Support NeoGAF

[Danjin44]

A lot of people feel that way and nothing wrong with it

Especially the fact next Nintendo system is on Horizon which will be new system with new games.

With Pro is mostly going get same games I can already get on my launch PS5 and just for upgrade costing close to $1000 in Canada it just too much.

If people have money to burn then go for it.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Especially the fact next Nintendo system is on Horizon which will be new system with new games.

With Pro is mostly going get same games I can already get on my launch PS5 and just for upgrade costing close to $1000 in Canada it just too much.

If people have money to burn then go for it.

Plus I know some people waiting for the 5000 series NVidia cards to upgrade their 2000 and 3000 series PCs

I don't blame anyone skipping this pro

 

[Zathalus]

Digital foundry can say what they like when they don't have access to information such as CPU/GPU utilisation on consoles (they can only guess).

Explain to me how it is that the increase in performance matches up almost perfectly with the results a 3700X CPU gets (which is the max it will get by the way, because here we are actually looking at a CPU bottleneck and how it scales across various CPU's) with a GPU superior to the base PS5? :

The original claim from DF was GPU limited in open outdoor areas and CPU limited in the main city area.

Based on the Pro footage so far showing the locked 60fps in the wilds and the drops to the low 50s on the edges of the city hub that appears to still be the case. Just judging on how the city area can hit frame times, a run through the city will still see a drop to the 40s with the Pro.

 

[Gaiff]

Digital foundry can say what they like when they don't have access to information such as CPU/GPU utilisation on consoles (they can only guess).

Explain to me how it is that the increase in performance matches up almost perfectly with the results a 3700X CPU gets (which is the max it will get by the way, because here we are actually looking at a CPU bottleneck and how it scales across various CPU's) with a GPU superior to the base PS5? :

Old data. There have been significant improvements to the CPU performance since then.

 

[Bojji]

Digital foundry can say what they like when they don't have access to information such as CPU/GPU utilisation on consoles (they can only guess).

Explain to me how it is that the increase in performance matches up almost perfectly with the results a 3700X CPU gets (which is the max it will get by the way, because here we are actually looking at a CPU bottleneck and how it scales across various CPU's) with a GPU superior to the base PS5? :

This is without RT most likely, this makes big difference in CPU performance. This is performance at launch, only difference between those systems is CPU:

 

[SweetTooth]

I noticed that the Pro has the Vents from the original PS5 that the slim was missing

All that power man, the beast needs to breath a little

 

[StereoVsn]

Plus I know some people waiting for the 5000 series NVidia cards to upgrade their 2000 and 3000 series PCs

I don't blame anyone skipping this pro

Yep, waiting to see what Nvidia has to upgrade my 3080Ti and will probably grab Switch 2 as well, depending on games, cross gen, hardware, etc.

And considering Sony just completely killed my hype for Ghost 2, I am not in any hurry.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

Xbox journalist is mad as fuck

What’s Destin’s history in this area?

Is he usually biased?

 

[R6Rider]

Really? And its the same account as your Playstation?
I just deleted mine and redone it so I can split the payments.... at least that's how I set it up.
That's weird.

Same for me. Mine said no default Payment (and also no way to add one on the Direct page).

 

[MisterXDTV]

Nice, let's make this another useless PC thread

 

[SweetTooth]

Nice, let's make this another useless PC thread

Can someone send me whatever Nvidia 5000 series thread so I can spam it with " Yeah, no need to spend $2000, you can get similar performance on $700 Pro" like posters above

 

[DenchDeckard]

Looks like its 10 AM local times but we aren't sure what time that means for us USA folk

Thanks, man.

I'm not gonna bother doing an insane alarm time. I'll just get up and try get one when I'm at work.

 

[SweetTooth]

Thanks, man.

I'm not gonna bother doing an insane alarm time. I'll just get up and try get one when I'm at work.

Goddamn luck man, this isn't Xbox where you can snatch it anytime

 

[sachos]

Haven't watched the DF video yet but i watched the IGN one with Oliver.
Genuine question here, it seems like im having the opposite reaction to his when it comes to IQ in TLoU2 and HFW.
He says the IQ in TLoU2 is sharper than fidelity but with temporal instability (im having a hard time seeing it there) but then says the best upgrade in IQ is HFW that isnt even using PSSR (disappointing) but i can clearly see the new Pro mode is softer than the original Fidelity mode plus it has a lost of mixing/ghosting pixels in that moving grass no? Isnt that part of temporal instability? I dont get it.

 

[Zacfoldor]

So nonsense then.

Yep, but gotta be careful because I could probably list off a bunch of conspiracy theories people believe on here and one of us would have fallen for at least one of them. Let people believe their own craziness until it starts hurting others is the best way to handle it.

