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[Cybit]

The end of World War One ruined the Middle East in so many ways it's astounding. Britain really just went in there and it feels they just didn't care.


Back to the main topic, this is just awful and horrible. I hope they manage to capture all those who helped commit this disgusting attack. All these poor innocent people didn't deserve this.

Honestly - this goes back to the Mongols. The Middle East has been adrift ever since the Mongols wiped out the Caliphate - and they've wanted a return back. The Middle East was set to turn on itself based on the Shiite / Sunni / Kurd issue - wouldn't have mattered if we had went in or not.

You don't...want to go down the historical paths that are used to fight ideologies. Not with 21st century weaponry.

 

[ElectricBlanketFire]

Members of the Deftones also made it out of the venue 15 minutes before the attacks started. They were scheduled to play there over the weekend.

http://www.fuse.tv/2015/11/deftones-paris-terrorist-attack-15-minutes

Holy shit!

 

[KingSnake]

Things went well in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Things went well in Germany after the first world war.

 

[sflufan]

Now comes the really hard part for the intelligence services: unraveling the network.

Start by identifying the terrorists, move on to their family and closest friends/associates, expand that circle outward, start looking for links with the Charlie Hebdo terrorists...

 

[kingocfs]

Stereogum just tweeted that one band member was killed. I'm on mobile and can't post a screenshot.

 

[bistromathics]

any reports on the state of eagles of death metal themselves?

where are they?

those guys from a recent cbb? how did they mixed up in this?

edit: guess one of the attacks was at a music hall

 

[Deleted member 80556]

"I would have started by dropping supplies and information on Germany. Food for the hungry. Dollars, francs and pounds - about 130 billion marks worth. Photos of families. Pictures drawn by children. Photos of children playing together, with captions like: "two of these are Jewish, can you tell which ones?" Leaflets too, questioning the futility of war, promoting compassion and so on. I would drop all my guns, without bullets, and broken fragments of artillery equipment. Books from the greatest authors, art from the greatest painters, and music from the greatest composers. All the treasures of my people.

Then I would write a letter and make sure everyone read it. It would tell the Germans that me and my people were coming over the border, unarmed and well-fed, to march on Berlin and put the leaders of the Nazi party on trial for their crimes. It would ask the people of Germany for their support in this. The letter would predict the possible massacre that the German military would inflict on foreign protesters. It would also beg the common soldier to wake up, and refuse to follow such mad orders. But the letter would emphasise, massacre or not, the protest would go on to the last man, woman and child. Some things are worth dying for

That would be the gist of it anyway. There was something like 20 million combat deaths in WW2, estimates vary. That's like three and a half Holocausts. Better to die a misguided idealist than have that much blood on your hands. If the protesters were all killed and the Nazi party kept its power, then it's better to be dead than a member of the human race anyway. Just my preference though, would probably be carted off to an asylum for even suggesting it"

I had forgotten this amazing pearl.

 

[Mecha]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metrojet_Flight_9268#Explosive_device_hypothesis

Duh, completely forgot about that.

 

[goomba]

ISIS in Syria and Iraq is a state

which world governments have recognised this state?

 

[Starphoenix]

I'm really worried about Black Friday here in the United States. The malls have been threatened already. It wouldn't take much for a Kenya style attack (or several) on one of the busiest shopping days...

 

[params7]

Assad still worse than ISIS? Do we still want to fund power vacuums because Israel/Saudis want it?

 

[Salsa]

those guys from a recent cbb? how did they mixed up in this?

they were the ones playing the venue

 

[Jacobi]

which world governments have recognised this state?

None, but does it matter? ISIS governs the people there

 

[SwolBro]

I'm really worried about Black Friday here in the United States. The malls have been threatened already. It wouldn't take much for a Kenya style attack (or several) on one of the busiest shopping days...

man... i can't even. step up security USA, step it up for this day.

 

[ShalashaskaEx]

In the end guns and explosives are cheap/easy to make and/or smuggle. Regardless of gun control.

