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Penny-Arcade: "Marketers of the Avenger Controller are thieves and liars".
- Thread starter SpeedingUptoStop
- Start date
lol wut
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
So...he's a douchebag. You know this. Many other people know this. Everyone knows what a complete asshole he is now. Hopefully anyone who investigates him for employment in the future will learn that as well, thanks to this whole series of events.
At this point what purpose does continued aggression serve?
VibratingDonkey
Member
Don't know what's transpired after yesterday, so I'll just say I feel bad for the company that employed the services of this asshat. Apparently it's a good product, especially for people with disabilities, he's tarnished the reputation of. This guy really should not be working in customer relations.
la flama blanca
Banned
Just as bad if not worse, than Al Queda AMIRIGHT?!
I think quite a few of us have and still disagree. Much of the information "dug up" was a simple search away. There's not prying into the lives of them and we keep getting false information about posted fiancee information (barring the bits on her working with him at Ocean Market(t)ing), there's been no physical violence against him or his family, no death threats, and so-on. I feel fairly safe in saying that, as of right now, his family is alive and well and the internet hasn't harmed anyone.
There's a lot of cart before the horse arguing going on here. That the information found was purposefully sought after. Not necessarily so. Much of it came about from honest to god simple searches and then shared. Not to say there aren't people out there looking for more and more dirt under the misguided illusion of "THIS IS SCHADENFREUDE" but it is definitely getting blown out of proportion on the extents of this "probing" being done.
I agree that perhaps it has gotten excessive but, at the same time, we're in like hour 30 of this fiasco. It's kind of the internet's thing to latch onto it and run it into the ground like that. Not to say that's a justification of the actions taken but it is the reality of the situation. Since more details are surfacing about N-Control and Paul's replacement, who knows where the rabbit hole will take us now.
AtomicShroom
Member
It's really weird how a lot of you have been assuming that Ocean Marketing is a big company of which Paul is merely an employee amongst many...
From all I've been reading and seeing, it really rather sounds like a one-man operation ran by Paul alone, or perhaps assisted by his wife at most.
The fact that he, himself, attends events, responds to mails, answers the phone, operates the twitter account, and that his poor grammar is seen in everything that the company has put out (and that wasn't plagiarized (like most of their wwebsite is)), really makes it seem like he's been running this out of his basement alone.
It reeks of shadiness. I can't imagine this guy getting a job at any serious marketing company with the kind of poor writing and ethics that he has. Heck, my English is better than his, and it's not even my first language!
From all I've been reading and seeing, it really rather sounds like a one-man operation ran by Paul alone, or perhaps assisted by his wife at most.
The fact that he, himself, attends events, responds to mails, answers the phone, operates the twitter account, and that his poor grammar is seen in everything that the company has put out (and that wasn't plagiarized (like most of their wwebsite is)), really makes it seem like he's been running this out of his basement alone.
It reeks of shadiness. I can't imagine this guy getting a job at any serious marketing company with the kind of poor writing and ethics that he has. Heck, my English is better than his, and it's not even my first language!
The purpose it serves is a reminder for people that if you want to act like a douche, this is what you get. Always remember, never forget. Maybe?
Osiris
I permanently banned my 6 year old daughter from using the PS4 for mistakenly sending grief reports as it's too hard to watch or talk to her
This kind of reminds me of the treatment Sam Jain got during the leak of his IM's and the resulting collapse of eFront.
SJ also had the internet dogs of war unleashed upon him, and found his treatment by the masses was equally applauded/disapproved of.
Of course Sam Jain went on to drop the cover of "legitimate, but unethical businessman" and became a straight out no-holds-barred criminal and I believe is still a fugitive on the run from the law.
SJ also had the internet dogs of war unleashed upon him, and found his treatment by the masses was equally applauded/disapproved of.
Of course Sam Jain went on to drop the cover of "legitimate, but unethical businessman" and became a straight out no-holds-barred criminal and I believe is still a fugitive on the run from the law.
That's exactly the way I'm seeing this whole situation. Be a douche, deal with it.
I suspected Princess Skittles being Paul, but then I saw the good orthography.
Manmademan
Member
No one is assuming this. At this point it's blindingly obvious that his claims of being a 125 man operation are completely BS.
