'Online Video Games Not Yet Big Winner For Microsoft, Sony'

sonycowboy said:
LOL! hassle-free is not what I'd call PC gaming by any stretch. The console setups couldn't be simpler in terms of network connections.
Nice try, but a troll is a troll -- that was a thinly disguised shot at PC gaming. Unfortunately, it has nothing to do with this discussion.

As much as you want to claim that online gaming with a console is plug-and-play, it's only true if you've done the work beforehand to configure the "back end" of the cable. If you don't know how to set up DSL/cable with a router in the first place, you're not going to be able to get your Xbox/PS2 working online either. But, if you have enough savvy to set up that connection...then how could it possibly be hard to play a PC game online? Start the game, and the server browser comes right up. Piece of cake.
 
T-1000_Model3 said:
So can someone answer my question? How easy/difficult is it to set up your netwoek adapter with Sony's service if youre using DSL? Is it about the same as tweaking it if you had already done so with dial up,or is there more jumping around involved?
Easy if you put it behind a router :) I've switched from a broadband cable subscription to a DSL subscription. After reconfiguring the router for this, I've been able to use the same PS2 network configuration as I was before. The reconfiguration on the router is probably by the same as would probably needed if you connected the PS2 directly to the DSL modem - very easy, only a couple of settings are different.
 
SolidSnakex said:
That wasn't really my point. It's really hard to judge which online games will or won't be a success. My point was that by going online, both Sony and MS have assured that their gamers will get Burnout 3 while Nintendo has basically assured that their gamers won't.
Give it time... Alex Ward answers to EA now. ;)
 
kaching said:
Easy if you put it behind a router :) I've switched from a broadband cable subscription to a DSL subscription. After reconfiguring the router for this, I've been able to use the same PS2 network configuration as I was before. The reconfiguration on the router is probably by the same as would probably needed if you connected the PS2 directly to the DSL modem - very easy, only a couple of settings are different.

It's better than some settings on a PC, if anything. Assign an IP number, open it up on your router, voila. However, it's easier on Win XP SP1, as with most online games, I've never had to assign port numbers to PC games, and the automatic IP assignment to network cards were convenient.
 
IJoel said:
Whoever thought profit was going to be gained shortly after starting an online service of this magnitude was simply out of their minds.

Come next generation, we'll see if Nintendo will be laughing at all the work they have ahead of themselves, in building an infrastructure for an online service (if they go this way, which seems to be the way Sony will be going) and more importantly, building an audience for which the developers will see market potential.

Nintendo's IPs are so incredibly strong that all they have to do is make a half assed online infrastructure and the people will come running. So Nintendo are fools in the sense that they aren't online given their titles popularity.
 
kaching said:
Easy if you put it behind a router :) I've switched from a broadband cable subscription to a DSL subscription. After reconfiguring the router for this, I've been able to use the same PS2 network configuration as I was before. The reconfiguration on the router is probably by the same as would probably needed if you connected the PS2 directly to the DSL modem - very easy, only a couple of settings are different.

Thanks for the information,much appreciated. Hmmm-I was on dial up when I went online with the network adapter. Later-when I switched to a DSL subscription-and Xbox Live,I used the auto configuration setting as all the stuff that was to be typed in was done for me. I never got around to playing any of my PS2 online games since I sold them off awhile back(Everquest.) I guess the toughest part will be that I have never configured a router for online play then. Going by your post though-it doesn't seem all that difficult,which is good to hear.

So the main hurdle to climb would be configuring my router. I'm sure it can't be too difficult.
 
I find it utterly ridiculous now nintendonuts use the lack of profit in online gaming to cheer on their console. Since when do we as gamers get a share of those profits or suffer those losses. I have had a great time in the last couple of years playing Rainbow 6 three, socom 1 and 2, counter strike, final fantasy 11, everquest online adventures, project gotham racing 2, SSX 3, Midnight club , Mechassault, XIII, tony hawk 3, 4 and underground.

