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[Wellscha]

Any government that is associated with financing groups and Militias with weapons and such should be punished.
Support official governments and Military against terrorism. Look at what happened in Iraq or Egypt and other countries that fell in the trap of the Arabic Spring.

Qatar U.A.E and Saudi Arabia?

Fucking do it.

 

[Jonm1010]

I feel a bit uneasy that such a seemingly large scale terrorist operation and weapon smuggling went completely under the radar of the respective European agencies...



Well, it kinda IS systemic for at least 0.5 billion Muslims who live in countries that pretty much have killing unbelievers in their constitution. i.e. capital punishment for denouncing God (or Atheism basically), blasphemy, and/or leaving Islam.
A large portion of these countries' populations must support a radical way of thinking, at least passively, or you would end up with reforms.

Well for one most islamic countries are not democracies or stable. Nor have they been for most or all of their history. Something that is also kinda important to remember. Cultural growth is not exactly easy in the face of never ending oppression. Large parts of Africa would be another prime example of the damage instability over the long term can have on progressive cultural thought.

Then you have the millions upon millions of Muslims in western countries that seem to be getting along just fine. Not going around trying to behead atheists or Christians.

 

[ElTorro]

Unless the guy is being enormously sarcastic, I think he means the opposite. The terrorists are pissed off that the people that run from them are handled in a (somewhat) decent fashion.

I read it as terrorists angry that europeans are harboring the people fleeing from their terrorism. That the traitors of their country/religion are being treated well upsets them.

Maybe I'm just misreading sarcasm, but it seems to make sense to me. The people fleeing ISIS aren't exactly friends to ISIS or else they wouldn't be fleeing, and thus ISIS doesn't want to see them treated well.

Yeah, he probably didn't mean it sarcastically. I read it sarcastically, because we actually had issues in dealing with the refugee crisis so far. And we actually haven't done much more than what we've always done, except that the sheer numbers are much higher now.

 

[Kolx]

So they only kill each other sometimes? Doesn't really jive with your conspiracy.

The absolute majority of time not sometimes, but yes I might be wrong. I feel I drilled this thread into something it shouldn't have been and I'm sorry for that.

 

[Green Yoshi]

President Hollande just confirmed it was ISIS.

Probably not the last attack in Europe then. :-(

They still control Mossul with over one million inhabitants.

 

[Klyka]

This has to be among the stupidest things I've read all day.

Terrorists angry that people fleeing from their terrorism are not treated well enough? Wat?

They were pissed off that Europe was HUMANE and took the refugees in like Germany does. They wanted them to be cruel and refuse the refugees everywhere so that those people would hate the cuntries that wouldn't help them.

 

[DiipuSurotu]

"To all of those who have seen these awful things, I want to say we are going to lead a war which will be pitiless." President Francois Hollande.

I found this quote in multiple places, if I am incorrect, or the translation is fucked feel free to correct me.

http://tempsreel.nouvelobs.com/en-d...usillade-allons-mener-combat-impitoyable.html

Original: "Nous voulions être là, parmi ceux qui ont vu ces choses atroces, pour dire que nous allons mener le combat, qu'il sera impitoyable."

My translation: "We wanted to be here, among those who have seen these awful things, to say that we will lead the battle, that it (the battle) will be merciless."

This is a quote uttered by Hollande when he arrived at the Bataclan this night. "Combat" is battle, combat, fight, struggle, etc. Not war, at least not explicitly.

 

[Phantast2k]

Mistreatment of Muslims will push innocent Muslims towards radicalism,
Hatred creates more hatred and destruction.

Some things for you to think about / address (I you care to):
1) A lot of Westerners joining ISIS are well-educated and well off (same think applies to 9/11 hijackers btw. - at least those from KSA)
2) You come from a gulf country afair. Some of the gulf countries practically hold people as slaves, yet there is zero radicalization from them.
3) What is the mistreatment you speak of exactly? In most of Europe Muslims can practice their religion more freely than in some predominantly Muslim countries.

 

[Frodo]

Any government that is associated with financing groups and Militias with weapons and such should be punished.
Support official governments and Military against terrorism. Look at what happened in Iraq or Egypt and other countries that fell in the trap of the Arabic Spring.

Why I don't see more people asking for this?

They need to stop ISIS on its roots. They are getting support from somewhere.
Blame the responsible governments.

 

[Gorger]

Unless the guy is being enormously sarcastic, I think he means the opposite. The terrorists are pissed off that the people that run from them are handled in a (somewhat) decent fashion.

