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[Arcteryx]

OP: you realize you can only have ONE of these equipped at a time right? Like, I don't even understand wtf you're complaining about here, but it makes zero sense.

It isn't dialogue. It doesn't contribute anything. There's no advantage. It's merely a quick quip.

It's not like Blizzard is money-gating things like requesting a heal or some shit ffs.

Add an L to your name and you've got what you are: salty.

 

[Jebusman]

I'm suggesting that this thread is blatant game shitting and isn't really promoting a discussion of any sort, therefore it'd make sense to close it. But nah carry on, i'm sure we'll get to the bottom of this after another 10 pages.



Basically in tears.

I mean your posts have been blatant thread whining so it's not like you're a heavenly saint here. I think the OPs statement is ridiculous on it's face (optional taunts being locked is the "new low" of microtransactions), but the core of it is still sound (optional taunts being locked at all), and we've mostly been able to discuss this. Like calm the fuck down. No one has to universally like the game, and I can understand in the abstract how for a very, very small group (therearedozensofus.gif) this seems shitty.

 

[RetroMG]

Satire?

I thought so too, but no, it doesn't seem that way, unfortunately.

 

[into.it.over.it]

I can't say I know much about Overwatch but the microtransactions seem fairly similar to what's been going on with destiny post Taken King. Obviously Overwatch seem much better because the substantial content will be free, and destiny's next big update will almost definitely cost money.

Either way I don't have a problem with this business model. People who want to buy cosmetic items can spend their money on skins/soundbites/whatever if they want them, but nobody is locked out of the core gameplay. If you do want cosmetics you have incentive to play the game and get them through exp or whatever. The people who buy the items help keep the game running and fund future updates. The destiny Year 2 updates have been disappointing but I don't really care because they were free (though I did buy the sarcastic clap and a racing sparrow). I've already gotten my moneys worth from that game many times over. Of course publishers are still going to be thinking about how much money they can make but I think they could be doing much worse things with microtransactions.

 

[scy]

...so doesn't TF2 also have unlockable taunts?

 

[Jito]

I mean your posts have been blatant thread whining so it's not like you're a heavenly saint here. I think the OPs statement is ridiculous on it's face (optional taunts being locked is the "new low" of microtransactions), but the core of it is still sound (optional taunts being locked at all), and we've mostly been able to discuss this. Like calm the fuck down. No one has to universally like the game, and I can understand in the abstract how for a very, very small group (therearedozensofus.gif) this seems shitty.

I'm not saying people have to like the game, I'm not commenting on the quality of the game whatsoever. And no I can't agree that having locked content in a game is a shitty practice, I'm baffled people are upset about a game having unlockables in it, it's strange really.

 

[SwolBro]

this is just ridiculous OP. sorry.

games used not even have this secondary content like this. if you want the game to have longevity, and you want the game to keep giving you new maps, characters, and modes for free then they have to find a way to keep bringing in money. charge for cosmetics, let the people that absolutely have to have this stuff pay for it.

the complaints never stop.

 

[Jebusman]

...so doesn't TF2 also have unlockable taunts?

The argument is that TF2 also has audible voice taunts that you can use on command. These are mostly divided into generic "Cheer/Jeer/Battle Cry" statements that are somewhat similar to these. Every character has them built in. They are separate from the standard "Yes/No/Help/Go" commands.

I'm not saying people have to like the game, I'm not commenting on the quality of the game whatsoever. And no I can't agree that having locked content in a game is a shitty practice, I'm baffled people are upset about a game having unlockables in it, it's strange really.

I'm not even sure I know what you're arguing anymore.

Unlockables are different from RNG based loot drop style unlockables, with an MTA system attached for those who wish to bypass it. It's still a shittier deal than when we, you know, just had everything from the get go. Or we had the customization to do it ourselves (Source based games having sprays you just uploaded an image for, not a built in list you had to RNG unlock). That is very much a regression from what we used to have.

Again, I understand the REASONING behind why it has to exist, and I do feel given the alternatives it's the best tradeoff consumers are going to get unless they're willing to pony up more money up front, but it's still, in relation to what was the status quo at some point, a shitty deal.

