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PlayStation trying to grow market by expanding to PC but console remains core market (PS Co-CEO)

It's nice that you think this, but the truth is the similarities are all right there. The only difference is timing and, in practice, as time goes on, a 1-2 year stagger (probably shorter if not Day 1) between console & PC versions will feel like nothing to a lot of people since there are so many games to play in the meantime. Not to mention evergreen GAAS titles that will also take up their time, and those games are all on console & PC Day 1if we're talking about PlayStation & Xbox.

So what I'm getting at is, increasingly this stagger window of SIE's is going to feel like theatrics for more and more people, who have less and less reason to play those games Day 1 since they might have yet many other games they're playing or look forward to playing. If buying habits begin to take shape around that, at that point SIE are just hurting their goal of maximized profits by doing the staggers in the first place. But that would only happen because they've engineered conditions to influence buying habits negatively impacting their own console in the first place...

....which is exactly what Microsoft ended up doing. So sadly, I'm gonna have to say that very soon, that 18-24 month stagger window (which given remarks like these from Hideaki, suggests that will shorten) will "feel" like a 3-6 month stagger at most for yet more people, given all the other options they have to play and how much of a shared library console & PC already have these days (especially for Day 1 releases) compared to even a decade ago. If SIE are counting on that stagger to prevent an onset of problems similar to (but not exactly like) what Microsoft saw with Xbox, quite frankly...they're completely delusional.



Well if that person has to also buy PS+ and some games to get any usage out of that console, and they may not even play all the newest AAA bangers Day 1 as-is (maybe they prefer indies for example), or they don't need fidelity quite like at PlayStation level to feel it's "good enough"...yes, the likelihood increases for those people to buy or build a PC, or get a laptop for gaming.

If we're also talking people who already use a PC for school or work and would prefer consolidating their time to a singular device anyhow, then that likelihood increases even more so. What SIE need to ask themselves is: how many high-ARPU hardcore & core enthusiasts are likely to make the switch to PC in light of their current or potential future accelerated PC strategy?

TBH, they don't have the answer to this yet, we saw that when Herman was answering the Goldman Sachs investor earlier this year. So they have to infer it from Microsoft's moves with Xbox, and I 100% doubt Microsoft are giving SIE or anybody else that type of data (in part because they're ashamed of it). Any high-ARPU hardcore/core enthusiast who doesn't play all of SIE's 1P games Day 1 is immediately much more likely to make such a switch, if they also dabble some in PC. SIE getting less of the big 3P exclusives like FF going forward just further compounds on that.



Microsoft started putting their games Day 1 on Steam at the same time they were launching Series X & S. The correlation here is almost too obvious, only obfuscated some by external factors that artificially boosted Xbox demand for a short while (pandemic lockdowns, chip shortages, PS5 & PS4 shortages coupled with plenty of Series S supply). If you take those away, the collapse in Xbox sales we started to see in late 2022 would have started likely a year earlier, meaning they'd be even lower in LTD than the ~ 27 million they're currently at.

Only things that may've staved off the collapse partially would've been the Zenimax acquisition but that'd be to retain hardcore & core Xbox enthusiasts in the hardware ecosystem longer. Would not have manifested in sales boosts outside of that without games and, well, PS5 had Deathloop & Ghostwire as timed exclusives so there 'ya go. But I also have to keep saying: yes lack of any big super-popular mainstream AAA exclusive and the Game Pass push also contributed to Xbox's console collapse.

That said, no one should pretend the Day 1 push on Steam wasn't a factor. And I specifically mean Steam here; MS were doing Day 1 partially on Windows Store but that market place was a dead zone for PC gaming, plus MS still retained full control of the storefront so even if a decay would've began console-side, they'd have full lateral conversion of revenue and profits to their own Windows Store instead, with minimal loss to outside ecosystems.



You are convincing yourself that most people on console "need" hardware comparable to a PS5 or PS5 Pro in order to get "good enough" gaming performance for their time. This isn't true. Many games on PS5 don't even fully leverage the hardware, meaning to run those specific games, you could get away with a PC that's at PS5 level or even lower spec-wise (within reason) and still run those games at peak or at least good-enough settings.

The truth is, yes consoles haven't been the outright most powerful option for gaming in any generation. You're right on that. But consoles have always sold on reasons other than just performance or providing a "boutique experience". They also sold because of their games, and in almost all past generations, there was either a strong distinction in library offerings or ease-of-access that helped create value for consoles beyond just being the "best performance for the dollar".

