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[Regiruler]

But who exactly is that serving? Competitive players would just turn that off and more casual players already have enough on their plate trying to remember their various moves and counterplays to not have to be bogged down by hazard avoidance too.

Also just from a game balance perspective, hazards sound like they'd unfairly benefit zoning characters

Why do it?
1. If done right, it looks fucking cool
2. It promotes stages as actual content instead of a skin and music pack
3. They change the flow of gameplay, and having a dynamic flow over a monotonous flow is more often than not a good thing.
Pokken already has the synergy drops, so it's not like prioritizing certain spots is absent. This would just be an expansion of that concept.

The idea that terrain should influence gameplay seems to be completely toxic in fighting games, yet genres like shooters go and make it their identity.

And on zoning characters, it would depend on the hazard. The one I specifically suggested for Regi Ruins would be on the outside ring, which would incentivise the center more, thus making it easier for the close range character to get in melee distance.

 

[sixteen-bit]

That Nintendo World exhibition earlier was a great showcase of the game. I'm real excited for this.

 

[Not75Drops]

Why do it?
1. If done right, it looks fucking cool
2. It promotes stages as actual content instead of a skin and music pack
3. They change the flow of gameplay, and having a dynamic flow over a monotonous flow is more often than not a good thing.
Pokken already has the synergy drops, so it's not like prioritizing certain spots is absent. This would just be an expansion of that concept.

The idea that terrain should influence gameplay seems to be completely toxic in fighting games, yet genres like shooters go and make it their identity.

And on zoning characters, it would depend on the hazard. The one I specifically suggested for Regi Ruins would be on the outside ring, which would incentivise the center more, thus making it easier for the close range character to get in melee distance.

Because shooters aren't as deep as fighters. You've just got a weapon. Therefore map control is key.

Hazards in fighters just end up being distracting most of the time as they can be random and disrupt the flow of combos.

 

[Chase17]

Just started the download. Telling me its going to take in hour, not sure if I'll be staying up though.

 

[Neoleo2143]

Because shooters aren't as deep as fighters. You've just got a weapon. Therefore map control is key.

Depends, if we equate depth as a relationship between play and counterplay, stuff like Quake and Rainbow Six have really high depth that is also facilitated by level design. But Shooting a gun on a flat landscape isn't interesting like the dynamic present in good fighters I'll give you that.

 

[Gaiaknight]

games downloading!

 

[Regiruler]

Because shooters aren't as deep as fighters. You've just got a weapon. Therefore map control is key.

And you can't add similar to fighters, because they're too deep?
That honestly does not fly for me. Relying solely on characters is too simplistic.

Hazards in fighters just end up being distracting most of the time as they can be random and disrupt the flow of combos.

Breaking combos isn't a concern. It's not like you completely lose or some shit, you just don't get the last 3% damage (most combos are done in duel phase anyway: I'm advocating for hazards in field phase). And well implemented hazards are sufficiently predictable, or have audio and visual warnings.

 

[Mihael Mello Keehl]

So any store get the controller ? smh..

 

[SolicitorPirate]

And you can't add similar to fighters, because they're too deep?
That honestly does not fly for me. Relying solely on characters is too simplistic.

You must defeat my shoryuken if you want to make this argument.

 

[sixteen-bit]

R Pika? Oh you...

The crossover fanart is great

 

[Regiruler]

You must defeat my shoryuken if you want to make this argument.

Joke or not, I don't like street fighter.

And as a small note, hazards don't have to be explicitly harmful. Castlevania judgement had a cool one for one of its stages, where an echo would ring out every 10 seconds or so, somewhat muting audio cues. There were still all the visual cues, but the hazard force you to be more attentive.

 

[Rutger]

Why do it?
1. If done right, it looks fucking cool
2. It promotes stages as actual content instead of a skin and music pack
3. They change the flow of gameplay, and having a dynamic flow over a monotonous flow is more often than not a good thing.
Pokken already has the synergy drops, so it's not like prioritizing certain spots is absent. This would just be an expansion of that concept.

The idea that terrain should influence gameplay seems to be completely toxic in fighting games, yet genres like shooters go and make it their identity.

And on zoning characters, it would depend on the hazard. The one I specifically suggested for Regi Ruins would be on the outside ring, which would incentivise the center more, thus making it easier for the close range character to get in melee distance.

