He won't. That'll become the story instead of whatever lie he was trying to rebut
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PoliGAF 2012 |OT4|: Your job is not to worry about 47% of these posts.
- Thread starter Amir0x
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He won't. That'll become the story instead of whatever lie he was trying to rebut
The only "gaffe" is that Biden was really enjoying the fuck out of the debate, constantly laughing, smiling, reacting to Ryan saying batshit ridiculous stuff, and eventually just kinda saying "fuck it" and butting in constantly to rebut points or fact check/contradict Ryan in real time. The narrative out of the Republican side of things is that Biden was rude, unhinged, and unpresidential, in contrast to Ryan who was calm, composed, and polite.
Biden decidedly dominated the debate overall, and by that I mean he was in complete control of the discourse at all times, frequently putting Ryan on the defensive or retorting a statement with a relatively devastating comeback (example: after Ryan tried to take Obama to task for passing the stimulus, Biden pointed out that he personally received letters from Ryan begging for stimulus money for his district twice, something that Ryan admitted was true).
The storyline coming out of the debate is pretty mixed, as I expected. The right says Ryan won, the left says Biden one, a lot of the pundits are doing everything they can to frame it as "a tie." General consensus probably falls somewhere around "a draw slightly leaning towards a Biden win."
All told, this should energize the democratic base as well as many of its common constituents, including unions and blue collar workers. I would guess Biden's performance played VERY well in a place like Ohio. This is exactly what Obama needed, but I'm guessing the polls are going to show relatively little motion. I think Romney's momentum more or less stagnates here, but I don't see much movement going back towards Obama. MAYBE a point or two if the consensus does end up leaning more towards a Biden win, but I'm not sure that's going to be the case.
http://www.cnn.com/POLITICS/pollingcenter/polls/3262 CNN Poll says Ryan won... How can people think this?
The Chosen One
Member
I'm disappointed that Obama watched the debate on CNN. You'd think after all the "Save Big Bird" campaign last week, he'd have the decency to watch the debate on PBS.
Mercury Fred
Banned
Really? I thought Romney came off as a complete douche-- a petulant child really. Biden was mild compared to Romney's bizarre, entitled lie-storm last week.
Biggest gaffe Biden made wasn't even verbal, he kept laughing in the background like he was high as fuck. Of course he was always laughing at Ryan's lies but I am almost certain it came off as too dickish for a lot of people, outside of that an absolute presentation, factual and empathetic destruction of Ryan and also brought the fight to Romney as well which is what he should have done. Could basically not ask for a better performance in an attack dog.
It's cnn, knowing them they probably ran out of independents and asked some republicans if they could call themselves independent.
I don't think Obama will go that far. What he needs to do is not be aggressive and accusatory; he needs to be firm and assertive. Challenge Romney on his positions and give strong, assertive answers and rebuts. Above all, Obama needs to show passion.
Particle Physicist
between a quark and a baryon
Only poll that matters:
Wife: "ryan is a troll"
Wife: "ryan is a troll"
Romney only came off as more brazen if you consider that he was dishonest. Ignore that and Biden was a lot more aggressive than Romney.
SquiddyCracker
Banned
There you go.
Basically, only 34% of their 381 registered voters were independents (129 watchers), and of the remaining watchers, 118 were democrats, and 125 were republicans.
There's also a +/- 5% margin of error (on the 48% respectively 44%) which makes it even more worthless
In the fine print it says it was only 381 people in the sample, and it even specifically says that they oversampled Republicans and that the demographic breakdown does not reflect the general public.
I totally missed that we have a new PoliGaf thread. Biden did his job. The base is energized and back up off the floor after Obama's bad debate performance and new polls showing Romney gains. I thought he was fantastic with his aggressive style, preparedness, and detailed answers.
What?
ErasureAcer
Banned
Obama questioned Romney's assessment of the facts last go around...he did show up even if people have a revisionist history and go along with the media story and even forcing Obama to admit he didn't show up(yeah right, he showed up...the media spun and ran with it). If Romney runs the same play(lies) Obama has to adjust his defense to the 1-3-1 to counteract the Lie. His swat to half court to allow a few dribbles for a monster slam will be amazing.
I'm saying that most of those 34% independents were probably republican.
NullPointer
Member
A different and less charitable take here...
Oh, drudge, never stop.
Actually please stop. Please?
Officerrob
Banned
My brother in law is a die hard Republican and a real Ryan nut hugger and he just called me all disappointed in Ryan. He felt that he sat back and let Biden attack him all night and when he did fight back it was like he had no conviction in what he was saying (sounds like I have heard this somewhere else before)
That's the 47% of the pizza Romney didn't care for.
Its amazing the amount of crying people are doing because Ryan got massacred on national tv
I know the Right never likes to admit defeat but the more they cry the more obvious it is they were on the losing side.