-Console vs. Arcade: Even if for many early consoles the home versions of arcade games were technically inferior, there were far more copies of the home cart made vs. coin-up machines for that same game. You could rent the games and as a novice, save more money playing them at home then trying to beat them at an arcade. Home consoles were also available in much higher quantities and in more locations than coin-op machines.​
-Console vs. PC/microcomputers: Up until the 7th gen, the vast majority of software library between home consoles and PCs were very distinct. Even certain genres were very specific between the platforms. If you wanted to play point-and-clicks, 4X, CRPGs/WRPGs, flight sims or simulator games (or the "real" FPS games), you went PC. If you wanted arcade racers, racing simulators, JRPGs, platformers, survival-horror, 3D action-adventures etc., you went console. Very rarely did you see consistent presence of these set genres (and even many established IP) across the two platforms for a period of decades until around the 360 era.​
Also worth mentioning is that even up to the middle of the PS3/360 era, PC gaming was a lot more complicated for the average user to get into for AAA releases and at stable/acceptable performance levels. The further back in generations you go, the more true this holds. Most kids & teens on PC today would have never bothered back in the late '80s or '90s where you had to manually set up DOS settings in the BIOS to configure resources so your game could run, or map memory extenders, or manually configure driver settings. Hell in some cases even as late as into the late '90s if you didn't have the right GPU, you simply weren't going to run a game like Quake outside of software rendering mode.​
Combine that with the prices needed to get even "basic" performance out of a game on PC, versus what mainstream consoles were selling for at the time, and all of those factors meant there was very little audience crossover or market crossover between console & PC gaming. But during the latter parts of 7th gen, combined with the growing rise of Steam, and the lowering prices for "good enough" PC gaming hardware & memory, and these factors gradually diminished.​
Nowadays, almost all of those market differentiations are absent, with barrier to entry for PC gaming (relative to back in the '80s, '90s or even most of the '00s) practically on par with console gaming. When we hear about stuff like shader compilation stutters or crap like that, it's really from the 1% elite of PC hardcore gamers who demand that everything MUST run perfectly and at the best possible settings. The vast majority on PC don't care for or notice that stuff, except in the rare cases of a game so poorly compiled they show up no matter your settings.​
In fact, IMO PC now has a big advantage over consoles due in part to the decades of x86/x86-64 BC. There are a lot of games on PC now, both old and new, that you simply can't play on a PS5 or Xbox (or Switch, but the focus of this console-wise is solely on Sony & Microsoft). Oh how crazy things have flipped in that regard...​



And there's a right and wrong way to do all of these things. Sony/SIE could've gone about their PC strategy much better. They could've iterated on VR more effectively & efficiently. They could've already been back in handheld and in a way more preferable than the Portal. They should've been pushing in mobile even before their push into PC.

We can agree that SIE having presence in these market segments is a good thing, while still acknowledging they went at a lot of these areas in frankly amateur ways that have caused more problems than necessary.

This is a myth. What has Microsoft biggest hit been on PC since they started putting games on PC? They collapsed on console because of a lack of AAA big hitters during the holidays whereas Sony consistently put out games that won the holidays. They're outsold during the holidays and that bleeds into the rest of the year, especially with 3rd party exclusives.

Sea of Thieves has been their most successful game outside of Minecraft which was already multiplatform. Tell me otherwise. That's not a system selling game. It's not God of War, Spider-Man, Uncharted, The Last of Us, Ghost of Tsushima, or even Horizon.

Tell me what GOTY winners they've had.

You're confusing correlation with causation, specifically because you and others have an agenda thinking that PC is bad for business, that's almost entirely rooted in fanboy hysteria.

You bring up VR but you fail to realize that VR isn't big business and that Sony has largely done exactly the right thing on VR. Meta is the leader in VR and they're losing money hand over fist over it. Sony just put their toe in. They priced the PSVR2 for early adopters and core VR enthusiasts. That's why it costs so much money. It's pure margin. They discounted the price to 350 because that's how big their margins are on the device. They could have sold it at cost or even at a loss if they wanted it to be a driver, but they realize we're not there yet.

What you fail to understand is that just as arcades weren't as accessible as home console, PC isn't as accessible as home console. They're extremely expensive and not for the casual gamer. People are complaining about a 700 dollar premium console pretending like the equivalent machine for PC isn't 1100 to 1200 dollars. It's not practical.

You should look at what games actually sell on PC and what games don't. I think people have convinced themselves that Steam players buy games at the same rate as console players, when they don't or that they buy the same type of games... They don't.

If you look at the platinum sellers on Steam in 2023 the only game that leans more console than PC there was hogwarts legacy.

1. Counter Strike 2
2. Apex Legends
3. Destiny 2
4. Lost Ark
5. DOTA 2
6. Sons of the Forest
7. Baldur's Gate 3
8. Hogwarts Legacy
9. Cyberpunk 2077
10. Starfield
11. PUBG Battlegrounds
12. CoD

It's very clear which kinds of games actually sell on PC and what don't.

