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[azyless]

Does anybody have a link to an updated and confirmed body count? Not for the sake of morbidity, but I'm seeing different numbers everywhere I look and I'd like some accuracy.

Numbers according to François Molins (the prosecutor of the Republic, not sure how to translate his title sorry) :
7 dead terrorists
129 victims
352 injured, 99 in a critical state

Also confirmation that one of the terrorists in Bataclan was french.

.

 

[nillah]

Or instead of attacking things...just bring our western economies to move to more efficient environmental friendly energy resources like solar energy, wind, etc.

Devalue oil and it will be worth nothing more than their sand.

All their financial income will collapse and even the funding of their supporter countries and states will collapse.

All without dropping a single bomb.

If they see that they can't rely on their "natural resources" for income, they need to find other ways to get to money. History and economics showed us that countries without natural resources as a given are more likely to innovate ( - like Japan for example).

More innovation -> better education -> people won't get so easily manipulated -> radicalism slows down


(Yeah i know this would probably bring up some other forms of problems, but at least it would be a possibility)



Turkey -> rest of western world

Value in this post worth bumping

 

[Freewheelin']

I understand the whole idea behind FB adding the flag filter for profile pictures, but is it not just another example of selective grievance?

Yeah, smacks me as fucking capitalising on good publicity. Don't see any Lebanese flags being adorned over people in their bikinis on my Facebook.

 

[Kurita]

isn't ban begging already a bannable offence?

You are also completely missing my point, the majority of people don't do research. What I'm saying is from my viewpoint, which is probably the view point of a lot of people who just live off the front-page news - we get told about the opera house lights, we get told about the world leaders coming together to denounce it. But I never see any muslim protests, I never see any mosques flying flags, I never see any Muslims in a queue to give blood. I don't know if western media are just being shite, or if it's not happening. But damn, a bit of positive PR about Muslims would be good right about now and I'm surprised nobody is making it happen.

Did you check/ask the hundreds of people lining up today in France?

 

[Vilix]

Best post of the thread. I wish more western media outlets carried these stories.

 

[Always-honest]

Except he is bombing everyone but ISIS

Yeah basicly.
But i guess he thinks this is the only way.
It probably is right now.

 

[superseohyun]

how about the civilians they have under their control..... many hostages and people held against their own will

what about them? How will we go about our way bombing them to extinction without killing those people.

there is no way, just like you can never guarantee that all hostages can make out alive during a hostage situation. Try your best to save lives, but dont let it prevent you from doing anything.

 

[SmackAttack]

I've gotten similar things, it's a whole different kind of stupid, but still stupid. I also got "Trumps wall doesn't look so bad now, does it?" Good Lord -_-

Oh wow. I mean just wow. I'm too upset to even share what my dad said earlier but jeez, what is wrong with people.

 

[orochi91]

But I never see any muslim protests, I never see any mosques flying flags, I never see any Muslims in a queue to give blood. I don't know if western media are just being shite, or if it's not happening.

Write to your local media and ask them why they aren't reporting denouncements from Muslim leaders.

 

[Led_Zeppelin]

Was there really ever a plan for Iraq? That situation was entered into over lies and the Bush administration's hardon for taking out Saddam at whatever cost. I feel like the aftermath wasn't really planned that well and it was grossly underestimated of what it would really take to establish stability.

The US knew exactly what would happen with Iraq when they took down Saddam.

Here is Dick Chenney on why the US shouldn't invade Baghdad and take down Saddam back in 1994!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YENbElb5-xY

Add to this analysis putting a Shia PM puppet government and you basically can predict the uprising of the Sunni extremist and the increase of influence of Iran in the region.

This is why I wonder how naive or planned was the announcement of making Al Maliki as PM of Iraq back in 2006, btw Al Maliki is a pro Iran, so no wonder the extremist Sunnis turned into freaking ISIS.

 

[Palette Swap]

I was happy to hear this morning, that the 129 death toll is significantly lower than the 160 number I heard yesterday. I was worried it would shoot past 200 or so.
Hopefully, no one else dies. RIP to those who did.

