.
Pinko Marx
Banned
She's Cidney in Japan in German and French localizations...
Three against one and we do know that the English localization does take some other strange liberties. Like: "We want Noctis to sound like Christian Bale in Batman."
Well of course she's not Cid she's Cidney, the female Cid. She playing Cid's role more than the Cid in the game so I still think she's the Cid of this game. And it's not hard for others to believe this narrative also.
I'd say Cid himself has as much relevance if not more. Yeah, Cidney's facilitating the couple of the quests at the beginning of the game, but he's a one the characters associated with Cor and Regis, being part of Regis' group in the past, and begin playable in a spinoff game. He also mods your weapons in the game, and Cidney does paint jobs for your car.
And in what previous Final Fantasies does Cid deal with your weapons and which deal with your Airship (vehicle of transportation)? And why push that narrative of your edit? She's the one who fixes and tows your car and runs the business. Another user posted a quote from Cid that he does diddly squat (he probably still does also work on the Regalia since he is probably more familiar with it's custom features or maybe not)
Vlaphor
Member
It doesn't need to have a game sequel. It already has a movie and an anime, and I'm sure it can go the prequel route if need be.
Final Fantasy VII had a movie, an anime, a prequel, a sequel that was of a different genre, spin-offs in various formats, is getting a multi-game remake, and has had tons and tons of merch. With all the effort that SE is putting into FFXV, I wouldn't be surprised to see them try to take this same route to enhanced profitability, and the more varied characters they have to merch out in a wide variety of formats, the better for them.
In my opinion, because it happened after she got
secretly hijacked by Zelda's soul
Ffs, how does "it's not the camera" not mean they're not interchangeable?
If you use '&' in the URL, it will also work for mobile.
But FF15 isn't FF7 though. They can't milk it that far and expect people to care about the merchandise, especially if it isn't related to the game. Its going to be a tough job.
The one true Goddess.
Read what you just wrote. Take what you wrote literally, compare the statements "it's not the camera" (which also isn't the complete issue) and "the camera is interchangeable (btw, wtf do you even mean by this?).
Type more than half a line. Just because you're on mobile does not mean it's okay to post thoughts that are only dismissive and do not lead to any discussion.
If you took Cid's camera pan for Cidney, it would offend just as much as her original one.
If you took Cidney's camera pan for Cid, it would work just as well.
Okay, so I don't see how my point boils down just to that (which btw, I've explicitly stated what my argument/issue/point was). Especially since I've never presented the scenario of the second statement. But let's say that was my entire argument (which it wasn't). Would that camera pan not "work" with anyone other character?
This is a legitimate question I'm asking to further a discussion (not exactly the same one I brought up with Jennipeg, which I guess was also brought up by others earlier in the thread). Not just some question trying to bait some snarky response.
RIP
Weltall Zero
Member
What the flying fuck? How is it my job to educate every ignorant drive-by poster? When did I sign up for it and what's the salary? Also, how would that not derail he thread even further? You're grasping at straws to find something more reprehensible with posting that bingo card than with using those arguments in the first place, and it's nothing short of hilarious to watch how progressively ridiculous your arguments get.
If you come into a thread without the slightest hint of background knowledge, don't bother to read any of it, and spew a tired cliche that's not even true to try to stop the discussion in its tracks, you damn well deserve to be mocked. If you were really interested in the issue you would have not done any of he above, so why should I either assume you're willing to educate yourself now or take it upon myself to do so? My estimation is that being shown how clichéd you are should have a higher chance to make you give pause, reconsider and maybe even stop to read. Better yet, by showing people these cliches right there in the first page they might even refrain from regurgitating them in the first place, sparing the inevitable derail.
You've said it yourself, a sexualised getup would suddenly imply a male gaze.
Grasping at straws? Can you tell me what exactly is the point of this discussion thread then? Is it actually to inform users on the issue presented and discuss it? Or was it created just for users that already know the issue to just agree with and pile on their complaints? Or was it just so everyone could list their favorite female characters?What the flying fuck? How is it my job to educate every ignorant drive-by poster? When did I sign up for it and what's the salary? Also, how would that not derail he thread even further? You're grasping at straws to find something more reprehensible with posting that bingo card than with using those arguments in the first place, and it's nothing short of hilarious to watch how progressively ridiculous your arguments get.
If you come into a thread without the slightest hint of background knowledge, don't bother to read any of it, and spew a tired cliche that's not even true to try to stop the discussion in its tracks, you damn well deserve to be mocked. If you were really interested in the issue you would have not done any of he above, so why should I either assume you're willing to educate yourself now or take it upon myself to do so? My estimation is that being shown how clichéd you are should have a higher chance to make you give pause, reconsider and maybe even stop to read. Better yet, by showing people these cliches right there in the first page they might even refrain from regurgitating them in the first place, sparing the inevitable derail.
You can do or not do whatever the hell you want. I am pointing out whatever you are doing, doesn't elicit a discussion on the topic at hand. Posting a bingo sheet of clichéd arguments/excuses does not inform a user on why they're wrong, only that they're clichéd. And sure, maybe the chart does do what you say it might do. Is that better than users knowing why it's wrong? (which btw, stopping to read the entire OP and 100 posts after it still doesn't tell a user why it's wrong) I'm just holding users to a higher posting standard on an issue they want to discuss (I don't know why though, when I guess everyone is just fine with shallow drivel). Or maybe I'm just trying to derail the thread.
You can do whatever the fuck you want. If you don't want or care about the issue I'm bringing up, don't reply, ignore me, or put me on your ignore list.
That doesn't really answer the question, but does her design not elicit the male gaze? Isn't that part of the idea and issue of the "male gaze". That these characters were designed by men or women so they can look pretty and be ogled by men?
SilverArrow20XX
Walks in the Light of the Crystal
While Rikku has mechanical expertise, her profession seems to be sea floor scavenging, during which she wears a wet suit over her bikini. A swimsuit is definitely not an odd garment for a diver.
Rubicante is Greek god proportions and is wearing nothing but a speedo and a cape. He also opens up his cape to show his glorious body regularly. There are also just as many, or more, near naked male enemies, including final bosses. Xande, Neo Exdeath, God Kefka, Safer Sephiroth. Godlike body with loincloth is super common in the series. Male and female.
Best post is best post.
Alex_Mexico
Member
Is that in addition the part 3 you were doing for this thread? Or is that instead of part 3?
vainglorious
Member
lol Your thread got Modbotted so fast