People who play sports games don't want to play with keyboard and mouse. People who play platform games don't want to play with keyboard and mouse. People who want JRPG don't want to play them on PC. Look at Persona and Final Fantasy. Racing games do better on console. There are very few genres that excel on PC and even games like CoD are actually more popular on console now than PC a change from the early 2000s.

Steam is also somewhat overrated as the most popular games on PC aren't even on Steam.

Fortnite, Minecraft, Roblox, WoW, Genshin Impact.

The idea that Sony can't be successful off of Steam is also a myth.

When you discount annual releases, Sony makes more games than anyone else in the industry and higher rated games as well. They're the only company out there that could have a successful launcher with 1st and 3rd party content outside of Steam.
 
Please share your $799 pcpartpicker build that can run games at the same performance/quality as a regular PS5.
I have never used that site, its confusing and has too many options. I have a build in mind that should cost roughly $850 in US. Should offer a upgrade path well into next gen and match ps5pro in performance.

RTX5060Ti - $400
R5 8400F - $150
8x2 Ram - $40
SSD 1 tb - $50
Mobo AM5 + wifi - $110
PSU - $40
Case - $30
Misc - $50

I am getting these prices where I live.
 

Fabieter

Member
You must not have heard of Nintendo.

And secondly, that's a somewhat shortsighted thing to say based on the price of the Pro. That is not a console Sony needs to subsidize, why should they subsidize their premium TOTALLY optional offering? When they have a base model they sell at a loss to break even. Thats like asking them to subsidize a dual-sense controller at retail even though they give you one in the box.

But furthermore, even if the console is sold at a $50 -$100 profit, it would still be cheaper than the PC equivalent by over 40-50%.

Nintendo still maintains its exclusive titles, something Sony has gradually moved away from. It seems like Sony is undermining one of its key advantages—subsidized consoles—by introducing mid-generation upgrades like the PS5 Pro. Looking ahead, if the PS6 ditches physical game options, Sony could lose one of the last key benefits it has over PC gaming. There's also the risk that they might price future consoles so high that people simply turn away. Many gamers have already said they would switch to a different platform if Sony ever does away with physical game support.
 

Fabieter

Member
Great, same strategy MS is desesperatly trying to do since XB1. Does it work MS?

The wider range of customers is a fallacy. We see PC players don't buy their single player AAA games. They dont. This money is nothing compared to what they do with MTX on their own store. What's happening is that consoles players are fed up about the prices and services and are starting to go to PC ecosystem giving their money to Nvidia, Steam and a bit to Sony. But overall, they are going to lose marketshare and money. Why don't they see it as super obvious is beyond me. I think at this point they are doing whatever their uninformed (western) strategists tell them to do: PC, GAAS, Woke, multiplayer !

They will learn it the hard way and probably blame 292839 other stuff but their obvious failures, but they playing on pc is great so every is welcomed.
 

TrebleShot

Member
I have never used that site, its confusing and has too many options. I have a build in mind that should cost roughly $850 in US. Should offer a upgrade path well into next gen and match ps5pro in performance.

RTX5060Ti - $400
R5 8400F - $150
8x2 Ram - $40
SSD 1 tb - $50
Mobo AM5 + wifi - $110
PSU - $40
Case - $30
Misc - $50

I am getting these prices where I live.
ok and the cost of mouse , keyboard, desk and my library of ps5 games please.
 

Fabieter

Member
You seriously expecting PS6 to cost less than $700?

If the pro sells with little pusbback than 700$ is floor of what they will sell it. And srsly if you are up to for buying a console for that much and you say you won't ever switch to pc(doubtful) than you also would pay 1k$ for ps6. Sony would be stupid to not raise the price again if the pro sticks the landing.
 

Fabieter

Member
ok and the cost of mouse , keyboard, desk and my library of ps5 games please.
I think the last point is funny. What would you do if Sony made an absolute high end machine in 2028 and ask customers 2k for their console. Would you still say nach I can't take my ps5 library with me? Like serious?
 
You look at the difference between Valve and Epic.

Valve has DOTA and CS and Epic has Fortnite, Rocket League (and Genshin Impact).

Outside of that Valve has better 3rd party games and a better launcher.

EGS would have been a success except they tried PAYING for 3rd party exclusivity. Not only does Sony have more games than Epic, but they have better access to leverage 3rd parties. They can do one of two things (among others actually). They can pay for exclusive titles that they used to pay for against Xbox that they no longer need to pay for OR they can simply offer publishers royalty free publishing on their PC launcher at least initially.

If I'm Sony, I have my PC launcher ready to go 3-6 months ahead of GTA6 being ready on PC. I then tell T2 that they can publish on the launcher with zero royalties in exchange for the game being exclusive on that launcher for the first 12-18 months and GTA Online being exclusive on that launcher for some time period or in perpetuity.