Edit: Actually looking back at your own history you are running some real serious defence for Overwatch. It's literally nothing but belittling just about any opinion about Overwatch that doesn't line up with yours, either by strawmanning the shit out of their argument, or reaching the point of backtalking to a mod about not doing his job because you're mad that people have a complaint. A dumb complaint we might agree on, but a complaint nonetheless. Like take a step back and breathe man.

 

[shiftplusone]

The fact that it's specifically speech that you're getting hung up on is what baffles me

The voice lines in overwatch more specifically.

Him not playing the game is really coloring his view on this. NO one uses the stuff outside of the 30 second prematch standing around portion. They're not dialogue or interactions between characters, or related to ANYTHING

Widowmaker has a line that is "What's an aimbot?"

Zarya says "I will break you"

objectively speaking, there's nothing there.

This is not locking characterization, lore, dialogue, or anything from the game

It's unlockable throwaway zingers.

 

[Z3M0G]

Blizzard are already monetizing skins and sprays but now they are fucking monetizing speech lines?! Obnoxious. And before you say that it doesn't affect gameplay so it's good - it does effect the writing, the characterization and basically the heart of the game. In Multiplayer games, any piece of writing is crucial to set-up the characters, to give them personality and to give them voice, figuratively and literally.

https://youtu.be/ZtwZu9rNOOU?list=PLkuQiyJ2Ufumc9wIauyDsngfGYA3JSbMS&t=107

such deep lore to be had here

 

[BibiMaghoo]

I get where you are coming from OP. I thought it shitty that Valve have monetised statistics, and everyone else thought I was weird or stupid, but the fact remains that companies will seek to get paid for anything they can, even nothing if they can. The defenders of these motions are missing the point, that it's not a slippery slope, it's a sheer drop. As we move forward, nothing is actually safe to be assumed as part of a games package anymore.

 

[Trogdor1123]

I almost feel bad about liking this kind of grinds after reading this thread lol. Maybe I'm not thinking clearly but isn't this better than rng on loot in game? Loot actually changes the balance of the game.

 

[Huge Succeeded]

It's a good thing OP probably isn't a fighting game fan! Ultra Street Fighter 4 locking all those clothes (and therefore all that CHARACTERIZATION) behind paywalls might have put his or her brain on some Three Mile meltdown shit

 

[Ferrio]

The voice lines in overwatch more specifically.

Him not playing the game is really coloring his view on this. NO one uses the stuff outside of the 30 second prematch standing around portion. They're not dialogue or interactions between characters, or related to ANYTHING

I used to think this too until the other day I spent $100 dollars and got lucky and unlocked a new Mei voice line. Up until that point I didn't understand Mei, her ambitions, her backstory, and why she'd bother wearing a big ass parka in Numbai. After I equipped her "Am-mei-zing" voice line, it all became so crystal clear. I finally understood everything about her, and formed a very deep bond that I don't think I can ever separate. I have to be careful using it in a match too, everytime I press it everyone on the server stops in their tracks and just contemplates the existence of Mei and what it all really means.

It was so silly that they locked this bit of lore in those loot boxes which I guess I could of easily obtained by just playing the game, but who cares about playing the damn game?

 

[Freiya]

Agree with op and think it sounds lame. It's also pretty lame how many passes this game is getting. So many people are drinking the overwatch jungle juice it has to be one of the most overhyped games ever.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

I get where you are coming from OP. I thought it shitty that Valve have monetised statistics, and everyone else thought I was weird or stupid, but the fact remains that companies will seek to get paid for anything they can, even nothing if they can. The defenders of these motions are missing the point, that it's not a slippery slope, it's a sheer drop. As we move forward, nothing is actually safe to be assumed as part of a games package anymore.

