AlteredBeast
Fork 'em, Sparky!
David Axelrod is a tool. Can't stand the guy.
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PoliGAF 2012 Community Thread
- Thread starter AlteredBeast
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David Axelrod is a tool. Can't stand the guy.
But you know what AB, I feel like you and like minded individuals have to own it. I think there are to many people who say "I am a republican but..." Because they have a particular position on somethingl (whether that is gay marraige or abortion of what ever else). I find it odd that someone would stick with a party or over one issue when on a larger range of issues you have nothing in common with the platform.
Own your point of view and be willing to admit the party abounded you and you will find yourself a lot less at ease with what ever you label yourself.
I am not saying call yourself a democrat (I don't even do that) but its probably time to stop calling yourself a conservative when that segment has abandoned rationality in most areas of thought beyond one or two you align with. There are plenty of liberals who lothe the idea of abortion, many just happen to think that it should still be a safe, accessible and legal option that someone can pursue.
Edit: I just mean if you have to say you are "embarrassed" to identify with a group, not because of a mistake, but because of basic tenants of their platform, it's time to admit that you have nothing to be embarrassed about, because they abandoned you.
Own your point of view and be willing to admit the party abounded you and you will find yourself a lot less at ease with what ever you label yourself.
I am not saying call yourself a democrat (I don't even do that) but its probably time to stop calling yourself a conservative when that segment has abandoned rationality in most areas of thought beyond one or two you align with. There are plenty of liberals who lothe the idea of abortion, many just happen to think that it should still be a safe, accessible and legal option that someone can pursue.
Edit: I just mean if you have to say you are "embarrassed" to identify with a group, not because of a mistake, but because of basic tenants of their platform, it's time to admit that you have nothing to be embarrassed about, because they abandoned you.
AlteredBeast
Fork 'em, Sparky!
What's the point? Eye for an eye has never been an effective means of controlling violent or otherwise heinous crimes, especially those committed in the heat of passion. These are evil, disturbed, seriously damaged individuals that can never reenter society, but by killing these people, it is we that have blood on our hands, not just them. Put them in maximum security, or specialized wings of jail. Educate them and let them be parts of at least a jail society so that they might learn remorse and accomplish ways to atone, even in a small part for their actions. We aren't even talking about the exorbitant cost associated with putting a person to death, which is in itself a strange fact, but it is worth mentioning.
AlteredBeast
Fork 'em, Sparky!
I am conservative, though. There is no label for me that is more accurate. I am not a big c Conservative, though. Maybe that faction of the voting bloc will come back some day and push for fiscal sanity without draining the infrastructure, killing the jobs of millions of vital local and federal government workers and demonizing those who are in poverty (many of which then turn to vote for things against their own interests), and stop legislating people's bedrooms, while trying their best to involve themselves in the business of countries all over the world that can either a)take care of themselves, or b) have enemies in lands far closer that can fight against them, not us.
I know for a fact that next election cycle, I will be registered as an Independent, and will continue to do so until the Republican party clears bigotry and ignorance from its national platforms and leadership.
He owned the fuck out of that Romney advisor though. Dems need to fight back on this false equivalency being peddled by the GOP
And I don't want you to feel like I am singling you out. I have friends that were the same way, it has to be a frustrating position and I respect it.
Maybe "owning it" in your case is less about admitting you are something else than it is more about taking conservatism back.
Be loud and prolific. I would much rather have you as the alternative when my "team" eventually loses a round than what is currently available
AlteredBeast
Fork 'em, Sparky!
sorry for dominating much of this page, but I find it interesting that people like ToxicAdam and I recognize how bad the party has screwed up, leaving us feeling less than enthusiastic about voting for the lesser of two evils or not at all, while people like Kosmo (who absolutely MUST be a viral GOP/DNC marketer that is bad/amazing at his job) or Bulbo (who I don't even know if he believes a lot of the stuff he posts) hang on for dear life while the party pulls up embarrassing platform, posiiton, and bill after another.
Ignorance and apathy are the biggest killers of futures and lives in this country and it is one reason why I want to eventually teach history or civics on the high school/college level. I feel like, if you can reach kids while they are impressionable, at least they will have a chance. This is of course well after I have actually made money since being a teacher is apparently not a profession worth meriting a decent living wage.