I'd stay careful though, as there are still 352 wounded, 99 of whom were critical.
(Source: Police officials quoted by Le Monde)

 

[orochi91]

Thank you!

 

[Always-honest]

Oh wow. I mean just wow. I'm too upset to even share what my dad said earlier but jeez, what is wrong with people.

most people in my Facebook are just shocked but some really like to show how fucking stupid they are.
Ashamed that some are my family

 

[Maninthemirror]

isn't ban begging already a bannable offence?

You are also completely missing my point, the majority of people don't do research. What I'm saying is from my viewpoint, which is probably the view point of a lot of people who just live off the front-page news - we get told about the opera house lights, we get told about the world leaders coming together to denounce it. But I never see any muslim protests, I never see any mosques flying flags, I never see any Muslims in a queue to give blood. I don't know if western media are just being shite, or if it's not happening. But damn, a bit of positive PR about Muslims would be good right about now and I'm surprised nobody is making it happen.

Your viewpoint is prejudiced
Muslims protests against terrorism they are the biggest victims of it
Mosques are not there to fly non religious flags


You haven't seen any Muslim queue for blood ? What does a Muslim look like tell me

 

[Kill Your Masters]

ISIS aren't doing what they're doing "for islam", it's a pretext and a gateway for recruits, what they do has nothing to do with religion, it's just killing random people out of hate

Not just hate. Its power. They are basically using the Quran to gather power. Its not the first time in human history religion is being abused by power hungry monsters.

As if the Saudis are all about religion. I just randomly googled Saudi cocaine right now and this was the first headline, not even a month old:

Saudi prince busted with two tons of ISIS drug and cocaine on his private plane: officials

Its about money and power.

 

[Jonm1010]

I should specify, I dont believe it would work without Russian consent and some measure of Iranian participation.

But here in lies the rub. Russia is backing Assad, Iran is too. We are not. Nor is the European coalition.

So are you suggesting we just go ahead and support the Assad regime? Which has a number of secondary consequences home and abroad?

 

[mAcOdIn]

You are also completely missing my point, the majority of people don't do research. What I'm saying is from my viewpoint, which is probably the view point of a lot of people who just live off the front-page news - we get told about the opera house lights, we get told about the world leaders coming together to denounce it. But I never see any muslim protests, I never see any mosques flying flags, I never see any Muslims in a queue to give blood. I don't know if western media are just being shite, or if it's not happening. But damn, a bit of positive PR about Muslims would be good right about now and I'm surprised nobody is making it happen.

How do you know if you've never seen any Muslims giving blood? And after every one of these tragedies the largest Muslim organizations denounce it. Honestly this is an unfair double standard here. Your issue is with two people, the media and the public, the media for not covering more events the Muslim population does and the people for being so biased, or forgetful that when they do cover they don't see it or forget about it leading to this idea that they never protest it.

 

[superseohyun]

ISIS aren't doing what they're doing "for islam", it's a pretext and a gateway for recruits, what they do has nothing to do with religion, it's just killing random people out of hate

how can anyone even believe this? This level of denial is unreal. Do you think crusade has nothing to do with religion too?

 

[Switch Back 9]

.

Thanks. On the plus side, this number is lower than it was before I went to bed last night.

 

[DSFan1970]

Apparently, Muslims need to apologize en masse on a regular basis to ease the minds of some Westerners.

They shouldn't have to. But eastern culture is so different to westerners that the negative association these attacks have formed an imprint on westerners that Muslims leaders must continually fight against. Imagine if they didn't?

 

[azyless]

isn't ban begging already a bannable offence?

You are also completely missing my point, the majority of people don't do research. What I'm saying is from my viewpoint, which is probably the view point of a lot of people who just live off the front-page news - we get told about the opera house lights, we get told about the world leaders coming together to denounce it. But I never see any muslim protests, I never see any mosques flying flags, I never see any Muslims in a queue to give blood. I don't know if western media are just being shite, or if it's not happening. But damn, a bit of positive PR about Muslims would be good right about now and I'm surprised nobody is making it happen.

Well that's it really. I don't know about other news channels but France24 today had plenty of muslim civilians/journalists/writers/spokespeople/whatever giving their opinions and condemning these acts.