If he keeps digging that hole he got himself in he'll soon show up in China
Never saw that one when it came out. I died! XD At least he deleted it.
br0ken_shad0w
Member
Let's not give the company a pass. Yes, he first made the controller for a disabled boy, but nowhere has it been marketed for the disabled. Someone had to scrounge up an old news article for that.
Countless shipping delays (months at a time even) are what caused this blow up in the first place. It sounds more and more like a poorly run company from a guy who thought he could make it big because he won 20k for his controller.
I don't think the company that's making and distributing that controller addon is much bigger.
faceless007
Member
Reddit.
By this logic, vigilante justice is always acceptable because it is accurately described as "acting to counteract that misbehavior in some way." In general, one bad act does not justify another.
Paul is a douche of epic and unbelievable proportions. Gabe is a douche of far, far lesser proportions. I can't seen any reason to self-censor the latter statement other than people want this thread to be exclusively and entirely a hate-fest against one party, in which case, what's the point of the fucking discussion? Any attempt by you to mischaracterize and dismiss that stance into a defense of Paul by some bullshit "Well he's worse!" fallacy is just a more eloquent version of "white knight."
I expect better than straw men from you. No one has claimed the bold. Certainly not me. If you're so locked into binary thinking that you can't see how criticizing two parties while still acknowledging that they are not equivalently wrong is possible there isn't much more I can say.
In any case, your defense of Gabe seems to be that he posted the e-mail chain purely as an informational PSA to a curious public and therefore bears no responsibility at all for what his readers did with the information. That argument might have worked the first time he sicced the mob on an unsuspecting target, but he can't claim ignorance anymore.
Manmademan
Member
It's looking more and more like the company is complicit in Paul's actions also. After claiming to have "fired" him, it looks like the new company PR mouthpiece is another shell account for Paul.
I really hope this thing seriously backfires on everyone involved in that operation at this point.
Yeah, it's just like that.
rollseyes.gif
What continued aggression? I thought we were just discussing what had gone down.
None, I suppose. But its not like people are being harassed into doing it. People are voicing their opinions on it. Commenting. Some instead are creating memes or making videos. Thats what happens, and it doesn't always have to have a purpose. Venting, and like I said, it will all be ancient history in a day or two. Kicking a guy when he's down? Yeah, perhaps there's a bit of that. But he openly asked for the kicks. He goaded people into publicizing this, and even threatened to get 120 people to help him with a smear campaign. Now he's facing the backlash.
And no one is disagreeing with the fact that Paul is a douchebag. We're mostly concerned that when dealing out justice, there doesn't ever seem to be a "enough is enough" quota. People will take it too far when someone is unpopular, and will have no problems sinking to or even below that person's level of disrespect.
For example, Me acting disrespectful to you doesn't automatically justify you digging around for information about my personal life or my Significant Others life to slug around "to get justice". Most of the info (such as email/phone number) are out there in public, but that doesn't mean sending harrassing emails/calls is considered "in the right" (outside of the original email exchange in the OP).
If he gets fired from his position, ruin his career. Fine, fits the crime (being a disrespectful asshat in a customer service industry).
Anything after that (Gabe gloating about the whole bit, while Tycho seems to know that its a bit much w/ joke added)? A bit unnecessary and puts PA in a bad light.
And remember, Gabe posting the Original e-mail is NOT the problem. Sticking up for the little guy is not the problem. The problem is knowing when "enough is enough" instead of letting "it all burn to the ground and taking you with me" and just moving on. Its an issue that puts most Gamers in a bad light, since our biggest reps (Tycho & Gabe) seem to don't have a lot of self control when dealing with things that anger them (or maybe its just Gabe, I don't know).
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
For me the "continued aggression" was anything after it was clear that his reputation was ruined, and likely with it his job. If we're saying it was "just like investigative journalism" then the point of the endeavor in the first place was to make sure that people were aware so he couldn't pull this shit again. I mean, I don't even have a huge problem with people still spamming him on Twitter, there's just no way to control a group like this. But while there may not have been anything "wrong" about digging up personal information about him on Facebook and the like, I'm really at a loss to think of a reason why that information helped in the endeavor.