That is what I attempt, but the amount of willful ignorance is hard to break through. Facts and statistics mean nothing to someone who has already decided you are wrong. I am eventually going to run for some low level public office and I plan to campaign the Rick Perry/Obama way with actually going out and talking with voters on a personal level, explaining why issues are important and why they will eventually decide to vote against me since I am going to scare the crap out of them by going against the grain.
Ignorance and apathy are the biggest killers of futures and lives in this country and it is one reason why I want to eventually teach history or civics on the high school/college level. I feel like, if you can reach kids while they are impressionable, at least they will have a chance. This is of course well after I have actually made money since being a teacher is apparently not a profession worth meriting a decent living wage.
Be loud and prolific. I would much rather have you as the alternative when my "team" eventually loses a round than what is currently available
That is what I attempt, but the amount of willful ignorance is hard to break through. Facts and statistics mean nothing to someone who has already decided you are wrong.
I am eventually going to run for some low level public office and I plan to campaign the Rick Perry/Obama way with actually going out and talking with voters on a personal level, explaining why issues are important and why they will eventually decide to vote against me since I am going to scare the crap out of them by going against the grain.Honestly I kind of respect them in a perverse way. They are sticking with their "team" regardless. Not to pick on you but you seem like you know better yet you STILL support the party.
Any informed, fair and objective person would say the current crop of Dems are better than the GOP alternative right now regardless of their flaws. If you look at the current state of politics, the Dems are CLEARLY "the lesser of two evils" even if you don't agree with them 100%. Therefore, folks like YOU are part of them problem IMO
You know, it's been very interesting reading your posts, since I come from a very Conservative (with a big C) background. 8 years ago or so I was almost unrecognizable to what I am today. Part of my move to be liberal as all hell was definitely finding out more actual information, but I think a larger part of it was realizing that the Republican party (and Conservatives) really isn't necessarily what it purports to be. I think you're clinging to a few general ideas like "fiscal sanity" that I'm not sure you'll find a lot of democrats against, and you especially won't find a ton of (informed) liberals to be against, either. There was a good chunk of time where I was like you and proclaimed myself to be fiscally conservative, but socially liberal. At one point, though, I just dropped all pretense when I realized being a liberal doesn't mean I have to be fiscally insane or something. I mean the mere fact that you would even entertain the idea of civil unions for polygamists puts you WAY outside the mainstream of conservatives, even socially, and I give you a lot of props for it.
I totally respect it on the moral level.If your wife is still active, I seriously doubt she would even consider having one
And if such legislation is complimented by a strong solution to the problem of unwanted babies, I would even be okay with it on the practical level (not support it, but I wouldn't see a problem to live in such society either).
And yes, it is a staggeringly difficult problem, and no, I have no idea how solve it.
cartoon_soldier
Member
Team Obama excelled at that during 2008 especially when talking to Fox News
The moment I fell in love with Robert Gibbs:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zgn6rjGbp0c&feature=player_embedded
Hannity goes to guilt by Association, Gibbs turns it right back onto him
Hannity was so right too, Obama is totally weak on terrorism.
Holy crap 86% thought McCain won that debate to 12% thinking Obama won it. Not that I needed any proof that Fox News' viewers are Conservative as all hell, but damn.
Hobbestetrician
Member
I like the poll on the bottom where 86% thought McCain won the debate.
Edit: Whoops, looks like I was beaten. Shame on me for not refreshing first.
PhoenixDark
Banned
That was for the last debate right (Oct 6)? IIRC it was McCain's worst performance
Black Mamba
Member
$78k is right at the top 20% of income earners...
It is a very disturbing procedure to watch. I can see why it's permitted, but I think it's far more appropriate to advocate for an abortion during the first trimester. That said, a lot of lifers do like to scare people into thinking the baby can "feel" a PBA, but that's not really true, because of the anesthesia.
Some data would be nice.
And, yes, it is pretty pathetic how there's no incentive offered for a woman to "choose life" despite conservatives repeating it ad nauseum for eons now. All of the time and effort put into backing legislation, protesting, etc. and yet as soon as the mother is persuaded to not get an abortion and have the baby, it's like she's already forgotten about. Seems like another case of sheepish social conservatives not exactly practicing what they preach.
In other news:
Xenoblade is more popular than Mitt Romney. Monolith Soft should start a PAC.
AlteredBeast
Fork 'em, Sparky!
Honestly I kind of respect them in a perverse way. They are sticking with their "team" regardless. Not to pick on you but you seem like you know better yet you STILL support the party.