Exactly. Gun control only takes away guns from people that follow the law. It does nothing for bad guys except ensure they can murder as many people as possible, without resistance. Like we saw tonight. It's too bad none of those people had the option to even TRY and defend themselves.

 

[davepoobond]

Assad still worse than ISIS?

equal footing.

 

[Michael F. Assbender]

I feel absolutely worthless saying this, but my thoughts are with you, Paris.

Exactly. Gun control only takes away guns from people that follow the law. It does nothing for bad guys except ensure they can murder as many people as possible, without resistance. Like we saw tonight. It's too bad none of those people had the option to even TRY and defend themselves.

Jesus fucking Christ, is this really the time to be spouting Second Amendment nonsense?

And people accuse the left of being opportunistic about gun tragedies...

Edit: I apologize for the outburst. I think I've just reached my limit on shootings and tragedies. I need to back away from GAF and the news for a while.

 

[Deleted member 80556]

People are leaving flowers in France's embassy in Montreal:

 

[Vire]

more than this?:



and more than drunkyard checking bouncers? specially if you promise it after a tragedy

not saying have a swat team in there, but be on the ready. ive talked to french friends who were actually expecting something like this sooner than later

you are supposed to tighten security in public places, venues, gatherings, and such after something like Hebdo, specially if you promise it. Seems like they didnt. this wasnt some random underground nightclub either

I just don't see how much good a pat down is going to do when they have suicide vests strapped to their chests. It's nearly impossible to stop at that point.

 

[bistromathics]

they were the ones playing the venue

my bad, I thought it was a soccer field, a movie theater, and a restaurant based on what i saw on tv earlier tonight. was it not a movie theater but a music one?

 

[Jacobi]

Assad still worse than ISIS? Do we still want to fund power vacuums because Israel/Saudis want it?

Assad is doing this shit with his own people

 

[Snaku]

Things went well in Germany after the first world war.

Things went well in Germany and Japan after World War II.

 

[Burai]

i'll just refrain to my earlier post about coming off of Hebdo and the promises of upped security at places like this, then

What do you propose? Armed guards at every public venue in France? You're talking tens of thousands of trained gunmen deployed all day every day in the off chance that an attack might happen. Who pays for that? Where do these guards even come from?

And say you've got a team of gunmen on the doors of the Bataclan and the first person they encounter is a suicide bomber who takes them all out, clearing the path for those that follow, then what?

 

[KingSnake]

What a laughable shitty comparison. Germany and Japan signed unconditional surrenders and the war was over. Is there some grand islamic jihad leader that will do that for the thousand extremist groups out there?

Not to mention there wasn't a war on Nazism for 15 years leading up to 1939 either.

You can have Bagdhadi sign an uncoditional surrender if that's your fetish. That's not the point. And you know it well, since you already answered to the other post. I see no point in repeating it, as you keep answering only to collateral things.

Things went well in Germany and Japan after World War II.

Well, that's my point. Failing once it's not an excuse to not act again in a similar situation if action is required. You just need to prepare better the aftermath.

 

[Enter the Dragon Punch]

I haven't been keeping up the last few hours - could someone people educate me on what's going on this moment? I went to go see my nephew right after the hostage situation was cleared up and the ~100 were found dead

 

[GoldenEye 007]

Honestly - this goes back to the Mongols. The Middle East has been adrift ever since the Mongols wiped out the Caliphate - and they've wanted a return back. The Middle East was set to turn on itself based on the Shiite / Sunni / Kurd issue - wouldn't have mattered if we had went in or not.

You don't...want to go down the historical paths that are used to fight ideologies. Not with 21st century weaponry.

My brain stopped at WWII, but yeah WWI had a larger influence - and as you say origins of conflicts today can be traced back even well before that.

So what the hell can be done? Drone strikes don't work, I'm not sure a peaceful education/infrastructure initiative alone is possible, a half-cooked Iraq war situation, really doesn't work.

What is there to do? Total war coupled with long-term occupation and building? I feel like anything along those lines will be a WWIII. Is that necessary, though? I'm having dark thoughts that it might be required to ultimately start moving past this rise of terrorism and instability that lets it thrive.