This is how you build a successful launcher, by building out the base.

Sony doesn't need to beat Valve on PC. They just need to generate more than 80% of their own PC revenue. Same with T2.

Over time, my guess is that you would see erosion in Steam or at least people using multiple launchers, which they're already doing.
 

BlackTron

Member
You seriously expecting PS6 to cost less than $700?

Yes? PS6 is probably not for at least another 3 years. It'll be $550 give or take 50 bucks. Once again there will be a standard mass market option and a rich $7-800 option. What do you think, PS6 Pro will be $1000? And the costs will just keep expanding at the same rate forever? lol
 

Mr.Phoenix

Member
It's nice that you think this, but the truth is the similarities are all right there. The only difference is timing and, in practice, as time goes on, a 1-2 year stagger (probably shorter if not Day 1) between console & PC versions will feel like nothing to a lot of people since there are so many games to play in the meantime. Not to mention evergreen GAAS titles that will also take up their time, and those games are all on console & PC Day 1if we're talking about PlayStation & Xbox.
I think that difference in practice is a very big one. Day 1. That is the problem, that to me, is the system killer. Sony can get away with doing that for GAAS titles, but the second they start doing that for their single-player AAA titles, the very games that are known to be their bread and butter and what makes them special, I will be right there with everyone else that thinks like you do. Hell, if those games start making their way to PC in under 12 months, that will be enough for me to say its over too.
....which is exactly what Microsoft ended up doing. So sadly, I'm gonna have to say that very soon, that 18-24 month stagger window (which given remarks like these from Hideaki, suggests that will shorten) will "feel" like a 3-6 month stagger at most for yet more people, given all the other options they have to play and how much of a shared library console & PC already have these days (especially for Day 1 releases) compared to even a decade ago. If SIE are counting on that stagger to prevent an onset of problems similar to (but not exactly like) what Microsoft saw with Xbox, quite frankly...they're completely delusional.
I think you are downplaying the stagger effect too much. 18-24 months is a good enough time to wait before releasing on other platforms. And in all likelihood, anyone that is willing to wait that long to play the game on PC, was likely never going to buy the console to begin with. If that staggered time drops to under 12 months? Thats a very different matter, at that point, you then really have people that would opt to buy a PC and wait the 6-12 months for the game to come to PC.

And we have MS to refer to here, but looking at PlayStation, while these execs are being more vocal about it now, they are only parroting what they have already been doing since the end of the last gen. And we can see that their current strategy work, there are no drop in PS sales that are obviously attributable to their games being on PC. Same cant be said about Xbox.
Well if that person has to also buy PS+ and some games to get any usage out of that console, and they may not even play all the newest AAA bangers Day 1 as-is (maybe they prefer indies for example), or they don't need fidelity quite like at PlayStation level to feel it's "good enough"...yes, the likelihood increases for those people to buy or build a PC, or get a laptop for gaming.
Let's not do that, once we start saying things like these, if this and if that... then you are simply creating a scenario that inflates the potential of one platform over another. We could also throw in things like if the person buys the PS5 used for $300... or if he was gifted a PS5....bla bla bla. The point is, their are always going to be subjective scenarios that affect some people and not others... and those always goes both ways.
In fact, IMO PC now has a big advantage over consoles due in part to the decades of x86/x86-64 BC. There are a lot of games on PC now, both old and new, that you simply can't play on a PS5 or Xbox (or Switch, but the focus of this console-wise is solely on Sony & Microsoft). Oh how crazy things have flipped in that regard...​
This is not the kinda thing the average gamer thinks or even cares about. The average joe gamer, hardly even knows about what games were released last year. They are usually buying a console today to play the latest trending game everyone is talking about. BC is no more a selling point for the general gamer on PC than it is on consoles. Its just one of those things that are nice to say when making bullet points.
And there's a right and wrong way to do all of these things. Sony/SIE could've gone about their PC strategy much better. They could've iterated on VR more effectively & efficiently. They could've already been back in handheld and in a way more preferable than the Portal. They should've been pushing in mobile even before their push into PC.

We can agree that SIE having presence in these market segments is a good thing, while still acknowledging they went at a lot of these areas in frankly amateur ways that have caused more problems than necessary.
Generally, the things I didn't address are stuff I mostly agreed with, but this on in particular I disagree with the most.

Yes, sony could have done some things better, but I do believe that their current PC strategy is the best one the can take that keeps safely on the fence. I don't see there being a better way they could have done it. Or should be doing it.

As for VR, I feel they should not have even bothered at all.VR is, and has shown, and will likely always sbe this novelty. I don't think it was worth them investing as much as they have into it.