I don't know. I just think there comes a point where you either have to accept the changing world around you or move on. The so-called glory days of 100% of the game shipping on a disc or cartridge with nothing more to pay for are gone. They're not coming back. The market for console gaming is not growing. There's not an untapped market for the game design of yesteryear to make a roaring comeback in light of skyrocketing development costs. Given the alternatives, I just kind of have to back the lesser evil. And I'd rather have something where the core experience is acquired for one up-front cost even if there are extra optional unlocks partially behind a paywall than go full Free 2 Play. Because that's the alternative as it exists now. Not going back to selling games like they did 10+ years ago.

 

[SmoothRunningGun]

is this the first game you ever saw with microtransactions OP?


Also, TF2 now has a one-liner that you can use from a choice of various ones, a one liner meant to be just that, a one liner?




Because, you know, the characters have a lot of fucking lines in the game while playing, like TF2?





TF2 also sells fucking guns with different effects. That's seems way more low.

Tf2 is not a $60 game.

 

[~Cross~]

Its interesting to see how people mold their expectations based on the genre even when things have changed so much that the lines are completely blurred on the issues.

Years ago GW2 launched at 50 bucks or something and it had way more gameplay "convenience" microtransactions than OW could ever have (OW is in fact entirely cosmetic). And yet its fine for GW2 to do this because the alternative is either a f2p mmo with even worse shops or a sub based MMO. Hell even sub MMOs are already selling stuff in their own shops to get more revenue out of the titles.

Black Desert came out in the states recently and aside from some small changes most of the korean f2p shop elements are still there despite having a 30 dollar buy in. It doesn't have any RNG boxes in it but enjoy paying 29 bucks, just a dollar short on what you spent on the game, to get outfits that have clear gameplay advantages over not using them. 5.50 or something to reset your horse's mating counter in case RNG screws you out of higher tier horse when breeding.

People have already mentioned other b2p shooters and their microtransaction issues. And yet somehow OW takes the cake. Anyone saying thats the case is either incredibly ignorant to other games or arguing in extremely bad faith.

 

[Jito]

I'm not even sure I know what you're arguing anymore.

Unlockables are different from RNG based loot drop style unlockables, with an MTA system attached for those who wish to bypass it. It's still a shittier deal than when we, you know, just had everything from the get go. Or we had the customization to do it ourselves (Source based games having sprays you just uploaded an image for, not a built in list you had to RNG unlock). That is very much a regression from what we used to have.

Again, I understand the REASONING behind why it has to exist, and I do feel given the alternatives it's the best tradeoff consumers are going to get unless they're willing to pony up more money up front, but it's still, in relation to what was the status quo at some point, a shitty deal.

It's pretty clear what I'm arguing, I like the RNG system of unlocks.

 

[Arcteryx]

What about gamers with disabilities that can't even enjoy the pleasure of voice spam? They have to spend 3x (75 coins !!!) as much to enjoy it:

Spoiler

 

[SocksAndShoes]

I don't know. I just think there comes a point where you either have to accept the changing world around you or move on. The so-called glory days of 100% of the game shipping on a disc or cartridge with nothing more to pay for are gone. They're not coming back. The market for console gaming is not growing. There's not an untapped market for the game design of yesteryear to make a roaring comeback in light of skyrocketing development costs. Given the alternatives, I just kind of have to back the lesser evil. And I'd rather have something where the core experience is acquired for one up-front cost even if there are extra optional unlocks partially behind a paywall than go full Free 2 Play. Because that's the alternative as it exists now. Not going back to selling games like they did 10+ years ago.

Good lawd please preach on brother Steve! Can we have this auto-posted in every single thread about MTs from now on?

 

[Perona]

So many people coming into the thread misinformed from just reading the OP. Loot boxes can be earned from leveling up. The exp needed to level up stops increasing after level 22, which means you'll get a loot box roughly every hour and a half.
These voice lines are not important dialogue, they are just silly one-liners that you can only equip one of at a time and can throw out by pressing a button.

 

[scy]

The argument is that TF2 also has audible voice taunts that you can use on command. These are mostly divided into generic "Cheer/Jeer/Battle Cry" statements that are somewhat similar to these. Every character has them built in. They are separate from the standard "Yes/No/Help/Go" commands.

