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[XXL]

Whether the PS5 reaches the heights of PS4 remains to be seen, I’m not speculating on that as anything is possible, However I’d wager that the possibility rests solely on the shoulders of GTA6, not Sony first party, which frankly has been lacking.

I can agree with that.

 

[Jesb]

Games will be day one on pc by the time ps6 is here.

 

[Fabieter]

Games will be day one on pc by the time ps6 is here.

We already have most of the 1p stuff day one this year. The only one exclusive was atrobot for now.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Anecdotally, cool.
We also had people on Gaf who were talking about how they were considering getting a PS5 Pro instead of upgrading their PC, because hardware prices are skyrocketing.
So, win some, lose some.

They will also gain new players that are leaving Xbox, which would logically speaking outweigh those that leave consoles for PC, because both PC and console demographics are different.

Like I said, it doesn't matter to Sony, because as long as they make money, it's good.

If the new players leaving Xbox to get a PlayStation were to outweigh those just going to PC, we'd have already seen that happen. Meaning we'd be seeing PS5 keeping up with or passing PS4 for LTD in the territories it's in fact now falling behind PS4 in, or will VERY soon (Japan). And I don't think uptick in newer markets like China will make up for this long-term because in said markets PC and storefronts like Steam are also massively popular, arguably more than they are in the West when talking ratios between PC and console.

Also again, this idea that console & PC audiences are distinctly different isn't true anymore. There are some big pockets of PC gamers into games that have never and likely never will be on console, yet. But over the past 10+ years we've been seeing a huge number of once console-only gamers take to PC as a secondary or even their primary platform. And in growing numbers, even as their only platform more recently. Now WRT the last group, most of those are probably Xbox gamers, but with SIE taking the path they are I won't be surprised if and when more PlayStation gamers contribute towards that amount.

15-20 million remaining isn't realistic. Many prefer the console environment over PC. However, there does exist a rather significant number of people who game on PC but also buy consoles for exclusives. Obviously those people would no longer need the console. So Sony would definitely see some decline in their sales. Perhaps in the 10%-20% range is my guess.

If we're talking 15-20% from the typical 120 million, then I don't think that's possible. I'm getting increasingly worried that SIE plans on shortening the window of non-GAAS ports to PC, and they're testing the litmus on that with Until Dawn remake & LEGO Horizon. A part of me's even ready for them to announce Death Stranding 2 as a Day 1 EGS/Steam release at TGS during that presentation; that's the point we're at now with SIE.

Assuming their strategy doesn't stay static, the only options for SIE are to either reverse on the PC strategy and scale back heavily, or ramp it forward. All the little sound bytes we've been getting and the moves we've seen from SIE regarding PC the better part of this year, suggest they're taking the latter approach. So I'd assume that to mainly affect PS5 Pro adoption rates (8-10 million lifetime), and the PS6 (80-85 million lifetime).

The PC strategy, even if it accelerates, won't really affect PS5 hardware sales as much as avoiding a price cut will, but we could start to see some revenue drops for SIE in terms of select 1P B2P, 3P B2P, MTX, and subscription services revenues in the 2nd half of the generation. Which, again, depending on how things play out with a PS5 price cut (if it ever happens or not), be representative of some hardcore/core enthusiasts shifting more buying to platforms like PC for that stuff, less casuals and mainstream customers jumping in, or a mix of both.

Even with Xbox losing ground, I don't see Sony surpassing their PS4 numbers. With the current direction for future exclusives on the platform, there's no Square Enix to generate hype, and no major PlayStation exclusives to excite people about the PS6. Instead, they’ll likely nickel and dime their remaining fanbase just to maintain some level of stagnation.

And I don't see that even out. I didn't read of anyone actually considering getting a pro over the PC upgrade and it also would be weird since they are on the forward compatible platform.

Anyway that "exodus" won't happen over night. It's a steady process for consoles to lose gamers to pc.

Exactly. And I think PS5 Pro might be the first indication of what effect this strategy could really have in cutting down hardware sales over time. Though I bet some people are also going say the price will be a factor...and it will to some extent.

However, the main audience that'd buy a Pro are the hardcore & core enthusiasts, mainly those who don't have a problem spending a lot of money anyway. So if there is less reason for them to get a Pro because all the games are on PC anyway, then that's a large segment of the Pro customer base potentially gone. High prices will more so affect potential selling rate of regular PS5 consoles, if anything, as the segment that'd normally start buying PS5s at this point in the lifecycle are more price-conscious.

PlayStation has a much higher floor than Xbox did, so even if it suffered the exact same fall in console sales due to basically copying the strategy, it'd probably do at least 2x the total hardware numbers Xbox is looking to finish this gen at, assuming it remains X & S and going to 2028 (~ 40-42 million). Even so, if worst comes to worst and say PS6 "only" does ~ 84-85 million lifetime in an 8-year span, that's still lower than the PS3.

Revenue and profit margins might be much higher than PS3 even at those numbers, but I strongly doubt they'd hit the peaks of PS5's best revenue/profit years, in part because they'd see a lot of lapses in PS+ subs, total console unit sales, 3P B2P and MTX sales, peripheral sales and more 1P software sold on Steam = less overall money for SIE due to Valve getting their cut. That said, I'm not saying it's impossible for SIE to make that type of future work to their advantage; it'll just come at the risk of operating PlayStation less like a traditional console with its business model, possibly even in ways SIE'd rather not prefer (like allowing alternate storefronts on PlayStation & getting rid of online paywall behind PS+).