Anyone who says online gaming is a waste of time is an asshole. Honestly I've had a blast. I consider online a feature and would refuse to buy Splinter Cell, NFSU2, or any other title on the cube that I could get with online play on another system. So those are lost sales to Nintendo, maybe I am the only one who thinks this way but I doubt it.
 
efralope said:
then why did Pandora Tomorrow, RSC2, and Project Gotham sell massively less than their online-less predecessors?

because sequals have sold less on every system this generation (Silent Hill, DMC, etc.). Madden and Vice City are the only games that have sold more than the original. ESPN NFL 2K5 now fits into that category, but that has more to do with price.
 
wipeout364 said:
I consider online a feature and would refuse to buy Splinter Cell, NFSU2, or any other title on the cube that I could get with online play on another system. So those are lost sales to Nintendo, maybe I am the only one who thinks this way but I doubt it.

Nope, those are lost sales to EA and Ubi Soft. Nintendo made their money when the discs were pressed :)
 
wipeout364 said:
Anyone who says online gaming is a waste of time is an asshole.

And for some of us online still manages to be a waste of time. All the Live games I wanted to play had virtually no one playing and the PS2 games fared no better except FFXI. I'm an asshole because I enjoy other games?
Nintendo said they'd go online when it became both profitable to them and easy/affordable for the consumer. I for one don't mind when a company sticks to their word even if it may not make me happy.
But then again this is a topic that doesn't matter to me.
 
SolidSnakex said:
So are Sony and MS execs..

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:)


Yes i wonder how many pple who end up buying this game will play it online.....its just a PR excuse for not making a GC version......you're not going to tell me that there will be more players playing it online than the ones who wont......
 
Bluemercury said:
Yes i wonder how many pple who end up buying this game will play it online.....its just a PR excuse for not making a GC version......you're not going to tell me that there will be more players playing it online than the ones who wont......

It could very well be a PR excuse, or it could be that some developers are starting to take online gaming alot more seriously because they see it's going to be big. The point is though that Sony and MS are getting games the GC isn't and the reason developers are giving is Nintendo's lack of interest in online gaming. Nintendo can continue to ignore this, and Nintendo fans can continue to believe it's just an "excuse", but all it's going to accomplish is the GC (and possibly Revolution) getting less and less 3rd party games because of it.
 
It's fucking amazing that as consumers some of you retards are actually arguing for lesser value for your bucks.
 
An excuse is an excuse is an excuse. Nintendo is basically saying to developers: "here's the online adaptors, here's the tools, you do the rest" so basically, if the developers want to take the risk to take the games online...**then here's a concept**...build a service yourself and do it!!! *cough*PSO*cough* Nintendo's not restricting them, in fact GameSpy, Sega's S.N.A.P. & Warp Pipe all have tools they can use to take games online on GAMECUBE. Hell...Warp Pipe is so damned easy all developers would really have to do is impliment LAN play into games and BLAM...Warp Pipe can do the rest. But publishers don't wanna take the risk...they want the console manufacturer's to do it for them...pfft. If these publishers were really serious about the "future" (online gaming) then they'd do their part in making it possible on GAMECUBE...and really, if it's such a wanted feature then Nintendo has made it even easier for them by giving them a starved market for it by not making online games themselves. Then I can hear the excuse that: "Nintendo doesn't make online games, so we won't 'cos Nintendo didn't create a market for it"...yeah right, another excuse 'cos if Nintendo officially put Double Dash, F~ZERO, Kirby, SSBros.:Melee, etc. online then they'd say: "there's no use making our games online for GAMECUBE 'cos Nintendo's got that market cornered for themselves". Again...an excuse is and excuse is an excuse.
 
"If these publishers were really serious about the "future" (online gaming) then they'd do their part in making it possible on GAMECUBE."

They're serious about it on systems where the manufacturer is serious about it also. Nintendo isn't serious about online play at all, and they're basically telling their fans that online gaming isn't worth it right now which is why they aren't going online. So why should 3rd parties bother with it?