 

[antonz]

I just don't see how much good a pat down is going to do when they have suicide vests strapped to their chests. It's nearly impossible to stop at that point.

I think people have to realize in reality it was not a hostage situation. It was always intended to be a mass casualty incident. The Bouncers at the doors may have been the first ones killed considering by all reports the gunmen fired on their way in.

There was no happy ending outcome possible to this sadly. People are fortunate they were able to escape in the carnage but these guys had suicide vests etc. and used them the moment the police made their move.

 

[Oersted]

Things went well in Germany after the first world war.

I love how the answer after WWII was support a democracy, build up the economy, while the answer for the Middle East is mostly to back up dictators.

 

[Valhelm]

What a laughable shitty comparison. Germany and Japan signed unconditional surrenders and the war was over. Is there some grand islamic jihad leader that will do that for the thousand extremist groups out there?

Not to mention there wasn't a war on Nazism for 15 years leading up to 1939 either.

ISIS is a lot more similar to Nazi Germany than many officials want to admit. It's got a government, it's got territory, and it's certainly got an army.

 

[Salsa]

What do you propose? Armed guards at every public venue in France? You're talking tens of thousands of trained gunmen deployed all day every day in the off chance that an attack might happen. Who pays for that? Where do these guards even come from?

And say you've got a team of gunmen on the doors of the Bataclan and the first person they encounter is a suicide bomber who takes them all out, clearing the path for those that follow, then what?

I just don't see how much good a pat down is going to do when they have suicide vests strapped to their chests. It's nearly impossible to stop at that point.

how is this thinking not flawed then? wtf?

"oh say they come at you with an explosive vest? what then! so lets just skimp on security"


cmon

all im saying is reports are coming that security was ridiculously scarse and this is coming right off Hollande talking about upping security at venues cause of Hebdo is all

not saying its the end all be all to this sort of problem, but everything seems to imply they could and should have done more.

 

[SmackAttack]

I haven't been keeping up the last few hours - could someone people educate me on what's going on this moment? I went to go see my nephew right after the hostage situation was cleared up and the ~100 were found dead

I would like to know as well. I took a break from reading this because it was making me too upset. Did they get all of the gunmen?

 

[Burai]

Exactly. Gun control only takes away guns from people that follow the law. It does nothing for bad guys except ensure they can murder as many people as possible, without resistance. Like we saw tonight. It's too bad none of those people had the option to even TRY and defend themselves.

Yeah, exactly what you need in a concert venue full of thousands of panicking people - giving all of those people guns.

 

[Vincent Alexander]

Yuck...I have 5 friends who live in Paris. I've heard from 4 of them, and surely the 5th is fine. Still makes me nervous.

You're in my thoughts, France.

 

[deefol]

Exactly. Gun control only takes away guns from people that follow the law. It does nothing for bad guys except ensure they can murder as many people as possible, without resistance. Like we saw tonight. It's too bad none of those people had the option to even TRY and defend themselves.

It obviously works very well for America

 

[BigMastadon]

my bad, I thought it was a soccer field, a movie theater, and a restaurant based on what i saw on tv earlier tonight. was it not a movie theater but a music one?

Concert venue was the big one (hostages and all)

 

[ShalashaskaEx]

I'm really worried about Black Friday here in the United States. The malls have been threatened already. It wouldn't take much for a Kenya style attack (or several) on one of the busiest shopping days...

Yes, definitely keep your head on a swivel and keep situational awareness. Or better yet, just stay home and shop on Amazon like I do.

It would be amazingly easy to bomb or shoot up a mall in the USA. Actually, I'm amazed it hasn't happened yet, whether from terrorists or home grown crazies.

 

[MrGerbils]

This is just the beginning, unfortunately. This scene will be repeated around Europe. It's only going to get worse. So sad. RIP to the victims.



Yeah, for real. People here have insisted that this kind of thing can't happen with European style gun control, so how could this happen?

This was likely perpetrated by a highly organized and very well funded terrorist group with members across the world who have sworn their entire lives in dedication to their fanatical religious beliefs. It's very difficult to stop.