 

[RetroGamingUK]

The younger generation is growing up on this kinda stuff. Those people watching 10 YouTube videos and building pcs after that.

And it's not the 90s anymore. PC gaming is piss easy with access to the Internet.

You’re right, it’s not the 90s anymore, where you NEEDED a PC to play games like Quake and Half-Life YEARS before they came to console.

Back in 1999 I was really into PC gaming I had Quake 3 and graphically it shat all over anything on PlayStation, if I stuck with Sony I’d be waiting until PS2.

That doesn’t really happen with PC anymore, I’ll be getting Doom: Dark Ages on my PS5 the same day you get it on PC.

This multiplatform stuff works both ways you see.

 

[tusharngf]

You forgot about CPU overheatting causing forest fires and driver updates being the number 1 reason of divorces in the US.

 

[Fabieter]

And no it’s not the 90s anymore, where you NEEDED a PC to play games like Quake and Half-Life YEARS before they came to console.

Back in 1999 I was really into PC gaming I had Quake 3 and graphically it shat all over anything on PlayStation, if I stuck with Sony I’d be waiting until PS2.

That doesn’t really happen with PC anymore, I’ll be getting Doom: Dark Ages on my PS5 the same day you get it on PC.

This multiplatform stuff works both ways you see.

PC still has loads of exclusives while consoles have less and less exclusives to buy a 950 euro console for is just a fact.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

PC still has loads of exclusives while consoles have less and less exclusives to buy a 950 euro console for is just a fact.

Doesn’t have as many big exclusives as it did in the late 90s/early 00s does it though, not anywhere near.

Step back and look at this objectively, step out of your one track minded PC bubble for a second.

 

[Fabieter]

Doesn’t have as many big exclusives as it did in the late 90s/early 00s does it though, not anywhere near.

Step back and look at this objectively, step out of your one track minded PC bubble for a second.

No it hasn't but it has some permanent exclusives while all console games will be on pc going forward. So you pay less money for a PC and get a better experience for a bit less convenience. Easy pick!

 

[RetroGamingUK]

No it hasn't but it has some permanent exclusives while all console games will be on pc going forward. So you pay less money for a PC and get a better experience for a bit less convenience. Easy pick!

For you it is, not for me, we just have different requirements, always will.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Yea the only thing that might help sony getting over ps4 is gravity but its probably the last gta we see for the next 20 years so that also won't matter in the end.

They already slowing down, raising prices across the board so let's see if they can keep the pace. I doubt it. Maybe iam wrong and they are selling better than ps2 but a arrogant company can kill any success and their last moves where not great.

Somehow you're ignoring the fact that GTA6 is a bigger game than anything that Sony had in the back half of the PS4's life... That games like EA FC and CoD won't be on previous gen systems for much longer. That eventually Fortnite will be removed as well.

They're raising prices because they need the margins.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

I'm getting 80's video game crash like vibes.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

PC gamers have made it very clear that they only want to buy games from steam.

Sony won’t be able to get away with an exclusive PC launcher. Sales would be kneecapped tremendously. If this were realistic ask yourself why MS isn’t doing this already. Their “PC launcher” is built into the OS and they own far bigger content than Sony at this point which gives them even more leverage. Why isn’t every MS game exclusive to windows store? Even they can’t escape Steam. On their own OS.

Who is buying Roblox, Minecraft, and Fornite?

Microsoft has their own launcher, they struggle to put out games... you think they have more content than Sony, then explain why PS5 is outselling them and why PS4 outsold them 2:1 on console?

 

[Fabieter]

For you it is, not for me, we just have different requirements, always will.

That you get more for less on pc or that you inconvenience on pc is a non factor nowadays?

Somehow you're ignoring the fact that GTA6 is a bigger game than anything that Sony had in the back half of the PS4's life... That games like EA FC and CoD won't be on previous gen systems for much longer. That eventually Fortnite will be removed as well.

They're raising prices because they need the margins.

Gta vi is a wild card in what will happen. I know that I can blow up like crazy but if your whole business depends on one game to not decline its still kinda sad. But yes you are right Sony is really lucky that Rockstar is still doing the staggered releases. With a full multiplatform release of gta vi the effect on sonys hardware would be minimal.

How is raising the prices on controllers and PS+ justified by the need for margins, when they claim they want to improve things but the quality remains the same? I subscribed to Premium since the changes, and it honestly feels like a rip-off given what they're offering. They probably need those margins to recover from all the failed projects they’ve canceled this generation. So much money was wasted on GaaS (Games as a Service) ventures that didn’t make any impact, and now it’s the consumers who have to pay the price for their mismanagement over the past few years.

 

[Kacho]

I'm getting 80's video game crash like vibes.

The market is rapidly changing but not crashing. We’re witnessing companies adapt to the market because if they don’t they will cease to exist.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

That you get more for less on pc or that you inconvenience on pc is a non factor nowadays?

Now you’re just spouting lies and refuse to see anyone else’s point of view.

I’m done here

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

They are seeing games like Palworld or Black Myth Wukong reaching 20M sales in a single month, stuff like Helldivers 2 being the fastest selling Sony videogame, Elden Ring or Hogwarts also selling 20-30 millions in like a year.