You can say that developers would still turn the GC down even if Nintendo was online, but that's only specualtion. We do know that they turn them down because they aren't supporting it. So till they do, and they still don't support the GC we won't know.
 
DrGAKMAN said:
An excuse is an excuse is an excuse. Nintendo is basically saying to developers: "here's the online adaptors, here's the tools, you do the rest" so basically, if the developers want to take the risk to take the games online...**then here's a concept**...build a service yourself and do it!!! *cough*PSO*cough* Nintendo's not restricting them, in fact GameSpy, Sega's S.N.A.P. & Warp Pipe all have tools they can use to take games online on GAMECUBE. Hell...Warp Pipe is so damned easy all developers would really have to do is impliment LAN play into games and BLAM...Warp Pipe can do the rest. But publishers don't wanna take the risk...they want the console manufacturer's to do it for them...pfft. If these publishers were really serious about the "future" (online gaming) then they'd do their part in making it possible on GAMECUBE...and really, if it's such a wanted feature then Nintendo has made it even easier for them by giving them a starved market for it by not making online games themselves. Then I can hear the excuse that: "Nintendo doesn't make online games, so we won't 'cos Nintendo didn't create a market for it"...yeah right, another excuse 'cos if Nintendo officially put Double Dash, F~ZERO, Kirby, SSBros.:Melee, etc. online then they'd say: "there's no use making our games online for GAMECUBE 'cos Nintendo's got that market cornered for themselves". Again...an excuse is and excuse is an excuse.
true, people here (not necessarily 3rd parties, I'm sure they don't want to ruin relationships with Nintendo with the videogames market being so volatile) point to the fact that Nintendo games sell way more than 3rd party games on the system, so why bother.

An excuse is an excuse. I think Microsoft had more to do with EA on XBox Live than did EA, and Nintendo just isn't ready to dish out a pricey contract for something that would not be helping any sort of service plan or anything for them.

I think Nintendo will be more ready next generation, as broadband adoption increases, prices for networks and servers goes down probably, and they start with a plan from the beginning where profitability is a possibility.
 
Shoryuken said:
Net Profit = approximately $202,876,000 (2nd quarter)

I'm sure Nintendo would love to have Sony's game division's "bad year" [/sarcasm]

No, that is a very bad Nintendo quarter as well.

See Nintendo's corporate info on their home site. Note that those figures do not include Pokemon company.
 
ypo said:
It's fucking amazing that as consumers some of you retards are actually arguing for lesser value for your bucks.

It's because Nintendo's bottom line seems to be more important than overall gaming experience for some.
 
"I think Nintendo will be more ready next generation, as broadband adoption increases, prices for networks and servers goes down probably, and they start with a plan from the beginning where profitability is a possibility."

The thing is - setting up this infra and tech is tricky and has a host of issues as the XBL and the Sony online set up will have undoubtably found.

When Nintendo finally decide that online is profitable enough for them to bother with, then the XBL and Sony equivalent will have already racked up big numbers of players interested in online gaming. I'd imagine they'd have ironed out a lot of the issues involved with online gaming as well as adding lots of new content features, play ladders etc. Nintendo are going to have to go through this a good 2-3 (4?) years after the other two big players will have it down to a fine art.

Some times you have to do things that aren't profitable to keep your hand up. We should have been playing online Nintendo content THIS gen.
 
DCharlie said:
"I think Nintendo will be more ready next generation, as broadband adoption increases, prices for networks and servers goes down probably, and they start with a plan from the beginning where profitability is a possibility."

The thing is - setting up this infra and tech is tricky and has a host of issues as the XBL and the Sony online set up will have undoubtably found.

When Nintendo finally decide that online is profitable enough for them to bother with, then the XBL and Sony equivalent will have already racked up big numbers of players interested in online gaming. I'd imagine they'd have ironed out a lot of the issues involved with online gaming as well as adding lots of new content features, play ladders etc. Nintendo are going to have to go through this a good 2-3 (4?) years after the other two big players will have it down to a fine art.

