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PoliGAF 2012 |OT4|: Your job is not to worry about 47% of these posts.

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G

giga

Member
bkm1+


SMH
 
S

speculawyer

Member
PhoenixDark said:
Ultimately both sides are going to claim their guy won tonight. This really shows just how bad Obama lost last week - I didn't see anyone wasting their time defending that performance. Obama just might lose another debate, but there's no way both sides will pretty much agree - he'll no doubt do better and fire up his base
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Yeah . . . but you see people defending Biden's performance. That is a big difference isn't it?

The right will defend their guy no matter what. They'll also defend creationism, BLS job number manipulation, Obama being born in Kenya, unskewed polls, climate change is a hoax, Obama is a secret Muslim, etc.
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
speculawyer said:
Yeah . . . but you see people defending Biden's performance. That is a big difference isn't it?

The right will defend their guy no matter what. They'll also defend creationism, BLS job number manipulation, Obama being born in Kenya, unskewed polls, climate change is a hoax, Obama is a secret Muslim, etc.
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Biden being defended is my point: he did his job and is being defended by his side. That's what tends to happen with debates unless someone loses big, like last week.

The right doesn't always defend their guy, as you saw throughout the summer when they savaged Romney. If Obama had turned in a perfect performance last week and thrown Romney's moderate turn off, thus clearly winning the debate...republicans would be slamming Romney for moving to the center, claiming he wasn't really a conservative, etc. But he won the debate so big that not one major republican complained about the move to the center.
 
J

Jackson50

Member
PhoenixDark said:
It also highlights just how deceptive Bibi's little picture show was. Israel and republicans continually frame the issue as one of Iran shoving green stuff into a big rocket somewhere, and once it's full...game over man!
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I was also displeased with how the moderator framed the question. I don't remember the exact quote, but she framed Iran as our gravest national security threat. She didn't even inquire if that's a valid premise. She treated it as axiomatic. That only feeds the hysteria.
 
C

Chichikov

Member
I thought Biden crushed him.
Ryan is not a serious politician and I strongly believe that this campaign will end is presidential aspirations for good.
 
B

Brawndo Addict

Banned
I don't think there's anything I hate more than the media's ridiculous obsession with the "blogosphere". The last thing I want to see on television is what some random person decided to tweet or post on facebook. And it's started to seep into actual reporting too, so the media isn't even doing their actual job anymore. If some rumor gets started on the internet, I want the media to investigate and see if it's true, not report it as fact until the internet tells them otherwise.

I mean seriously, I'm starting to worry that the news is going to get the point where it's just someone regurgitating a google search they did and checking their facebook and twitter. That's just what the average person does and apparently that has become the modern standard for news broadcasting.
 
B

Black Mamba

Member
Heh, MSNBC is doing 8 undecideds and 1 said they'd vote for Romney now. 3 went Obama, I think.

Now discussing personality.

edit: I like how Biden is VP so he can't get frustrated. As if we don't all get like that in debates.
 
F

Forever

Banned
The thing that annoyed the left about Obama's performance in the first debate was that, even if you're going to lose, at least go down fighting.

Biden brought the heat today. Democrats should be in good spirits.
 
E

Effect

Member
There is another fallout here. If Romney/Ryan lose (think they will and very much hope they do), this could have also cost Ryan his House of Representative seat. He's still running for that seat and the person against him is actually giving him a challenge I think.
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
Jackson50 said:
I was also displeased with how the moderator framed the question. I don't remember the exact quote, but she framed Iran as our gravest national security threat. She didn't even inquire if that's a valid premise. She treated it as axiomatic. That only feeds the hysteria.
Click to expand...

Iran is the gravest national security threat and the only way to reduce the deficit is by cutting entitlements. Really shows that despite having two parties, ultimately these huge issues are basically fought solely on the ideological grounds of the defense and corporate industries
 
R

RDreamer

Member
Someone posted this on a discussion on my facebook:

I have a problem (being on Medicare) I have an advantage plan and when Obama care comes about I will lose my insurance. Right now I and My husband pay over $5,000 a year for medicare and a supplement. I as a senior I can't afford Obama's health policy.
Also in order to get any major surgery there will be a panel that decides if I can get it. They can decide you are too old or have health problems and not allow you to get the surgery. Not fair.
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What exactly is she talking about. I can post the politifact stuff about the panels, but she's not going to lose anything is she?
 
C

cartoon_soldier

Member
Forever said:
The thing that annoyed the left about Obama's performance in the first debate was that, even if you're going to lose, at least go down fighting.

Biden brought the heat today. Democrats should be in good spirits.
Click to expand...

Yup, excellent post from Josh Marshall on that:

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2012/10/as_i_noted_this_morning.php

These are powerful slogans for the kind of candidate and president Obama is and the kind his supporters want him to be.

But more than anything else last week’s debate left Obama’s supporters thinking just that: “Are you in?”

Yes, clearly, Romney’s performance (coupled with Obama’s) pumped up and solidified Romney’s support. It led weak Obama supporters to think again and consider Romney. But in a base election, in a turn-out election, there’s simply no underestimating the level of demoralization Obama put into his supporters with that debate performance. I can see it palpably in reader emails from people who support the president. But it goes well beyond disappointment. It’s something more akin to soldiers going into battle and then looking over their shoulder to see the commander has turned around and is going the other way.

Supporters will fight like crazy for a leader or candidate who’s fighting, who’s in it, even against merciless mistreatment, even well after it looks like the odds are impossibly long.
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If I was the Obama campaign I would give Media amazing access for the next 3 days for good spin. OTR, Interviews, whatever.
 
C

Chumly

Member
RDreamer said:
Someone posted this on a discussion on my facebook:



What exactly is she talking about. I can post the politifact stuff about the panels, but she's not going to lose anything is she?
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No it's beyond stupid. Advantage plans are still there. We just aren't overpaying them anymore.
 
Z

Zzoram

Member
Romney and Ryan have been emphasizing that Russia is the greatest threat to the USA. Any reason why they keep pushing Russia as the enemy instead of Iran and China?

Also why is North Korea completely off the political and media radar now?
 
M

metalslimer

Member
Also in order to get any major surgery there will be a panel that decides if I can get it. They can decide you are too old or have health problems and not allow you to get the surgery. Not fair.
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This is patently false and has been proven over and over. It's amazing to me that even people who do have health insurance have no idea how it works, much like the people who don't understand how a tiered tax system works and think we take X% of a millionaire's income
 
B

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
Zzoram said:
Romney and Ryan have been emphasizing that Russia is the greatest threat to the USA. Any reason why they keep pushing Russia as the enemy instead of Iran and China?

Also why is North Korea completely off the political and media radar now?
Click to expand...

The Cold War was an easier time for warhawks, there was a clear enemy. Now that enemy is extremism of all kinds and you can't bomb that problem away.
 
F

Forever

Banned
This really reminds me of 2004. Bush shit the bed with his first debate and the next week Cheney did some damage control by spanking Edwards.
 
E

eBay Huckster

Member
B-Dubs said:
The Cold War was an easier time for warhawks, there was a clear enemy. Now that enemy is extremism of all kinds and you can't bomb that problem away.
Click to expand...

Well, even in the later proxy wars we didn't really have a clear enemy, but that didn't stop us from trying to bomb them anyway.
 
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