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Pokkén Tournament |OT| King of Iron Tail Tournament

Thulius

Member
every other super is completely avoidable being hit by on reaction after super flash either blocking OR jumping. Mewtwo's is not. Which means you literally are helpless once he's in close. You jump? Wait til about to land super. You are blocking, super. Every other character the worst you have to fear generally is a grab though those hurt like hell too, they are not a potentially 395 damage move

Gengar's super is also a grab that's unavoidable if you're grounded during the flash, actually. Dealing with grab supers once they're in is a guess, just like dealing with normal grabs is a guess, just like dealing with strike supers is a guess.

Yeah, you can sit there blocking and if someone without a grab super throws their super out randomly you're safe. But if they walk up and grab you twice in a row you've probably taken nearly as much damage as you would've from a super and you still have to worry about super the next time. It's literally the exact same mixup, the risk/reward is just weighted towards the grab instead of the strike.

It also has significant startup before the flash; it's not as simple as "see someone blocking and super."
 

Regiruler

Member
every other super is completely avoidable being hit by on reaction after super flash either blocking OR jumping. Mewtwo's is not. Which means you literally are helpless once he's in close. You jump? Wait til about to land super. You are blocking, super. Every other character the worst you have to fear generally is a grab though those hurt like hell too, they are not a potentially 395 damage move

But non-grab supers can be combo'd into (with piercers or with enough attacks to simply break the guard). It's not like \guarding will keep you protected against a super.

I'm also fairly sure his meter takes as long or even longer than gengar to fill up. I also want to say that shadow drop does more damage based on experience, but I could be wrong on that.

For shadow drop, you literally just go in with any attack that jumps in the process, like pikachu's grab. I am not sure if this works against mewtwo's special as well.
Granted, Gengar has hypnosis so he does have some extra options in giving a window.
 

Dreavus

Member
Anyone have a list of the charge rates per character? I know Pikachu and Weavile are a few of the fastest and Mewtwo is one of the slowest.

It's really hard to deal with the fast charging ones. I had a Pikachu hit me into duel phase and a few other hits and he's already using synergy burst. I am thinking maybe he had his points dropped into synergy. At the higher ranks people just threaten you with their super and tend to grab or just attack you instead of going for the burst.
 
Anyone have a list of the charge rates per character? I know Pikachu and Weavile are a few of the fastest and Mewtwo is one of the slowest.

It's really hard to deal with the fast charging ones. I had a Pikachu hit me into duel phase and a few other hits and he's already using synergy burst. I am thinking maybe he had his points dropped into synergy. At the higher ranks people just threaten you with their super and tend to grab or just attack you instead of going for the burst.
I couldn't find a list. Instead I grabbed info from pokken.jp (though I used another source to clarify Suicune's)

Fast: Weavile, Pikachu, R.Pika, Blaziken
Normal: Charizard, Sceptile, Gardevoir, Lucario, Chandelure
Kinda slow: Machamp, Suicune
Slow: Gengar, Garchomp, Mewtwo

Nothing for Dark Mewtwo and Braixen, though I think common sense says that Dark Mewtwo's either "Fast" or "Very Fast"
 

Beats

Member
Hmm, didn't play so hot today in Ranked. I went from D3 to D1, but had 8 losses getting there. Lots of close games, but made some poor decisions at some points lol. : <

I tried the Quagsire assist which is pretty nice for chip damage, but I do lose a good "get off me" assist choosing that set. I think I can get around 200 chip damage from almost full screen with Gardevoir if I use it after a knockdown. It's not super great in Field Phase though since the opponent has more room to maneuver around it.
 
How does the game decide which attack has priority? Seems like when I do an A special attack vs say a Garchomp he always wins (Pika libre).

Also how many god damn leagues are there, how is it possible you become the league champion and there's another god damn league lol
 
How does the game decide which attack has priority? Seems like when I do an A special attack vs say a Garchomp he always wins (Pika libre).

Also how many god damn leagues are there, how is it possible you become the league champion and there's another god damn league lol

normal attacks beat out grabs, if your doing a command grab as Pika libre, Garchomp normal will beat it out

there is also
--5--
leagues but you dont need to do that last one as you unlock every thing once you have completed the
--4--
league
 
normal attacks beat out grabs, if your doing a command grab as Pika libre, Garchomp normal will beat it out

there is also
--5--
leagues but you dont need to do that last one as you unlock every thing once you have completed the
--4--
league

that's what I was curious about, I unlocked the last one and I was like "REALLY?"