Now Obama just needs to have a pulse and I think things will be back on track, but I am sure the chicken littles here will disagree and point to a poll or the "Media" as proof Obama will lose
I know the Right never likes to admit defeat but the more they cry the more obvious it is they were on the losing side.
Now Obama just needs to have a pulse and I think things will be back on track, but I am sure the chicken littles here will disagree and point to a poll or the "Media" as proof Obama will lose
What what?
Romney was aggressive but it was the dishonesty that made his performance seem so bold. If you're someone who doesn't notice things like honesty, then Biden will appear much more aggressive when you compare the two performances.
For the record, I loved Biden tonight. My palms were literally sweating I was so excited.
describes my dad. he was a republican, but got fed up with them in the 2010 elections. he hadn't voted republican in probably decades, anyway. he's one of those guys who believes 'the truth is somewhere in the middle' though, which is why he registered independent.
kinda weird, since his parents were republicans too, but switched because of dan quayle. i guess it wasn't cool to be an independent back then, because they registered as democrats instead.
Officerrob
Banned
I think the issue is that Ryan was "their" guy. Attractive, young, and pushes the ideals of the far right and actually believes them. This was his first attempt at the national stage and he was destroyed by a guy Republicans have been making fun of for four years. That's a bitter pill to swallow
Yeah. They're not crying for Congressman Paul Ryan, they're crying for President Paul Ryan, the man who will never be.
CHEESEBOARD
Ryan and Obama are pretty similar in temperament. Ryan had some canned attack lines but like Obama, he didn't show "passion". Biden, like Romney, wove his talking points into every topic and attacked with gusto
AlteredBeast
Fork 'em, Sparky!
Of course you would see it that way. I dislike all parties involved, so I would like to think I hold a slightly less skewed opinion.
Romney wanted his time and was insistent on getting it to the point of interrupting the moderator several times, but he was very courteous to Obama, outside of lying. I am only talking demeanor here.
Biden on the other hand was just being an ass.
NihonTiger90
Member
The RCP electoral map looks so odd. Especially since it indicates Romney surging ahead by significant, nearly unbreakable margins in a number of states.
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
i demand an update to the palin frown/biden smile meme.
AlteredBeast
Fork 'em, Sparky!
LOL, I thought about that several times during the debate. They will come. oh yes, they will come.
This is basically correct. I loved Biden being an ass, but it is what it is.
well my dad thinks the truth is somewhere in the middle. i think he feels both sides try to dupe the public in ways, so it's easier to sit back and judge them 'unbiased'.
unfortunately, the label does not automatically make you a critical thinker.
Officerrob
Banned
Hmmm, the release for the CNN snap poll has no details other than party affiliation. Pretty telling since the one last week was mocked for being all southern whites over 50 years old. Why would they all of a sudden hold back that information? lol
http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2012/images/10/11/top13.pdf
http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2012/images/10/11/top13.pdf
ryutaro's mama
Member
A Ryan/Obama debate would have been boring.
Biden/Romney (with Lehrer reffing) GOD TIER
AlteredBeast
Fork 'em, Sparky!
critical thinking died the moment the general populace thought that it meant "negative thinking"
The general public doesn't care. They can change their vote after a few minutes of face time with a candidate, after all, completely ignoring months and months of position changes.
Mercury Fred
Banned
I'm sorry, but this is a ridiculous, hypocritical assessment.
NullPointer
Member
10/10
i think the weirdest thing is missouri as a tossup.
It's easy to be courteous to a guy who didn't show up though and let you get away with dodging everything.
AlteredBeast
Fork 'em, Sparky!
You are wrong, but I appreciate your apology all the same.
You have a point.
I think Biden won, sure. And I think the consensus will evince a Biden victory. But Ryan's performance was adequate. He was palpably uncomfortable commenting on foreign policy. And he was goaded into defending the privatization of social security. But he could have performed far worse.
No. Some are fixating on his mannerisms, but he didn't commit any egregious mistakes. He mostly dominated the debate in that the focus was entirely on him.
Mercury Fred
Banned
I like you say how he was courteous oh except for the lying. Is that what Mormon courtesy looks like? Enlighten me.
Black Republican
Member
another debate i missed but wow the mood here sure is different from last week.
Black Mamba
Member
Eh, I thought Romney demanded to have the last word every time even when it wasn't his to have it. Someone I watched it with (female not democrat) was off put by it.
Biden was a bit much on the laughing and cutting off a bit too, but I think he came off the same as Romney here. At least Biden was cutting in to say Ryan is lying so it had purpose.
But then again, as I said, the American electorate is just ugh.
everyone's happy- bad news for obama
The Biden gaffe thing seems largely manufactured to me. It's become a theme where bloggers and media hunt for 'gaffes'.
AlteredBeast
Fork 'em, Sparky!
If you reread my comment, I delineated his level of courtesy by being a measure of his demeanor. I despise Romney for most of the same reasons you do, so save the religious BS. Mormons should act as their faith engenders, but Romney apparently has no problem serving two masters.
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