Some times you have to do things that aren't profitable to keep your hand up. We should have been playing online Nintendo content THIS gen.

IAWTP
 
ypo said:
It's fucking amazing that as consumers some of you retards are actually arguing for lesser value for your bucks.

I don't think they are arguing for lesser value. but when ventures continue to generate losses for companies either those ventures need to be ceased (Nintendo's SNES online gaming), the company goes belly up (SEGA), or it pisses off investors (Xbox). Sony's overall profit margin is about 1.5%. That is VERY risky. If you have profit margins like that you have to dominate or you are nearly certain to die a grisly death. Not opinion, just cold economic fact.
 
segasonic said:
This just in: 'Online Video Games Big Winner For Gamers'



+1 Xbox and PS2 owners
This just in...some of us have Live, have had it since and launch and now don't give a shit about online.
+1 for being awesome.
 
P90 said:
I don't think they are arguing for lesser value. but when ventures continue to generate losses for companies either those ventures need to be ceased (Nintendo's SNES online gaming), the company goes belly up (SEGA), or it pisses off investors (Xbox). Sony's overall profit margin is about 1.5%. That is VERY risky. If you have profit margins like that you have to dominate or you are nearly certain to die a grisly death. Not opinion, just cold economic fact.

SNES online gaming? Are you talking about that Xband thing? Are you even trying to compare that to Xbox Live/PS2 online!?!

Also if my hobby was economics I'd join one of the economics clubs at my Uni..my hobby is gaming, it's fun you should try it sometime, highly recommended.


evilromero said:
This just in...some of us have Live, have had it since and launch and now don't give a shit about online.
+1 for being awesome.

and..?
 
kpop100 said:
SNES online gaming? Are you talking about that Xband thing? Are you even trying to compare that to Xbox Live/PS2 online!?!

Also if my hobby was economics I'd join one of the economics clubs at my Uni..my hobby is gaming, it's fun you should try it sometime, highly recommended.




and..?
Don't ever change.
 
DCharlie said:
"I think Nintendo will be more ready next generation, as broadband adoption increases, prices for networks and servers goes down probably, and they start with a plan from the beginning where profitability is a possibility."

The thing is - setting up this infra and tech is tricky and has a host of issues as the XBL and the Sony online set up will have undoubtably found.

When Nintendo finally decide that online is profitable enough for them to bother with, then the XBL and Sony equivalent will have already racked up big numbers of players interested in online gaming. I'd imagine they'd have ironed out a lot of the issues involved with online gaming as well as adding lots of new content features, play ladders etc. Nintendo are going to have to go through this a good 2-3 (4?) years after the other two big players will have it down to a fine art.

Some times you have to do things that aren't profitable to keep your hand up. We should have been playing online Nintendo content THIS gen.

Yeah, this is exactly how I see it, as well. MS and Sony will be known for having online gaming as a significant feature of their consoles going forward, while Nintendo will not. People looking at playing games online, in addition to the more prevalent offline fare will simply not think of Nintendo when making their decisions to purchase a new system. Nintendo has effectively made themselves 'the one who doesn't want online' to the average gamer. It's a feature, but one that can be implemented in nearly any game out there. I think the online gaming segment on consoles will be at least triple what it is now come next-gen's first full year (when all three are on the market).
 
I'm less concerned with the people who prefer to stick their heads in the sand over online gaming because Nintendo isn't doing it, and more concerned with those who seem to be wholeheartedly embracing the idea of paying subscription fees for basic peer-to-peer stuff. :|

As far as I'm concerned, online play is a great bullet point for a game, but I don't want to be constantly playing for a service that I may or may not be using regularly depending on what games I'm playing at the moment. From the sound of those in the various online threads who once had Xbox Live and didn't end up using it much, they probably understand what I'm talking about.
 