I don't support the party in any meaningful way right now. I have voted for candidates based on issues in the last two elections, but most of my local republican representatives don't have a realistic democratic opponent.
Any informed, fair and objective person would say the current crop of Dems are better than the GOP alternative right now regardless of their flaws. If you look at the current state of politics, the Dems are CLEARLY "the lesser of two evils" even if you don't agree with them 100%. Therefore, folks like YOU are part of them problem IMO
Without a doubt, Democrats are much more fair-minded and intelligent as of right now. They are the lesser of two evils in most ways, in fact, but honestly for me, and it would probably sound very strange to someone with an opposing or apathetic viewpoint, restricting abortion is one of my highest priorities.
I am fiscally liberal. "Fiscal sanity" is not in any way related to any position or platform currently occupied by any party. It exists (unfortunately) only within the realms of my mind and anyone reading these posts) Higher taxes, slashed military, etc. It is certainly not at all being offered by the GOP and hardly anyone with a strong voice in the Democratic party, either.
Of course, I did say civil unions and not marriage. People want to focus on the damn words and not the meanings. Let Christians/Jews/Muslims/Non-Denoms/etc. have their marriages, the government should refer to all religious ceremonies that unite two people as civil unions. Similarly, two atheists who wish to unite in a courthouse will also have civil unions. Churches can and still would refer to them as marriages, while gays (and asexual people who solely wish to reap the economical and societal benefits) could get their official, state-recognized civil union as well, whether a church wants to perform it or they do it in a courthouse. Either way, to the government it is all civil and it is a union.
That would definitely push me away from people who absolutely need to have it called a "marriage" to sleep well at night, but it would in essence make everyone equal.
I know that paying single mothers has long been a demonized thing by right-wingers, but I would not be opposed to giving some sort of incentive to a woman who gives a child up for adoption. I don't know what the logistics would be, and if it would even be feasible, but no amount of money can replace a child that has been aborted for capricious reasons. It is like healthcare. How can people be against true universal healthcare? How is money more important than saving a life, providing treatment for the poor, old, and otherwise needy? That is some cold-hearted greed right there and I can say with certainty that Jesus would be disgusted to see us put our pocketbooks ahead of our duty to care for those around us. After all, it wasn't for the gay sex and lasciviousness that Sodom and Gomorrah was destroyed, despite what some might take from the Bible account in Genesis.
further digression - it was that set of verses and context that actually woke me up to pushing for a better healthcare system, driven by empathy, compassion and duty, rather than greed and paranoia about having to pay for some uninsured person's life-saving surgery (GASP!!! the horror! let em die, that will show em!)
AlteredBeast
Fork 'em, Sparky!
and yet I paid an effective rate of around 13%. How does someone in the top quintile pay so little? I obviously have none of those demonized capital gains to speak of (before you bring out the pitchforks, I am obviously for the raising of capital gains taxes), just full-time employment. The country is simply not going to move forward if people like me are only paying 13%. unless your data is off, it looks like my 78K merely puts me towards the high end of the second quintile, not the bottom of the first.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
That right there is insane to me. I was flabbergasted when I found out that my family was top 15%. Emotionally it feels like the standard of living and general finances of my family should be maybe top 40%
Popular media fucks with expectations.
AlteredBeast
Fork 'em, Sparky!
apparently 78k is only 28%, not top quintile, but it is a sobering amount all the same.
Hah, I've actually said the same thing for a while. The government never should have performed "marriages" (though I guess I can see why they did at the time). It should perform civil unions and let all the religious shit be done by whatever church or whatever people want. The problem now is that if you even attempted to do what you and I know would be the best option it'd just end up with people throwing a fit that the government was "taking away their marriage" or something equally stupid. Unfortunately the sensible solution seems almost more unfeasible than the continuing to force things down this same road.
I can understand this, I guess. I almost think abortion is the one key thing that keeps my dad in the republican corner of the ring. I think it's such a deplorable thing to him that he contorts his entire worldview around that fact, and seems to think that those that can be in "favor" (however much democrats actually are in favor of abortion, mind you) of it can't possibly be right on anything at all. So, anyway, I understand how people are so passionate about it, because it is a pretty deep thing.
