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|OT| French Presidential Elect 2017 - La France est toujours insoumise; Le Pen loses
- Thread starter Holden
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No. She's mocking him.
There really shoudn't have been a debate with her. Fake news and lies. That was about it. Uninteresting for viewers, not worth of our democracy. I wasn't expecting that she whould go so hard on him during the entire debate.
Unfortunately it's not the stupids vs. the smart ones. Read below this wonderful piece about this book (I already recommended it here)
From what I saw it's made by pollsters with a representative sample of tonight's viewers. That's not a Twitter strawpoll
Unfortunately it's not the stupids vs. the smart ones. Read below this wonderful piece about this book (I already recommended it here)
From what I saw it's made by pollsters with a representative sample of tonight's viewers. That's not a Twitter strawpoll
Eolz
Member
Basically Le Pen accused Macron of criticizing her voters in the past, and when Macron started replying, she went full on (bad) comedy by supposedly caricaturing Macron saying "they're here! In your rural areas, in your towns,... They're coming for you! The invaders!", while Macron tried to say he said that about her party members, and that he was respecting any voter out there.
jack_package_200
Banned
It'll be interesting to see if journalists made reports from people's homes that watched the debate (with different electorates). There's a confirmation bias for us, but I really wonder how what she did (or Macron did) was perceived by people that voted for her (in their diversity), by abstentionnists, by Fillon voters etc.
And it's not just the electorate or the fachosphere on the internet. Philippot wasn't looking good at all, and Rachline tried to make up for Le Pen mishandling most of her talking points by turning his interview into a summary of the Front platform.
There really shoudn't have been a debate with her. Fake news and lies. That was about it. Uninteresting for viewers, not worth of our democracy. I wasn't expecting that she whould go so hard on him during the entire debate.
Unfortunately it's not the stupids vs. the smart ones. Read below this wonderful piece about this book (I already recommended it here)
The article you quote literally ends by calling FN voters "fools" (dupes)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but that seems like a mistranslation.
"dupe" in English is "(to be) fooled" (être trompé, se faire avoir) and not "fool" (idiot, imbécile)
It doesn't have any negative meaning as in "they are stupid" / "ils sont idiots, stupides, débiles" (and by "stupids" the guy I quoted meant stupid, not fooled, he later called them "fuckers")
Plus in that case the author points out that many voters are fooled (by the parties), not only those who vote FN. It's not meant to say that they are idiots : just before that sentence she says that are lucid/smart
I think fool is the usual translation for dupe (un jeu de dupes = a fool's bargain), and both terms have roughly the same connotation in the two languages (if you call me a dupe, I probably won't think you're praising my intelligence).
The sentence before that says that "some" of the people in these villages are "strikingly lucid", quoting a guy who's not voting FN any more (and praising him for saying a really trite cliché I might add). The tone of the article is more paternalistic than insulting, but I wouldn't exactly say that the author is awed by the intellect of FN voters.
What a pain it was too watch this, I am glad Macron did so well though, as she totally made a full of herself - and not only in the sequence you are all quoting. I feel more confident than before that Macron will win, and I know he has a good chance to be a great president - he has the potential charisma and elocution of one at least ! Now everyone just need to go vote, there's no way Le Pen becomes our next president, it'd be such a disaster...
I love how, for a split second, he doesn't quite know how to react.
This have gif potential.
gutter_trash
Banned
Nager dans les eaux troubles
Des lendemains
Attendre ici la fin
Flotter dans l'air trop lourd
Du presque rien
A qui tendre la main
Si je dois tomber de haut
Que ma chute soit lente
Je n'ai trouvé de repos
Que dans l'indifférence
Pourtant, je voudrais retrouver l'innocence
Mais rien n'a de sens, et rien ne va
Tout est chaos
A côté
Tous mes idéaux: des mots
Abimés...
Je cherche une âme, qui
Pourra m'aider
Je suis
Génération désenchantée,
Désenchantée
I didn't watch because I can't stand her, but I'm glad the general consensus seems to be that she fucked up considerably.
A lot of people are finally starting to realize that she's got no substance at all, and a few of my friends almost praised Macron for not strangling her (which is already an achievement considering how insufferable she can be). Hopefully this translates into good news this Sunday.
A lot of people are finally starting to realize that she's got no substance at all, and a few of my friends almost praised Macron for not strangling her (which is already an achievement considering how insufferable she can be). Hopefully this translates into good news this Sunday.
Link to the debate : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5aqL7FBxyI
Anyway, besides these translations nuances, she never meant "stupids" "fuckers" like the other dude here, I believe we'll agree on that.
The point of the paper is not to judge their "intellect" but to praise a great book that tries to give them a chance to speak in order to be hard so that we can understand a social reality that doesn't reach usually.
But here we are, getting caught up meaningless details once again, so let's continue to call them stupid racists without a brain. Le racisme de l'intelligence comme disait l'autre.
Anyway, besides these translations nuances, she never meant "stupids" "fuckers" like the other dude here, I believe we'll agree on that.
The point of the paper is not to judge their "intellect" but to praise a great book that tries to give them a chance to speak in order to be hard so that we can understand a social reality that doesn't reach usually.
But here we are, getting caught up meaningless details once again, so let's continue to call them stupid racists without a brain. Le racisme de l'intelligence comme disait l'autre.
Well, you're the one who launched this translation debate (as well as the debate around intelligence). I'm just pointing out that paternalism toward FN voters, while on the surface more civil, does not necessarily mean more respect for their intelligence (and that was the original question if I'm not mistaken)..
Intelligent or not, after watching this debate there must be something wrong with you if you think "MLP is fit to be president". She showed nothing presidential yesterday. Plus no real answer to any of the topics. Except for maybe the double currency one. And that was ridiculous.