Kind of different than an emo kid waking up one day and deciding he wants to shoot up a movie theater because reasons and just having to walk in to Wal-Mart to get the means to do it. That would be very easy to stop.

 

[daedalius]

Exactly. Gun control only takes away guns from people that follow the law. It does nothing for bad guys except ensure they can murder as many people as possible, without resistance. Like we saw tonight. It's too bad none of those people had the option to even TRY and defend themselves.

GTFO

 

[Arkeband]

Exactly. Gun control only takes away guns from people that follow the law. It does nothing for bad guys except ensure they can murder as many people as possible, without resistance. Like we saw tonight. It's too bad none of those people had the option to even TRY and defend themselves.

In what bizarro dimension do you live in which civilians have ever once defended themselves against terrorists with grenades, explosive suicide vests, and assault rifles with handguns?

Seriously, get a grip. France has 50x less gun deaths per year than the U.S. adjusted for population, so unless you value American lives so little, just admit that it works.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

ISIS is a lot more similar to Nazi Germany than many officials want to admit. It's got a government, it's got territory, and it's certainly got an army.

Nazi Germany provided a somewhat functional governing system to those that they weren't trying to murder. ISIS's territory doesn't have electricity.

 

[params7]

equal footing.

I'd say Assad operating secular institutions within Syria puts him in a bit better footing, where for the majority of his rule we did not experience the migrant crisis that we experienced since ISIS started its tug of war for the throne. I'll say Assad gets better footing where he at least lets you live for not taking part in political dissension. Women of all Syria undoubtedly prefer Assad over ISIS.

Oh ISIS, a force Saddam would have squashed without trying.

 

[Hydrus]

I had forgotten this amazing pearl.

That was one of the hardest things I've ever had to read on this site. I cringed myself into a coma.

 

[Daft_Cat]

Exactly. Gun control only takes away guns from people that follow the law. It does nothing for bad guys except ensure they can murder as many people as possible, without resistance. Like we saw tonight. It's too bad none of those people had the option to even TRY and defend themselves.

I understand that this is genuine and from the heart, but it's really not the time for a pro-second amendment soapbox.

 

[zsynqx]

Does this seem like an isolated incident or are there likely to be follow up attacks in the next couple of days? May sound crazy but I am worried about going into London tomorrow.

 

[lednerg]

http://www.nbcbayarea.com/entertainment/Hostages-Eagles-of-Death-Metal-Paris-Concert-347921681.html

Two members of [Eagles of Death Metal's] crew told an NBC News reporter that one of the band members have died in the attack. It is unclear which band member was killed.​

There's conflicting reports, so I don't know what to make of this. Earlier, we heard from the drummer's wife they were all okay.

NBC retracted it. Everybody in the band is okay.

 

[Smiley90]

Exactly. Gun control only takes away guns from people that follow the law. It does nothing for bad guys except ensure they can murder as many people as possible, without resistance. Like we saw tonight. It's too bad none of those people had the option to even TRY and defend themselves.

can we not do this shit?

thanks.

 

[Ether_Snake]

Nazi Germany provided a somewhat functional governing system to those that they weren't trying to murder. ISIS's territory doesn't have electricity.

Pretty sure they do have electricity.

 

[params7]

Assad is doing this shit with his own people

Yet they're running from ISIS, not Assad.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

You can have Bagdhadi sign an uncoditional surrender if that's your fetish. That's not the point. And you know it well, since you already answered to the other post. I see no point in repeating it, as you keep answering only to collateral things.

I'm just point out how ridiculously foolish your comparison is. Comparing Nazis and the Japanese to religious zealots in terrorist cells.

You can make the case you want to make but at least admit what it actually entails instead of this fallacy that we can just go in there and destroy islamic extremists and then it's all happy endings. Like the last 15 years didn't just happen.

 

[Oersted]

Exactly. Gun control only takes away guns from people that follow the law. It does nothing for bad guys except ensure they can murder as many people as possible, without resistance. Like we saw tonight. It's too bad none of those people had the option to even TRY and defend themselves.

Less gun control makes it easier to get a gun. Those who want to use a gun, will use it. Now look what happens in America.