As for the handheld market think they should steer clear of it too. And feel their current approach is also fine, albeit I will say even with their current approach, I feel they shit the bed too and passed up a perfectly fine opportunity. I think the PS Portal is a great device, and its sales has shown that a lot of people think so too. Its a great second screen device for the home. But I also feel that's where they dropped the ball, they should have made it a device that lets you buy and access all the content on the PS store and allows you to stream them, even if you do not have a PS5. It would inadvertently have been their $200 streaming console, with the option to stream from PS+ (sub required and no console required), or stream from a local device (no sub required and console required).

If they had done that right and properly, the switch 2 and the Steamdecks would be basically competing with a $200 10-17TF handheld console with the only downside being some latency.
 

Killjoy-NL

Banned
I'm not saying it didn't play a part, but nope it's not the main reason.
Yes and neither are the mediocre games. There is no main reason. It's multiple reasons all together.
Playstation will not fail like Xbox did, whether they go day 1 PC or not.
I never said otherwise. Ofcourse Playstation will not fail like Xbox did, that's what I've been saying for years.

The reason for that is because Sony knows Playstation is the core of their business, that's why they keep repeating that Playstation is the core of their business.
 
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Senua

Member
I never said otherwise. Ofcourse Playstation will not fail like Xbox did, that's what I've been saying for years.

The reason for that is because Sony knows Playstation is the core of their business, that's why they keep repeating that Playstation is the core of their business.
"whether they go day 1 PC or not."

Read that part
 

SweetTooth

Gold Member
Sony strategy couldn't be more simple to be successful. Release GAAS games day one on both PS and PC and keep anything else exclusive indefinitely. That's how you maintain your brand valuable and provide additional source of maintenance to GAAS games.

Yes: I mean they should keep their SP games exclusive forever because selling 1 million or 10 million on PC might give you an instant revenue boost but will definitely dilute your core brand in the near future.
 
They will learn it the hard way and probably blame 292839 other stuff but their obvious failures, but they playing on pc is great so every is welcomed.
Not if it pushes them to lower the quality of content or do stuff for PC like GAAS, MP modes etc. Which they have been doing since 2020.

No investment anymore on their SP games overall, only focusing on a few big IP and 3rd person shooters. Their big investment has been on MP, GAAS and services. What did they have last year? Spider-man 2 with woke stuff. This year? Astrobot but that's an happy accident as Team Asobi cost them nothing so they could keep them afloat.

I have no interest anymore on 99% Playstation content. Back then they had so many small and different kind of games that I was always interested into several games.
 

Fabieter

Member
Not if it pushes them to lower the quality of content or do stuff for PC like GAAS, MP modes etc. Which they have been doing since 2020.

No investment anymore on their SP games overall, only focusing on a few big IP and 3rd person shooters. Their big investment has been on MP, GAAS and services. What did they have last year? Spider-man 2 with woke stuff. This year? Astrobot but that's an happy accident as Team Asobi cost them nothing so they could keep them afloat.

I have no interest anymore on 99% Playstation content. Back then they had so many small and different kind of games that I was always interested into several games.

In that case pc is the way to go anyway.
 

BennyBlanco

aka IMurRIVAL69
What always gets glossed over in these threads is Sony lost a massive amount of defacto exclusives as Steam got bigger. Things like Persona, Tekken, Falcom games, Yakuza, Arksys games, Namco games, Street Fighter, etc.

If Metaphor, Ys X, and LAD: Infinite Wealth came out 10 years ago, they would be PS exclusives and not because Sony paid for them, just because they felt that would make the most financial sense. They may have gotten late ports but we would’ve been left wondering. I bought ps3 and ps4 to play stuff like this, not Uncharted and Killzone.

Then at some point through organic growth ™️ and word of mouth as twitch streamers got more popular, Steam got too big to ignore and now all those games are day 1. Consoles moving to x86 probably helped a lot as well. For a guy like me who loves fighting games and JRPGs, and Japanese games in general that moved the needle WAY more than Sony 1st party Marvel games, etc.
 
As for VR, I feel they should not have even bothered at all.VR is, and has shown, and will likely always sbe this novelty. I don't think it was worth them investing as much as they have into it.

I feel like that's revisionist though.

We all thought motion gaming was a novelty, and then the Wii happened. Sony took a low risk shot at making sure they were involved in VR in case it took off. It eventually will.
 

Kacho

Gold Member
What always gets glossed over in these threads is Sony lost a massive amount of defacto exclusives as Steam got bigger. Things like Persona, Tekken, Falcom games, Yakuza, Arksys games, Namco games, Street Fighter, etc.

If Metaphor, Ys X, and LAD: Infinite Wealth came out 10 years ago, they would be PS exclusives and not because Sony paid for them, just because they felt that would make the most financial sense. They may have gotten late ports but we would’ve been left wondering. I bought ps3 and ps4 to play stuff like this, not Uncharted and Killzone.