And they want that too, but i agree it can be risky for Playstation, so they are going for the Nintendo route to be able to keep growing their profits, by making money per each sold console since day 1, if that works they shouldn't need to risk with PC releases in a long time.

If Sony want games like Elden Ring, Hogwarts, and Black Myth Wukong, then start making more big AAA games that clearly hit with the market! Instead, and it's clear now, that SIE let GAAS distract from some portion of their traditional game dev pipeline, and they've let disingenuous activists groups cosplaying as consultants negatively affect some of their output this gen (Concord being the most infamous of this). BMW is a case example where if you make a game that clearly resonates with a big enough customer demographic, it will sell and sell plenty.

Sony wanting games like that right off the bat for a new console just a couple years on the market was always unrealistic, and now that they're getting to the install base capacity where that is possible, they've neutered that possibility with their PC strategy. There are probably more gamers who now just wait for the ports on PC than even SIE would like to admit, since they've created that precedent now. That is an artificial problem they created for themselves this gen.

“why would I buy an Xbox when I can get the game day 1 on PC”

That’s when Xbox started to lose the hardcore gamer and early adopters in gaming. Those are the guys who tell their more casual friends which console to buy and they’re also they guys who dictate online discourse and social media discourse. All of the factors have a significant effect on a console’s year 2, 3, 4, etc.. And you can see how Xbox Series sales imploded over the years.

By "PC", we have to get specific and say Steam, because that was the big change for MS here. They pushed for Day 1 on Steam in the same year they were bringing out the Series S & X. For maybe 16-18 months other factors staved off the inevitable, but once those cleared up, the inevitable began happening.

This is what they have been saying. It is everyone else that has lost their shit because they have brought SOME games to PC. If that changes in the future, so be it, but as long as there is a console market I would not get my hopes up (if I was a PC only gamer).

It hasn't been "some" games; it's been everything post-2020 minus a small handful of:

-Destruction All Stars: Dead game, nobody cares​

-Demon's Souls: In the Nvidia leak so probably only a matter of time, but for now still a PS5 exclusive​

-GT7: Also in Nvidia leak so probably only matter of time, but also currently a PlayStation (PS4/PS5) exclusive​

-Spiderman 2: Currently PS5 exclusive, but PC port is inevitable. Probably H2 2025.​

-Astro Bot: they've already teased about wanting to hear from PC players about it on their platform, so...late 2025 Steam port likely?​

...and that's it. 1P-wise (not counting 3P games here), they have a whopping FOUR exclusives on PlayStation consoles. Everything else is either on PC, or confirmed coming to PC, or in some cases also on other consoles (LEGO Horizon, MLB The Show, Destiny etc.). It's been about four years into PS5's lifecycle, and when I can count the number of games from 1P still exclusive to the console on less than one hand, that is a serious problem.

Xbox's collapse started with an overpriced, underpowered, poorly thought out Xbox One. Porting to Windows store was an attempt to generate revenue and it failed so badly that Microsoft eventually had to put their games on Steam as well. Xbox console sales tanked a couple of years before day one on PC effort really ever began. This continued into the current gen as Xbox Series had nothing compelling to offer that would entice gamers to abandon their PS library for Xbox.

PlayStation more than likely will never put their first party studio games on PC day one for the very reasons stated by the PS CEO (forgot his name). PS is their core business. We've seen ports on PC for a few years now and PS isn't remotely following the same collapse as Xbox. Microsoft stopped reporting sales numbers for Xbox the year after its release because sales were so bad.

TBF, yeah the whole Windows Store stuff didn't work for Microsoft but XBO was still doing pretty decently in the US & UK during that time. They remained surprisingly competitive in America vs. PS4 despite all the problems Xbox was seeing with games and whatnot. So I think the whole thing of them publishing their games on Windows Store is kind of overblown; after all they were doing something similar (but more selectively) in the 360 era porting games to Windows and that had even less effect on 360 sales than the equivalent did on XBO.

I don't think it can be stated enough how much Day 1 on Steam for all games is what really helped accelerate demise of Xbox as a console, because that happened in 2020. Same year they released the Series X and S. If it weren't for the pandemic, the chip shortages, recession and super-low supply of PS5 & even PS4 consoles, Xbox hardware would've probably been shuttered by now. The Zenimax announcement would've helped keep sales boosted for maybe six months into 2021 before reality set in and the same declines that started happening in 2022 would've started happening in mid-2021 instead.

In fact if things played out that way, once MS announced the ABK acquisition we would've heard about them spinning down Xbox console hardware and shuttering that side of their gaming division altogether maybe a few months later, if it meant getting ABK through much faster than it turned out in this timeline.

 

[Fabieter]

Now you’re just spouting lies and refuse to see anyone else’s point of view.

I’m done here

It's what I said before and it's no lies. Doing the math throughout a generation its always better value to go to PC except you are one of those people buying like 1 or 2 games a year. That might be different!

 

[Punished Miku]

All the people that tried to just say "SonyToo" for the last year anytime someone tried to speculate that this is where things were going, well you see now what that's worth when people can't reply with much beyond a meme word. Turns out all those predictions are looking more likely by the day. Same people were throwing a fit when people pointed out the decline of physical media. That same overconfidence and lack of willingness to discuss things clouded a lot of people here on both issues. It's all crumbled over the last week.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

It's what I said before and it's no lies. Doing the math throughout a generation its always better value to go to PC except you are one of those people buying like 1 or 2 games a year. That might be different!

