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[Angelus Errare]

Here is the plot twist. I am huge hop hop fan. My favourite artists are Nas, Immortal Technique and Old Kanye.

EDIT: I am going to bed now, I assume I will get a couple of replies destroying me, which should be fun to read at my lunch break at work tomorrow.

Is this the new "black friend" counter argument?

I'm a huge hop hop fan as well. My faves are totes Mac Miller and Mackelmore.

 

[KAL2006]

What does being involved in slavery have to do with people not using a racial slur? Why is it so difficult for people to understand that they shouldn't use it if they are not black? What are you losing if you don't use it?


Oh you are a Nas, Immortal Technique and Old Kanye fan? Then by all means shout nigga from the rooftops!

Actually I don't agree that people should say the N word, and I refuse to do it, unless I am on my own quoting lyrics, I think yiou got me wrong, I am simply stating facts why kids these days use the word that is all. Anyway thats it Im going to bed for definite now.

Oh, so you're here just to troll.

Wow, talk about putting words into my mouth, some people really need to chill instead of accusing people as trolls at the first chance you get. I simply gave my opinion and said I will enjoy to read the replies. I sentence you for trolling by accusing someone else a troll lol.

 

[genjiZERO]

The civil rights era was like 50 years ago, buddy.
You are being extremely ignorant, breh. You think people just stopped using it and then started again when NWA started popping or what? WTF. The reappropriation of the n-word started before rap music btw.

That's true, but I don't think it's unfair to say hip-hop culture is the main driving force behind it's continued use in 2014. So I think the question is: if hip-hop culture stopped using it and the black community said it was absolutely unacceptable even for intra-group use how pervasive would the term be?

Maybe because I'm not black, live in a progressive city and almost everyone I know is highly educated, but I only hear the racist variant thrown out maybe a couple times a year, and always by some redneck or racist uncle. Almost every utterance I hear is in a song/movie or by kids on the street using the endearment variant.

 

[Dram]

People would still use the word if every black person stopped saying it today. All you have to do is look at the comment section of a news article dealing with a black person to see that.

 

[TacticalFox88]

This is the one double standard that white people simply loathe at not being "equal". What does that tell you?

 

[Angelus Errare]

That's true, but I don't think it's unfair to say hip-hop culture is the main driving force behind it's continued use in 2014. So I think the question is: if hip-hop culture stopped using it and the black community said it was absolutely unacceptable even for intra-group use how pervasive would the term be?

All those rap listening republicans I tell ya. If Jay-Z stopped saying nigga then they totes wouldn't say nigger or thug as much.

 

[JohnDoe]

You are right. I guess it depends on if you think that it is okay to do it, or not.

Just as a note, some women don't think that it's okay to do that, and it HAS been argued that calling each other bitch, even in a good way, does make men think it is okay to use it against women. I don't want to turn this into a gender topic, but I would like to point out that there is also different viewpoints on whether or not this is 'okay.'

Well, the same debate happens in the black community too. That doesn't really matter thoug, because both sides agree on one thing; men can't just go around saying bitch or calling women bitch like it's nothing.

And yeah, let's not make this a gender topic.

 

[Dram]

The whole debate is just weird. I mean do people get upset because they can't say any racial slurs used against Asian or Jewish people?

 

[Angelus Errare]

Bitch and nigga are the forbidden words...what if you combine them?!!...has science gone too far?!

 

[KingGondo]

Maybe because I'm not black, live in a progressive city and almost everyone I know is highly educated, but I only hear the racist variant thrown out maybe a couple times a year, and always by some redneck or racist uncle. Almost every utterance I hear is in a song/movie or by kids on the street using the endearment variant.

That has a ton to do with it.

You have to be incredibly naive to think that if it wasn't used in hip hop or in black culture that it would start to lose its appeal to those who wish to wield the word as a weapon.

Also, for what it's worth I'm white, I work in a white collar setting in downtown Oklahoma City, and I hear it from time to time. Not in a nice way, either.

 

[DonasaurusRex]

...is Piers Morgan retarded on dope or both?

 

[genjiZERO]

That has a ton to do with it.

You have to be incredibly naive to think that if it wasn't used in hip hop or in black culture that it would start to lose its appeal to those who wish to wield the word as a weapon.

Also, for what it's worth I'm white, I work in a white collar setting in downtown Oklahoma City, and I hear it from time to time. Not in a nice way, either.

So to restate my question, if the N-word was absolutely culturally taboo would it become less pervasive in the lexicon?

I don't know the answer to this. All I know is I almost never hear the term, and when I do it's in the endearment context. I also want to be clear, I'm not saying my experience is generalizable.

But it begs other questions:

As a matter or probability shouldn't the hypothesis by true to some degree?

Would it drive use to hard racists, and would the decreased pervasiveness put social pressure on these individuals to use the word less frequently?