AtomicShroom
Member
I'm too lazy to go back the 40 pages of this thread to dig up posts to quote, but I saw many posts from people seemingly believing the 125-man thing. It's obviously bullshit.
Also that youtube vid portraying him as being a mere call center agent.
To be fair, if I was trying to market this for actual profit, I'd go for the CoD crowd too and not the disabled gamer crowd.
It's a fine line, really. "Justice" is great and so is the idea of the common man bringing it about. But we've probably all seen it get taken way too far out of proportion at some point thanks to the Internet as a whole. Or saw it on some cop drama. So, yes, "one bad act does not justify another" indeed.
What did Gabe do? He posted it and then he's reveling in the destruction that has rained down. Now, I've accepted that I'm probably a shitty human being and all but I don't see the former as a big enough deal to condemn him for anything; sure, the latter is a bit in poor taste but I've come to accept that that response is basically par for the course.
I just can't equate Gabe to being responsible for the behavior of the Internet as a whole. Kotaku broke the steroids bit and they were part of Dave's original emailing; is that Penny-Arcade's fault? At least one of the parody twitter accounts is someone from GAF; is that Penny-Arcade's fault? Some of troll reviews of the product on Amazon are from GAF; is that Penny-Arcade's fault? Sure, Gabe was rather passive aggressive in this and got the ball rolling on it all but I'm not ready to condemn him for guilty of the actions of everyone else, regardless of this not being his first internet witch hunt.
Actually, quite a few people were claiming that Gabe was just as bad, if not worse, than Paul. Maybe you haven't but others have made the claim.
Manmademan
Member
yeah, it blew up incredibly fast. Internet detectives pretty know just about everything about this guy and his operation by now.
Both N-control and "Ocean Marketing" appear to be the same one or two man operation working out of the home.
Zaraki_Kenpachi
Member
Such as?
I'm quoting this because it addresses 95% of Paul Cristoforo sympathizers.
I think it's more about the aggression from the internet and not from this thread specifically. I think we all agree the guy is a douche, we just don't all agree on how long the harassment should continue.
Pinko Marx
Banned
With all these crazy updates and reveals going on behind whats happening at Ocean Marketing/N-Control, the next thing we'll find out is that they were behind 9/11 or something.
Neuromancer
Member
I know this is beating a dead horse at this point but...
Ocean Marketing's web site:
Hoisted by his own petard!
Ocean Marketing's web site:
Hoisted by his own petard!
Basically.
The Facebook stuff came up before his reputation was ruined. Like I said, there seems to be a lot of cart before the horse going on here. Can we get examples of further ridicule of the man after the dust had settled? Perhaps we're using different ending points or something but I figure everything after his actual firing to be where we can talk of "excessive." And, as far as I know, nothing came about after that point besides the parody video; no new information has surfaced besides the now "Hmm, is N-Control themselves shady?!" bits.
I wouldn't worry about this too much. It's not like the Internet has a long attention span.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Amibguous Cad
Member
The point being that one can support the result a process achieved while being worried that that process will not reach such positive conclusions in the future.
No. EVERYBODY commenting on the issue was in it to satisfy themselves emotionally.
crazygambit
Member
I think right about now would be good for a summary of what has happened after the OP. Did this guy get fired?
Mind you, I do agree that some things we did find out were a bit much but a lot of people arguing about what was found seem to think we knew what was expected to be found; "I don't know why you had to dig that up!" doesn't really make sense. I did some Googling of his email address, real name, and his screename; maybe much but, honestly, it was like three Google searches in total :/
And, personally, I felt that Myspace, Facebook, Twitter, etc. were all open for hunting since ... he did consider himself a Social Media Expert. Just feels fitting to go through those avenues here.
His "firm" has been let go by N-Control. He still has his "job" though since it is his own company/basement and all.
MrNyarlathotep
Banned
I agree that a basic level of personal privacy should be respected where it bears no relation to the matter in hand; that's why GAF are fine with post histories to demonstarte bias or hypocrisy, but playing internet detective to conduct an ad hominem attack is bannable.
So the apologies he sent to the people directly involved 'weren't real', but an open letter to PA would be?
Surely the person here who actually deserves the fucking apology is Dave, the consumer who was belittled and treated shabbily, not fucking Gabe because someone didn't know who he was? Or does the actual flashpoint point of this shitstorm not even matter anymore to the crusaders?