At first I was all gung ho about the "Sony Tax, MS Tax, Nintendo Tax" metacritic conspiracy theory stuff(my main talking point is that reviewers aren't clever enough to keep it a secret this long) but then I just gave up because ain't nobody changing their mind about shit they learned thru confirmation bias.

DF really shat on Pro when it was announced but then I watched their actual recap video and it sold me on the pro more than the cnet article or anything else. Seems DF are humans too and can make mistakes, but them being mustache twirling sony haters just ain't the whole truth here.

 

[Topher]

Same for me. Mine said no default Payment (and also no way to add one on the Direct page).

PS Direct is really a shitty site.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

I told people the narrative on this would change quickly...

 

[larrybrady]

native 4k vs PSSR

Going from fidelity to pro looked like a bigger jump than going from performance to fidelity in terms or crispness and clarity ..that's really good chit

 

[Bojji]

Going from fidelity to pro looked like a bigger jump than going from performance to fidelity in terms or crispness and clarity ..that's really good chit

It's much less stable in motion.

 

[adamsapple]

I told people the narrative on this would change quickly...

You also told people that there is a coordinated targeted campaign against the PS5 Pro.

You say a lot of things.

 

[Audiophile]

not gonna lie, I kinda love the look now. I would also love if they did a collab with adidas. lol

Or Terrance & Phillip

 

[Audiophile]

I wonder if PSSR exists as a fluid component of the PS5, is updated and games reference it; or if the latest version is baked into the game and has to be updated manually by devs.

It'd be pretty cool if it took the former approach and games just got better over time without any additional work or patching required, just by way of the PSSR library on the console being updated.

Akin to switching out the .dll in DLSS but automated.

If the hooks and the inputs are just there; then it could mean not just steady improvements on PS5 Pro but that continuing indefinitely on PS6 etc.

Probably getting my hopes up, as I do.

 

[GHG]

The original claim from DF was GPU limited in open outdoor areas and CPU limited in the main city area.

Based on the Pro footage so far showing the locked 60fps in the wilds and the drops to the low 50s on the edges of the city hub that appears to still be the case. Just judging on how the city area can hit frame times, a run through the city will still see a drop to the 40s with the Pro.

Old data. There have been significant improvements to the CPU performance since then.

This is without RT most likely, this makes big difference in CPU performance. This is performance at launch, only difference between those systems is CPU:

Here are DF's latest test results:

The good news here is that the performance in Dragon's Dogma 2 seems to have been improved, with the PS5 Pro's frame-rates in the 50s in city areas that are in the 30s to low 40s on base PS5. That means that the PS5 Pro is likely to be within the console's VRR window even at 60Hz, which should reduce judder and make for a smoother-feeling experience.

PS5 Pro hands-on: testing 11 upgraded games, PSSR upscaling and the new hardware

Digital Foundry's hands-on preview of the PS5 Pro, with Oliver Mackenzie testing 11 PS5 Pro titles, seeing the new hardware in the flesh and evaluating PSSR.

www.eurogamer.net

That's a lot more than a 10% difference in the city areas. So if it isn't coming from the CPU, where is that extra performance coming from?

 

[Zathalus]

Here are DF's latest test results:

PS5 Pro hands-on: testing 11 upgraded games, PSSR upscaling and the new hardware

Digital Foundry's hands-on preview of the PS5 Pro, with Oliver Mackenzie testing 11 PS5 Pro titles, seeing the new hardware in the flesh and evaluating PSSR.

www.eurogamer.net

That's a lot more than a 10% difference in the city areas. So if it isn't coming from the CPU, where is that extra performance coming from?

That low 50s result is on the outer edge of the main city as shown in the video, as they speculated it could drop a bit more if it included them actually going through the middle of the city, where performance is at its worst. The Pro CPU can also clock 10% higher, so some of the boost can come from that as well.

 

[Bojji]

That's a lot more than a 10% difference in the city areas. So if it isn't coming from the CPU, where is that extra performance coming from?

That's what I was talking about in my first post, it has to be from game optimization. They already improved some things in patches and looks like they have more efficient code in current PS5 Pro build, I hope all version will be improved.

At launch this game was 100% CPU limited on consoles and on PC in towns.

 

[GHG]

That low 50s result is on the outer edge of the main city as shown in the video, as they speculated it could drop a bit more if it included them actually going through the middle of the city, where performance is at its worst. The Pro CPU can also clock 10% higher, so some of the boost can come from that as well.

I already mentioned the 10%.

That's what I was talking about in my first post, it has to be from game optimization. They already improved some things in patches and looks like they have more efficient code in current PS5 Pro build, I hope all version will be improved.

At launch this game was 100% CPU limited on consoles and on PC in towns.