Is there any merit to the argument that racists use the term because of the dual endearment meaning, and without said meaning would they feel less emboldened to use it?

 

[Enzom21]

You are missing the point.

I have an Asian friend that dislikes all black people because he was mugged three times in his life, all by black people. I can say that he is racist while still understanding that why he feels that way. Yes, I do think he's racist. Yes, I do wish he didn't feel that way.

On the culture/context note, my grandma, and many older gen Taiwanese/Asian people, dislike the Japanese because of what happened in the war. It is understandable, but it ends up still being racist (they dislike Japanese people because they are Japanese and it is assumed that "they" somehow being Japanese contributes to the likelihood of a personality willing to do that.)

So, it isn't that I think it's unfounded to feel that all nonblack people must use the n word in a racist/demeaning manner, because I know they used to and some still do now, it doesn't change the fact that to assume ALL people of x color must be like y because of their skin color...is racist.



You are right. I guess it depends on if you think that it is okay to do it, or not.

Just as a note, some women don't think that it's okay to do that, and it HAS been argued that calling each other bitch, even in a good way, does make men think it is okay to use it against women. I don't want to turn this into a gender topic, but I would like to point out that there is also different viewpoints on whether or not this is 'okay.'

No you're missing the point. I never said non-blacks who use it were automatically racist. I said it wasn't a "wrong" that people who aren't black don't get to use it. What do people lose when they don't get to say it?

This is the one double standard that white people simply loathe at not being "equal". What does that tell you?

Not just white people, apparently some Asians think it's "unfair" and "wrong".

So to restate my question, if the N-word was absolutely culturally taboo would it become less pervasive in the lexicon?

I don't know the answer to this. All I know is I almost never hear the term, and when I do it's in the endearment context. I also want to be clear, I'm not saying my experience is generalizable.

But it begs other questions:

As a matter or probability shouldn't the hypothesis by true to some degree?

Would it drive use to hard racists, and would the decreased pervasiveness put social pressure on these individuals to use the word less frequently?

Is there any merit to the argument that racists use the term because of the dual endearment meaning, and without said meaning would they feel less emboldened to use it?

No. Racist use the term because they are racists, not because black people use it as a term of endearment. They won't become less racist if black people stopped using it. That's a ridiculous argument.

 

[IrishNinja]

damn

 

[Angelus Errare]

So to restate my question, if the N-word was absolutely culturally taboo would it become less pervasive in the lexicon?

I don't know the answer to this. All I know is I almost never hear the term, and when I do it's in the endearment context. I also want to be clear, I'm not saying my experience is generalizable.

But it begs other questions:

As a matter or probability shouldn't the hypothesis by true to some degree?

Would it drive use to hard racists, and would the decreased pervasiveness put social pressure on these individuals to use the word less frequently?

Is there any merit to the argument that racists use the term because of the dual endearment meaning, and without said meaning would they feel less emboldened to use it?

No because racists have been using the word before it became a term of endearment...

I have figured it out, you're just messing with everyone. You almost had me you jokester you!

 

[genjiZERO]

No. Racist use the term because they are racists, not because black people use it as a term of endearment. They won't become less racist if black people stopped using it. That's a ridiculous argument.

Way to use an ad hominem.

It's actually a factual argument that could be tested experimentally. The question doesn't ask if they become less racist, it's asks if social pressure prevent racists from acting out in their racism.

No because racists have been using the word before it became a term of endearment...

I have figured it out, you're just messing with everyone. You almost had me you jokester you!

But I would counter that was a time when the term was even more pervasive and more socially acceptable even if still no less racist.

And look, I'm asking what I think are fair sociological questions. If this is going to be about being using emotion over inquiry I'll bow out now.

 

[theignoramus]

That fool wrote that article knowing full well the backlash would allow him to position himself as a martyr. He's a cynical turd looking to catapult himself back into relevancy. Fuck him.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

If this thread lasts, he may have some company lol

Damn it, I wanted to be just kidding

 

[Angelus Errare]

Way to use an ad hominem.

It's actually a factual argument that could be tested experimentally. The question doesn't ask if they become less racist, it's asks if social pressure prevent racists from acting out in their racism.

lol.

If current societal pressure isn't stopping racists from using the N word. What makes you think black people not using it would stop racists?

"Oh man Jim Bob, the niggers no longer use the word nigga...I guess we should stop calling them that!"
"I reckon you're right Bubba Joe. Let's call them hardworking African Americans!"

If only black people stopped doing anything the world would move on from racism. When you think about black people existing is the reason why racism is still around!

 

[IrishNinja]

lol.