Sounds logical that would piss them off as humanity and decency is utterly void of ISIS ideology and way of thinking.

 

[superdeluxe]

The video of the alley of the theatre. Was that taken before the siege by police or during/after.

 

[danthefan]

I admit I have not read all 5700 posts. I didn't come across it, I did come a cross a number of people that implied this attack was rooted in western meddling and that is of course the height of premature. As we know nothing solid of the motives of these people so far.

And I have seen people mention western influence on fueling radicalism in general. Me included. That doesnt imply or mean people are saying the west is the sole driving force of radicalism. At least I hope not.

Radicalism is rarely if ever something that can be narrowed down to one influencer. Especially when analyzing individual members.

Hey I totally agree with this post, we know nothing about this attack, the attackers could be born and raised in France for all I know anyway.


Unrelated but just saw this too. I read a really long article on ISIS in The Atlantic (or somewhere similar) a while back with the author claiming ISIS want some kind of apocalyptic showdown with the west, in that context the below makes sense.

 

[UnluckyKate]

a good buddy of mine have no news of his cousin. She was in Petit Cambodge the restaurant that got attacked. She's a medic, she isn't on the first list of casualties, so maybe she voluntered and spend the night assisting the hospitals but still... I feel for him, this one hits close

 

[hohoXD123]

I read it as terrorists angry that europeans are harboring the people fleeing from their terrorism. That the traitors of their country/religion are being treated well upsets them.

Maybe I'm just misreading sarcasm, but it seems to make sense to me. The people fleeing ISIS aren't exactly friends to ISIS or else they wouldn't be fleeing, and thus ISIS doesn't want to see them treated well.

It could go either way, pretty ambiguous. There has been a lot of anger recently directed at European countries closing their borders and allowing refugees to die at sea, the image of the drowned Kurdish child being the most notable.

 

[lednerg]

Hollande didn't say "war," BTW, he said "fight". There's been an overzealous translation of his statement which unfortunately has been spread around like crazy.

 

[Screaming Meat]

Any government that is associated with financing groups and Militias with weapons and such should be punished.

US, China, UK, Russia... etc.

 

[typist]

I agree.

On a sidenote I heard that French intelligence is trying to keep tabs on 5000 people (was stated on CNN). That is next to impossible and then shit like this can happen. You need at least 5-10 people to monitor one individual. But it also shows that how we deal with this right now, is not working.

Thanks. Keeping tabs on 5000 potential criminals probably involves violating the privacy of many innocent people too.

I agree. There are a myriad of causes and effects that have lead to this tragedy, putting it down to one or two might help individuals make sense of it but I don't think it sheds any light on anything meaningful.

Strongly disagree here. This sounds like borderline Thought Policing to me. The potential for abuse far outweighs any security it would provide (if any).

I agree there's potential for abuse but many good systems have potential for abuse. What parent hasn't worried about their child being abused by bullies or malicious teachers at school? But a good parent still recognises the benefits of schooling are worth risking that potential for abuse. As to whether the system I proposed would provide any security, we'll never know unless we try. Theoretically though I think there's a strong argument to be made that doing a deep analysis on the character of students (and prospective citizens) would result in many benefits - to security, as well as in other regions.

 

[Koren]

I agree.

On a sidenote I heard that French intelligence is trying to keep tabs on 5000 people (was stated on CNN).

That's the number of "s files" in France. Meaning they are possible threats and should be on scrutinity.

Most of the time, people involved in tgis kind of events (like the man in the train... Thanks again to the US marines, btw) are indeed in those files.

Unfortunately, you can't indeed follow all of them... Some of them are lost for months. Some managed to reach Syria (you can go e. g. to a far EU country without border control, then take a plane for Turkey there, most probably noone will know).

 

[caleb1915]

I remember reading a post from an earlier page saying that Daesh gets their money from the oil wells they captured in the cities they invaded.

Do we know who, exactly, they are selling the oil that is being produced under them to?

 

[jetjevons]

You can't bomb an ideology.

 

[SolidusDave]

I read it as terrorists angry that europeans are harboring the people fleeing from their terrorism. That the traitors of their country/religion are being treated well upsets them.

It also goes completely against their agenda of fueling hate for the West. How are you going to recruit and brainwash young people if Europe offers so much support for their fellow Muslims?
As always, higher ups feel their power waning. Successful integration of tons of Muslims is a problem for them as this could fight radicalization from within (by the much more moderate Muslim population).

Unfortunately France was also not to keen on the war refugees and this will only make it worse.

 

[DXB-KNIGHT]

Qatar U.A.E and Saudi Arabia?

