ChuckeRearmed
Member
My Microsoft stocks are growing for sure.
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Phil Spencer - "We've put a lot of money into the market, over a billion dollars a year supporting third-party games coming into Game Pass"
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Edmund
is waiting for Starfield 7
Congrats. Now you can actually afford games.
Salty Popsicle
Banned
They can continue spending money as long as I get awesome games on Gamepass. Why should any gamer care about how much Microsoft spends? That's their finance division's job, not mine or yours.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Roxkis_ii
Member
What are the other subs that are included in this group of subs? What percent of that $3.9 billion came from gamepass?
It's very telling that they had to group gamepass with other subs, because the money it generatess on it own is so unimpressive.
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Salty Popsicle
Banned
NeoGaf was tearing Microsoft a new one these past few years for pivoting many of their premier IPs like Halo anf Forza into GAAS experiences. Now in the past 12 months, we've learned that Sony is following suit with a 10-year GAAS plan that will include 12 new games all with a GAAS focus. Looks like Sony does look at what the competition does and follow paths...
Negotiator101
Member
Is that a direct quote?
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
It's very specific to the gaming revenue, which includes Game Pass and Live.
They're not including Office in this, if that's what you're conspiring.
Roxkis_ii
Member
It's very specific to the gaming revenue, which includes Game Pass and Live.
They're not including Office in this, if that's what you're conspiring.
Whats included under gaming subscriptions? This graphic doesn't answer my question, but I don't think Microsoft even releases the information to do so.
Again, the fact that they don't show the specific numbers for game pass is very telling. People who are proud of something aren't vauge about how successful it is.
pasterpl
Member
Does MS have any other subscription in gaming/ other than gamepass I mean.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
No. Derek thinks it includes Live as well but even that is now a part of Game Pass since that slide was released.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Yes.Is that a direct quote?
MacReady13
Member
Is Sony really following Microsofts path here though, or more along the lines of other companies that have been doing it years before Microsoft shifted their biggest ip's to that crap?
yurinka
Member
Probably aren't accounting giant server costs either, very likely they are accounted for the Azure division.
Sony was making consoles, game subs of monthly games, game subs with an all you can eat library of hundreds of games, game subs with cloud gaming before MS.
MS is the one who has been following Sony. Because Sony is the market leader and MS the last one in the race. The market leader can't follow the last one. If something, to copy some good idea from time to time, as in this case to include an intermediate sub tier with a download only version of the "all you can it sub".
Sony won't do suicide stuff like to include all their games on PC and their game sub day one. They are way more successful selling consoles and games, and adding some of them on PC or a game sub once they mostly stopped selling on console.
The difference is that Sony won't decrease their investment on non-GaaS first party games: instead they will increase it and non-GaaS continue being the majority of the PS Studios titles under development.
On top of that, their big GaaS are made by people already specialized on GaaS, on most cases new teams already very sucessful on it, or at least with MP. People who made Destiny, Rainbow Six Siege, CoD, previous GaaS GT/MLB etc. In the case of ND, their MP team makes the GaaS while they also have other teams making non-GaaS SP games.
And outside GT and MLB (which already were GaaS), the other GaaS are either new IPs, spinoffs or some niche stuff, like a VR shooter or the sequel of a top down dual analog coop shooter.
It's also worth mentioning that Sony has a long history of GaaS: remember they also had games like PlayStation Home or Little Big Planet, to name just a couple. And also it's worth mentioning that isn't only MS and Sony: all big publishers are betting more on GaaS than before. Even the most conservative and traditional ones like Nintendo.
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kiphalfton
Member
Well yeah, otherwise they wouldn't have a whole lot on gamepass.
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Banjo64
cumsessed
To be honest, that’s what the service should all be about. Keep it small but focussed on promoting quality (like a better version of Apple Arcade).
Keeps operating costs low and they can pass that on to the consumer with the end price.
Instead we’re getting $70b acquisitions, price rises and average AAA games.
StealthGoblin
Banned
Yet only Xbox bleat on about how bad it is, how it hurts them and how Sony make it difficult for Xbox to be Xbox. Xbox literally complained about Sony blocking games coming to gamepass, and then we found out that Xbox has actually blocked fat more games with their gamepass deals.
He speaks from both sides of his mouthm.Thankfully because of the ABK proceedings more people are aware of it.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
The prices rising and cost of AAA games increasing is a byproduct of inflation and all companies always wanting higher profits each reporting. That's gonna happen with or without sub services, but at least services have the positive effect of giving a 'safe-haven' to either smaller developers or splinter groups within bigger studios to make smaller products and not have them crushed under the weight of a Call of Duty: Forbidden Ragnarok release in the holiday period.
Banjo64
cumsessed
Agreed.
Xbox are on the path they are on, and AAA games will continue to be a staple of Game Pass. As you say, their own first party benefit because they can release smaller projects.
When you think of those smaller games that have been a hit that have also been on Game Pass: Grounded, Hollow Knight, Ori, Tinykin, Descenders, A Plague Tale, Streets of Rage - those are the best games I played on Game Pass and I’d rather they were always front and centre (supplemented by their own catalogue of old games like Rare Replay) with Microsoft being committed to a long term affordable end price (like £4.99 a month).