If current societal pressure isn't stopping racists from using the N word. What makes you think black people not using it would stop racists?

years from now (after the return of dinosaurs) future societies will look back & point to the moment google/youtube forced comments to point to your real name - and racial shit still got worse - as early signs of the end

 

[Angelus Errare]

years from now (after the return of dinosaurs) future societies will look back & point to the moment google/youtube forced comments to point to your real name - and racial shit still got worse - as early signs of the end

Well to be fair, it only got worse because rappers use it in their rap cars.

 

[billy beane]

I can't wait for 100 years to pass and it be ok for everyone to say nigga because nobody will remember it was a racist word.

 

[crazy monkey]

i had mix of brown and black friends who used this words a lot. A lot in high school.

 

[Angelus Errare]

I always find it hilarious af that people can seriously say "rap music made me do it" but will be in school shooting threads like "music and videogames don't make people do these things!"

 

[Chie Satonaka]

That fool wrote that article knowing full well the backlash would allow him to position himself as a martyr. He's a cynical turd looking to catapult himself back into relevancy. Fuck him.

Correct.

He knew exactly what he was doing.

 

[uncredited male]

Growing up I heard the word used rarely outside of the usual racist shit.

I returned to school recently in my life and I am amazed at the different types of people who are saying it now.

Maybe the old school racists will pick a new slur to hang their hate on. Or it will just become a contextual nightmare.

 

[Trey]

"Nigga" has been appropriated by all kinds of ethnicities. Young people of all walks of life are saying it because it's a "cool" word to use. It gives you that street credibility. It's really beyond just blacks at this point. You can tell how a person means the word when they use it, and just how out-of-depth they are when they let it fly, given the surrounding context.

 

[IrishNinja]

I always find it hilarious af that people can seriously say "rap music made me do it" but will be in school shooting threads like "music and videogames don't make people do these things!"

context is important - some games can make you do awful things

for example, GTA: SA, 50 Cent: Blood on the Sand, Afro Samurai, Walking Dead, etc

also of the 14 people who played Beyond Good & Evil, 3 are now in jail

 

[Angelus Errare]

context is important - some games can make you do awful things

for example, GTA: SA, 50 Cent: Blood on the Sand, Afro Samurai, Walking Dead, etc

also of the 14 people who played Beyond Good & Evil, 3 are now in jail

Bolded is incorrect, Clementine isn't black, and I never saw Lee as a black guy. I don't see color.

 

[uncredited male]

also of the 14 people who played Beyond Good & Evil, 3 are now in jail

***quietly adds IrishNinja to the list***

 

[MoodyFog]

That song makes sense now

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzeZhCt5PVA

 

[Enzom21]

Way to use an ad hominem.

It's actually a factual argument that could be tested experimentally. The question doesn't ask if they become less racist, it's asks if social pressure prevent racists from acting out in their racism.



But I would counter that was a time when the term was even more pervasive and more socially acceptable even if still no less racist.

And look, I'm asking what I think are fair sociological questions. If this is going to be about being using emotion over inquiry I'll bow out now.

No it's a ridiculous statement that partially blames black people for the racism they experience.

I can't wait for 100 years to pass and it be ok for everyone to say nigga because nobody will remember it was a racist word.

We'll have true equality once those poor non-blacks get to say nigga free of consequence!

 

[J10]

I'm not even mad at the argument that black people are being exclusionary about the n-word and that being exclusionary is wrong in this case.

Right now I'm just like, so what? Yeah, we're excluding you all. So the fuck what? Fuck are you gonna do about it? Not hire us for jobs we're qualified to do? Follow us around a store and assume we're stealing? Ask where our daddies are? Keep us from voting? Have a cop come shoot us? What are you going to do in retaliation for us not letting you call us niggas? You're gonna wag your finger at us and be like ah ah ah, see now you're no better than we used to be to you, even though you still don't have any real power?

OK, fine. I'm kinda racist because I don't let white people say nigga in my presence. I derive joy from being able to deny a not-black person the right to call me nigga and I'm terrible for it. I'm actually perfectly fine with being that.

 

[terrene]

I liked what Charlamagne had to say about it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyD3pomSxko

Of course there's nothing wrong with people in a group using whatever word they want among themselves, but there's a price if you choose a word that other people use to insult you. It's as simple as that.

 

[KingGondo]

damn

I have recently discovered Black Twitter (including Desus) and wow is it amazing.

 

[J10]

I liked what Charlamagne had to say about it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyD3pomSxko

Of course there's nothing wrong with people in a group using whatever word they want among themselves, but there's a price if you choose a word that other people use to insult you. It's as simple as that.

He's wrong on multiple levels.

 

[APZonerunner]

In Britain many of us call him Piers Moron for a reason, for the record.

 

[Vandova]

I don't like any variation of the word.

.....still can't say I agree with piers though.

 

[_Ryo_]

Relevant: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVN_0qvuhhw&list=RDKVN_0qvuhhw&index=1

 

[terrene]

He's wrong on multiple levels.

I mean, cool, but elaborate!

