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[MoodyFog]

President Hollande just confirmed it was ISIS.

 

[azyless]

This is all so insane. I'm terrified for the heightened racism in Europe after this. Was Paris chosen due to the Charlie Hebdo thing?

Paris was "chosen" because these people are born and raised in France and Paris is the biggest city here, it's as simple as that.

 

[DXB-KNIGHT]

http://sawabcenter.org/

Please support the Sawab organization by spreading the word.
Let's attack the bases of the ideologies that creates terrorism.

 

[patapuf]

Well I believe today it is also about the West, because the West get involved and that today in a age of globalisation you obviously have links. People making jihad in Syria and Iraq can come from Europe or other parts of the world. They lived in secular States, sometimes in non-religious families, converted themselves in their 20ies, although they are going to fight in the name of an organisation that claims to fulfill religious goals.

So what do you do ? Do you only rely on emotion ? Do you only look at what "they" say ? Do you only fantasize with their propaganda, carefully made by their ministry of communication ? Or do you try to understand why your former classmate in high school is now a married wife in Syria or your former friend in your filmmaking association is now making morbid videos that are seen hundred of thousands of times on youtube ? They didn't woke up one day to say "let's go in Iraq" or "let's shoot a concert". They w. That's not saying this is "the West"'s fault, we are the one to blamed, this is watching reality with the tools we have (social sciences mainly). Read books. Specialists of islam, of rebellion, of the Middle-East. Journalists or sociologist that met people who went to Syria for jihad. The answers are here.



Thank you for you kind words.

My point is mostly: the answers are there. For this to stop, the crysis that needs to be solved is not in the west, and it is not something the west can solve with "behaving well" or with stomping over a country with a military intervention. In fact, i'd argue it's not something "the west" can solve at all.

We have to learn to deal with what is happening, but we are not omnipotent in what is going on in the world (and thus, blaming ourselves for everything doesn't work and ignores the agency of other cultures.)

 

[chrislowe]

This has to be among the stupidest things I've read all day.

Terrorists angry that people fleeing from their terrorism are not treated well enough? Wat?

I read that tweet that they got angry cause they treated the immigrants too good.

 

[Patrick Bateman]

This is all so insane. I'm terrified for the heightened racism in Europe after this. Was Paris chosen due to the Charlie Hebdo thing?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_involvement_in_the_Syrian_Civil_War#France_and_Britain

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

President Hollande just confirmed it was ISIS.

The fuck? I was watching the live stream and the translator didn't say anything.

 

[Kolx]

But there's actual video evidence of ISIS fighting Syrian forces. The same forces Iran is helping.

There's plenty of examples why this seems REALLY hard to believe. What about the Iranian commander that was killed in combat in Syria?

I never said ISIS never attacked Iranian forces. Ofc they will to keep the ideology around them alive, but I mean look at the percentage the damage done to Bashar is almost nothing to what they did to rebels. When the Russian-Iranian attack began ISIS attacked the rebels from behind and took a considerable land from them. Right now a good chunk of that land is controlled by Syrian army. What about ISIS front lines with the Syrian army? it's quite.

 

[stufte]

This has to be among the stupidest things I've read all day.

Terrorists angry that people fleeing from their terrorism are not treated well enough? Wat?

If I'm reading it correctly, he's saying the terrorists are pissed that Europe treated the refugees so humanely, not the other way around.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

I never said ISIS never attacked Iranian forces. Ofc they will to keep the ideology around them alive, but I mean look at the percentage the damage done to Bashar is almost nothing to what they did to rebels. When the Russian-Iranian attack began ISIS attacked the rebels from behind and took a considerable land from them. Right now a good chunk of that land is controlled by Syrian army. What about ISIS front lines with the Syrian army? it's quite.

So they only kill each other sometimes? Doesn't really jive with your conspiracy.

 

[Chichikov]

This has to be among the stupidest things I've read all day.

Terrorists angry that people fleeing from their terrorism are not treated well enough? Wat?

I think you're misunderstand what he's saying, I believe his point is that just and moral treatment of refugee upsets extremists, which makes sense to me, since hate and fear is what advance their agenda (which is also the goal of such terror attacks).

And while I don't read Jihadist twitter, it seems reasonable to me (and in line with what I've seen from other extremists).