 

[……forgetit]

Well this just graced my wall

Wtf is wrong with people, at first an asshole just said it, now they're making pictures. I'm pretty much done with the internet today.

 

[KooopaKid]

I understand the whole idea behind FB adding the flag filter for profile pictures, but is it not just another example of selective grievance?

No, people are just confused between the French flag and the Russian flag. It's the same colors. They're grieving about Flight 9268.

 

[ElTorro]

Why don't the majority of peaceful Muslims do more to denounce this? They are killing using their religion as justification, causing a huge amount of (misguided) resentment towards all Muslims.

It's silly to expect regular Muslims to have to personally and actively denounce every single terrorist attack. Especially since the big majority of them does associate with Islamism in the first place.

The only thing that makes me angry is that the particular set of lunatics who do participate in demonstrations against the burning of the Quran or the depiction of the Prophet, as well as the people who organize these demonstrations and purposefully ignite the anger of the masses, apparently are not willing to conjure outrage of similar scales when terrorists are killing innocents in the name of their religion. Which happens all the damn time, and most of the time involves fellow Muslims as victims. Maybe I am ignorant of such mass demonstrations and someone can educate me, but the pictures of demonstrations that Google could find me are pathetic in comparison to the fabricated outrage over some fucking cartoons. It seems like the quite disturbing masses of lunatics who get outraged over nonsense like cartoons or burned paper are perfectly fine with it.

 

[TheRealTalker]

Or instead of attacking things...just bring our western economies to move to more efficient environmental friendly energy resources like solar energy, wind, etc.

Devalue oil and it will be worth nothing more than their sand.

All their financial income will collapse and even the funding of their supporter countries and states will collapse.

All without dropping a single bomb.

If they see that they can't rely on their "natural resources" for income, they need to find other ways to get to money. History and economics showed us that countries without natural resources as a given are more likely to innovate ( - like Japan for example).

More innovation -> better education -> people won't get so easily manipulated -> radicalism slows down


(Yeah i know this would probably bring up some other forms of problems, but at least it would be a possibility)

The thing is that stuff aren't that simple

no one in the West and GCC especially the elite would want to change the oil game.... corruption and business is connected in a global scale

arms trade is also a problem and people/world leaders will forever want that


ISIS sells other things like Drugs and is also known for human trafficking... The Taliban survives off of opium trade and AlShabbab was charcoal and sugar


sadly instability causes quick and easy business for security companies and arm trade.... while doing investment via education, innovation and renewable energy is a long term investment has risks that the some of the wealthy invested in short term profits don't want to take.

 

[saelz8]

Paris has borders?

 

[hydragonwarrior]

Going to get shot down for this, but what the hell.

Why don't the majority of peaceful Muslims do more to denounce this? They are killing using their religion as justification, causing a huge amount of (misguided) resentment towards all Muslims.

It's the absolute silence by the larger Muslim community which scares me the most, because when the fear-mongers start saying that x percentage of even peaceful Muslims agree with it, I can't think of a single event to use as a counter argument.

I guess the ones who do protest are the ones so well integrated you simply don't realize they are Muslims, or high-up Muslims are denouncing it and our media are just not making a big deal about it. Why don't they fly some french flags from a mosque or something like the rest of the western world is doing

There's a good chance they are standing in solidarity, but our news stations fail to report it. Rightwing news stations certainly won't (if Breitbart is any indication), so you'll want to rely on other news sources.

But it's also a bit of an odd precedent in the 21st century to have a group of people based on religion to apologize on behalf of the actions of a few people. In fact, they would be the first major religion to have to do so.

For instance, Westborough church. They only do their dumb shit in America, so most people ignore them. Christians rarely feel the need to apologize. However, if they had an extreme branch that did the same kind of attack somewhere in Europe, would it be expected for Christians (Catholic or Protestant) to denounce them as well? That's a tall order and isn't as easy as it sounds.

 

[chrizzz09]

Japan also had the major investments made by the allies post ww2 which accounts for a lot of their position in the modern economy

Yeah you're right.