Right. My point is more that he's noting the unlockable taunts, because that's what these are really (used via the Emote command specifically), are a new low and cites TF2 ... which did the exact same? They too have unlockable taunts that include bits of audio. Seems like an extra arbitrary line in the sand here on the subject if it's okay elsewhere but not here because ... reasons?

 

[BiggNife]

Are you kidding me? It's all cosmetic stuff! How is this a new low!?!?!?

F2P games are a thousand times more heinous when it comes to microtransactions. Just look at Clash Royale.

 

[Jebusman]

It's pretty clear what I'm arguing, I like the RNG system of unlocks.

And I'm (and the OP by extension although he had to pick the most arbitrary part of it) arguing that RNG style unlocks is still a shittier deal than when we just got it because it was content on the disk we paid for. I'm not seeing a real compelling argument for why it's not, or why you aren't just going out of your way to shit on every single Overwatch complainer you see.

Like I even already argued why MTAs are a necessary evil in order to keep the upfront cost of games down. But I'm not going to sit here and argue it's better than what we used to have. It's just the least worse option. Having to grind it out at all, even if it can be obtained entirely for free, is still worse than how we just had all of it up front.

 

[UrbanRats]

Are you kidding me? It's all cosmetic stuff! How is this a new low!?!?!?

F2P games are a thousand times more heinous when it comes to microtransactions. Just look at Clash Royale.

But they're free.
I'm surprised people defend this garbage, in a 60$ game.
I guess tacit resignation is the only explanation i can come up with.

 

[herbchamberz]

I don't know. I just think there comes a point where you either have to accept the changing world around you or move on.
...
Because that's the alternative as it exists now. Not going back to selling games like they did 10+ years ago.

There's also the point that video games have been priced at $60 forever. They have definitely fallen behind in terms of inflation. Maybe this is just the slow evolution to the $80 or $100 video game. I'm thankful they've kept it to just the cosmetic stuff.

 

[Ghost is Bad]

And I'm (and the OP by extension although he had to pick the most arbitrary part of it) arguing that RNG style unlocks is still a shittier deal than when we just got it because it was content on the disk we paid for. I'm not seeing a real compelling argument for why it's not, or why you aren't just going out of your way to shit on every single Overwatch complainer you see.

like, it's free lol. just playing the game will give you unlocks

 

[Ferrio]

But they're free.

The "But they're free" argument needs to die. Just because a game is free doesn't mean that it's transactions are suddenly more fair than a buy-to-play game.

 

[Modest Mauser]

But they're free.
I'm surprised people defend this garbage, in a 60$ game.
I guess tacit resignation is the only explanation i can come up with.

Additional content for Overwatch will also be free. That's what the cosmetics are paying for.

 

[CarbonFire]

I don't know. I just think there comes a point where you either have to accept the changing world around you or move on. The so-called glory days of 100% of the game shipping on a disc or cartridge with nothing more to pay for are gone. They're not coming back. The market for console gaming is not growing. There's not an untapped market for the game design of yesteryear to make a roaring comeback in light of skyrocketing development costs. Given the alternatives, I just kind of have to back the lesser evil. And I'd rather have something where the core experience is acquired for one up-front cost even if there are extra optional unlocks partially behind a paywall than go full Free 2 Play. Because that's the alternative as it exists now. Not going back to selling games like they did 10+ years ago.

Too much truth for this thread.

As lesser evils go, this one is pretty low on the list.

 

[Bumbletron]

This is by far the best form of microtransactions. The likely reason you really have a problem with it is because it is actually making you consider buying a few for once. That's what all of my friends and I have decided about it.

 

[Freiya]

Its interesting to see how people mold their expectations based on the genre even when things have changed so much that the lines are completely blurred on the issues.

Years ago GW2 launched at 50 bucks or something and it had way more gameplay "convenience" microtransactions than OW could ever have (OW is in fact entirely cosmetic). And yet its fine for GW2 to do this because the alternative is either a f2p mmo with even worse shops or a sub based MMO. Hell even sub MMOs are already selling stuff in their own shops to get more revenue out of the titles.