Personally, yeah I'd like to get abortions to the smallest at all possible number, but do it in a sane sort of way. I think partial birth abortions should definitely be banned, but I think abortion should definitely be an option in the first few months. It should especially stay open as an option after all these laws and things meant to keep delaying women from getting them, as I think that contributes to people getting them later. I also think the stigma and rhetoric thrown around by a lot of people on the right definitely doesn't help either, since it makes it into such a large decision that people delay until its nearly too late. And by large decision there I don't mean a large internal decision, which I know it always is and always will be. I mean a large decision because of the pressures and ridicule the person might get from outside forces.
Anyway, I believe we've had this conversation before and most of us agreed that with a large safety net that took care of people's health and most basic things, and widely available contraception and sex education most people would have no problem with banning abortion after the first month or so. In a world such as that there really wouldn't be much of an excuse. A ban on it probably wouldn't even do much good in a world like that since I doubt anyone would even wait that long. But we're pretty far from a world like that. We're in a country that people can get thrown way further into poverty because of a child and because of their healthcare. That's why, to me, health care is my paramount voting issue (besides the economy right now, I suppose). If we get a strong health care system then some of these other things will fall into place as much easier debates (I think)
If your wife is still active, I seriously doubt she would even consider having one
I understand your perspective and respect it, but I'd fight tooth and nail to preserve the rights of my wife and daughters (and women in general). I don't use the term often, but I find the idea that people want to legislate control over their bodies simply offensive. Not wanting to side track; I think we feel equally about the issue, just in opposite directions.
I think we agree on about 80% of issues, though. I keep reading your posts going, wait, you keep saying you're a Republican...
AlteredBeast
Fork 'em, Sparky!
Yeah, healthcare is probably my number 2 or 3. It is sad that my two highest priorities are fought for what's right (in my mind, not calling anyone else wrong) on two completely opposite extremes.
I just hope that Medicare for all, with the necessary tax increases, becomes a reality in the next few years.
I just hope that Medicare for all, with the necessary tax increases, becomes a reality in the next few years.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Regardless of any of our feelings on the actual act of abortion statistics show that making them illegal doesn't actually significantly decrease the number of them taking place, it just makes them more dangerous. I mean, you can be against abortions, but "restricting them" doesn't have any positive effects whatsoever.
I've been waiting for a populist Christian revival for a while now, you think with the evangelical emphasis on personal reading of the bible, some people would, you know, read the bible.
And honestly, if you do that in any capacity you'd soon realize it's not about gay marriage and decency laws.
Mike Huckabee made some noises toward that but got quickly swallowed by the establishment.
I think this county's due, it's going to change a lot of people's minds about the Church too.
AlteredBeast
Fork 'em, Sparky!
I sure as hell hope so. I make it a point to always bring it up in Sunday School about Sodom and Gomorrah whenever the sexual sins thing would be brought up. People don't read their holy books, profess to be experts or fervent followers, and then spew falsities. It boggles the mind. I understand that the Old Testament isn't exactly seat-of-your-pants reading (except for the really hot parts of Songs of Solomon! Woowee!!), but knowing what you are talking about, following Jesus' example of compassion and love for all and being inclusive to all would do so much for the country.
speculawyer
Member
Yeah, that is sure the way it feels to me.
Did you catch David Stockman on Bill Maher last night? Reagan's director of OMB.
Basically all he did was say that Republicans are nuts on social issues these days and they are completely fiscally irresponsible. And that is from Reagan's director of OMB.
But I guess he is disowned by the GOP these days. That's what happens if you try to stay in touch with reality.
The one cool shit about about being a Hebrew speaker is that you can just read the old testament.
Some of it is in Aramaic, but the vast majority is totally readable and understandable to the modern Hebrew speaker.
I'd say it's slightly harder read than Shakespeare would be (for someone who never studied him in school).
I'm not a religious man, but that's pretty cool.
I used to bitch about the fact that it's mandatory in high school, but man, had I known how many party arguments it would win me...
AlteredBeast
Fork 'em, Sparky!
Everything you just wrote fascinates me. I wish I could read Hebrew. I do speak Spanish fluently and read through both Testaments in Spanish, as well as a variety of classic novels (Cien Anos de Soledad, La Guerra del Fin del Mundo, Don Quixote, etc) to really flex my Spanish muscle. It really helps to understand so many fundamental meanings of tons of English words and romantic roots.
speculawyer
Member
Well, keep in mind that such procedures EXTREMELY rare.
The total amount of 3rd trimester abortions is like 0.01% of abortions. Like 100 a year total and they generally involve horrible horrible situations such as potential death of mother, severe birth defects, cancer, etc.