Just personal preference. If I had the time I wouldn’t blink twice @ £12.99 a month, but they could make it borderline mandatory for everyone if it was lower.
StealthGoblin
Banned
XBL Gold included at the time, but those users now count as gamepass users (if they are still subbed)
Clintizzle
Lord of Edge.
No. If Microsoft stop making games, I can 100% guarantee you that someone else will pick up the IP's.
There is literally no scenario where gaming will cease to exist. People need to spend less of their time concerned about profit margins and sales figures and just play some damn games.
And what profitability of a service has to do with price of consoles?
Jesus guys, you are stretching.
But to answer your question. They raised prices so they can earn more money and keep margins intact. Same as any other company on the planet. Inflation is not meant to eat profit margins (God forbid that) so the inflation is passed onto the consumer.
I know it's shock, but that's how capitalism works.
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Elder Scrolls online, WoW etc. Not simply Gamepass and live anymore.It's very specific to the gaming revenue, which includes Game Pass and Live.
They're not including Office in this, if that's what you're conspiring.
"Game Pass is profitable, I swear"
Ok Phil, so show us the numb-
When Sony announced they were no longer selling the PS5 at a loss, I certainly didn’t see you folks demanding to know the exact profit margins.
Ah, well.
the console industry must be struggling, then, since all platform holders have increased console prices.
Not exactly a good faith argument from you, since nobody here has claimed GP had crazy high profit margins.
Why would WoW be included in the $3.9bn ?
You always try very hard with the pedantic gotchas don't you? I simply said that it's more than just live and gamepass now when referring to their sub figures which includes this:
"By 2030, Microsoft expects subscriptions to make nearly $8 billion."
Nothing to do with the 3.9 figure specifically.
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Ar¢tos
Member
You want more stuff like Redfail and Loadingfield?
Whitecrow
Banned
Touché
What ‘gotcha’? The previous post you responded to was about the $3.9bn, and much of the thread is centered around GP’s current profitability.
I’m not sure what part you expect WoW or ESO to play in growth to $8bn, but i doubt anyone is forecasting significant growth in WoW and ESO subscribers anyway.
You think they pay for their first party games with bananas and hugs?
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
John Wick
Member
Financially viable doesn't mean profitable. This wasn't quite the win you thought it was.Meanwhile, at NeoGAF:
jm89
Member
cebri.one
Member
People are smart enough to realize that the cost of GP is not only 3rd party licensing fees right? Do you realize GP revenue has to cover for the first party development cost as well? (which it doesn't).
If people think they are going to have better margins than Netflix or Spotify with the same business model people are deluding themselves. GP will either get more expensive or worse.
If people think they are going to have better margins than Netflix or Spotify with the same business model people are deluding themselves. GP will either get more expensive or worse.
John Wick
Member
Where did he confirm it's profitable? Financially viable doesn't mean that at all. If it was profitable he would have explicitly stated as such.
Phil? The truth teller???
He says all sorts of nonsense. If Xbox was profitable they would clearly show it. They don't say Azure is financially viable do they?
Office is financially viable?
John Wick
Member
Where is that stated?
Why would you put the entire development cost of first party games on GamePass when they’re sold at retail?
Millions of copies of Starfield and Forza Horizon 5 sold across Steam and xbox console, but we need to put all the dev costs on the subscription service?
Imagine comparing the cost of content acquisition and preparation of Netflix and GamePass. Netflix spent close to $17bn on content alone in 2022.
Not to mention claiming a streaming only model is equivalent to a streaming + retail model. Thats not logical at all.
More first party content coming in, plus Activision content from 2024. I don’t think anyone credibly believes that GP is destined to get worse
cireza
Member
In OP. You guys have reading issues ?
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But last time he explicitly stated it was profitable, it still resulted in an 8 page thread here filled with skepticism. People demanded to see the balance sheets, all the cash flows etc.
Now he tried to ELI5 by not only saying it’s financially viable, but confirming it makes money for MS. And you’re still skeptical
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John Wick
Member
It states nothing about profitibilty. Financially viable doesn't mean profitable. If that was the case then why don't MS say Azure is financially viable instead of stating it's profitably??? Clearly your the one having reading issues.
John Wick
Member
Phil says all sorts of shit that suits the company he works for. MS has no problem sharing Azure, office and other divisions profits. Yet Xbox is never shown. Why? When they were leading they used to shout it from the rooftops. What changed?But last time he explicitly stated it was profitable, it still resulted in an 8 page thread here filled with skepticism. People demanded to see the balance sheets, all the cash flows etc.
Now he tried to ELI5 by not only saying it’s financially viable, but confirming it makes money for MS. And you’re still skeptical
Griffon
Member
So he says over a billion dollars for all the third party games. As in, a single billion right?
That is monstrously cheap for the amount of games that were made available. The console industry is worth a fuckton more than a single billion.
I bet a lot of those third parties got swindled hard with shitty deals and "exposure" promises.
This isn't a good look for Xbox.
That is monstrously cheap for the amount of games that were made available. The console industry is worth a fuckton more than a single billion.
I bet a lot of those third parties got swindled hard with shitty deals and "exposure" promises.
This isn't a good look for Xbox.
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ChuckeRearmed
Member
Who died?