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PoliGAF 2012 Community Thread |OT2| This thread title is now under military control

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C

Clevinger

Member
Kosmo said:
Ruling was 6-3, FYI

"The court reinforces that individuals cant simply refuse to pay the tax and not comply with the mandate."
Click to expand...

Scotusblog:

"Apologies - you can't refuse to pay the tax; typo. The only effect of not complying with the mandate is that you pay the tax."
 
C

codhand

Member
Listening to Glenn Beck, feels good man. He is hating hard on Roberts and Bush. :)

"This destroys George Bush's legacy!" "George Bush was a Progressive!!!"
 
D

Dorpheus

Neo Member
So I was woken up by my phone this morning. The CNN app beeped loudly, and informed me that the individual mandate had been struck down.

I was severely disappointed, and tried to fall back asleep.

Then it woke me up again and told me it had been upheld. Thanks, CNN.

Anyways, glad to see this upheld. It may not be single payer, but I'm hoping that it works out for the best.
 
D

Dr. Pangloss

Member
eznark said:
My healthcare gonna get cheaper is the new Obama gonna pay my mortgage.
Click to expand...

AlteredBeast said:
LOL! Unless you have some crazy preexisting conditions that is not going to happen. Healthcare will just increase at a slower rate, not get cheaper for no reason.
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I think he is talking about the individual market. It has been shown that the ACA lowers the costs for individuals but not people group in an employer plan. Also he could be getting subsidized as well.
 
K

Kosmo

Banned
Consider it settled, but a question on the powers of the court: Is the Supreme Court allowed to change the wording of legislation to make it constitutional? I don't think there was any question that Congress could have passed the mandate as a tax, but it was passed as a penalty under the Commerce Clause, the President vehemently denied it was a tax, and as such, is the Court technically given this power?

Let's say a piece of legislation comes up and a senator from Alaska attaches a provision that any American who does not visit Alaska and purchase a park pass in a given year must pay a $10 penalty (or whatever the cost of the pass is). Is that now constitutional?
 
T

Tim-E

Member
lol @ the people thinking that Romney wants to make an issue of this. I'm sure Obama would love to have a conversation about it, considering it's based on Romney's implementation of it. Romney wants to make sound bites about getting rid of the ACA, but in reality when people talk about it they're just going to be reminded that it was his plan a few years ago.
 
I

Invisible_Insane

Member
Kosmo said:
Consider it settled, but a question on the powers of the court: Is the Supreme Court allowed to change the wording of legislation to make it constitutional? I don't think there was any question that Congress could have passed the mandate as a tax, but it was passed as a penalty under the Commerce Clause, the President vehemently denied it was a tax, and as such, is the Court technically given this power?

Let's say a piece of legislation comes up and a senator from Alaska attaches a provision that any American who does not visit Alaska and purchase a park pass in a given year must pay a $10 penalty (or whatever the cost of the pass is). Is that now constitutional?
Click to expand...
I think he's experiencing a psychotic break from reality.

Ride it out, buddy.
 
T

Tim-E

Member
Prediction: This changes absolutely nothing in the presidential race. After people stop talking about it in a few days, things will go on just as they have been.
 
A

Aaron Strife

Banned
Tim-E said:
Prediction: This changes absolutely nothing in the presidential race. After people stop talking about it in a few days, things will go on just as they have been.
Click to expand...
I think it might give ACA a boost in favorability. Not make it popular, but just neutralize it as an issue against Obama.
 
C

Chumly

Member
Kosmo said:
This is probably why Roberts went to the other side. He might have been for just getting rid of the mandate and upholding the rest.
Click to expand...
Hilarious because of Scalia, thomas driving the radical right wing actually probably pushed Roberts over to the other side.
 
R

RoninChaos

Member
Tim-E said:
lol @ the people thinking that Romney wants to make an issue of this. I'm sure Obama would love to have a conversation about it, considering it's based on Romney's implementation of it. Romney wants to make sound bites about getting rid of the ACA, but in reality when people talk about it they're just going to be reminded that it was his plan a few years ago.
Click to expand...