I think they tend to be quite self-limiting . . . it is not like healthy women with healthy babies have those.
I will one day learn Spanish for Don Quixote.
Not that I would mind reading Borges and Marquez in their original language (UNDERSTATEMENT) but Don Quixote is enough for me.
re: abortions -
I feel that late term abortions and incest pregnancies are mostly a distraction from the real issue.
AlteredBeast
Fork 'em, Sparky!
You my friend, have rubbed elbows with mediocracy.I have touched Mario Vargas Llosa, Nobel prize winner for literature
Well, mediocracy might be harsh, people say the translations are big part of the problem, but I was generally unimpressed.
Edit: Jose Saramago signed a book for me (though he wasn't a Nobel winner at the time).
I probably should've tried to touch him.
AlteredBeast
Fork 'em, Sparky!
La Guerra starts off with one of those perfect sentences, just like The Gunslinger. I can still recount it (maybe mixing up the order, but off the top of my head 8 years later)
El hombre era alto y tan flaco que parecia simepre de perfil.
Chills man. Something worded so well immediately floods my mind's eye with delicious mental candy.
Like The Gunslinger's , "The Man in Black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed." little things like that just set up the entire books setting, character traits, body types, and so forth. It is like the implications of "Jesus wept." in the Bible. chills.
Is there any doubt now that the Republicans deserve to be stripped of the "Conservative" moniker and instead be branded as the "reactionary party"?
Fantastic.
I was starting to worry that poligaf will get all hippie and carebeary what with all that agreement.
But blessed be Tebow's (soon to be) expiring contract - I fucking hate Stephen King.
Let the culture war resume.
lol, Scott Walker said this gem of a quote in a speech to the NRA:
"If I fail in June, it sets us back at least a decade, if not a generation."
He also said:
"The advocates of big government view me as a threat. They want to take me out. Our opponents are targeting me because I stand in their way of getting their hands on money and power."
"If I fail in June, it sets us back at least a decade, if not a generation."
He also said:
"The advocates of big government view me as a threat. They want to take me out. Our opponents are targeting me because I stand in their way of getting their hands on money and power."
AlteredBeast
Fork 'em, Sparky!
It isn't even the party of "no" anymore, it is just the party of "opposite of the other guys", even if they previously supported positions exact to or similar to ones currently pushed by democrats (many of which could have been reasonable Republicans in the 80's.)
AlteredBeast
Fork 'em, Sparky!
I am fine with that, I truly dislike much of what he writes, but the Dark Tower series was an incredible run for me, especially that first book and Wizard and Glass. I read the whole series in a couple months while moving across the country. Loved everything but the second to last book and part of the finale.
Just tallied up the wall of shame and the top 10 posters have 32% of all the posts in the thread!! crazy how much I have posted in this thread, I hope I haven't been too much of a distraction with all my digressive posts and non-sequiturs!
Nah mang, you're not getting a half agreement with me on that issue.
I think the opening of the Dark Tower sounds straight out of Bulwer–Lytton ("it was a dark stormy night...").
I never understood why people go crazy over it.
But enough derail.
Or at least, enough Stephen King derail, I already grow bored talking about him.
AlteredBeast
Fork 'em, Sparky!
Boo. Although one final question so that I can fully compartmentalize my love/hate for you and your posts: Have you ever seen Blood Simple? Thoughts?
brianmcdoogle
Member
Out of curiosity, is something like Intrade a decent barometer for political stuff?
SouthernDragon
Member
Ironically enough, Marquez prefers CAdS in English. I do, too.
While I think it's morally wrong, I'd rather someone get an abortion than bring an unwanted baby into this world.
That said, I can understand feeling strongly about this BUT being a single-issue voter over it is ridiculous to me in this day and age. It is legal and that's not going to change so people who really want abortions will get them somehow.
Also, people dying from wars, poverty or lack of healthcare is just as bad as abortion IMO. And that's what eventually happens when GOPers gain power these days. I find it highly irrational to prioritize one kind of death over another...
AlteredBeast
Fork 'em, Sparky!
I bought the English version when Borders was going out of business, been meaning to read it, but almost don't want to risk soiling my opinion of it. Of course, if the author himself favors it (which is beyond my comprehension, but whatever) then it must be a pretty damn good translation.
Of course and love it!
Sometimes. It's good for stuff that's based on a lot of data and trends (elections). Other political stuff like how votes on a bill will go is dubious
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