Then at some point through organic growth ™️ and word of mouth as twitch streamers got more popular, Steam got too big to ignore and now all those games are day 1. Consoles moving to x86 probably helped a lot as well. For a guy like me who loves fighting games and JRPGs, and Japanese games in general that moved the needle WAY more than Sony 1st party Marvel games, etc.
Nailed it. 15-20 years ago you had to own a console if you wanted to play the vast majority of games. Now that’s no longer an issue unless you really want to play Sony first party day one, which isn’t that enticing on its own.
 
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Shin-Ra

Junior Member
They’re devaluing PSN/PS+ by giving free access to PC players and opening themselves to direct comparison with free services.

They’re devaluing the potential to sell remasters of their biggest games on successive console generations.

They’re devaluing first party developers’ ability to specialise and focus optimisation on one (or two similar) console specifications.

They’re devaluing the back catalogue of reasons to buy a PlayStation which has high margin official accessories and 30% cut on third party games they will never get from PC players.
 

reinking

Gold Member
Nailed it. 15-20 years ago you had to own a console if you wanted to play the vast majority of games. Now that’s no longer an issue unless you really want to play Sony first party day one, which isn’t that enticing on its own.
It is enticing to me. Plus, not every PS game has come to PC. At least not yet so there is still some doubt if you are waiting to play something that never comes.
 
Nailed it. 15-20 years ago you had to own a console if you wanted to play the vast majority of games. Now that’s no longer an issue unless you really want to play Sony first party day one, which isn’t that enticing on its own.

Why is the Switch so enticing? What made Nintendo games more enticing on the Switch than the Wii U?
 

Kacho

Gold Member
It is enticing to me. Plus, not every PS game has come to PC. At least not yet so there is still some doubt if you are waiting to play something that never comes.
I don’t think the missing PlayStation games on PC matter to vast majority of people. Games from publishers like Capcom, Namco, Square, Atlus do though. Those are the games that drew a lot of people to PlayStation back in the day, not the Sony first party.
 
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XXL

Member
Nailed it. 15-20 years ago you had to own a console if you wanted to play the vast majority of games. Now that’s no longer an issue unless you really want to play Sony first party day one, which isn’t that enticing on its own.
Imagine calling a system that sold 120M, not that enticing.
Season 8 Wtf GIF by The Office

Step into fucking reality.
 

Fabieter

Member
It is enticing to me. Plus, not every PS game has come to PC. At least not yet so there is still some doubt if you are waiting to play something that never comes.

Don't kid yourself—the era of PlayStation exclusives is over. Sony just can't fully admit it yet, likely to soften the blow for their fans. This way, they can continue to nickel and dime PlayStation fans without offering anything truly special anymore.
 

Killjoy-NL

Banned
Every screen is a Playstation isn't too far away brother, the way of things.
Doesn't really matter, does it?

Everything they do irt PC is extra, in support of the core of their business, which is Playstation consoles.

They got the console-market on lock and their primary goal is to keep it that way.
But if they want to grow, they need to pro-actively reach out to the PC community, because they won't come to consoles on their own.

As long as they make money off PC, it's good.
And if they can see some growth to their console business, it's a win. If not, nothing was lost.

That's their philosophy, which has been talked about by Layden and Ryan.
 

BennyBlanco

aka IMurRIVAL69
Nailed it. 15-20 years ago you had to own a console if you wanted to play the vast majority of games. Now that’s no longer an issue unless you really want to play Sony first party day one, which isn’t that enticing on its own.

Yeah, I have no interest in their Marvel/ Sweet Baby collabs. I will probably buy Ragnarok when it’s sub $20 on CDKeys. For some people those games might be huge deals but I really just don’t care. Way more interested in SB Sparking Zero, Ys X, and Metaphor to finish out the year.
 
I think that'll depend how well the Pro does
I think it depends on another factor.

How well they are able to shift their audience to pc.

If pc revenues make up for shortfall in console revenues, they will definitely move there, without caring for console sales.

While currently their pc audience is small, it should grow over years.
 
This is a myth. What has Microsoft biggest hit been on PC since they started putting games on PC? They collapsed on console because of a lack of AAA big hitters during the holidays whereas Sony consistently put out games that won the holidays. They're outsold during the holidays and that bleeds into the rest of the year, especially with 3rd party exclusives.

Sea of Thieves has been their most successful game outside of Minecraft which was already multiplatform. Tell me otherwise. That's not a system selling game. It's not God of War, Spider-Man, Uncharted, The Last of Us, Ghost of Tsushima, or even Horizon.

Tell me what GOTY winners they've had.

You're confusing correlation with causation, specifically because you and others have an agenda thinking that PC is bad for business, that's almost entirely rooted in fanboy hysteria.