Sadly, we don't even have a truly democratic economic wealthy muslim ruled country with western value system in this world, whom we can trust in taking responsibility to rebuild those countries from the ground up.

And I'm not quite confident in Turkey to take this role...

 

[HelloMeow]

Paris has borders?

What is the capital of Paris you guys?

 

[gutter_trash]

ISIS aren't doing what they're doing "for islam", it's a pretext and a gateway for recruits, what they do has nothing to do with religion, it's just killing random people out of hate

the founder of Islam, Mohamed himself was not a very nice guy, he was a military tactician and a general who used war to further his interests.

He is not an angel who dropped out of the sky, he was a man and a historical figure who has been documented in his raids, battles, wars which included deaths of civilians.

so this whole notion of trying to soften Islam is disingenuous when you just have to look at the founder of the religion for what he really was, a warlord.

 

[Shuggananas]

how can anyone even believe this? This level of denial is unreal. Do you think crusade has nothing to do with religion too?

Religion was a pretext for conquest and power in the time of crusades too

 

[Shiggy]

It's silly to expect regular Muslims to have to personally and actively denounce every single terrorist attack. Especially since the big majority of them does associate with Islamism in the first place.

The only thing that makes me angry is that the particular set of lunatics who do participate in demonstrations against the burning of the Quran or the depiction of the Prophet, as well as the people who organize these demonstrations and purposefully ignite the anger of the masses, apparently are not willing to conjure outrage of similar scales when terrorists are killing innocents in the name of their religion. Which happens all the damn time, and most of the time involves fellow Muslims as victims. Maybe I am ignorant of such mass demonstrations and someone can educate me, but the pictures of demonstrations that Google could find me are pathetic in comparison to the fabricated outrage over some fucking cartoons. It seems like the quite disturbing masses of lunatics who get outraged over nonsense like cartoons or burned paper are perfectly fine with it.

Are you sure?

 

[DiipuSurotu]

isn't ban begging already a bannable offence?

You are also completely missing my point, the majority of people don't do research. What I'm saying is from my viewpoint, which is probably the view point of a lot of people who just live off the front-page news - we get told about the opera house lights, we get told about the world leaders coming together to denounce it. But I never see any muslim protests, I never see any mosques flying flags, I never see any Muslims in a queue to give blood. I don't know if western media are just being shite, or if it's not happening. But damn, a bit of positive PR about Muslims would be good right about now and I'm surprised nobody is making it happen.

 

[RoyalFool]

There's a good chance they are standing in solidarity, but our news stations fail to report it. Rightwing news stations certainly won't (if Breitbart is any indication), so you'll want to rely on other news sources.

Here in the UK the best I've seen so far is "Look at all this amazing unity from across the western world, oh and we found this one token muslim on twitter who denounced it" - it's terrible

^ (Post above) See, that's amazing - but I had to come on a forum and piss people off to find out about it, why isn't it trending or going viral, why don't the media cover it? Frustrating!

 

[AcademicSaucer]

Except he is bombing everyone but ISIS

Dude no, they are making huge gains against ISIS in Aleppo as we speak.

 

[ElTorro]

Are you sure?

Yes. The polls I've seen suggest that a disturbingly large minority does support Islamism. But the big majority does not.

 

[SmackAttack]

Well this just graced my wall



Wtf is wrong with people, at first an asshole just said it, now they're making pictures. I'm pretty much done with the internet today.

I just... I really don't know what to say here.

 

[Shiggy]

Yes. The polls I've seen suggest that a disturbingly large minority does support Islamism. But the big majority does not.

Ugh :/

 

[Diablos]

Well this just graced my wall



Wtf is wrong with people, at first an asshole just said it, now they're making pictures. I'm pretty much done with the internet today.

Not to mention if the US really did need to guard the border in a true emergency (i.e. terrorism) you get the army to it asap. We've already sent troops there for the immigration crisis.

And even if we did have Trump's wet dream border a few bombs would exploit it easily. Anyone who would be able to plan a complex attack against us would know that.

 

[LNBL]

Yeah, smacks me as fucking capitalising on good publicity. Don't see any Lebanese flags being adorned over people in their bikinis on my Facebook.