Yeah, Obama seems to be trolling the Republicans to an extent. The Health Care law has Romneycare's DNA in it, and what he's doing with immigration has Rubio's hand prints on it too. It's amazing to see these people go "We want this" and then Obama does just that and they're like "NO FUCK IT. THIS IS BULLSHIT. WE DIDN'T WANT THIS"
 
K

Krauser Kat

Member
so other doubting my HC will get cheaper. Both me and wife work for companies to small to offer healthcare. So we have to buy our own. Being in a pool should at least get us better coverage for the same cost. 10k deductible is rubbish.
 
R

RBH

Member
Because the mandate survives, the Court did not need to decide what other parts of the statute were constitutional, except for a provision that required states to comply with new eligibility requirements for Medicaid or risk losing their funding. On that question, the Court held that the provision is constitutional as long as states would only lose new funds if they didn't comply with the new requirements, rather than all of their funding.
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Interested in seeing the ramifications of this, if any.
 
T

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
Krauser Kat said:
so other doubting my HC will get cheaper. Both me and wife work for companies to small to offer healthcare. So we have to buy our own. Being in a pool should at least get us better coverage for the same cost. 10k deductible is rubbish.
Click to expand...

That's what my parents are hoping, they're both self employed
 
W

worldrunover

Member
Kosmo said:
This is probably why Roberts went to the other side. He might have been for just getting rid of the mandate and upholding the rest.
Click to expand...

If that's the case couldn't he have voted against just the mandate? There were four other votes to uphold the rest of the law.
 
T

ToxicAdam

Member
How about Roberts didn't think it was unconstitutional? Is that radical idea a possibility instead of assigning him all this bizarre motivations to justify your previous hate for the man?
 
K

Kosmo

Banned
Tim-E said:
Prediction: This changes absolutely nothing in the presidential race. After people stop talking about it in a few days, things will go on just as they have been.
Click to expand...

Pretty much this. Reaction around my office (a health insurer) is pretty much "Well, at least all the work we did the last couple years wasn't in vain." Then again, we're not for profit, community rate and don't deny people for pre-existing conditions.
 
F

Frank the Great

Banned
Kosmo said:
Consider it settled, but a question on the powers of the court: Is the Supreme Court allowed to change the wording of legislation to make it constitutional? I don't think there was any question that Congress could have passed the mandate as a tax, but it was passed as a penalty under the Commerce Clause, the President vehemently denied it was a tax, and as such, is the Court technically given this power?

Let's say a piece of legislation comes up and a senator from Alaska attaches a provision that any American who does not visit Alaska and purchase a park pass in a given year must pay a $10 penalty (or whatever the cost of the pass is). Is that now constitutional?
Click to expand...

it was already worded as a tax. haven't you read the legislation that you have argued about so much?

getting a tax break for having insurance is as constitutional as getting a tax break for having children or making mortgage payments.

people in my health law class were confused as to how it could possibly be unconstitutional as a tax, without throwing out all other kinds of tax breaks. the only real issue was commerce clause, which isn't even really needed.
 
D

DasRaven

Member
Kosmo said:
Pretty much this. Reaction around my office (a health insurer) is pretty much "Well, at least all the work we did the last couple years wasn't in vain." Then again, we're not for profit, community rate and don't deny people for pre-existing conditions.
Click to expand...

My wife works for one of the biggest for-profits and she says their feeling is basically the same.
 
E

eznark

Banned
In a room with a bunch of small business owners. They went ballistic like ten minutes ago (apparently breaking news emails are slow as fuuuck) and we had to call an hour break.

I wonder how many of them will come back. My guess is not many.
 
A

AlteredBeast

Fork 'em, Sparky!
I think the funniest thing about all of this is that the only reason there was all this brouhaha is that Congress refused to call this a tax, the solicitor general and the president, as well. The wording didn't include tax, etc.

but the "activist court" (LOL) has said, "Look, I know you were playing politics here, but this thing is obviously a tax, don't be daft"
 
R

RoninChaos

Member
I work for a company that deals with benefits for various companies. We feel the same too. All the stuff we've done to help companies comply with the new law wasn't wasted. Good to hear.
 
E

eznark

Banned
AlteredBeast said:
I think the funniest thing about all of this is that the only reason there was all this brouhaha is that Congress refused to call this a tax, the solicitor general and the president, as well. The wording didn't include tax, etc.

but the "activist court" (LOL) has said, "Look, I know you were playing politics here, but this thing is obviously a tax, don't be daft"
Click to expand...
.
 
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