Yesterday was reaction to the dawn of socialism. Today is reaction to the commies finally being brought to justice (Holder).
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PoliGAF 2012 Community Thread |OT2| This thread title is now under military control
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Yesterday was reaction to the dawn of socialism. Today is reaction to the commies finally being brought to justice (Holder).
Byakuya769
Member
Better stated.
Particle Physicist
between a quark and a baryon
Haha, true.
Isn't he planning on doing that? I thought I remember reading an article about it.
Good lord the GOP is spiraling.
Do they really think the "ITS A TAX" is going to gain any traction?
I mean obviously it will amongst their legions of brainwashed, repeat the talking points fans. But among the indies is it going to charge them up with a message of "kill healthcare"?
Polls in the last few weeks showed the gen population is tired of it and was just waiting for the ruling, if the court said OK then the gen pop would move on.
Do they really think the "ITS A TAX" is going to gain any traction?
I mean obviously it will amongst their legions of brainwashed, repeat the talking points fans. But among the indies is it going to charge them up with a message of "kill healthcare"?
Polls in the last few weeks showed the gen population is tired of it and was just waiting for the ruling, if the court said OK then the gen pop would move on.
What else do they have?
It's idiotic to assign any kind of groupthink to the stock market on a given day. That was Byakuya's point.
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No writer could sit down and create a worse (legitimate) candidate for 2012 than Mitt Romney. Every possible weakness that Obama has cannot be exploited by Romney.
This is why politics is stupid. Republicans have known the exact mechanism of the mandate for years now. The Supreme Court did not discover what the mandate "actually" does, and a less pleasing label does not improve or degrade the policy. We need to get past taxophobia in this country or one day the government will drown in a bathtub and people will wonder where all those neat programs like Medicare went.
el retorno
Member
He clearly states that in his opinion. I think the whole thing reeks of him not liking the law but his opinion is that the court shouldn't be trying to overrule laws easily. They should all they can in possible readings until it comes to a clear unconsitutional portion.
He has. He posted a Obamacare upheld image in his facebook. He's playing up the "Obama Cares"
The Librarian
Banned
lol
The only health care mandate they can embrace are transvaginal probes for women, OMalley said Friday during a press call.
The only health care mandate they can embrace are transvaginal probes for women, OMalley said Friday during a press call.
They started embracing the Obamacare name early on.
https://store.barackobama.com/featured-15/obamacare-tee.html
https://store.barackobama.com/featured-15/obamacare-tee.html
Love this analysis. Ndamukung Suh will win MVP.
Totally. As I've maintained, the political consequences are probably negligible; of course, that's the aspect on which most have focused. Notwithstanding, the actual effect on society is profound. The benefits transcend health care policy. The consequences for social and economic policy are considerable. And although the legislation is imperfect, it's an improvement over the status quo. Yes. A big fucking deal.
Duane Cunningham
Member
I wonder what it originally said? Whoever made the graphic clearly said "we the people are..." something else. Then somebody else changed it to say "100% fed up" in a different font. Maybe it said "pissed off" or something and somebody didn't want to use curse words?
The Librarian
Banned
Re: Bobby Jindal threatening not to comply with the ACA:
Here's an idea, Jinny. If you think the law is so bad, and if you think your state can do better, then show us. Go big like Shumlin and show us what you want to do. We'll see the results and compare, if not from 2014 (the date Obama wants to move it to), then from 2017 and beyond.
Here's an idea, Jinny. If you think the law is so bad, and if you think your state can do better, then show us. Go big like Shumlin and show us what you want to do. We'll see the results and compare, if not from 2014 (the date Obama wants to move it to), then from 2017 and beyond.
el retorno
Member
The only thing it seems to limit is compelling action. Which until ACA hadn't really been tried. I don't really know what other thing was gonna be compelled in that way. Though it does seem you can just call it a tax and its good.
Promise?
Ouch.