And the bolded is the main problem with stage hazards. Fighting games are about the one vs. one experience, throw stage hazards into the mix and then during portions of the match it's no longer about how you play around your opponent, it's about how you play around the stage. In the best case, both players just try to wait it out and maybe even hit the other into the hazard(which still negatively affects the neutral game), in the worst case, the player on the advantage will have to stop their combo/blockstring/whatever because the stage said that's a bad spot to be in.

 

[Platy]

...no demo on Americas

 

[Beats]

I dunno where to get the pokken controller in Canada.

Maybe I'm not looking at the right sites. It doesn't seem to be available to buy anywhere.

 

[Regiruler]

And the bolded is the main problem with stage hazards. Fighting games are mainly about the one vs. one experience, throw stage hazards into the mix and then during portions of the match it's no longer about how you play around your opponent, it's about how you play around the stage. In the best case, both players just try to wait it out and maybe even hit the other into the hazard(which still negatively affects the neutral game), in the worst case, the player on the advantage will have to stop their combo/blockstring/whatever because the stage said that's a bad spot to be in.

The 1v1 "experience" is a means to an end. Ideally, fighters should be, at their core, a competitive, multiplayer action game. Good action games make proper use of dynamic structuring, just look at any setpiece from a platinum game.

 

[Platy]

I wonder if the DEMO comes later like when the eshop updates

 

[darkressurection]

...no demo on Americas

Yeah, it's actually really frustrating that it seems like other regions get a demo at launch and we don't. I'm hoping that maybe it will just take a little extra time to get put on the eShop tonight.

 

[Not75Drops]

I don't think the demo was up in Europe until the full game was so it might still release in America. Is there a demo banner on the eshop front page?

 

[Platy]

I don't think the demo was up in Europe until the full game was so it might still release in America. Is there a demo banner on the eshop front page?

No banner on the page and the game is already up to buy on canadian eshop

 

[Regiruler]

I can't play tonight regardless. I'm away from my console.And a demo wouldn't do anything for me anyway since my brother had it preordered.

Still, it sucks that they're inconsistent with this. I didn't even know there was going to be a demo, but it will definitely help word of mouth.

 

[Regiruler]

How many stages are there? OP doesn't say.

 

[TDLink]

How many stages are there? OP doesn't say.

There are 19 stages

 

[V-Faction]

I believe the phrase should be, "Pick Blue Dome, or go home." That's my top pick for best looking stage.

 

[Platy]

people are speculating that the demo will only be up when it is past midnight on the ENTIRE usa

 

[El Odio]

Shame about no demo for NA tonight it seems. I was hoping to just get a little taste of it before my copy arrives later today. Oh well, waiting it is.

 

[Shun]

Japanese tier list for the game as of last week.

It's hella hard finding actual rankings since none of the Japanese fighting game BBS I go to care about and talk about Pokken. Only the Pokemon BBS cares enough to make rankings and talk about tech.

In any case this is a list as of last week which probably doesn't matter since it's outdated now that the Wii U console version is out with console exclusive characters and balances.

A + Pikachu
A Lucario Masked Pikachu

B + Lizardon Manyula Jukain Suicune
B Genga Kairiki Bursyamo Sirknight

C Chandala

Missing Mewtwos and Tairenar.

 

[OricWindstar]

Man this game feels weird. Not in a bad way, but it really is unlike anything I've played before. I'm having trouble adjusting to it, but looking forward to that "aha" moment.

 

[Rutger]

The 1v1 "experience" is a means to an end. Ideally, fighters should be, at their core, a competitive, multiplayer action game. Good action games make proper use of dynamic structuring, just look at any setpiece from a platinum game.

Fighting games and action games are different things. Pokken is not trying to be a "Platinum game that wants to be a fighting game", it's just a fighting game. Each player is given equal access to all the tools(characters) the game provides and they must test their training and knowledge against each other. Well, there's nothing stopping someone from trying to make a game with Platinum like setpieces fit that description, but that was not what the developers wanted Pokken to be.

Let me go back to the quote I bolded before.

3. They change the flow of gameplay, and having a dynamic flow over a monotonous flow is more often than not a good thing.

Well, the main problem here is assuming that a fighting game doesn't have a very dynamic flow to begin with. The reason I pointed this out as a problem is because the dynamic and well balanced flow between neutral/offense/defense would be interrupted by stage hazards, and for what reason, a scripted event that neither player had any control of?