Well I only buy physical games, I regularly trade them and me and my friends lend each other games (PS5 and Switch).

No interest in Steam or digital in general.

 

[Fabieter]

Well I only buy physical games, I regularly trade them and me and my friends lend each other games (PS5 and Switch).

No interest in Steam or digital in general.

Hopefully, Sony will stick with physical media, though I doubt it right now. Maybe you'll get lucky.

By the way, the new Steam Family Sharing feature lets my friends play all the games in my library, as long as we’re not playing the exact same game at the same time. Isn’t that great value? Interestingly, over the past few days, many PlayStation fans have been defending Sony’s decision to exclude a disc drive, so it seems like a lot of them only like physical media as a benefit of PC gaming when it suits them.

 

[Physiognomonics]

I have a bad feeling about this. They still learned nothing.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

Hopefully, Sony will stick with physical media, though I doubt it right now. Maybe you'll get lucky.

By the way, the new Steam Family Sharing feature lets my friends play all the games in my library, as long as we’re not playing the exact same game at the same time. Isn’t that great value? Interestingly, over the past few days, many PlayStation fans have been defending Sony’s decision to exclude a disc drive, so it seems like a lot of them only like physical media as a benefit of PC gaming when it suits them.

I don’t mind the drives being optional, as long as I have the option to buy a disc.

 

[Fabieter]

I have a bad feeling about this. They still learned nothing.

They think they can have their cake and eat it too. If they truly mess this up, there will be no going back to the status quo.

I don’t mind the drives being optional, as long as I have the option to buy a disc.

Yea but only having a digital option, more and more people will switch to digital only and finally Sony has a excuse to kill it. I would be shocked at this point that Sony allows physical next gen. They are full on arrogance mode rn.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

If the new players leaving Xbox to get a PlayStation were to outweigh those just going to PC, we'd have already seen that happen. Meaning we'd be seeing PS5 keeping up with or passing PS4 for LTD in the territories it's in fact now falling behind PS4 in, or will VERY soon (Japan). And I don't think uptick in newer markets like China will make up for this long-term because in said markets PC and storefronts like Steam are also massively popular, arguably more than they are in the West when talking ratios between PC and console.

You completely ignore the fact that this gen launched during a pandemic, there were shortages for 2-2.5 years and the current world-economy is shit, with PS5 being priced higher than at launch due to inflation, while people have less and less money to spend.

Coupled with the fact that the majority of games released so far have been cross-gen, there's a lot of people who are still on last-gen.

Wasn't there even a report that a signifcant part of the PS5 userbase were completely new users?

Also again, this idea that console & PC audiences are distinctly different isn't true anymore. There are some big pockets of PC gamers into games that have never and likely never will be on console, yet. But over the past 10+ years we've been seeing a huge number of once console-only gamers take to PC as a secondary or even their primary platform. And in growing numbers, even as their only platform more recently. Now WRT the last group, most of those are probably Xbox gamers, but with SIE taking the path they are I won't be surprised if and when more PlayStation gamers contribute towards that amount.

This has pretty much always been the case and since you adressed the case of people owning both PC and PS5, that's what Sony is after when it comes to the PC installbase.

Your last statement (bolded) is inevitable, because there will barely be a Xbox demographic left to move to any platform.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

They think they can have their cake and eat it too. If they truly mess this up, there will be no going back to the status quo.



Yea but only having a digital option, more and more people will switch to digital only and finally Sony has a excuse to kill it. I would be shocked at this point that Sony allows physical next gen. They are full on arrogance mode rn.

Look at the physical to digital ratio in many countries, especially Japan, no way Sony abandon that.

 

[Trilobit]

Games will be day one on pc by the time ps6 is here.

I'm completely fine with that as a PS owner as long as they nerf the PC versions in creative ways.

Am I serious? No. Or am I? Maybe?

 

[Fabieter]

You completely ignore the fact that this gen launched during a pandemic, there were shortages for 2-2.5 years and the current world-economy is shit, with PS5 being priced higher than at launch due to inflation, while people have less and less money to spend.

Coupled with the fact that the majority of games released so far have been cross-gen, there's a lot of people who are still on last-gen.

Wasn't there even a report that a signifcant part of the PS5 userbase were completely new users?

This has pretty much always been the case and since you adressed the case of people owning both PC and PS5, that's what Sony is after when it comes to the PC installbase.

Your last statement (bolded) is inevitable, because there will barely be a Xbox demographic left to move to any platform.

Yea its true that there was a report which said that but at the same time they said Sony was already making money on every console sold. And yet, you keep using excuses like COVID and inflation. The crazy thing is, COVID actually helped Sony make a lot of money. While there was a chip shortage, the insanely high demand was also driven by the lockdowns from COVID, which essentially balanced things out for them.

 

[Fabieter]

Look at the physical to digital ratio in many countries, especially Japan, no way Sony abandon that.

Sony proved time and time again that they don't give a fuck about japan anymore. They will kill it in no time if that's all I takes.

Switch 2 will basically absorb the rest of the Japanese playstation base. Playstation is dead in Japan.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

Sony proved time and time again that they don't give a fuck about japan anymore. They will kill it in no time if that's all I takes.