I'll just get my pikachu libre to max level and head to online later.
 
Hmm, didn't play so hot today in Ranked. I went from D3 to D1, but had 8 losses getting there. Lots of close games, but made some poor decisions at some points lol. : <

I tried the Quagsire assist which is pretty nice for chip damage, but I do lose a good "get off me" assist choosing that set. I think I can get around 200 chip damage from almost full screen with Gardevoir if I use it after a knockdown. It's not super great in Field Phase though since the opponent has more room to maneuver around it.

D2+ seems to the first real jump in player quality. Before hitting D2, I was regularly getting 5+ win streaks and was probably winning 4 out of 5 of my matches. Now in D2, I've been wining just slightly more than half my matches and been denied a rank up twice now.
 

Beats

Member
"I went from D3 to D1 but had like 8 losses. HORRIBLE!"

Beats pls

> . <

D2+ seems to the first real jump in player quality. Before hitting D2, I was regularly getting 5+ win streaks and was probably winning 4 out of 5 of my matches. Now in D2, I've been wining just slightly more than half my matches and been denied a rank up twice now.

Yeah, the jump was unexpected. It seems like I'll have to step my game up. Some characters like Pika Libre give me a hard time lol.
 

PepperedHam

Member
Any advice for closing the gap against Sceptile in duel phase as Machamp? I'm having a super tough time cracking that one. Beat this guy's ass in the field phase but whenever it came down to duel phase I would just meltdown.
 

Dreavus

Member
I couldn't find a list. Instead I grabbed info from pokken.jp (though I used another source to clarify Suicune's)

Fast: Weavile, Pikachu, R.Pika, Blaziken
Normal: Charizard, Sceptile, Gardevoir, Lucario, Chandelure
Kinda slow: Machamp, Suicune
Slow: Gengar, Garchomp, Mewtwo

Nothing for Dark Mewtwo and Braixen, though I think common sense says that Dark Mewtwo's either "Fast" or "Very Fast"

Thanks. Didn't realize Blaziken charged so fast too.
 
Has anyone had problems with inputs coming out wrong when playing online? My Seismic Toss (Up A) is coming out as Flamethrower (A) like 90% of the time online now, but it works fine offline. This just started like 2 days ago too.
 
Has anyone had problems with inputs coming out wrong when playing online? My Seismic Toss (Up A) is coming out as Flamethrower (A) like 90% of the time online now, but it works fine offline. This just started like 2 days ago too.

Same thing has happened to me a few times in some of my laggier matches
 

SalvaPot

Member
I have to say ranked is more enjoyable than friendly, friendly is chock full of spammers that get mad when they can't hit and disconnect the game.

Currently at D3, this game is a lot of fun. Thankfully I have not matched with lots of Chandelures, that match-up is brutal to me.
 

NEO0MJ

Member
I play Suicune and haven't even really tried Garchomp I love Suicune so fucking much he's my husbando and yes husbando fuck "genderless" HE'S MY HUSBANDO DAMMIT

Then why isn't he you avatar :p

Gengar's super is also a grab that's unavoidable if you're grounded during the flash, actually. Dealing with grab supers once they're in is a guess, just like dealing with normal grabs is a guess, just like dealing with strike supers is a guess.

I feel Mewtwo's grab is easier to land, personally. Though Gengar has a guaranteed combo for his.

To be fair, if you ask for a rematch and the other person declines, it annoyingly kicks you back to the online menu, meaning you need to choose your character and support again before getting back to matchmaking. After having this happened a few times, I tended to go down to "next opponent" win or lose, so it can start searching right away.

I still feel that's rude. Yesterday I was lucky to get a lot of rematches against a Sceptile player. I had the edge at first but he figured me out later and sent me on a losing streak. Made me realize also just how slow Gengar and Garchomp build synergy.
 

El Odio

Banned
I have to say ranked is more enjoyable than friendly, friendly is chock full of spammers that get mad when they can't hit and disconnect the game.

Currently at D3, this game is a lot of fun. Thankfully I have not matched with lots of Chandelures, that match-up is brutal to me.
I never managed to encounter any quitters in either mode. Out of curiosity are you able to pause and quit in a match or does it straight up require shutting the system off?
 