I totally get your previous post about this word, but if the word still has power to you and other people as an insult, do you really think that power is completely gone when you use it in "safe contexts?" You say you derive joy from denying other people the use of the word, that's already telling at how toxic even having the energy of that word in your life is. At some level, as Charlemagne says, I feel like you have to "teach people how to treat you." It's not morally wrong or anything like that to say it, and I have no desire to say that word to anyone ever, nor would I ever bitch about the supposed "double standard." I'm just saying there's a price for having that negative energy in your life, and "reclaimed" or no, you are not in control of what that price is.

 

[Slayven]

I mean, cool, but elaborate!

I totally get your previous post about this word, but if the word still has power to you and other people as an insult, do you really think that power is completely gone when you use it in "safe contexts?" You say you derive joy from denying other people the use of the word, that's already telling at how toxic even having the energy of that word in your life is. At some level, as Charlemagne says, I feel like you have to "teach people how to treat you." It's not morally wrong or anything like that to say it, and I have no desire to say that word to anyone ever, nor would I ever bitch about the supposed "double standard." I'm just saying there's a price for having that negative energy in your life, and "reclaimed" or no, you are not in control of what that price is.

So black people bring racism on themselves through the power of one word?

 

[theignoramus]

I liked what Charlamagne had to say about it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyD3pomSxko

Of course there's nothing wrong with people in a group using whatever word they want among themselves, but there's a price if you choose a word that other people use to insult you. It's as simple as that.

Anyone with hostile feelings towards a particular group or race will always find a way to express their hatred. If blacks stopped using the word, youth from other races maybe wouldnt use it as much in a colloquial manner, but its usage by prejudiced people in a hateful and insulting context would continue unabated.
Tthe attempt to blame blacks for the word being thrown around in a hateful context (almost always by non-blacks) is fucking lunacy to me. As if a rap lyric is responsible for some dude leaning out of his pickup truck yelling "nigger" at me as he drives by.
Get the fuck out of here.

 

[Enzom21]

So black people bring racism on themselves through the power of one word?

That seems to be the current argument going around.

 

[captainpat]

 

[Slayven]

That seems to be the current argument going around.

Insanity and lacks any sympathy or empathy.

Pretty much, that is what it boils down to.

 

[Slayven]

It is the same line of thought that people us when a black guy gets killed "Oh he had weed in his system, totally deserved to die", "Look at how aggressive he looks in this photo, totally deserve to die". and " Suspended from school, totally deserve to die".

 

[J10]

I mean, cool, but elaborate!

I totally get your previous post about this word, but if the word still has power to you and other people as an insult, do you really think that power is completely gone when you use it in "safe contexts?" You say you derive joy from denying other people the use of the word, that's already telling at how toxic even having the energy of that word in your life is. At some level, as Charlemagne says, I feel like you have to "teach people how to treat you." It's not morally wrong or anything like that to say it, and I have no desire to say that word to anyone ever, nor would I ever bitch about the supposed "double standard." I'm just saying there's a price for having that negative energy in your life, and "reclaimed" or no, you are not in control of what that price is.

We've been elaborating on it for seven pages.

Barack Obama
Degrees from Columbia and Harvard
Head of the Harvard Law Review
Well spoken
Well dressed
State Senator
Twice elected US President
Nigger

It doesn't matter what we do, how we talk, how we act, how much we achieve. There is no "teaching" some people about us. We are niggers whether we call ourselves that or not. Charlemagne is a moron.

 

[Frog-fu]

I don't entirely agree or disagree, and that pains me because I generally cannot stand Piers Morgan.

 

[terrene]

So black people bring racism on themselves through the power of one word?

No. Cool troll though.

I mean in a way I am saying, it's better to reject the word and say, "we were never n***s in the first place," than to subconsciously confirm to others that you deserve to be called that, but I'm not saying that black people "bring racism on themselves," as if stopping would end racism, or racism is black people's fault.

I'm also saying playing with such toxic negative energy when referring to yourself and people who share your attributes probably has another subconscious effect. It's a humbling, dimunitive word, at best. People who feel bonded over all being called that, it's like the ghost of that negativity is right outside the walls of their safe space. I have trouble believing there's absolutely no spillover. And that makes me empathize with people who use it, and makes me have trouble viewing that as a victorious "reclamation" when the wrong person saying it is so harmful.

At a psychological level, there are interesting things in play when deciding to use the most demeaning word I can even think of in reference to one's self or others they care about.

 

[theignoramus]

Whole discussion reminds me of the other condescending debate from the early 2000s about baggy clothes and saggy pants. Let me tell you, when I left that shit behind and started dressing like an adult, my ass still got suspicious looks from store clerks. Fact is, racist fucks will despise you on sight regardless of how you talk or dress. Youl will never cease to be a "nigger" to a certain subset of people, it doesnt matter how fucking well to do you are.