You bring up VR but you fail to realize that VR isn't big business and that Sony has largely done exactly the right thing on VR. Meta is the leader in VR and they're losing money hand over fist over it. Sony just put their toe in. They priced the PSVR2 for early adopters and core VR enthusiasts. That's why it costs so much money. It's pure margin. They discounted the price to 350 because that's how big their margins are on the device. They could have sold it at cost or even at a loss if they wanted it to be a driver, but they realize we're not there yet.

What you fail to understand is that just as arcades weren't as accessible as home console, PC isn't as accessible as home console. They're extremely expensive and not for the casual gamer. People are complaining about a 700 dollar premium console pretending like the equivalent machine for PC isn't 1100 to 1200 dollars. It's not practical.

You should look at what games actually sell on PC and what games don't. I think people have convinced themselves that Steam players buy games at the same rate as console players, when they don't or that they buy the same type of games... They don't.

If you look at the platinum sellers on Steam in 2023 the only game that leans more console than PC there was hogwarts legacy.

1. Counter Strike 2
2. Apex Legends
3. Destiny 2
4. Lost Ark
5. DOTA 2
6. Sons of the Forest
7. Baldur's Gate 3
8. Hogwarts Legacy
9. Cyberpunk 2077
10. Starfield
11. PUBG Battlegrounds
12. CoD

It's very clear which kinds of games actually sell on PC and what don't.

People who play sports games don't want to play with keyboard and mouse. People who play platform games don't want to play with keyboard and mouse. People who want JRPG don't want to play them on PC. Look at Persona and Final Fantasy. Racing games do better on console. There are very few genres that excel on PC and even games like CoD are actually more popular on console now than PC a change from the early 2000s.

Steam is also somewhat overrated as the most popular games on PC aren't even on Steam.

Fortnite, Minecraft, Roblox, WoW, Genshin Impact.

The idea that Sony can't be successful off of Steam is also a myth.

When you discount annual releases, Sony makes more games than anyone else in the industry and higher rated games as well. They're the only company out there that could have a successful launcher with 1st and 3rd party content outside of Steam.

As a lifelong PC gamer (I've always owned consoles too dating back to the NES but game primarily on PC) - this guy wins the thread. This is the most rational and balanced take here, period.

Also, PC build posts listing off a bunch of second-rate components with the lowest possible price are disingenuous and potentially damaging to PC gaming as a whole (other regions exist too BTW - your $900 USD PC is probably like $1400 CAD here). If someone needs a PC for one of the main games out there (CS, Valorant, DOTA, LoL etc...) you could definitely get away with building the cheapest possible gaming rig but if you plan on playing any newer games do yourself a favor and actually build a half-decent rig that doesn't cheap out on pretty much everything other than the CPU and GPU. Having a crappy mobo, RAM and especially PSU can and will cause problems in the long term. Going further, get ready for aggravation when gaming on a TV in the living room unless your entire setup is built with PC in mind. Controller only PC gaming just isn't that great right now (barring BIg Picture) especially when you need to use another launcher. No quick resume. Broken HDR. Needing to pull out the M+KB constantly.

Each platform has a use case and people acting like the PS5 Pro will be the thing that kills consoles in laughable. If anything, consoles and high-end PCs will die at the same time at the altar of streaming. Neither is better than the other - they're different and that's fine.
 

Fabieter

Member
I don’t think the missing PlayStation games on PC matter to vast majority of people. Games from publishers like Capcom, Namco, Square, Atlus do though. Those are the games that drew a lot of people to PlayStation back in the day, not the Sony first party.

Western pubs also had alot of exclusivly on consoles. Not just playstation but there were a shit ton of games exclusive to 360/ps3. There are alot of more reasons to own a PC like every again in console history.
 

Ebrietas

Member
Valve and Nintendo are the other two major platform holders. They keep their games exclusive to their platforms. Valve doesn’t bother with consoles anymore. Why don’t they want to expand into other platforms and make more money than they currently make? Do Valve and Nintendo have an aversion to money? Does Sony know something the other two don’t? Has Sony figured out something that no other platform holder, gaming or otherwise, has not? Or is it more likely they are being mismanaged and making illogical decisions like Xbox?
 
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Kacho

Gold Member
Yeah, I have no interest in their Marvel/ Sweet Baby collabs. I will probably buy Ragnarok when it’s sub $20 on CDKeys. For some people those games might be huge deals but I really just don’t care. Way more interested in SB Sparking Zero, Ys X, and Metaphor to finish out the year.
Yep. Same with Dragon Quest remake in November. Games you used to need a console to play.
 
They’re devaluing PSN/PS+ by giving free access to PC players and opening themselves to direct comparison with free services.