Switch 2 will basically absorb the rest of the Japanese playstation base. Playstation is dead in Japan.

Deluded liar

PS5 is outpacing PS4 and PS3 sales in Japan

The new-gen machine is a bit of a sales juggernaut for Sony

www.gamesradar.com

 

[Ebrietas]

They think they can have their cake and eat it too. If they truly mess this up, there will be no going back to the status quo.



Yea but only having a digital option, more and more people will switch to digital only and finally Sony has an excuse to kill it. I would be shocked at this point that Sony allows physical next gen. They are full on arrogance mode rn.

I see a similar kind of hubris from the ps3 era. When they thought nobody would abandon their console to buy the new Xbox or Nintendo.

Sony overestimated their brand loyalty once. Now they’re doing it again.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

Yea its true that there was a report which said that but at the same time they said Sony was already making money on every console sold. And yet, you keep using excuses like COVID and inflation. The crazy thing is, COVID actually helped Sony make a lot of money. While there was a chip shortage, the insanely high demand was also driven by the lockdowns from COVID, which essentially balanced things out for them.

Nothing got balanced out, because shortages lasted longer than the lockdowns.
Then when they were catching up, prices went up due to inflation, which is in part a result of the pandemic.

It's not even an excuse, it's literally what happened, but it seems like people like you live in this weird little gaming-bubble where everything that happened more than a year ago is ancient history and completely disconnected from anything current.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

I see a similar kind of hubris from the ps3 era. When they thought nobody would abandon their console to buy the new Xbox or Nintendo.

Sony overestimated their brand loyalty once. Now they’re doing it again.

Nobody did abandon their console after the PS3-era, because PS4 became the second most successful Playstation.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

If the new players leaving Xbox to get a PlayStation were to outweigh those just going to PC, we'd have already seen that happen. Meaning we'd be seeing PS5 keeping up with or passing PS4 for LTD in the territories it's in fact now falling behind PS4 in, or will VERY soon (Japan). And I don't think uptick in newer markets like China will make up for this long-term because in said markets PC and storefronts like Steam are also massively popular, arguably more than they are in the West when talking ratios between PC and console.

Also again, this idea that console & PC audiences are distinctly different isn't true anymore. There are some big pockets of PC gamers into games that have never and likely never will be on console, yet. But over the past 10+ years we've been seeing a huge number of once console-only gamers take to PC as a secondary or even their primary platform. And in growing numbers, even as their only platform more recently. Now WRT the last group, most of those are probably Xbox gamers, but with SIE taking the path they are I won't be surprised if and when more PlayStation gamers contribute towards that amount.



If we're talking 15-20% from the typical 120 million, then I don't think that's possible. I'm getting increasingly worried that SIE plans on shortening the window of non-GAAS ports to PC, and they're testing the litmus on that with Until Dawn remake & LEGO Horizon. A part of me's even ready for them to announce Death Stranding 2 as a Day 1 EGS/Steam release at TGS during that presentation; that's the point we're at now with SIE.

Assuming their strategy doesn't stay static, the only options for SIE are to either reverse on the PC strategy and scale back heavily, or ramp it forward. All the little sound bytes we've been getting and the moves we've seen from SIE regarding PC the better part of this year, suggest they're taking the latter approach. So I'd assume that to mainly affect PS5 Pro adoption rates (8-10 million lifetime), and the PS6 (80-85 million lifetime).

The PC strategy, even if it accelerates, won't really affect PS5 hardware sales as much as avoiding a price cut will, but we could start to see some revenue drops for SIE in terms of select 1P B2P, 3P B2P, MTX, and subscription services revenues in the 2nd half of the generation. Which, again, depending on how things play out with a PS5 price cut (if it ever happens or not), be representative of some hardcore/core enthusiasts shifting more buying to platforms like PC for that stuff, less casuals and mainstream customers jumping in, or a mix of both.



Exactly. And I think PS5 Pro might be the first indication of what effect this strategy could really have in cutting down hardware sales over time. Though I bet some people are also going say the price will be a factor...and it will to some extent.

However, the main audience that'd buy a Pro are the hardcore & core enthusiasts, mainly those who don't have a problem spending a lot of money anyway. So if there is less reason for them to get a Pro because all the games are on PC anyway, then that's a large segment of the Pro customer base potentially gone. High prices will more so affect potential selling rate of regular PS5 consoles, if anything, as the segment that'd normally start buying PS5s at this point in the lifecycle are more price-conscious.

PlayStation has a much higher floor than Xbox did, so even if it suffered the exact same fall in console sales due to basically copying the strategy, it'd probably do at least 2x the total hardware numbers Xbox is looking to finish this gen at, assuming it remains X & S and going to 2028 (~ 40-42 million). Even so, if worst comes to worst and say PS6 "only" does ~ 84-85 million lifetime in an 8-year span, that's still lower than the PS3.

Revenue and profit margins might be much higher than PS3 even at those numbers, but I strongly doubt they'd hit the peaks of PS5's best revenue/profit years, in part because they'd see a lot of lapses in PS+ subs, total console unit sales, 3P B2P and MTX sales, peripheral sales and more 1P software sold on Steam = less overall money for SIE due to Valve getting their cut. That said, I'm not saying it's impossible for SIE to make that type of future work to their advantage; it'll just come at the risk of operating PlayStation less like a traditional console with its business model, possibly even in ways SIE'd rather not prefer (like allowing alternate storefronts on PlayStation & getting rid of online paywall behind PS+).