Black Desert came out in the states recently and aside from some small changes most of the korean f2p shop elements are still there despite having a 30 dollar buy in. It doesn't have any RNG boxes in it but enjoy paying 29 bucks, just a dollar short on what you spent on the game, to get outfits that have clear gameplay advantages over not using them. 5.50 or something to reset your horse's mating counter in case RNG screws you out of higher tier horse when breeding.

People have already mentioned other b2p shooters and their microtransaction issues. And yet somehow OW takes the cake. Anyone saying thats the case is either incredibly ignorant to other games or arguing in extremely bad faith.

I don't see how any of this is comparable. An mmo is way harder and more expensive to run then a fps moba with 3 game modes and a handful of people in a match at the same time. Ow came out costing 60 bucks with peanuts for content and dumb micro transactions.

 

[Afrodium]

I get where you are coming from OP. I thought it shitty that Valve have monetised statistics, and everyone else thought I was weird or stupid, but the fact remains that companies will seek to get paid for anything they can, even nothing if they can. The defenders of these motions are missing the point, that it's not a slippery slope, it's a sheer drop. As we move forward, nothing is actually safe to be assumed as part of a games package anymore.

Jesus Christ. The lines OP is complaining about are in the package of the base game, they're just not unlocked from the very beginning. You can get them without paying a cent beyond the initial purchase.

 

[Jito]

And I'm (and the OP by extension although he had to pick the most arbitrary part of it) arguing that RNG style unlocks is still a shittier deal than when we just got it because it was content on the disk we paid for. I'm not seeing a real compelling argument for why it's not, or why you aren't just going out of your way to shit on every single Overwatch complainer you see.

Like I even already argued why MTAs are a necessary evil in order to keep the upfront cost of games down. But I'm not going to sit here and argue it's better than what we used to have. It's just the least worse option.

Is this your first Blizzard game? Random loot drops is what they do. Oh nice you're just taking it to me attacking people for criticising OW now, nice.

 

[BiggNife]

But they're free.

Okay. Other paid games like Uncharted 4 do the same stuff Overwatch does. This sort of thing isn't new.

And a game being free doesn't change "Pay to win" being far, far worse than "pay for cosmetics."

I'm surprised people defend this garbage, in a 60$ game.
I guess tacit resignation is the only explanation i can come up with.

holy shit way to jump to conclusions

I'm not saying Overwatch's microtransactions are good, I'm saying that claiming it's "a new low" is absurd because other games have done way worse. Obviously I'd prefer microtransactions to be gone altogether, but as far as the current industry goes, OW is definitely on the less egregious side of the spectrum as far as "unfair microtransactions" go.

 

[SocksAndShoes]

But they're free.
I'm surprised people defend this garbage, in a 60$ game.
I guess tacit resignation is the only explanation i can come up with.

All future maps, modes and heros are free. Do people honestly want the industry alternative of paid map packs and modes that split the community? This type of thinking is absolutely baffling to me.

 

[Jebusman]

Is this your first Blizzard game? Random loot drops is what they do. Oh nice you're just taking it to me attacking people for criticising OW now, nice.

My first Blizzard game was Warcraft 1. Don't even start this. You wanna sit here and have a dick waving contest about who the most "hardcore" Blizzard fan is?

 

[Jito]

My first Blizzard game was Warcraft 1. Don't even start this.

I didn't start anything, you quoted me and started talking to me? There games are all clearly designed around random loot drops and MT now.

Lol what? I wasn't say I was a more hardcore Blizzard fan, where the hell did you get that from..?

 

[Freiya]

All future maps, modes and heros are free. Do people honestly want the industry alternative of paid map packs and modes that split the community? This type of thinking is absolutely baffling to me.

I sure hope the shit is free! People sure didn't get much for their 60$ at launch.

 

[Barack Lesnar]

Rainbow Six: Siege, Street Fighter 4, Battleborn, Black OPS III all have unlockable taunts.

And many more. Those are just recent examples....I'm waiting for the OP to respond to this because it was the crux of his argument (that making speech lines locked was a 'new low')

 

[shiftplusone]

I sure hope the shit is free! People sure didn't get much for their 60$ at launch.