Yo for all those Gardevoir players out there Moonblast is practically broken when you are in burst mode. It hits pretty much everything on the screen that isn't in front of you and no one expects it because no one uses it. Even in normal mode it's alright since it's the only grounded projectile that hits the full screen instantly that she has. Seriously, it's pretty darn good. Also using magical leaf against Garchomp is basically asking to get bodied, but you probably already knew that.
 

MGrant

Member
Yo for all those Gardevoir players out there Moonblast is practically broken when you are in burst mode. It hits pretty much everything on the screen that isn't in front of you and no one expects it because no one uses it. Even in normal mode it's alright since it's the only grounded projectile that hits the full screen instantly that she has. Seriously, it's pretty darn good. Also using magical leaf against Garchomp is basically asking to get bodied, but you probably already knew that.

Yeah it's good. I changed L Trigger to be Pokemon Attack specifically so I could charge it while still having easy access to B, X, and Y.

EDIT: Also, it continues to charge during transitions like burst mode/super flashes or phase changes, so you can have a fully charged moonblast to launch at the conclusion of the short cutscene.
 

emb

Member
I feel Mewtwo's grab is easier to land, personally. Though Gengar has a guaranteed combo for his.
Can you elaborate? This seems like something I want to know.

Then again, landing the grab supers raw is so feasible, I'm not 100% sure it's worth comboing into it and getting the scaling.
 

NEO0MJ

Member
Can you elaborate? This seems like something I want to know.

Then again, landing the grab supers raw is so feasible, I'm not 100% sure it's worth comboing into it and getting the scaling.

Nothing fancy, I just meant hypnosis to super.
 
tumblr_o4ry4fexr01sfyslno1_540.png
.
 

emb

Member
Yeah once I get to level 100 I'll head online. Is it even a necessity I wonder I'm at 80ish right now and the grind is turning me off from playing the game
The skill level stuff doesn't really matter. As far as I can tell it barely has an effect. Even still, playing online builds your level.

The only reason to stick to the grind is to unlock assists, two characters, and cheer types.
 

NEO0MJ

Member
Ahhh. I've never thought of that; hidden in plain sight lol. That's good to keep in mind for jump happy players.

It was actually among the in-game combo challenges, lol. Sometimes it feels like you're given inefficient/situational combos but it's still good to check them out in order to get a better idea on what moves can be chained.

Game AI? I've gotten a perfect in almost every battle with Gardevoir other than in green league when I was learning her. The AI isn't super great in this game.

Projectiles are super effective against game AI.
 

Gurrry

Member
Started with Blaziken, but I picked up Machamp and I think hes my main now. His buttons just work better for me. Blaziken is bad ass and can style on people with some awesome combos, but i also find myself losing alot with him. Machamp just fits my playstyle more.

Any advice for closing the gap against Sceptile in duel phase as Machamp? I'm having a super tough time cracking that one. Beat this guy's ass in the field phase but whenever it came down to duel phase I would just meltdown.

If youre getting spammed out, use the counter attack dash cancel to get in.

PS - fuck mewtwo and garchomp
 

emb

Member
It was actually among the in-game combo challenges, lol. Sometimes it feels like you're given inefficient/situational combos but it's still good to check them out in order to get a better idea on what moves can be chained.
Ah, haha. I went through 'em, but it feels like it's been so long now. A whole week o_o I think I really kinda tuned out all the Mega sections... when I get burst I'll admit I just kinda throw moves out until I think they'll fall into super <.<

Still shoulda been apparent, given that hypnosis into normal grab is pretty much the most used Gengar thing.
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
as a pika libre player, the only pokemon who continuously gives me a hard time is charizard. Fuck that belly bump.

As a Charizard player the only thing to ever give me issues is a normal Pikachu, which is weird but there it is.

Can I just say I absolutely love the Y-combo into seismic toss? It just wrecks face.
 

Regiruler

Member
Has anyone had problems with inputs coming out wrong when playing online? My Seismic Toss (Up A) is coming out as Flamethrower (A) like 90% of the time online now, but it works fine offline. This just started like 2 days ago too.
My forward-Ys sometime get read as up-Ys. I assumed it was just an issue with my d-pad.
 

Regiruler

Member
I imagine it's due to lag. It has happened to me a few times.
Input in the game is weird. The input for sceptile's dragonbreath needs to be input rapidly, but the actual move doesn't show up until a second later.