 

[ElTorro]

I think he's saying the opposite, that jihadists want some sort of culture clash and for the refugees to be treated poorly and with disdain.

It highlights the emptiness of their culture and beliefs: that people are fleeing them for a better life with their "enemies", and it looks bad on their efforts to build some sort of utopian caliphate.

I read that tweet that they got angry cause they treated the immigrants too good.

Yeah, that might be the case. I took the first tweet as a sarcastic statement because we actually have had plenty of issues in how we are dealing with the refugee crisis.

 

[Rad Agast]

Who is behind ISIS exactly? ISIS did almost no damage to Bashar in comparison to what it did to the rebels. ISIS interfered in Iraq after the huge protest in the Sunni part and then shut down the protesters and turned it from a protest against injustice into a war against ISIS. ISIS had many suicidal attacks against SA right after SA launched their campaign in Yemen to take out Alhothi who is Iran's ally. ISIS attacked France and Turkey who are also one of the strongest countries that stood against Bashar. However, ISIS never attacked Iran and only had one attack in Hezb Allah territory. Idk if this was just a mere coincidence but unless it a coincidence then ISIS looks like nothing but a group controlled by the intelligence of other countries to serve their purposes in the region.

I have no words...

 

[SlickShoes]

This has to be among the stupidest things I've read all day.

Terrorists angry that people fleeing from their terrorism are not treated well enough? Wat?

Isn't he saying that what annoyed them was how well the refugees were treated? The refugees aren't attacks they are accepted thus these factions are annoyed.

 

[chrislowe]

IS threathens france http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/11/14/us-france-shooting-islamicstate-idUSKCN0T30ID20151114

 

[danthefan]

Attacks stemming from a direct incompatibility of islam toward the west are not happening daily.

I haven't seen anyone claim all Islamic violence, internally or externally, are exclusively the cause of blowback arising from western influence. Radicalism is too complicated to narrow down to one cause.

There's been people in the last couple of pages in this thread who appear to be claiming this aren't there?

 

[Mac_Lane]

French president François Hollande just spoke. Confirmed 127 people killed in the attacks.

Said Daesh was behind them. 3 days of national mourning decreed.

 

[jufonuk]

Had one person on my feed saying he has been telling people for years Osama was a paid CIA asset, and now you must believe ISIS are too, used the hash tag #sheepwillbesheep ..

Ffs

 

[MoodyFog]

The fuck? I was watching the live stream and the translator didn't say anything.

His sentence was "C’est un acte de guerre commis par une armée terroriste, Daesh, contre les valeurs que nous défendons et ce que nous sommes : un pays libre. "

Meaning "It's an act of war committed by a terrorist army, Daesh (ISIS), against the values we defend and what we are: a free country."

 

[Screaming Meat]

Instead of fighting over which pet explanation we think is most contributory everyone should just agree that there's many reasons why this shit happens.

I agree. There are a myriad of causes and effects that have lead to this tragedy, putting it down to one or two might help individuals make sense of it but I don't think it sheds any light on anything meaningful.

It's just my opinion, but I think we need to step up our social/cultural engineering efforts. In school we test kids on their knowledge, which is fine, but I think we should really test character too.

Strongly disagree here. This sounds like borderline Thought Policing to me. The potential for abuse far outweighs any security it would provide (if any).

 

[Doctor Ninja]

You know what that sad thing is ? Muslims who want nothing do with any of this are gonna suffer a lot because of it.

 

[CCS]

BBC has reported claims on twitter that ISIS has taken responsibility, but states they are NOT VERIFIED.

EDIT: Wow I timed that post wrong, give Hollande just said that it was ISIS.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

His sentence was "C’est un acte de guerre commis par une armée terroriste, Daesh, contre les valeurs que nous défendons et ce que nous sommes : un pays libre. "

Meaning "It's an act of war committed by a terrorist army, Daesh (ISIS), against the values we defend and what we are: a free country."

I'll be damned. The translator completely skipped it.

 

[C4Lukins]

I'm not sure how grabbing territory from the Shiite government of Baghdad is working for Iran. Considering that government is in close relations with Iran.



This claim seems awfully bold and certain considering we're not even 24 hours past the actual event.

"To all of those who have seen these awful things, I want to say we are going to lead a war which will be pitiless." President Francois Hollande.

I found this quote in multiple places, if I am incorrect, or the translation is fucked feel free to correct me.