Exactly, took it upon myself to edit my profile picture with our flag personally. It's a sad reality though. These actions are horrible, no matter where they take place and they all deserve our attention.

 

[Shuggananas]

Well this just graced my wall



Wtf is wrong with people, at first an asshole just said it, now they're making pictures. I'm pretty much done with the internet today.

Bigots gonna bigots, just delete friend and move on :/

 

[RedSparrows]

the founder of Islam, Mohamed himself was not a very nice guy, he was a military tactician and a general who used war to further his interests.

He is not an angel who dropped out of the sky, he was a man and a historical figure who has been documented in his raids, battles, wars which included deaths of civilians.

so this whole notion of trying to soften Islam is disingenuous when you just have to look at the founder of the religion for what he really was, a warlord.

And it's equally disingenuous to see Islam as only a religion of war and death, given the multifaceted, hell, even pluralist, history it has, and continues to have. Muhammed to ISIS and to Sufist pacifism. Let alone the fact that over one billion people practise some form of Islam without the world being, as it actually is not, contrary to 'WWIII' hysteria, engulfed in titantic religious wars et al.

 

[Led_Zeppelin]

Except he is bombing everyone but ISIS

That isn't true. Grab a Syrian Map and check the cities where Russia has been bombing and is bombing and its advancing and see which ones are in control under ISIS, Al Nusra, The Sunni Opposition and the Syrian Kurds.

 

[orochi91]

Yeah, smacks me as fucking capitalising on good publicity. Don't see any Lebanese flags being adorned over people in their bikinis on my Facebook.

Precisely.

 

[nillah]

Well this just graced my wall



Wtf is wrong with people, at first an asshole just said it, now they're making pictures. I'm pretty much done with the internet today.

I mean, a wall couldn't hurt your facebook wall

 

[Calm waterfall]

The amazon.fr homepage is fairly tasteful.

Youtube is doing the same with the coloring the word Tube in French flag colors.

 

[Always-honest]

Dude no, they are making huge gains against ISIS in Aleppo as we speak.

i think he was talking about the amount of innocent people getting killedn in the process. But that's probably the only way right now if you really want to get rid of them.
Ofcours they're also hitting ISIS hard.

 

[Maninthemirror]

the founder of Islam, Mohamed himself was not a very nice guy, he was a military tactician and a general who used war to further his interests.

He is not an angel who dropped out of the sky, he was a man and a historical figure who has been documented in his raids, battles, wars which included deaths of civilians.

so this whole notion of trying to soften Islam is disingenuous when you just have to look at the founder of the religion for what he really was, a warlord.

This thinking drips into hate for religion dripping further into hate for the Muslim way of living which is Islam which itself feeds and grows into prejudice, paranoia and some vent into
Completely bigotry. The Muhammad wasn't a nice guy started with Christian missionaries in crusades, the same missionaries who you now rail against as causing mayhem in Middle Ages. Please learn history

He was not a general or a warlord he was their religious and social leader which meant they looked to him to lead them in defensive wars against Quraysh because they believed God would help them through Muhammad. Being their leader in all things didn't mean he was primarily a general , but they looked at him to lead the defensive effort from the armies bent on killing them


The harden view of Islam is that of wahabbism and maudoodism and the Hanbali school of thought while the majority are that of the hanafi school of thought

 

[segasonic]

Well this just graced my wall



Wtf is wrong with people, at first an asshole just said it, now they're making pictures. I'm pretty much done with the internet today.

"Paris closed their borders"

yes, people of the internets. The national borders of the Republic of Paris have been closed.

picardfacepalm.gif

 

[Palette Swap]

Well that's it really. I don't know about other news channels but France24 today had plenty of muslim civilians/journalists/writers/spokespeople/whatever giving their opinions and condemning these acts.

I24 News usually has Muslim and Middle-Eastern viewpoints. That can sound weird as it's a French-Israeli station but it's always seemed fair and balanced to me. They broadcast in French, English and Arabic.

They do some pretty good reporting. Typically, their timeline seems very solid: http://www.i24news.tv/en/mobile#content/92392