It's a different world.

Similar to the industry I work in, the days on gunning for endless truckloads of products to sell at bargain prices for sake of top line sales and marketing managers bragging about gaining 1.5 pts of share the past 6 months are over. At least for consumer goods. That started happening about 10 years ago. But really focused on the strategy about 6-7 years ago. That's actually not much different than console makers keeping console prices high starting with PS4/One generation. They never dumped off systems for $99, or even incurred $200+ losses per unit at launch for sake of user base. if this was the 360/PS3 days, the console prices went into the gutter, tons of bundle deals, buy a console and Best Buy was giving away 5 games etc... I remember buying a 360 Slim because of RROD around 2012 and the pack in bundle was 3 free MS games.... Gears, Alan Wake I think and Fable or Halo. I forget, but I gave away two codes. This 250gb system was way cheaper than my 20gb Pro system.

They've realized that keep console prices high helps their profitability best as possible right off the bat, maintains it with few price drops or sales, and the money comes from whales doing mtx, gamers doing sub plans and the like.

The last thing they want are gamers who buy a console for dirt cheap for a big loss, and all they do is play F2P games with no mtx. PS is in a worst spot for these low value gamers because I think you can do F2P games without PS+. While MS requires a sub plan to play F2P (I think, but maybe they changed that).

The company I work for has had profits and margins zoomed up nicely despite top line sales barely growing. And some years profits went up with LESS sales. Our focus changed cutting out bargain hunters only buying stuff for 99 cents or $1.99. If our market share tanked, we dont care anymore holistically. Of course you dont want a brand to drop from 30% to 5%. But if it dropped from 30% to 25% but our profits zoomed up, were all happy and our bonuses are great since market share % isnt even a worker objective for bonus payouts. It's all about Net Sales, Profits and Cash Flow metrics.

 

[Ebrietas]

Nobody did abandon their console after the PS3-era, because PS4 became the second most successful Playstation.

That was after Sony course corrected mid gen. For the first few years the ps3 was getting slaughtered by the 360 and wii.

 

[PeteBull]

We already have most of the 1p stuff day one this year. The only one exclusive was atrobot for now.

ff7 rebirth still has no pc date, stellar blade devs confirmet near future pc launch tho.

 

[Fabieter]

Deluded liar

PS5 is outpacing PS4 and PS3 sales in Japan

The new-gen machine is a bit of a sales juggernaut for Sony

www.gamesradar.com

Alot of people discussing this here. A) ps5 is massively slowing down in japan b) the software sales are alot worse than ps3 and ps4. So those consoles are probably brought in another country or something. They definitely not gonna buy more games than before.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

That was after Sony course corrected mid gen. For the first few years the ps3 was getting slaughtered by the 360 and wii.

Well yeah, and they managed to outsell the most popular Xbox console, despite it having an 18-month headstart and Sony fucking up.

Fact is, if we look at the console installbase between PS and Xbox, it has remained relatively stable ever since PS2/OG Xbox, with no signs of growth.
Hence their PC releases, as well as other markets (like the movie industry) to expand their reach and reel more people in.

 

[Fabieter]

Nothing got balanced out, because shortages lasted longer than the lockdowns.
Then when they were catching up, prices went up due to inflation, which is in part a result of the pandemic.

It's not even an excuse, it's literally what happened, but it seems like people like you live in this weird little gaming-bubble where everything that happened more than a year ago is ancient history and completely disconnected from anything current.

Yea let's excuse all of their shortcomings . Can't wait for 2028.

 

[Fess]

If I'm Sony, I have my PC launcher ready to go 3-6 months ahead of GTA6 being ready on PC. I then tell T2 that they can publish on the launcher with zero royalties in exchange for the game being exclusive on that launcher for the first 12-18 months and GTA Online being exclusive on that launcher for some time period or in perpetuity.

This is how you build a successful launcher, by building out the base.

That’s an awful plan, that’s taking what people hate the most about console gaming and moving that to PC where freedom is one of the main pillars. It will backfire like every other plan to force people onto things they don’t want. Locking GTA6 to a Playstation launcher on PC would be as popular as Microsoft locking Call of Duty to a Xbox launcher. Disastrous PR.

No Sony should use Steam just like they do now, but shorten the delays. That’s how you build positive PR and gain the trust of a new customer base and make it grow.

They could use a Playstation launcher for day 1 access to their own first party games, with save and license syncing from console, like Microsoft’s Play Anywhere titles. Then 1 year max delay to Steam. Nothing lost, nothing gets worse, that would work PR wise.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

Yea let's excuse all of their shortcomings . Can't wait for 2028.

Nobody is excusing their shortcomings.

 

[hinch7]

Bring on the day one releases. Then your games won't get snubbed. Worked for HD 2, will work for other games.