Turk
Member
Manmademan
Member
there was a communication that he was "let go" by N-control, though some digging by internet detectives has made it obvious that this new person handling communications (eli schwartz) is still him.
I don't know, this guy might have a couple of years planned out. He even added Anonymous_UK to his tweet hoping they may want to get in on the fun.
I think a lot of people treat Penny-Arcade as ground zero rather than the staging grounds :/
And they both did get apologies. However, Dave's was basically "I didn't take you seriously" and Gabe's was "Didn't know you were bigger than me." Those are not apologies by any means. People want to see a real, actual apology letter. Though, at this point, it's probably too little, too late.
I was talking about if the guy wanted to save his hide publicly, he should use the PA website to get his message across. Of course I think Dave deserves a proper apology. Get real.
JonathanEx
Member
Didn't see this posted yet, had a look but no sign:
http://penny-arcade.com/2011/12/28/i-wwebsite-as-on-the-internet
For me, I think that people like Paul sometimes need to learn the hard lessons hard.
What I mean is, do you think that Paul limits his douchebaggery to the customers he dealt with at work? I feel sorry for his wife and kids (if he has kids). I'm sure they deal with the worst of his egomania and narcissism. He's more than likely the type of guy who treats anyone who isn't "in the loop," like shit and enjoys it. I've worked with people like him. I've had to serve people like him back when I worked in customer service.
Those type of selfish, hateful douchebags don't have my pity. While I certainly empathize with his family for having to go through whatever the fallout may be, assholes like Paul get none from me.
Just because you may be in a position of power, and you may have genuinely worked hard to get there, and you are proud of your "connections," doesn't give you a free pass to sneer down at people who are just trying to do their thing and live their lives. Accomplishment is not a ticket to ride for douchebaggery.
I think Paul is learning this lesson the hard way. I approve. I don't approve of actually physically harming him or his family; that's not cool, but I certainly approve of a self-centered egomaniac being taken down a peg or three.
Maybe he'll learn to treat people in all areas of his life better, not just the customers he dealt with at work. If anything, it will be a humbling experience for him. Or at least, I hope it is.
What I mean is, do you think that Paul limits his douchebaggery to the customers he dealt with at work? I feel sorry for his wife and kids (if he has kids). I'm sure they deal with the worst of his egomania and narcissism. He's more than likely the type of guy who treats anyone who isn't "in the loop," like shit and enjoys it. I've worked with people like him. I've had to serve people like him back when I worked in customer service.
Those type of selfish, hateful douchebags don't have my pity. While I certainly empathize with his family for having to go through whatever the fallout may be, assholes like Paul get none from me.
Just because you may be in a position of power, and you may have genuinely worked hard to get there, and you are proud of your "connections," doesn't give you a free pass to sneer down at people who are just trying to do their thing and live their lives. Accomplishment is not a ticket to ride for douchebaggery.
I think Paul is learning this lesson the hard way. I approve. I don't approve of actually physically harming him or his family; that's not cool, but I certainly approve of a self-centered egomaniac being taken down a peg or three.
Maybe he'll learn to treat people in all areas of his life better, not just the customers he dealt with at work. If anything, it will be a humbling experience for him. Or at least, I hope it is.
oh boy.
I don't know, this guy might have a couple of years planned out. He even added Anonymous_UK to his tweet hoping they may want to get in on the fun.
flyinpiranha
Member
What other shit?!? People keep saying "his family" or "personal information" ... Where the fuck is this? I've seen nothing he hasn't made completely public actually be ... you know, publicized.
Is it wrong that people find out about his business connections? His family is BARELY mentioned and if it is it's in passing about how it sucks about his family.
I'm still waiting from pages and pages ago for people to list this shit. Not just heresy, not just a reddit link, not just some person from GAF making assumptions ... but what has actually happened besides this guys professional career going down the drain because of (wait for it) how he treated people while conducting business?
I'll wait.
I don't remember people being sad for Jack Thompsons family when he was disbarred. Funny.
(Edit: You personally - SHAZOOM - may not have said all the things I've mentioned but the people you are quoting and others that have taken that 'side' have)