 

[GHG]

IS threathens france http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/11/14/us-france-shooting-islamicstate-idUSKCN0T30ID20151114

And what, if France don't take any action then everyone lives happily ever after?

Fuck them.

 

[Patrick Bateman]

I still think that it's wrong to blame Islam and refugees for terror, yet I find it harder and harder to actually sympathise with muslim citizens when their point of view seems quite archaic (e.g. interpret the Quran literally) and seeing the Islam as the only true way, but never really speaking against islamistic terror.

 

[Starfield]

In order to "defeat" ISIS you have to find the various heads of the hydra and chop them off. Then you gotta indoctrinate their followers that everything they did and do is bad and won't bring them further in life and beyond. You can't just show up and tell those people "you bad, pls stop". I think the only way to convince brain-washed people is to brain wash them again. Fight fire with fire. Anyone agree or know a better way? (and please don't post..."yeah how about killing them all" this is stupid)

 

[Steeven]

Attacks stemming from a direct incompatibility of islam toward the west are not happening daily.

I haven't seen anyone claim all Islamic violence, internally or externally, are exclusively the cause of blowback arising from western influence. Radicalism is too complicated to narrow down to one cause.

I agree with that, that was my point, but some people in this thread did claim that.

 

[NEO0MJ]

Horrible news. This will have much bigger ramifications that the CH attack.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

"To all of those who have seen these awful things, I want to say we are going to lead a war which will be pitiless." President Francois Hollande.

I found this quote in multiple places, if I am incorrect, or the translation is tucked feel free to correct me.

Someone stated earlier the word for war is incorrect. Something about it being guerre?

 

[Blue Ninja]

This has to be among the stupidest things I've read all day.

Terrorists angry that people fleeing from their terrorism are not treated well enough? Wat?

Are you reading the same thing I am? He says Islamists were pissed we treated the refugees so humanely.

 

[BocoDragon]

Had one person on my feed saying he has been telling people for years Osama was a paid CIA asset, and now you must believe ISIS are too, used the hash tag #sheepwillbesheep ..

Ffs

Prediction:

The next big terrorist attack or mass shooting will also be claimed to be a false flag attack by self proclaimed geniuses.

Give me a fucking medal.

 

[Kuldar]

The fuck? I was watching the live stream and the translator didn't say anything.

Maybe the translator didn't know that in France we use the word daesh for this terrorist organization.

 

[Dusk Golem]

If it is ISIS or ISIL or whatever, I find it strange they haven't announced their involvement clearly yet. I'm curious what was the cause of the attacks for the moment.

 

[zsynqx]

Why did I watch the video of the people fleeing. I knew it would be disturbing and yet I still clicked the link. Can't imagine how horrifying it must have been for the people there.

 

[Jonm1010]

There's been people in the last couple of pages in this thread who appear to be claiming this aren't there?

I admit I have not read all 5700 posts. I didn't come across it, I did come a cross a number of people that implied this attack was rooted in western meddling and that is of course the height of premature. As we know nothing solid of the motives of these people so far.

And I have seen people mention western influence on fueling radicalism in general. Me included. That doesnt imply or mean people are saying the west is the sole driving force of radicalism. At least I hope not.

Radicalism is rarely if ever something that can be narrowed down to one influencer. Especially when analyzing individual members.

 

[SolidusDave]

I feel a bit uneasy that such a seemingly large scale terrorist operation and weapon smuggling went completely under the radar of the respective European agencies...

There are 1.6 BILLION Muslims. If this was as systemic and incompatible as you say the world would be fucked right now. It would be World War on a completely new level. Attacks would be daily, constant and never ending. You wouldn't have Muslims fleeing war torn areas thinking the West will give them hope for a better life.

Well, it kinda IS systemic for at least 0.5 billion Muslims who live in countries that pretty much have killing unbelievers in their constitution. i.e. capital punishment for denouncing God (or Atheism basically), blasphemy, and/or leaving Islam.
A large portion of these countries' populations must support a radical way of thinking, at least passively, or you would end up with reforms.

 

[dabig2]

My point is mostly: the answers are there. For this to stop, the crysis that needs to be solved is not in the west, and it is not something the west can solve with "behaving well" or with stomping over a country with a military intervention. In fact, i'd argue it's not something "the west" can solve at all.