 

[Rhazer Fusion]

IMO, unless it’s a live service or online game, day one Sony PC games would be a huge mistake for Sony. I don’t care what anyone says. I think that particular day one release strategy significantly contributed to the XBox’s downfall and I feel it will eventually affect PlayStation as there would be even less reasons to own one. Not helping that it seems like PlayStation hardware is getting more expensive well and it a larger number of people are becoming more apprehensive of Sony with their recent decisions.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

This is a myth. What has Microsoft biggest hit been on PC since they started putting games on PC? They collapsed on console because of a lack of AAA big hitters during the holidays whereas Sony consistently put out games that won the holidays. They're outsold during the holidays and that bleeds into the rest of the year, especially with 3rd party exclusives.

Are we talking pre-or-post M&As? In either case, your problem is you're looking for that one "killer app" to make the case, when the truth is a platform or publisher being carried by one "killer app" hasn't been a thing for arguably decades now. You're probably also going by just B2P sales, forgetting that games like Minecraft (which Microsoft own) or ESO get a lot in MTX sales.

Wasn't the best-selling period for both the 360 and Series during Spring period? That's well removed from the Christmas shopping season, and you're also forgetting that in terms of the big AAA releases XBO was getting all the same games PS4 did (COD, Madden, FIFA, NBA, AssCreed, Far Cry, and more recently games like Elden Ring, Hogwarts Legacy etc.). We already know from SIE fiscals that 1P and even 3P exclusives don't constitute the majority of software sales or revenue, so why would that matter in this context?

Sea of Thieves has been their most successful game outside of Minecraft which was already multiplatform. Tell me otherwise. That's not a system selling game. It's not God of War, Spider-Man, Uncharted, The Last of Us, Ghost of Tsushima, or even Horizon.

True and I've said this in the past; one of Xbox's biggest problems was it lacked clear big-name heavy-hitting exclusives. That's why they went and bought Zenimax...until they bought ABK and were forced to renege on their exclusivity plans with Zenimax games because of it and Xbox hardware sales collapse.

Tell me what GOTY winners they've had.

GOTY doesn't really mean tons in terms of sales; Alan Wake 2 got tons of GOTY and still hasn't sold super-swell. Astro Bot could very well get GOTY at TGAs this year; will that suddenly catapult it (great as it is and likely on pace to do ~ 5 million in 2 years if not slightly higher) to 20 million? No

You're confusing correlation with causation, specifically because you and others have an agenda thinking that PC is bad for business, that's almost entirely rooted in fanboy hysteria.

I've never said PC is bad business, but it can be bad business if pursued in a way that compromises what should be the core of SIE's business (the console). When even investors are questioning SIE's approach with multiplatform, fair to say concerns are mounting.

You bring up VR but you fail to realize that VR isn't big business and that Sony has largely done exactly the right thing on VR. Meta is the leader in VR and they're losing money hand over fist over it. Sony just put their toe in. They priced the PSVR2 for early adopters and core VR enthusiasts. That's why it costs so much money. It's pure margin. They discounted the price to 350 because that's how big their margins are on the device. They could have sold it at cost or even at a loss if they wanted it to be a driver, but they realize we're not there yet.

Oh so you think the $350 price for PSVR2 only a year after it was $550 means they're making a profit on it? To me that could equally have been read as them taking a loss, especially since the $350 was a promotion for a limited period of time (IIRC it's gone back to the normal price).

SIE wanted to move inventory even if it meant potentially taking a loss on headsets because the total number of headsets sold is nothing compared to the consoles where they are making profits on each console sold. That's how I've looked at it. As to SIE's continued presence in VR, I'll only truly consider it a failure if they don't properly iterate on the tech for next generation. The potential in VR (or better yet, MR) for immersive gaming experiences is there, and SIE (along with Sony) have the hardware & software talent to lead the market.

But if they can't identify how best to do so, and just drop it altogether, then yes that is a complete failure on their part. Pushing for a $1000 PSVR3 will be a failure, because that in itself is not the best way to capitalize on the potential. But to see that you need visionaries calling the shots, not suits.

What you fail to understand is that just as arcades weren't as accessible as home console, PC isn't as accessible as home console. They're extremely expensive and not for the casual gamer. People are complaining about a 700 dollar premium console pretending like the equivalent machine for PC isn't 1100 to 1200 dollars. It's not practical.

You can literally get a decent PC or laptop for playing many current games at "acceptable" performance levels for the price of a console or just a bit more. And, when it comes to console, you are leaving out the cost for things like subscriptions to simply play all games online, which is a hidden cost that adds over time. That is non-existent on PC since online play is 100% free.

Speaking of casuals, yes a $2,000 PC is of course not for them but I don't think a $500 console 5-6 years into its lifecycle will be for a lot of them, either. The people perfectly fine with a $700 PS5 Pro are not casuals; they're hardcore/core enthusiasts likely already invested in the PS5 ecosystem and would have factors other than cost push them towards PC over time.

You should look at what games actually sell on PC and what games don't. I think people have convinced themselves that Steam players buy games at the same rate as console players, when they don't or that they buy the same type of games... They don't.

I've never said Steam people buy games at the rate of console owners (at least, PS console owners). In fact I've even made fun of the fact that for having 130+ million users, Steam B2P software sales are at best maybe 60% of PlayStation's annual B2P software sales in revenue.

If you look at the platinum sellers on Steam in 2023 the only game that leans more console than PC there was hogwarts legacy.