 

[Ghost is Bad]

I don't see how any of this is comparable. An mmo is way harder and more expensive to run then a fps moba with 3 game modes and a handful of people in a match at the same time. Ow came out costing 60 bucks with peanuts for content and dumb micro transactions.

lol this game was 40 bucks

 

[Confused Cheeseburger]

I don't see how any of this is comparable. An mmo is way harder and more expensive to run then a fps moba with 3 game modes and a handful of people in a match at the same time. Ow came out costing 60 bucks with peanuts for content and dumb micro transactions.

this whine reduction will pair well with steak

 

[Apathy]

Jesus Christ. The lines OP is complaining about are in the package of the base game, they're just not unlocked from the very beginning. You can get them without paying a cent beyond the initial purchase.

I don't see why people don't get this. Imagine the game had no MT's, these would be unlockables that you can get over time or luck.

Now with MT's if a person wanted to chose (and heres the main thing) to buy more boxes to increase the likelyhood of getting cosmetic items, and another did not want to spend a cent to get those extra boxes, in no way hurts the non paying person. Yet in the end, the non paying person can still get the same item with time or luck

 

[BiggNife]

I sure hope the shit is free! People sure didn't get much for their 60$ at launch.

1) This is ignoring the fact that it's $40 on PC, something you seem to be doing in a bunch of your posts

2) You also seem to be ignoring the fact that a lot of games that are light on content still try to milk people will bullshit Season Passes, like Evolve.

 

[Flintty]

you could just listen to the lines without buying them

Lol this is the first thing I thought. Nothing in this game that is monetised really flesh out the characters.

You know those flashy professional cinematic videos available for free on YouTube? Yeah they do. On and they're free.

Let us also not forget that these heinous micro transactions will fund new characters and maps which will be free. This is better than splitting the players with paid characters and maps. Chill OP, there is no case to answer.

I sure hope the shit is free! People sure didn't get much for their 60$ at launch.

No, just a solid well balanced shooter with a rich cast of characters and maps, and ongoing support/DLC. Not to mention the servers which have been solid as fuck. Value is in the eye of the buyer ofc but this game has hit the sweet spot for me.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

I like the unlock system more or less. Despite only getting 2 legs in 30 levels...

As I understand it, there are about 80 legendary skins in the game right? It took me about 20 hours to get to level 30 and it will take progressively longer to continue to level. I assume it will take another 20 hours to get to level 50.

So unless I really luck out and get a skin that I really wanted (there are 7 or 8 on my list that I really want to have), we're talking about about oh...maybe 500 - 800 hours to get things I want with the coin system and random unlocks? I wonder if I'll even want them anymore at that point. I guess I'll find out, as I suspect I'll be playing the game quite a bit going forward. Whether it actually lasts me 500 hours is anyone's guess. That would be rare air occupied only by the finest of MOBAs and FPS games in history for me.

That said, I do like that it's not a straight up pay-for-this-skin setup. Because then everyone would have just paid $5 or whatever for the legendary skin they really like and everyone would have the same stuff on. This way you really do feel unique when you walk into a match with a skin. The odds of someone else wearing the same skin are very low. In 20 hours I've only seen one Mariachi and 2 of the Comtasse Widowmakers, for example. And the only person with a Shark Roadhog skin I've seen in my matches was me. That aspect of the unlock system keeps opening boxes moderately exciting and the odds that you'll look unique relatively high.

 

[Hektor]

I sure hope the shit is free! People sure didn't get much for their 60$ at launch.

I'm very CONTENT with the CONTENT that i payed 40$ for.

 

[Freiya]

lol this game was 40 bucks

Game was not 40$ on consoles

1) This is ignoring the fact that it's $40 on PC, something you seem to be doing in a bunch of your posts

2) You also seem to be ignoring the fact that a lot of games that are light on content still try to milk people will bullshit Season Passes, like Evolve.

How does this make it right? Only difference is ow has tons of fanboys to defend it.


Lol @ all the ow fanboys trying to act like a large chunk of people didn't pay 60$ for this game