I look at the subscription fee the same way I look at cable tv fees. Plenty of people pay for HBO, Showtime, etc. monthly but hardly ever look at it unless there's a movie/show/special they want to see. Does it make sense from a financial standpoint? Hell no as thats money you could save by calling in and switching it off during a slow month and doing the legwork of looking at the schedule to see whats upcoming. But it's all about convenience in this day and age and having to do that aint convenient at all. Most would rather live with it than without it so they leave well enough alone and continue to pay.
 
not a console/online bash but I have BB and I have consoles and a kick ass machine.... and I personally couldn't be arsed playing online.

I think for a casual gamer - its something they might get into.. if they were exposed to it. I believe console BB/Online fanatics are just that - they love their game; they love the tech and they love to dish out the hate to Nintendo... (feel free to mix that up).

This amuses me. Nintendo really did NAIL it

R E S P E C T for the doomed devco.
 
This amuses me. Nintendo really did NAIL it
There are few within this forum or within the industry who haven't long acknowledged that online console gaming is in its nascent stages and that it will be this way for at least a few years to come. Nintendo's predictions are little different from what the rest of the industry and its watchers have been saying. What's different is their course of action and it is yet to be proven whether that will ultimately be the smartest course for them (or others) to take.
 
jarrod said:
Unless, you're Microsoft, then you can just spend until the shareholders get wise. ;)

Cause we all know great gaming and pleasing shareholders are synonymous. What's Nintendo's stock price down to now?
 
PhatSaqs said:
I look at the subscription fee the same way I look at cable tv fees. Plenty of people pay for HBO, Showtime, etc. monthly but hardly ever look at it unless there's a movie/show/special they want to see. Does it make sense from a financial standpoint? Hell no as thats money you could save by calling in and switching it off during a slow month and doing the legwork of looking at the schedule to see whats upcoming. But it's all about convenience in this day and age and having to do that aint convenient at all. Most would rather live with it than without it so they leave well enough alone and continue to pay.

The cable connection is like my internet connection. I pay the basic fee for the connection and I get the basic channels/peer-to-peer play. The extra fees for specialty channels are like the extra fees for server-intensive games like MMORPGs. This analogy works better for me than it does for you. :P

We've had free online peer-to-peer for ages. Accepting encroaching fees in this area would be a mistake.
 
SolidSnakex said:
It could very well be a PR excuse, or it could be that some developers are starting to take online gaming alot more seriously because they see it's going to be big. The point is though that Sony and MS are getting games the GC isn't and the reason developers are giving is Nintendo's lack of interest in online gaming. Nintendo can continue to ignore this, and Nintendo fans can continue to believe it's just an "excuse", but all it's going to accomplish is the GC (and possibly Revolution) getting less and less 3rd party games because of it.

Well all that you said dont change the fact that Online console games is still in its infancy and that more pple without online will going to play Burnout3 so why not a GC version?its just an excuse period......

"Nintendo can continue to ignore this, and Nintendo fans can continue to believe it's just an "excuse", but all it's going to accomplish is the GC (and possibly Revolution) getting less and less 3rd party games because of it."

And probably gonna see more companies like Acclain going down.......this industry is in ashaken ground right now, companies risking for online content and then not generating the necessary income are just going to ask for trouble.....wasnt EA who said there will be many companies going down next year???
 
Sea Manky said:
The cable connection is like my internet connection. I pay the basic fee for the connection and I get the basic channels/peer-to-peer play. The extra fees for specialty channels are like the extra fees for server-intensive games like MMORPGs. This analogy works better for me than it does for you. :P

We've had free online peer-to-peer for ages. Accepting encroaching fees in this area would be a mistake.
Yeah. I'm not looking at it from a server based vs. peer to peer standpoint though. I dont really care about that stuff. And really, I dont see why anyone should care what type of structure the service has as long as it offers the ability to play and enjoy the games they want to play with as little LAG influence as possible . That's the most important aspect to me. And for that, i'm definitley willing to pay for.
 