1. Counter Strike 2
2. Apex Legends
3. Destiny 2
4. Lost Ark
5. DOTA 2
6. Sons of the Forest
7. Baldur's Gate 3
8. Hogwarts Legacy
9. Cyberpunk 2077
10. Starfield
11. PUBG Battlegrounds
12. CoD

It's very clear which kinds of games actually sell on PC and what don't.

Destiny 2 is as much a console-rooted game as it is a PC one, and you know this. Bungie's history is tied to console. COD is also a console-heavy franchise. So that's at least 25% of the Top 12 being readily console-rooted IP.

And well, you can't just go by Top 12/Top 20 etc. charts. We know that most console releases don't do anywhere near the numbers of the Top 10, why would it be any different on Steam? More important is to probably look at the sales splits with digital factored in, on a per-game basis. And we can see with some games like Street Fighter 6, the PC sales split is much more than would've assumed to be in the past for an IP like SF which is very much console-rooted.

It's not just Street Fighter, either; this isn't me saying PC (Steam, specifically) is suddenly making up most of the sales splits or even trading blows with PlayStation's in many cases, but it should be somewhat alarming for SIE to see that PC sales share has been steadily growing over years and that is somewhat coming at the expense of sales on PlayStation. It started with Western games but this gen it's also been increasingly the case for Japanese and Asian-developed games too, even in some markets where consoles are quite big.

People who play sports games don't want to play with keyboard and mouse.

Good thing controllers are supported on PC then. Even the DualSense is fully supported o.0

People who play platform games don't want to play with keyboard and mouse.

Same as above.

People who want JRPG don't want to play them on PC.

Uh...what?

Look at Persona and Final Fantasy.

You mean the same Persona that's seen PC sales take up a larger and large slice of the pie with each passing installment? Yeah that one works against your point. We'll see how well that plays off for Atlus with Persona 6, since that'll probably be Day 1 on just about everything.

Final Fantasy is more a case that SE did EGS exclusivity for years before porting to Steam; if you aren't a massive IP on PC like League, WoW etc. you're likely going to need Steam to reach most of the PC gaming audience. Square-Enix seem to be moving in that direction going forward, and we'll see how that plays out for them.

Racing games do better on console.

It depends. Arcade racers? Yeah, more often than not (tho Forza Horizon 5 did better on Steam than Xbox and Game Pass). Simulators? If talking just sales, then yeah, but that is COMPLETELY carried by Gran Turismo.

If talking in terms of player communities, it might get more distorted. There are many simulation racers on PC for example, with their own communities there absent on console since those games (iRacing for instance) aren't on PlayStation or Xbox.

There are very few genres that excel on PC and even games like CoD are actually more popular on console now than PC a change from the early 2000s.

By "excel" you're only talking in B2P sales and even then just focused on singular major instances. That's why your takes are skewed the way they are.

Steam is also somewhat overrated as the most popular games on PC aren't even on Steam.

Fortnite, Minecraft, Roblox, WoW, Genshin Impact.

Right, but all of these are also still PC games with huge audiences there. Audiences that in some cases, would have been on consoles like PlayStation if PC weren't a viable alternative.

The fact that it is, and the fact those people are over there, means that as a platform PC does in fact compete with consoles like PlayStation, despite protests from SIE to the contrary.

The idea that Sony can't be successful off of Steam is also a myth.

Well, they can in theory. But it's going to be a long play gambit, and will involve many millions of dollars spent to push themselves in that space without Steam. For a company that's already said they want to maximize margins and not spend money in frivolous ways.

...yeah, good luck :/

When you discount annual releases, Sony makes more games than anyone else in the industry and higher rated games as well. They're the only company out there that could have a successful launcher with 1st and 3rd party content outside of Steam.

Yes those are things which will help them if they want to make a PS PC launcher, but they kinda need 3P games on that launcher too in order to drive regular purchasing habits among users, and get their publisher cut from 3P on that storefront.

1P games alone will not make SIE's PC storefront compete, let alone best, storefronts like Steam that have 2+ decades of relevance, mindshare, market share, and brand strength in the PC gaming space.

 

[Kacho]

Not helping that it seems like PlayStation hardware is getting more expensive well and it a larger number of people are becoming more apprehensive of Sony with their recent decisions.

It’s the same thing with Game Pass and the Xbox revisions. Prices need to increase to offset a stagnant/declining userbase.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

The market is rapidly changing but not crashing. We’re witnessing companies adapt to the market because if they don’t they will cease to exist.

If gamers made PC the main...
It's over.

 

[PixelatedBeast]

Gear up Steam players, you might not be able to play GTA6 on release, but now this means you get more games like Concord....

It's already weird to see port begging for Astro Bot from PC only players.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

It's already weird to see port begging for Astro Bot from PC only players.

Portbegging for Astro Bot?

Before you know it, people might be tempted to bite and get a Playstation as secondary platform.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

Can you be specific on the parts in bold please?

I'm intrigued to see what you're able to get for those prices where you live.

Ok. Here you go…

SSD - Adata Legend 850 Lite
Mobo - Gigabyte B650 Gaming Wifi (thats the name)
PSU - Cooler Master MWE 550 V2
RAM - Crucial 8gb 4800 MHz

Ram modules only these available in 8gb variants.

 

[Fabieter]

Gear up Steam players, you might not be able to play GTA6 on release, but now this means you get more games like Concord....

It's already weird to see port begging for Astro Bot from PC only players.

All hope for Sony is on gta vi