We have to learn to deal with what is happening, but we are not omnipotent in what is going on in the world (and thus, blaming ourselves for everything doesn't work and ignores the agency of other cultures.)

Nothing is going to happen until the world has a very thorough debate and introspective look on religion in society and how it fuels policy. When a Shia guy gets in power, the Sunni suffer. When a Sunni guys gets in power, the Shia suffer. 2nd class citizens of course are going to turn to terror and violence when they're ostracized and have a visible and real enemy to hate.

Saddi Wahhabism in particular needs to be repudiated. Fuck their feelings. In fact, that should be the center of the entire debate of religion's role in society.

 

[DXB-KNIGHT]

Mistreatment of Muslims will push innocent Muslims towards radicalism,
Hatred creates more hatred and destruction.

 

[ecosse_011172]

Are you reading the same thing I am? He says Islamists were pissed we treated the refugees so humanely.

Yes, which isn't surprising.They desperately want to create division, anger and a sense of exclusion.

 

[AnathemicOne]

His sentence was "C’est un acte de guerre commis par une armée terroriste, Daesh, contre les valeurs que nous défendons et ce que nous sommes : un pays libre. "

Meaning "It's an act of war committed by a terrorist army, Daesh (ISIS), against the values we defend and what we are: a free country."

Damn, worst fears realized. If this turns out to be France's/Europe's equivalent of 9/11 I do hope whatever response is done with the utmost wisdom; we don't need a repeat of having the anger and sadness of those that suffered to be exploited.

 

[The Shadow Knight]

This has to be among the stupidest things I've read all day.

Terrorists angry that people fleeing from their terrorism are not treated well enough? Wat?

Unless the guy is being enormously sarcastic, I think he means the opposite. The terrorists are pissed off that the people that run from them are handled in a (somewhat) decent fashion.

 

[Starfield]

Refugees shouldn't be allowed to walk freely on the streets atleast for a while, because there's gonna be alot of angry and stupid people soon. I do not want to know what will happen in europe in the next few years....but it will be a disaster and NOT going to get better. Be it terrorist attacks or the refugee crisis.

I fear for everyone's safety.

 

[zsynqx]

Unless the guy is being enormously sarcastic, I think he means the opposite. The terrorists are pissed off that the people that run from them are handled in a (somewhat) decent fashion.

That is how I interpreted it.

 

[DXB-KNIGHT]

Any government that is associated with financing groups and Militias with weapons and such should be punished.
Support official governments and Military against terrorism. Look at what happened in Iraq or Egypt and other countries that fell in the trap of the Arabic Spring.

 

[thepotatoman]

This has to be among the stupidest things I've read all day.

Terrorists angry that people fleeing from their terrorism are not treated well enough? Wat?

I read it as terrorists angry that europeans are harboring the people fleeing from their terrorism. That the traitors of their country/religion are being treated well upsets them.

Maybe I'm just misreading sarcasm, but it seems to make sense to me. The people fleeing ISIS aren't exactly friends to ISIS or else they wouldn't be fleeing, and thus ISIS doesn't want to see them treated well.

 

[BocoDragon]

If it is ISIS or ISIL or whatever, I find it strange they haven't announced their involvement clearly yet. I'm curious what was the cause of the attacks for the moment.

It took years for evidence to surface of Al Qaida claiming responsibility for 9/11.

And apparently on Twitter, ISIS have claimed responsibility... It just can't be confirmed yet.

I think the idea of terrorists standing up immediately and saying "yes it was us" is largely a creation of fiction.

 

[nekkid]

Unless the guy is being enormously sarcastic, I think he means the opposite. The terrorists are pissed off that the people that run from them are handled in a (somewhat) decent fashion.

I read it as sarcasm.

 

[lednerg]

The US Intel community understood the world of radical extremists but while under Bush, we didn't care how much we egged them on or made conditions perfect for its growth.

 

[2San]

I still think that it's wrong to blame Islam and refugees for terror, yet I find it harder and harder to actually sympathise with muslim citizens when their point of view seems quite archaic (e.g. interpret the Quran literally) and seeing the Islam as the only true way, but never really speaking against islamistic terror.

You literally have millions of refugees mostly consisting of Muslims running away from the shit that is ISIS and you are wondering why Muslims aren't speaking out against ISIS. Really ?