PhatSaqs said:
Yeah. I'm not looking at it from a server based vs. peer to peer standpoint though. I dont really care about that stuff. And really, I dont see why anyone should care what type of structure the service has as long as it offers the ability to play and enjoy the games they want to play with as little LAG influence as possible . That's the most important aspect to me. And for that, i'm definitley willing to pay for.

...

Do you seriously believe that XBL eliminates lag?

Do you even understand how peer-to-peer gaming works?

It's like this. When you connect to the network with your basic peer-to-peer game, the game connects to a matching server, where you find people to play with. When you start a game, everyone's console gets the network addresses of everyone else's console from the matching server, and then the game starts. At this point, the matching server has no further involvement in the game. During the game, all communications between the peers are direct, through their own connections to the internet. Any lag is completely dependant on the intervening backbones and routers and communication lines between the players, none of which are owned or controlled by Microsoft.

You aren't paying for reduced lag. It's impossible for a matching server to reduce lag during a peer-to-peer game.
 
kpop100 said:
Also if my hobby was economics I'd join one of the economics clubs at my Uni..my hobby is gaming, it's fun you should try it sometime, highly recommended.

?
Try thinking outside your personal universe and you might get what he's saying.

Make sure you comment on it then!

What, is this supposed to "own" me?
A lot of people are going on as if its stupid to be uninterested in online gaming, or that since the Gamecube lacks online, you're getting less bang for your buck. This topic doesn't matter to me because there's a lack of online games that interest me, but to ignore that people may have valid reasons for not giving a rat's ass about online gaming is ridiculous.
 
Sea Manky said:
...

Do you seriously believe that XBL eliminates lag?

Do you even understand how peer-to-peer gaming works?

It's like this. When you connect to the network with your basic peer-to-peer game, the game connects to a matching server, where you find people to play with. When you start a game, everyone's console gets the network addresses of everyone else's console from the matching server, and then the game starts. At this point, the matching server has no further involvement in the game. During the game, all communications between the peers are direct, through their own connections to the internet. Any lag is completely dependant on the intervening backbones and routers and communication lines between the players, none of which are owned or controlled by Microsoft.

You aren't paying for reduced lag. It's impossible for a matching server to reduce lag during a peer-to-peer game.
To answer your question, yes I understand the difference between the two, but you completely missed my point which is: Why would I, or anyone for that matter, care about how it works, why it works they way it does, etc. if it works and works well? I'm paying for the ability to play the games I want to play online, against other peeps, "with as little LAG influence as possible". I dont care how they do it, just do it. If games were severly lag influenced, I wouldnt pay for it regardless of what topology is being used.

And of course a matching server cant influence the connections once they are established, but the software can. And I bet this'll become more and more commonplace in online gaming as more and more people obtain fast net access. Especially with games increasing the amount of traffic that they want to send. Scaling a central server to keep up with this trend is almost impossible.
 
"Well all that you said dont change the fact that Online console games is still in its infancy and that more pple without online will going to play Burnout3 so why not a GC version?its just an excuse period......"

It might very well be just an excuse, but hasn't that been what Nintendo's been given us when asked to go online?

"And probably gonna see more companies like Acclain going down"

Acclaim, also a company that hasn't even tried to go online this gen. They're going under from a bad output of games, not because they've went online and it hasn't worked. Because they haven't tried going online. I think Juiced will be hteir first online game this gen.
 
SolidSnakex said:
"Well all that you said dont change the fact that Online console games is still in its infancy and that more pple without online will going to play Burnout3 so why not a GC version?its just an excuse period......"

It might very well be just an excuse, but hasn't that been what Nintendo's been given us when asked to go online?

"And probably gonna see more companies like Acclain going down"

Acclaim, also a company that hasn't even tried to go online this gen. They're going under from a bad output of games, not because they've went online and it hasn't worked. Because they haven't tried going online. I think Juiced will be hteir first online game this gen.