If it were optimisation then the base PS5 will also get the same improvements within a 10% margin of the Pro, that hasn't proven to be the case thus far.

More than happy to revisit this with you lads when the final results come in, but so far it appears the claims that the CPU would prevent the pro having improved framerates over the base PS5 are horribly misinformed.

 

[reinking]

PS Direct is really a shitty site.

It really is. I had to add my default payment again a few weeks ago. I expect it to crap out when I need it for the Pro preorder.

 

[larrybrady]

It's much less stable in motion.

Hhhmmm,I don't know..I watched the d.f video,and thought in motion it looked pretty damn good... Didn't the big guy say it does break up in spots in motion,but you only notice that when it's zoomed in 400%,and when you're playing it in it's normal distance,you don't even notice it...maybe im thinking of something else .....but,if that's what unstable looks like,i want more unstable then

 

[omegasc]

It's much less stable in motion.

Oliver does point out that it may be the same case as Ratchet, where they applied sharpness filter but it's not necessary anymore. That made the image quality more stable for Ratchet.

 

[Bojji]

I already mentioned the 10%.



If it were optimisation then the base PS5 will also get the same improvements within a 10% margin of the Pro, that hasn't proven to be the case thus far.

More than happy to revisit this with you lads when the final results come in, but so far it appears the claims that the CPU would prevent the pro having improved framerates over the base PS5 are horribly misinformed.

Currently PS5 Pro build is separate from main one and in development so those optimizations aren't available anywhere else.

Pro won't upgrade CPU limited games, it's physically impossible. But vast majority of games are GPU limited.

Hhhmmm,I don't know..I watched the d.f video,and thought in motion it looked pretty damn good... Didn't the big guy say it does break up in spots in motion,but you only notice that when it's zoomed in 400%,and when you're playing it in it's normal distance,you don't even notice it...maybe im thinking of something else .....but,if that's what unstable looks like,i want more unstable then

It's only less stable compared to 4k native. Vs. performance mode it's better in all aspects.

Oliver does point out that it may be the same case as Ratchet, where they applied sharpness filter but it's not necessary anymore. That made the image quality more stable for Ratchet.

Yeah they use too much sharpening, TAA in ND games is super soft so even native 4k looks soft compared to PSSR with sharpening filter.

 

[Matsuchezz]

What’s Destin’s history in this area?

Is he usually biased?

he is a rabid Xbox shill. He grew up with Xbox so it's understandable that he likes shitty games and consoles.

 

[awwr999999]

Maybe/hopefully we’ll see that in the future. No reason why they couldn’t for that game.

Eventually he's going to be able to have 2 or even 3 kids tagging along with minimal slowdown at boss fights.

 

[MisterXDTV]

More than happy to revisit this with you lads when the final results come in, but so far it appears the claims that the CPU would prevent the pro having improved framerates over the base PS5 are horribly misinformed.

Who would have guessed?

 

[DavidGzz]

TL;DR: a $700 pro console performs better than a $500 non-pro console.

It's 700 vs 400. Comparing the non disk drive PS5 is more accurate.

 

[King Dazzar]

PS Direct is really a shitty site.

Just imagine how pleasing to use it'll be tomorrow when its servers are having a meltdown.

 

[Zathalus]

I already mentioned the 10%.



If it were optimisation then the base PS5 will also get the same improvements within a 10% margin of the Pro, that hasn't proven to be the case thus far.

More than happy to revisit this with you lads when the final results come in, but so far it appears the claims that the CPU would prevent the pro having improved framerates over the base PS5 are horribly misinformed.

Just looking at the latest patch results tested by DF and the section where the two runs are the closest (the section close to the western entrance) the 3600 equipped PC is hitting 47fps and the Pro drops to 54fps. The Pro run is still a bit further out from the city square compared to the PC run where most of the performance drops come from. On the 3600 PC just running into the city square drops FPS all the way from that 47 peak into the upper 30s. That certainly seems to imply we would probably see the Pro drop to the lower 40s in that same area.

We would have to have a regular PS5 vs Pro vs in that area when the games come out to really confirm that. But it seems most of the performance improvements from the city hub stem from the patch improvements and 10% better CPU. The patches are responsible for a 30%-60% improvement on the 3600 after all.

 

[lh032]

That's a lot more than a 10% difference in the city areas. So if it isn't coming from the CPU, where is that extra performance coming from?

cerny sauce.

 

[Crispy Gamer]

Sony Breaks Down the PS5 Pro's Tech and Reveals That It Was in the Works Before the PS5 Even Released - IGN

We sit down with PlayStation Senior Principal Product Manager Toshi Aoki to talk about the PS5 Pro's tech and more.

www.ign.com

In the meantime, the PS5 Pro generally favors improvements to the GPU over the CPU. Aoki says that the PS5 Pro contains "dedicated custom hardware" co-developed with AMD that is in the GPU block, and that games will be patched to use that part of the block.