Alx
Member
It's not like she had any choice actually, there's nothing solid in her program anyway (did anybody ever explain how "restoring our borders" would prevent terrorists from passing through ? It never did in the past). So all she has is snarling at her opponent ; most say she already dropped all pretence of winning the election, she just wants to position herself in the opposition, because that's where she gets her power (and her money).
In a way it brings her back to the strategy of her father : many believe he never wanted to be president either, and that was actually one of the sources of conflict within the FN (including between JMLP and MLP). Would be funny if she became the new patriarch with such positioning, with "Le Pen Junior" being the one rooting for a full victory of FN. The more things change...
In a way it brings her back to the strategy of her father : many believe he never wanted to be president either, and that was actually one of the sources of conflict within the FN (including between JMLP and MLP). Would be funny if she became the new patriarch with such positioning, with "Le Pen Junior" being the one rooting for a full victory of FN. The more things change...
Lord Frieza
Member
I don't follow this election as closely as most here do, just what I see here and when I watch French 24, but when does this woman not look like a crazed nut job.
Alx
Member
Well many agree that her major achievement in her political career is giving a more acceptable and respectable face to her party. Gives you an idea of what it was 15 years ago...
Red Arremer
Member
If only...
Lord Frieza
Member
It's like Trump but with nothing to laugh at. So the absolute worst.
Blackpuppy
Member
At least Macron is a better debater than Hillary. He really knew how to reply to her lies: by giving specific details and numbers (and without the help of cheet sheets!). Hillary seemed to only counter Trump with weak sound bites.
Lord Frieza
Member
Part of me wants to go down this road, but it's probably better that I not. I'll just say I disagree 1000%.
EDIT: On the Hillary stuff, I guess I should add for clarity. Sounds like Macron did pretty well from what I've read. I haven't watched it, and I don't speak French, so I think even with subtitles I probably wouldn't follow the flow of the conversation well
Blackpuppy
Member
I guess I should clarify: I do think Clinton was more professional and more sane (duh) but I don't feel she was effective enough against Trump's accusations. Take the emails: she kept trying to avoid even talking about them when they came up, or if she did, it would just be "this was cleared by the FBI." That only made her sound guilty to the undecided voters.
LePen tried the same strategy with Macron: she would try to throw some scandal like: you sold this French company to the Italians! And instead of avoiding the topic, he would smartly reply with: no, we restructured the company with the agreement of the union. No jobs were lost.
I will add that it's hard to compare the two: Hillary has been in politics for much longer for better or for worse. Yes she has more experience, but she also had so much (unfairly) stacked against her.
Palette Swap
Member
Le Pen and her cronies at going all out on the Bahamas bullshit she brought up yesterday.
You'll never guess who made up that bit of fake news.
https://twitter.com/nico_vanderb/status/859892235005022209
(Hint: Dupont-Aignan is going to get his 30 rubles)
Yeah. I mentioned it earlier in the thread during the debate. It's hilarious. No one cares about it.People are literally spamming french news organizations with this fake story now.
KonradLaw
Member
Macron has also got the outsider's charm. No matter how much FN tried to paint him as establishment, this guy was in politics for a short while, then created his own party and year later he's favorite to win the election. Hillary was establishment personified. It worked against her, so it's no wonder Le Pen tried to recreate that with Macron, but she could never succeed at this.
jack_package_200
Banned
Borrowed from /r/neoliberal
KonradLaw
Member
Hated? COme on. That's got be a very tiny minority that has such strong feelings. Most people might not like him, but the fact that french society seems to be able to vote based on rationality instead of feelings is commendable.
At this point I think his party is probably strong enough to do at least do decent in the upcoming legislative elections.
As an aside, that is quite ironic, considering France made its agreement on German reunification dependent on Germany joining a common currency:
As an aside to the aside, this would be what is called in Germany a "Treppenwitz der Geschichte", "irony of how a historic event turned out", literally "staircase joke of history". "Treppenwitz", however, is a literal translation of "l'esprit de l'escalier", but with a completely different meaning.
Okay, back to important things now. I really hope this whole "polls don't work anymore! Racists are getting into power everywhere!" meme is dead and buried after this election.
Both the Austria presidential election and Dutch general election damaged the meme significantly. This election will be the final blow to it.Not many people will use this meme in the german elections in September since the AfD is not going to be a huge threat at this point.
40% of the france population voting for le pen showing the french people want change if you ignored that the far left and far right will do better next time.
Alx
Member
Populism is far from being stopped, but the successive (relative) victories against it sure will kill its momentum. It's not seen as an immediate threat any more, but the problem is still there, and more than ever. Those French elections show around 40% adhesion to populist candidates, both on first and second round.
Is there any opinion poll that shows this?
???????????????????????
So you think 40% voting for Lepen don't hate him ? How is that a very tiny minority ?
Once the FN is out, do you really think Fillon Melenchon and Lepen's voters are just going to Macron ? lol.
What a preposterous thing to say.
You have no idea what his government will look like, since he refuses to comment on it until the election is over, and you also don't know who will represent him in the upcoming election.
It could go either way, but being so adamant he'll do good while having 0 basis for it is dumb. Unless you're basing it all on "his personality", which is equally as dumb because people are not gonna vote "manuel valls" because they like Macron etc... (and that's ignoring the fact that most people just don't like Macron anyway)
I think Baroin or Melenchon will win, not Macron. Things can absolutely change in the future. But that's the thing, Macron is deliberately being vague about his future government so we can't guess how it will unfold.
Cant wait for GAF making the AfD a 50+% superpower before the Bundestag gets elected.
Yesterday's debate changed that, by contrast MLP helped him A LOT.
Tons of positivity this morning among my Melenchon friends ("better than I thought, might not be the cholera after all, etc.")
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