Fucking do it.

I can't defend Qatar but the others are supporting Governments and armies against Militias except in Syria where both along with the US and Turkey are supporting the opposition and I don't think these countries well defy the US.
While there is no direct proof that these governments are supporting Militias like Iran and Hezboloah, I don't think the US will allow themselves in financing a militia with Saudi Arabia.

 

[michaelius]

The repercussions of this attack are absolutely terrifying. You can bet the house that this isn't the last attack we'll see on a European capital. There's going to be a shift in the way we live our lives over the coming years/decades.

The problem is what we can do at this point as Europeans?

The whole region was kept somewhat stable by regional dictatorships but France and UK (and few other countries) helped to bomb them and topple their regimes - we thought they will change into democracies instead people living there returned to warring tribes that kill each other - and since they don't care about human rights at all it triggers massive exoduses of civilians.

But what do we now as we only had bad options to choose left.

 

[Newman96]

Gatwick airport now being evacuated apparently as a result of the attacks?

 

[C4Lukins]

http://tempsreel.nouvelobs.com/en-d...usillade-allons-mener-combat-impitoyable.html

Original: "Nous voulions être là, parmi ceux qui ont vu ces choses atroces, pour dire que nous allons mener le combat, qu'il sera impitoyable."

My translation: "We wanted to be here, among those who have seen these awful things, to say that we will lead the battle, that it (the battle) will be merciless."

This is a quote uttered by Hollande when he arrived at the Bataclan this night. "Combat" is battle, combat, fight, struggle, etc. Not war, at least not explicitly.

It sort of says the same thing, but damn that is a super different translation of it. I need to learn beyond two years of French to even begin to translate it for myself.

 

[NEO0MJ]

I remember reading a post from an earlier page saying that Daesh gets their money from the oil wells they captured in the cities they invaded.

Do we know who, exactly, they are selling the oil that is being produced under them to?

Mostly other criminal organizations and apparently even the Syrian Government, though I'm not sure how reliable that is. They also make good money selling ancient artifacts to collectors. It's funny how despite hating old "pagan" artifacts they have no problem making money off them.

 

[danthefan]

The problem is what we can do at this point as Europeans?

The whole region was kept somewhat stable by regional dictatorships but France and UK (and few other countries) helped to bomb them and topple their regimes - we thought they will change into democracies instead people living there returned to warring tribes that kill each other - and since they don't care about human rights at all it triggers massive exoduses of civilians.

But what do we now as we only had bad options to choose left.

I haven't the faintest idea I'm afraid. Maybe I'm being overly dramatic but I feel like we've crossed the rubicon here in some sense. We're never going to stop all the attacks that are coming.

 

[mehrmantrout]

I remember reading a post from an earlier page saying that Daesh gets their money from the oil wells they captured in the cities they invaded.

Do we know who, exactly, they are selling the oil that is being produced under them to?

Grey market which is huge, even in Opec countries you have Tankers being sold "off market"

A couple of articles on it http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/nov/19/-sp-islamic-state-oil-empire-iraq-isis

http://ig.ft.com/sites/2015/isis-oil/

 

[danthefan]

I remember reading a post from an earlier page saying that Daesh gets their money from the oil wells they captured in the cities they invaded.

Do we know who, exactly, they are selling the oil that is being produced under them to?

I have read before that the sell it to smugglers for below the market rate, and the smugglers then sell it into Turkey and it makes its way from there.

I have no idea how reliable that is, nor can I find the source now.

 

[caleb1915]

Grey market which is huge, even in Opec countries you have Tankers being sold "off market"

A couple of articles on it http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/nov/19/-sp-islamic-state-oil-empire-iraq-isis

http://ig.ft.com/sites/2015/isis-oil/

Thanks very much sir, I wonder if these grey markets is the same place they're getting all those Toyota vehicles.

 

[Wellscha]

The problem is what we can do at this point as Europeans?

The whole region was kept somewhat stable by regional dictatorships but France and UK (and few other countries) helped to bomb them and topple their regimes - we thought they will change into democracies instead people living there returned to warring tribes that kill each other - and since they don't care about human rights at all it triggers massive exoduses of civilians.

But what do we now as we only had bad options to choose left.

i remember the time when we clamoured for Arab Spring.

 

[G.O.O.]

I read it as sarcasm.

It's not. Look at the dude's account.

https://twitter.com/iyad_elbaghdadi

 

[nekkid]

Gatwick airport now being evacuated apparently as a result of the attacks?

It's probably a nervous reaction to something fairly mundane, but I wish everyone to be safe nonetheless.