They’re devaluing the potential to sell remasters of their biggest games on successive console generations.

They’re devaluing first party developers’ ability to specialise and focus optimisation on one (or two similar) console specifications.

They’re devaluing the back catalogue of reasons to buy a PlayStation which has high margin official accessories and 30% cut on third party games they will never get from PC players.


When Apple TV+ rolled out, it was initially exclusive to Apple TV, MacOS, iPadOS, and iOS.

They've since rolled it out to nearly every platform and TV under the sun. Did this devalue Apple TV hardware? Or did Apple realize that the revenue generated from content purchased on Apple TV was less valuable than the subscription revenue from having Apple TV+ on all devices?

Selling peripherals, games, and subscriptions on PC is another avenue that is higher margin than selling these same things on console, because they don't have to take a loss on hardware to do these things. If some people move from console to PC, it probably won't hurt their bottom line.

The increased revenue can then be used to reinvest in the company and do bigger and better things.

A lot of you think about this as fanboys rather than as a business. You think you know more than Sony here and your evidence is look at Microsoft who has trailed Sony in this business category for 20+ years despite having significantly more money.

Sony's strategy is a no-brainer.
 

Mr.Phoenix

Member
Nintendo still maintains its exclusive titles, something Sony has gradually moved away from.
And as I said before, 18-24 months between releases on platforms, has not shown any signs of impacting PS sales. If it gets under 12 months for everything, then yeah, this concern may be valid.
It seems like Sony is undermining one of its key advantages—subsidized consoles—by introducing mid-generation upgrades like the PS5 Pro.
This is just not accurate... or even relevant. You talk of the Pro as if the base PS5 doesn't exist, whereas, its actually that something like the Pro, a non subsidized this is the most powerful console we can make for those that want the absolute best PlayStation gaming experience, can ONLY exist and be justified because the base model exists and will still always remain the primary platform.

There is a $450 PS5. The $700, non-subsidized, 2TB expensive PS5? Is not something they likely expect only 1 in 5 future console sales to go to. Its not for everyone. Until they actually release a mainstream console that is non-subsidized, you simply cannot say this.
Looking ahead, if the PS6 ditches physical game options, Sony could lose one of the last key benefits it has over PC gaming. There's also the risk that they might price future consoles so high that people simply turn away. Many gamers have already said they would switch to a different platform if Sony ever does away with physical game support.
I don't believe them... being that 90% of those many gamers are probably 90% on forums like these. Anecdotally speaking, I know like 12 people that own a PS5... I do not know a single one that actually buys physical games. On my part, I know that doesn't mean shit, just saying, that neither does this notion that if they ditched physical there would be some sort of mass exodus.

For what its worth, I don't think they ever will, but I can almost guarantee that 2020 was the last time we see a console launch with a built-in disc drive. Sony would see to it that a disc drive add-on always exists, but come next-gen, I expect it won't even be factored into the design of the actual hardware, and would just be some drive that you can plug into the console vis USB C cable. But it would be there. Why would they drop it when they make money off the people that buy it as an add-on.

As for physical game releases, I feel we will start to see more and more companies either take a staggered release approach where they first release digitally then release physically later, and in some cases, some would skip physical altogether.
 

Fabieter

Member
Doesn't really matter, does it?

Everything they do irt PC is extra, in support of the core of their business, which is Playstation consoles.

They got the console-market on lock and their primary goal is to keep it that way.
But if they want to grow, they need to pro-actively reach out to the PC community, because they won't come to consoles on their own.

As long as they make money off PC, it's good.
And if they can see some growth to their console business, it's a win. If not, nothing was lost.

That's their philosophy, which has been talked about by Layden and Ryan.

Most of the people I know who now exclusively game on PC started out on consoles like Sony, Sega, Nintendo, or Microsoft, and they have no intention of going back. So, to say that the console market will keep growing without losing players is, at least anecdotally, incorrect. ;)
 

BennyBlanco

aka IMurRIVAL69
Valve and Nintendo are the other two major platform holders. They keep their games exclusive to their platforms. Valve doesn’t bother with consoles anymore. Why don’t they want to expand into other platforms and make more money than they currently make? Do Valve and Nintendo have an aversion to money? Does Sony know something the other two don’t? Has Sony figured out something that no other platform holder, gaming or otherwise, has not? Or is it more likely they are being mismanaged and making illogical decisions like Xbox?

Valve’s games over the last decade wouldn’t really work on console. I genuinely couldn’t imagine playing CS2 on a controller. They would need to separate console and PC players or else controller users would just get stomped. DOTA wouldn’t work on a controller. Deadlock might get a console port when it’s released. If they dropped a new game like L4D3 I bet it would come to consoles. Valve doesnt care about exclusives, or else they would be throwing their weight around and moneyhatting them.
 
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