I think he's talking a bit of shit right now. The ACA specifically lays out that if a state does not set up the exchange and associated regulations, the federal government will step in and do it for them. There was a section of the law that details the conditions to make that happen. Per TPM:
The only part he can block is the Medicaid expansion. Jindal sees it as a win-win: he gets credit from Republican voters for refusing to comply while also getting the exchanges set up. I see you know this (the fed setting them up) but I think Jindal is just talking big, knowing he can't stop implementation.
Aaron Strife
Banned
Preview of 2016 presidential debates
Bobby Jindal: "As governor of Louisiana, I rejected Obamacare and my state flourished as a result."
Martin O'Malley: "Bullshit, half of your state lacks coverage and then Obama had to step in and cover your ass. Unlike in Maryland where we were able to set up our own single-payer program with Obama's help and now we're like liberal utopia."
(O'Malley wins every state including Louisiana and wins so hard he wins two terms by default)
I hope the Administration do the right thing and jump into this argument by calling it a "freeloader/deadbeat tax." Then every time the GOP yells about the supposed "massive tax increase," they'll be defending parasites.
Thanks for the great laugh this morning. That was great!
Currently, Governor of Maryland and potential DEM POTUS candidate for 2016.
CharlieDigital
Banned
His statement stands, however; markets generally prefer certainty.
I wouldn't call the last 3 years a period of 'certainty', yet the markets have all roared back. It's such a nebulous term it means almost nothing. Especially in such small samples.
Aaron Strife
Banned
whee
Clearly, Americans are behind Obama on healthcare reform.
"Certainty" has become this general term for "what my side wants" these days. Though, I see it more often expressed as the "confidence" fairy. We just need the confidence to succeed! Or, a stronger economy. One of those.
It's sad that a governor would willfully hurt the citizens of his state.
It's simple, we kill the Norquist.
But, seriously, that guy is a large part of the problem... not nearly all of it, but a part
Guileless
Temp Banned for Remedial Purposes
This decision also gives the Roberts wing political cover for a long time with regard to other highly politicized cases, e.g. gay marriage.
This.
All it says is that the government can achieve any regulatory goals it desires through taxation... which is in line with prior precedent.
Eliminating entire industries or work practices or individual practices by introducing monetary disincentives (carbon tax, tax on bookies, parking tickets, audits such as health inspectors for restaurants or quizzing contractors on labor charging practices... the list goes on)? Perfectly constitutional.
It's the commerce clause combined with the congressoinal ability to tax, essentially. Most courts from the last 100 years would probably uphold the mandate under the commerce clause alone I think, though. My guess is that if insurance companies could sell across state lines the commerce argument would hold up 6-3 or 7-2 instead of being a split issue. This is a really conservative court, though, and conservatives HATE the commerce clause.
Congress has compelled individuals to act before: the miltia acts of 1792. The relief of Sick and Disabled Seamen act in 1798 also imposed a health insurance mandate, but only on seamen.
whatever, it's a pretty unique case I guess since the concept of universal health care didn't really come up anywhere in the world until a few decades after the civil war ended, IIRC, so the whole political philosophy of health services and related expenses is still kind of in its infancy, compared to other issues, and I doubt it ever was even considered during the constitution's penmanship (but that's what the 9th amendment is kinda there for). I'm sure that over time, court opinions on this matter will evolve. I don't consider this ruling a referendum on the commerce clause or anything like that. This kind of constitutional question wouldn't come up for debate for anything that wasn't health related, and it only really comes up for health issues because we're 70 years behind the rest of the world on pondering the question of whether or not accessible and affordable health care should be a right
whee
Clearly,Americanspolling noise is behind Obama on healthcare reform.
.
Carcetti in The Wire.
LOL, Obama should just be writing all this stuff down for the debates. If Romney got physically mad at Newt and Perry for teasing and prodding him over his past he is going to hulk out on Obama
The Obama campaign should just take this video and splice it with the GOP saying they are outraged its a tax and run it for a few months. Basically hammer home everyone on earth knew it was a tax except the people who refused to acknowledge reality
Sirpopopop
Member
I'm pretty sure the Court will uphold the 9th Circuit Gay Marriage ruling.