Ultimately, the developers wanted Pokken to be about how well the player knows how to play their Pokemon, and how well they know their matchups, not about how well they know the stage. I'm not telling you that you have to like the decisions that lead to this, but it was not wrong for what their goal was, and there is no place for stage hazards in the game they've come up with.

 

[QisTopTier]

The 1v1 "experience" is a means to an end. Ideally, fighters should be, at their core, a competitive, multiplayer action game. Good action games make proper use of dynamic structuring, just look at any setpiece from a platinum game.

Just no, fighting games are more like an active chess match not a beat em up game

 

[Kebiinu]

Am I actually alone in wanting stage diversification?

A change in radius is hardly a change.

The stages have different requirements for getting synergy balls/crystals. Like the Regi stage drops a pickup right at the beginning, whereas the haunted house drops pickups over time...some stage drops are triggered once you perform a successful dodge.

So it's not just radius, which is also a big difference enough when you play. Range characters would obviously prefer larger stages, whereas smaller stages are suited for characters like Weavile and Macha my.

 

[SolicitorPirate]

The 1v1 "experience" is a means to an end. Ideally, fighters should be, at their core, a competitive, multiplayer action game. Good action games make proper use of dynamic structuring, just look at any setpiece from a platinum game.

This is a fundamental misunderstanding of what fighting games are.

And no, I'm not some super elitist FGC guy who competes. Even my scrub ass can see high level fighting play is just as much a battle of minds as it is one of execution.

 

[Neoxon]

I'll just leave this here.

 

[SolicitorPirate]

Japanese tier list for the game as of last week.

It's hella hard finding actual rankings since none of the Japanese fighting game BBS I go to care about and talk about Pokken. Only the Pokemon BBS cares enough to make rankings and talk about tech.

In any case this is a list as of last week which probably doesn't matter since it's outdated now that the Wii U console version is out with console exclusive characters and balances.

A + Pikachu
A Lucario Masked Pikachu

B + Lizardon Manyula Jukain Suicune
B Genga Kairiki Bursyamo Sirknight

C Chandala

Missing Mewtwos and Tairenar.

Man, seeing Gardevoir so low bums me out.

 

[RomanceDawn]

I've barely looked at this game at all and all I know is I really really want it! I used to dream about a game like this!

♫Every body was Pokken fighting!
Those kicks were literal lightning! ♫

 

[Kebiinu]

Man, seeing Gardevoir so low bums me out.

This list is outdated, and I've been maining Gardevoir. She's excellent, especially with her Calm Mind tech. I don't think you'll be disappointed.

 

[QisTopTier]

This list is outdated, and I've been maining Gardevoir. She's excellent, especially with her Calm Mind tech. I don't think you'll be disappointed.

The tier list in pokken is super close despite how it looks as well

 

[Shun]

This list is outdated, and I've been maining Gardevoir. She's excellent, especially with her Calm Mind tech. I don't think you'll be disappointed.

Yes like I said, this is from the arcade version which is all but obsolete now other than for Arcade players.

Will probably post a week 1 impression of rankings from the BBS, then after that a month in or so when there's an actual good idea.

It is also hard to find a consensus since the only people who talk about Pokken, only go on Pokemon BBS to discuss. No fighting game people talk about it or follow it heavily on their own BBS or twitter platforms. These rankings are by BBS consensus at the moment until there is an actual top standing group of players who give a shit.

 

[Yukinari]

So how does the Pokken controller feel? Im getting the game and controller together since the controller is pretty cheap.

 

[OricWindstar]

I've barely looked at this game at all and all I know is I really really want it! I used to dream about a game like this!

♫Every body was Pokken fighting!
Those kicks were literal lightning! ♫

Haha, knowing your character preference, I'm imaging Machamp is who you'd probably use.

 

[PreyingShark]

Yes like I said, this is from the arcade version which is all but obsolete now other than for Arcade players.

Will probably post a week 1 impression of rankings from the BBS, then after that a month in or so when there's an actual good idea.

It is also hard to find a consensus since the only people who talk about Pokken, only go on Pokemon BBS to discuss. No fighting game people talk about it or follow it heavily on their own BBS or twitter platforms. These rankings are by BBS consensus at the moment until there is an actual top standing group of players who give a shit.

There's a top player consensus that is basically

A Everybody but those in B
B Gardevoir Machamp Blaziken Gengar

There's only been a month-something since the big 2/9 patch so you can't really go more detailed than "These chars are notably weaker than the rest."

The top Pokken community is mostly on Twitter and LINE groups. That's probably why you had trouble finding things.