Look at Sega......that's a good example they just didnt went down probably because of sammy....
 
So you're putting Sega's going down on them going online and not because their games just aren't selling? Online play isn't going to save a bad game, or a game people just don't want. Why not look at EA then if you're going to put out Sega. Ever since they've put Madden online the series popularity has been constantly increasing. EA's income has been constantly going up ever since then.
 
That depends what you call "large numbers of gamer" will have discovered online.

right now it's at about 3.5 million NA + LIVE, not counting the fact that a lot of network adaptors were bought because people had no choice and retailers were carrying only the bundle (at least at some Best Buys and Targets).

If this hits 20+ million by the end of 2006, then yeah, maybe Nintendo would have been wise to start this gen, no matter how laggy and buggy games like Mario Kart and Smash Brothers would have been due to the fast-paced gameplay.

I think some games (like Four Swords Adventure and Wario Ware) could have worked on dail-up, some games only on broadband, and some games probably not yet ready due to complexity.

In addition, consumers get confused easily. I work at retail, I see the casual/non-gamer mind at work. Throw in the word online and suddenly half of the casuals think you need online to play the game or think it's not worth buying if you don't have online (look at Pandora Tomorrow and Project Gotham 2 sales) Then there's people buying XBox LIVE thinking they could connect with dailup. Then there's the fact that if you do dailup or broadband-only for some games on PS2, people might be ignorant of the fact. Some people think XBox LIVE kinda acts like an ISP as well. Plus, some people have no idea what sort of setup or ISP is needed to go online. I have to admit sometimes even kids (like 10 years old) come ask me about LIVE, so the interest in playing against other around the world is there, but the know-how of setup and what you need beforehand is still relatively low.

On top of all that, there's the "working out chinks and details" thing.

The truth is, it's probably for the better Nintendo didn't go into online half-prepared (as a response to Microsoft and Sony) and just make a mess of things (the way I see some of the PS2 online situation right now). Consumer confusion has to be a factor when you consider Nintendo is targeting "all age groups" and not just young males. There is a good possibility Nintendo could have alienated a lot of consumers (on top of what the kid-friendly, anti-mature image did) that didn't know the process. There's a reason Sega didn't mention GBA connectivity in the commercial for SA2B, people might have ended up thinking you need the GBA to play the game. Sure the young male demographic reading this board is not that ignorant, but there is a risk that the primary buying audience (probably over 75% of purchases) of parents, casuals, kids, etc. might not know what's going on. I definitely think that's why Pandora Tomorrow and PGR2 didn't do as well. I have a XBox-only friend who only plays military games, and when he hears games are online, he doesn't always immediately distinguish that there are 1p gameplay modes as well.

I mean, the GBA/GBASP ignorance is skyrocket high. Customers think only certain games work with certain versions, that colors make a certain one a better model, that graphics are different, that some games are only SP and some on GBA. I imagine interest in online isn't holding the numbers back, but rather knowledge, cost, and easy-of-setup.

Working out the chinks this gen would probably be more costly than working out the chinks next-gen (even if Microsoft and Sony have it all worked out by then). In addition, "working out he chinks" will probably happen faster than it did more the other two this gen due to improved and cheaper technology, and Nintendo can look at what the other two did and take what they see as fitting their games and what service they want to provide, instead of going in with "experiment" in mind.

For a hardcore young-male demographic that has the means, I do think Nintendo could have brought joy, satisfaction, and fun to this audience. But as a business decision when protecting your brandname is #1 priority, I think the wait-and-see attitude is probably the safest way. Risks are good, but in this case, the cost probably outweighed any potential gain from the risk. XBox LIVE and NA have been modest success. At best, I think Nintendo would have reached a level of "messy, somewhat modest success" this gen with online, and probably not worth the extra 5% in sales you'll get for doing it, because you might be losing those 5% to consumer confusion.
 
I cant believe at how some of you are committed to Nintendo. You cant defend them when it comes to online, you just cant.
 
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