 

[CLW]

I wonder if they are trying to outsmart scalper bots

Hide the site from scalpers and legit customers so they can hog all the limited editions THEMSELVES. Sony playing 5D chess

 

[Hawking Radiation]

Never ever make this mistake! Even Richard is alluding that PS5Pro is bigger/ better upgrade than PS4Pro.

Even Oliver is saying, you won't get similar upgrades even on PC for the same cost!

Cerny has converted those dweebs

I would like to see that masterclass of APU!

 

[akira__]

Here are DF's latest test results:

PS5 Pro hands-on: testing 11 upgraded games, PSSR upscaling and the new hardware

Digital Foundry's hands-on preview of the PS5 Pro, with Oliver Mackenzie testing 11 PS5 Pro titles, seeing the new hardware in the flesh and evaluating PSSR.

www.eurogamer.net

That's a lot more than a 10% difference in the city areas. So if it isn't coming from the CPU, where is that extra performance coming from?

That is the real danger of DF narratives. It creates confusion, doubt and favouritism and in the end never holds up in reality.

For some reason they seem to almost always predict the future incorrectly.

Throughout the year, they kept going on and on about that the ps5 pro was limited because of the cpu, and cpu bottleneck games.

First game that they used as example that is tested, destroys that narrative.

This is another huge L for them.

 

[SweetTooth]

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Especially the fact next Nintendo system is on Horizon which will be new system with new games.

With Pro is mostly going get same games I can already get on my launch PS5 and just for upgrade costing close to $1000 in Canada it just too much.

If people have money to burn then go for it.

How do we know it won’t just be cross gen games? Could be looking at a similar situation

 

[Mibu no ookami]

You also told people that there is a coordinated targeted campaign against the PS5 Pro.

You say a lot of things.

You know you're making things up when you have to put words in someone's mouth.

I said it was a campaign and you've added coordinated.

There was absolutely a campaign against the PS5 pushing a narrative that it was not worth the upgrade despite the specs suggesting that it was.

The reason you distort what I actually said (not only because it is true) is that your hope is to discredit what I said.

People jumping into a narrative doesn't require coordination or planning. It only requires motive, intent, and execution.

In under two weeks we've gone from people claiming the PS5 Pro isn't worth it to people saying it is worth and that it's a much better value proposition than a PC at the same price. And guess what the narrative will CONTINUE to change when this thing sells out on pre-order day tomorrow.

You're right, I do say a lot of things, and I'm proven right on the things I say, including being the only one to my knowledge to correctly predict the price of the PS5 Pro and the configuration.

 

[Danjin44]

How do we know it won’t just be cross gen games? Could be looking at a similar situation

For one I’m 100% sure my favourite devs like Monolith Soft will make game exclusive to new Nintendo system like they did with Xenoblade 2.

 

[Topher]

So we still don't have a firm time for this in the US?

 

[Vick]

GT7 has an 8K mode at 60fps!! Lord , I like how Richard face almost exploded when he heard that lol .

DF seems impressed by the results, seems really nice improvement over base PS5

Edit: even F1 game is doing 8K at 60! Holy sh*t

8K even, hahaha.

8K? Maybe on PS6 Pro dude...

They are fucking delusional hoping for 8k on 45% more powerful console when many games are barely better than 720p on base machine, lol.

No games will run at 8k. At least nothing more demanding then the touryst or tetris for sure.

8k Pikachu with DLSS.

8K games on PS5 Pro?... LOL.

Don't expect 8k in any games other than some simple indie titles.

At 8K in modern games? Good luck with that. You can try oldass games at 8K though. Nothing recent.

But upscaled from a much lower base resolution, likely 1440p or so, using PSSR. So not really even 4K, never mind 8K.

I want to see what they can do at 8K and 5fps...
(joking)

 

[Synastry]

For one I’m 100% sure my favourite devs like Monolith Soft will make game exclusive to new Nintendo system like they did with Xenoblade 2.

I seriously doubt Nintendo is gonna tell the over 140M users that bought the switch to F off.

Cross gen games will be a thing on the switch 2 as well.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

The PlayStation Quintuple is a beast

 

[Danjin44]

I seriously doubt Nintendo is gonna tell the over 140M user that bought the switch to F.

Cross gen games will be a thing on the switch 2 as well.

I’m not saying it won’t but I’m pretty sure Monolith Soft will make games exclusive to new system like original Xenoblade on Wii, Xenoblade X on WiiU and Xenoblade 2&3 on Switch.

Monolith Soft games I can’t effort to miss out, while with PS5 Pro won’t have any exclusives because is simplify upgrade of existing system so I won’t missing out much if I don’t get that system.