I just can't see them ruling against Olsen & Boies.
CharlieDigital
Banned
Certainty is not associated with a "side"; it is a state of generally understood cause-effect relationships.
The fact that markets prefer certainty is pretty much a given because people prefer certainty and the market is driven by people, at the end of the day. If I am certain in security of my job and future growth, I feel more free to spend. If a corporation is certain in their growth, they will hire more people.
If you want to argue an asinine position, go for it.
AlteredBeast
Fork 'em, Sparky!
Like the Obama administration and all of the left side of Congress?
Wiretapping: a sure way to get Americans interested. Well played, Issa.
http://www.rollcall.com/news/darrel...p_applications_in_congressional-215828-1.html
http://www.rollcall.com/news/darrel...p_applications_in_congressional-215828-1.html
You aren't a moron. The markets are up because of the eurozone deal, not obamacare certainty. Even with the court ruling there is still plenty of uncertainty surrounding the program in terms of implementation and execution. The key, economically impactful elements are still more than a year off.
Dude, just stop.
Suikoguy
I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
That must be the little known "Election Reduction Act of 1988".
Enacted to reduce the cost of elections, upon winning a super-majority (75%) of the delegates, a president is automatically given 2 terms. This was enacted due to the expected permanent Republican Majority, and was not expected to be used by O'Malley.
Nice data to back up the bolded. That's what 'facts' are .. right?
How could I argue an asinine position when you are already there with your feet firmly planted? I'm not the one trying to assign a permanent value to what "certainty" means. It's about as tangible a concept as karma.
Now, go light some incense and tell me what it means.
Aaron Strife
Banned
Also known as the Ronald Reagan is Jesus Act.
House Passes Transportation Bill
http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entries/house-passes-transportation-bill
The Best Right-Wing Reactions To John Roberts Swing Vote
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/06/roberts-supreme-court-right-wing.php?ref=fpa
cartoon_soldier
Member
Good news.
el retorno
Member
I think the miltia act might get struck down but that also might fall under conscription or the military power of the federal government. Also the Seamen think would fall under comerce because they're already engaged in commerce. The problem with this is that it forced people that weren't in commerce into commerce which didn't fall under the regulation powers. And he didn't by everyone is in the health care market.
To be fair I'm kind of happy it turned out this way. I always liked the tax reason more than an commerce clause.
He did put it limit. He set the precendt that the commerce clause can't compel action. Just regulate preexisting action which was the assumption of pretty much everything before this. I can't see any social welfare programs that would ever be affected.
He didn't touch any preexisting commerce clause clarifications though. For example regulating intrastate commerce if it affects interstate.
I can't see roberts going against their reasoning. Or Kennedy He doesn't strike me as a cultural conservative.
Scalia though will do some mental gymnastics and talk about history and what the people want and have voted for or some crap like that.
Considering the privileges and immunities clause and the fact that you can use health insurance while out of state, couldn't you call it commerce, though?
Again, I think the problem is that we're still wrestling with the idea of whether or not health care is a right. And even if we think it is, the way we make it accessible and affordable is through private insurance under the system we've set up. So the insurance kind of goes hand in hand with the care, but I don't think anyone would say insurance is a right, but it's how we've set up our system involving health care, which I think we all agree is a right, since you WILL be treated if you show up in the ER.
That's what I mean when I say this is a very unique case. I'm not saying the commerce clause on it's own allows Congress to do anything it wants, but when you consider it in the context of other consitutional provisions about tax authority, raising armies, protecting individual rights, etc, that there's a billion different angles you can discuss any regulatory action in terms of constitutionality, and, historically, it's all gone under the umbrella of Commerce because there are very few things that are guaranteed to be completely contained within the state in usage and acquisition.
Good to see that my lobbying kind of sort of paid off...maybe (the student loans part).
$109B in stimulus to the hard-hit construction sector whether the GOP wants to call it that or not AND the avoidance of a new economic drag from student loan rates.
DOOMED!
el retorno
Member
Except in the constitution isn't not a right (neither is education)
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