 

[Shun]

There's a top player consensus that is basically

A Everybody but those in B
B Gardevoir Machamp Blaziken Gengar

There's only been a month-something since the big 2/9 patch so you can't really go more detailed than "These chars are notably weaker than the rest."

The top Pokken community is mostly on Twitter and LINE groups. That's probably why you had trouble finding things.

Yeah the list i posted was on.

I check twitter but twitter is hard af to navigate unless you know who to follow or which group of people to follow already.

I use twitter and line for all my Guilty Gear/BlazBlue/Gundam ect news and I know a lot of the top players for that.

Pokken is harder cuz the player bases don't intersect much so I just have to rely on the BBS.

 

[daydream]

people need to stop worrying about tier lists, just play the character that appeals to you. there's also a great case to be made for being the formal underdog

 

[Trickshot]

Why do it?
1. If done right, it looks fucking cool
2. It promotes stages as actual content instead of a skin and music pack
3. They change the flow of gameplay, and having a dynamic flow over a monotonous flow is more often than not a good thing.
Pokken already has the synergy drops, so it's not like prioritizing certain spots is absent. This would just be an expansion of that concept.

The idea that terrain should influence gameplay seems to be completely toxic in fighting games, yet genres like shooters go and make it their identity.

And on zoning characters, it would depend on the hazard. The one I specifically suggested for Regi Ruins would be on the outside ring, which would incentivise the center more, thus making it easier for the close range character to get in melee distance.

Stuff like Dead or Alive, basically. The stages are dynamic and fun. Comboing into stage hazards is friggin awesome.

...Except those water and ice stages. Low kicks for days.

 

[Shun]

The top Pokken community is mostly on Twitter and LINE groups. That's probably why you had trouble finding things.

Edit: Also could you recommend some players to follow? I'm interested but I haven't put my feet deep in after trying the arcade release.

people need to stop worrying about tier lists, just play the character that appeals to you. there's also a great case to be made for being the formal underdog

The game is balanced. The reason why it is important to know and follow character rankings is for matchups. Especially character matchups if you care about following a meta game.

Also ranking lists are often misinterpreted as the bottom being complete garbage which is not the case in several games. BlazBlue and Guilty Gear for example has a broad list but most characters are competitive outside of the very bottom, which is one character, and the very very top, which is 5 characters with insane bs.

That is also the case with Pokken since the cast itself is quite viable.

I am only providing a framework to go by because since this is a competitive game, the meta and the matchups are going to be a focus of discussion and it is important to do so.

Character tiers and ranks haven't stopped people from playing lower ranked characters, I still play low rank characters in fighting games cause they're fun. It's really just for a point of reference to discuss.

 

[GuitarGuruu]

Played a bit tonight. Messed around with lucario but ended up trying Pikachu Libre and fell in love. Such a fun character. Looking forward to playing this more.

 

[PreyingShark]

Yeah the list i posted was on.

I check twitter but twitter is hard af to navigate unless you know who to follow or which group of people to follow already.

I use twitter and line for all my Guilty Gear/BlazBlue/Gundam ect news and I know a lot of the top players for that.

Pokken is harder cuz the player bases don't intersect much so I just have to rely on the BBS.

Yeah, it can be an issue. Here's a decent starting point:
https://twitter.com/buntan_pokken/following

^S5 Suicune that has gotten some recent tourney wins.

 

[Shun]

Yeah, it can be an issue. Here's a decent starting point:
https://twitter.com/buntan_pokken/following

^S5 Suicune that has gotten some recent tourney wins.

Thanks, looking forward to picking this up and following it a little after playing around with genga in december/january.

 

[RomanceDawn]

Haha, knowing your character preference, I'm imaging Machamp is who you'd probably use.

You got that right! The bigger and bulkier the better!

 

[crabhammer]

The 1v1 "experience" is a means to an end. Ideally, fighters should be, at their core, a competitive, multiplayer action game. Good action games make proper use of dynamic structuring, just look at any setpiece from a platinum game.

Do yourself a favor and peep some high level competitive fighting game play.

Correct inputs are only a fraction of the equations. Mind games. Reads. Predictions. All of these things are hampered by random stage hazards. Comparing fighters to shooters doesn't quite stack up here, as the dynamics of the genre are entirely different as well. Fighting games are one persons mind vs another. You wouldn't add stage hazard to chess, would you?

 

[Boss Doggie]

I need victory and lose animations!