It reminds me of Castlevania Judgement where instead of moves being as you pressed them and ignoring presses while you were in something that couldn't be canceled, it simply queued your button presses, which took some getting used to.
 

DangerMan

Banned
Input in the game is weird. The input for sceptile's dragonbreath needs to be input rapidly, but the actual move doesn't show up until a second later.

It reminds me of Castlevania Judgement where instead of moves being as you pressed them and ignoring presses while you were in something that couldn't be canceled, it simply queued your button presses, which took some getting used to.

Yea, I think I noticed that too, it really feels like it is queueing the inputs. I get the same thing in smash sometimes, almost makes me wonder if that is how the wii u handles input at a system level

EDIT: Kinda like how notifications on PS4 are in a queue so if you don't have enough room for a download and it keeps retrying then the notifications are being added to the queue faster than the notifications are being displayed and when you eventually go and stop the download from retrying there is still tons of notifications queued that will be popping up on the screen for ages

EDIT2: Unrelated to Pokken at this point but the notifications queue on PS4 should maybe have something that checks if the notification it is trying to add to the queue is already in the queue then don't add it again. I dunno, this might fix the issue mentioned in my first edit

EDIT3: But then the check before adding to the notification queue might end up actually making a noticeable drop in system performance, I dunno, ignore me

EDIT4: Would using a HashSet (constant lookup time) be better than a queue? Sets don't allow duplicates and can still be used in FIFO manner like a queue. Am I completely wrong here?

EDIT5: Edit4 was related to ps4 notification queue and not pokken input queue, also it looks like in C++ an unordered_set would be what to use and not a hashset? unordered_set has constant lookup and can be used fifo?

EDIT6: unordered_sets probably cant be used fifo without doing something reducing performance and breaking constant lookup, I don't know what I am saying at all
 

emb

Member
Yea, I think I noticed that too, it really feels like it is queueing the inputs. I get the same thing in smash sometimes, almost makes me wonder if that is how the wii u handles input at a system level

EDIT: Kinda like how notifications on PS4 are in a queue so if you don't have enough room for a download and it keeps retrying then the notifications are being added to the queue faster than the notifications are being displayed and when you eventually go and stop the download from retrying there is still tons of notifications queued that will be popping up on the screen for ages

EDIT2: Unrelated to Pokken at this point but the notifications queue on PS4 should maybe have something that checks if the notification it is trying to add to the queue is already in the queue then don't add it again. I dunno, this might fix the issue mentioned in my first edit

EDIT3: But then the check before adding to the notification queue might end up actually making a noticeable drop in system performance, I dunno, ignore me

EDIT4: Would using a HashSet (constant lookup time) be better than a queue? Sets don't allow duplicates and can still be used in FIFO manner like a queue. Am I completely wrong here?

EDIT5: Edit4 was related to ps4 notification queue and not pokken input queue, also it looks like in C++ an unordered_set would be what to use and not a hashset? unordered_set has constant lookup and can be used fifo?

EDIT6: unordered_sets probably cant be used fifo without doing something reducing performance and breaking constant lookup, I don't know what I am saying at all
Heh, I enjoyed watching this post unfold. Doubt it would be a big enough performance hit to matter in any practical situation.

Afaik the way it would work in Pokken, Smash, probably other newer input-lenient sorts of fighters, is that you'd have a small buffer window; so inputs from however many frames ago would be kept, see if you can do them next chance if they're still in the buffer. You'd probably only have a couple hundred inputs queued up, so constant vs linear time probably wouldn't matter even when trying to maintain 60 fps.

But I can't say I know any specifics, or remember enough about the theory behind it to add anything useful.
 

DangerMan

Banned
Heh, I enjoyed watching this post unfold. Doubt it would be a big enough performance hit to matter in any practical situation.

Afaik the way it would work in Pokken, Smash, probably other newer input lenient sorts of fighters, is that you'd have a small buffer window; so inputs from however many frames ago would be kept, see if you can do them next chance if they're still in the buffer. You'd probably only have a couple hundred inputs queued up, so constant vs linear time probably wouldn't matter even when trying to maintain 60 fps.

But I can't say I know any specifics, or remember enough about the theory behind it to add anything useful.

Nice, I feel like this post was helpful and useful :D
 
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