 

[Patrick Bateman]

You literally have millions of refugees mostly consisting of Muslims running away from the shit that is ISIS and you are wondering why Muslims aren't speaking out against ISIS. Really ?

I didn't mean the refugees speaking out. I mean the muslims who are 2nd, 3rd or even 4th generation in the UK, France, Germany etc.

Lots of conservative views pop up there and that's something I don't understand. They mostly speak the language and hold the citizenship of the country they are in, yet still have some weird views.

 

[C4Lukins]

Hey I totally agree with this post, we know nothing about this attack, the attackers could be born and raised in France for all I know anyway.


Unrelated but just saw this too. I read a really long article on ISIS in The Atlantic (or somewhere similar) a while back with the author claiming ISIS want some kind of apocalyptic showdown with the west, in that context the below makes sense.

I agree with what he is saying, but if Muslims are not going to take the lead, what choice do the rest of us have?

 

[mehrmantrout]

Thanks very much sir, I wonder if these grey markets is the same place they're getting all those Toyota vehicles.

I know for a fact in Libya that Qatar bought all the Toyota's for ISIS/Brotherhood

 

[danthefan]

I've seen those quotes from Hollande about a merciless war, who is he going to go to war with exactly?

 

[zsynqx]

Gatwick Airport being evacuated apparently

Ryan Marriott ‏@DJRyanMarriott 2m2 minutes ago
So we rock up to Gatwick in me T shirt ready for Maldives an whole airport gets evacuted because a terrorist threat!

https://twitter.com/DJRyanMarriott/status/665474354264850432

It is an airport in London if you didn't know that.

 

[Hoya Destroyer]

It will be interesting to see where these terrorists were from, their age and whether they fought in Syria etc.
Its so sad. Also, they were talking about the young age of those concert goers, which makes the whole thing that much worse.

 

[Wellscha]

I know for a fact in Libya that Qatar bought all the Toyota's for ISIS/Brotherhood

Source?

 

[Frodo]

Gatwick airport now being evacuated apparently as a result of the attacks?

Source, please?

 

[Xando]

Hollande calling this an "act of war" opens the door for NATO. Feels like this is european 9/11

 

[GHG]

Source, please?

All over twitter at the moment.

 

[zsynqx]

Source, please?

Search Gatwick on twitter

 

[Grizzo]

I need to attend a family lunch in the suburbs but may stations around me are closed so it's gonna be complicated. I might have to cancel even though I really need to get away for today.

Plus I can't muster the strength to do so. Everything is so quiet in the streets, it's unbelievable. Not your usual Saturday morning in Paris.

 

[Gorger]

As always, higher ups feel their power waning. Successful integration of tons of Muslims is a problem for them as this could fight radicalization from within (by the much more moderate Muslim population).

I think ISIS fears a secular, moderate, educated muslim more than any western bombs. Failed integration is their goal, fueling the hate of xenophobic bigots is their mission. They are trying to make it as hard as possible for muslims in the western world to coexist, because they know that mistreatment and discrimination is one sure way to push people over to fundamentalism. It's extremely cold and calculated.

 

[Sutton Dagger]

Australia showing support for our French brothers and sisters.

 

[Klyka]

Grey market which is huge, even in Opec countries you have Tankers being sold "off market"

A couple of articles on it http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/nov/19/-sp-islamic-state-oil-empire-iraq-isis

http://ig.ft.com/sites/2015/isis-oil/

I have a Turkish coworker whose cousin works as a border guard on the Turkish/Syrian border.
He says the amounts of oil trucks coming through each day is staggering.
Just huge, mostly unmarked oil trucks all day.

 

[2San]

I didn't mean the refugees speaking out. I mean the muslims who are 2nd, 3rd or even 4th generation in the UK, France, Germany etc.

Who says they aren't speaking out? Pretty much every Muslim I know (and I know a lot) thinks ISIS is shit and supports the refugees. Though there are some crazies have the theory that ISIS is run by the west or Israel (but that still means that they hate ISIS)

Lots of conservative views pop up there and that's something I don't understand. They mostly speak the language and hold the citizenship of the country they are in, yet still have some weird views.

Yes Muslim do skew to more conservative by western standards (views on homosexuality bothers me in particular), but I don't see how that relates to not speaking out against ISIS.

 

[Newman96]

Source, please?

Connor Gillies ‏@ConnorGillies 2m2 minutes ago United Kingdom
BREAKING: #Gatwick #airport evacuated. Emergency services on high alert. Heightened security after #ParisAttacks.