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PoliGAF 2012 |OT4|: Your job is not to worry about 47% of these posts.
- Thread starter Amir0x
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Officerrob
Banned
Lets do a check list:
1)You thought he was uncomfortable on foreign policy
2)He defended privatizing social security
3)He was clearly uncomfortable siding with Romney on abortion
4)He was arguing for possibly sending troops back into Iraq
5)Even the moderator trolled him for not having details on where he would cover the 5 trillion dollar tax cut
6)He got destroyed by Biden on the stimulus, by Biden saying Ryan wrote him letters asking for money
Yet you thought he was adequate?
Yeah Ryan didn't do 'bad' in the sense he had no meltdown on set (lets be honest, if most of us got berated like Biden did to him tonight, we'd be heading for the door or sweating like crazy, I know I would have probably given up mentally but eh I am not running for office). Foreign policy is the only section that he looked absolutely out of his league and might turn people off of Ryan. As others said during the debate it was like a diplomat debating with a teenage kid whose only foreign experience is playing Risk. In the end if Biden brought his A game, there really wasn't going to be a chance for Ryan to win, his very platform and running mate make for very hard content to actually debate in a confident fashion especially with a moderator actively watching out to see if you were answering the actual question. In fact I think the biggest winner in all this (to complete the reversal of the last debate) was the moderator.
Black Mamba
Member
I thought Syria was a bigger problem for Ryan than Iraq.
lol, yeah. Ryan basically seemed to say that their policy would be... um... to somehow go into the past and do it about the same, but better and sooner.
TacticalFox88
Banned
Facebook Friend said:
OMFG! :lol
SquiddyCracker
Banned
This really stood out for me.
That, and Ryan's fabricated car crash sob-story being absolutely crushed by Biden's real-life experience of a car crash.
http://pdfob.tumblr.com/post/33408636830/a-caller-on-c-span-after-the-vp-debate-classic
Haha a CSPAN caller commenting on Ryan drinking too much water
Haha a CSPAN caller commenting on Ryan drinking too much water
get ready for another huge shift on the 16th and 22nd
I'm struggling to understand how claiming someone can be courteous, when they're outright lying about the person they are talking about over and over again and even doubling down on those lies, is in any way the less skewed opinion here.
NullPointer
Member
That was a thorough spanking right there. Just wow.
AlteredBeast
Fork 'em, Sparky!
The epitome of the Romney Ryan ticket is merely to say that they will do things better without EVER giving a plan. Ryan had no response for anything and he looked foolish. He performed worse than Obama did, in my opinion. Biden looked a bit more harsh than Romney did, in my opinion, but still did a great job of explaining and defending opinions. He had far fewer dodges than Ryan and was mostly good across the board.
Hobbestetrician
Member
It's been hard to not break my 'don't post politics on Facebook' rule tonight.
PhoenixDark
Banned
The only issue Ryan seemed to do exceptional on was Libya, in part because it's so gift wrapped. Biden contracted the State Department and seemed to throw the intelligence community under the bus. After that Biden pretty much got the ball back and never gave it back
AlteredBeast
Fork 'em, Sparky!
I am not talking about how you or I perceive Romney. I am not sure why this isn't being understood.
I am talking about how the public sees both instances. Romney came off more courteous because he wasn't grinning to himself, shaking his head, laughing and so on while Obama talked. He didn't interrupt Obama when he talked. His demeanor was courteous. Demeanor. Appearance.
Am I being understood now?
Black Mamba
Member
I thought Biden did fine there, especially pointing out that Ryan cut the budget for embassy defense, to which Ryan completely ignored in rebuttal.
Also Biden won according to this poll http://www.google.com/insights/cons...kzuui&question=2&filter&rw=1&named_grouping=1
eBay Huckster
Member
jesus christ at the crosstab for 65+ :lol
This Biden win was so much more delicious because of the reactions my dad and uncles had after Romney picked Paul Ryan. They all couldn't wait for this debate. They thought it would be a cakewalk and Ryan would walk all over mr. gaffe machine. I feel like calling my dad up tomorrow.
SquiddyCracker
Banned
Eh, isn't that just an online poll?
It looks like the only reliable poll we have so far is the CSNCB(sp?)-one.
Mercury Fred
Banned
Oh, so it's about the public's opinion now and not yours? I'm enjoying your goal post shifting
And why should Biden get slammed for interrupting someone who's telling a lie?
What? Yes he was. "Smirking Romney, face down Obama" was like THE synoptic image of that debate.
eBay Huckster
Member
if it is, it seems to be in the vein of yougov
ryutaro's mama
Member
I'm gonna stand by my prediction from before the debate that this won't move the needle at all.
Black Mamba
Member
Does this mean Mitt will keep gaining at the same rate? Or that everything will freeze?
I think you'll see Dem enthusiasm tick up helping a bit but it will be impossible to discern from a fading bounce or whatnot.
eBay Huckster
Member
i'd argue that this might move the needle a bit in obama/biden's direction just from dem enthusiasm recovering somewhat, though obviously the town hall debate's going to have more of an effect
AlteredBeast
Fork 'em, Sparky!
Sorry if I were not clear before, but I am definitely (and always have been) talking about how regular people view both performances. That is why I said I am viewing it as someone without biases towards one candidate vs another.
My apologies for not writing out my position better. I realize I came off like a jerk. My bad.
Not sure...let me see if I understand this public you presume to speak for. So, if I walk up to one of these public people with a pleasant demeanor and, without interrupting them or laughing, shaking my head or otherwise "smirking" proceed to insult them and everything they do on the basis of unsubstantiated claims...these public people would consider me courteous?
His affectations on foreign policy were clear. It evoked Bush's performance in 2000. He seemed knowledgeable, yet it was a facile understanding gained by debate preparation. Too, it doesn't help that the Romney campaign has failed to develop a coherent policy for him to remember.
I was attempting to highlight the inanity of that assessment by noting examples of his total inadequacy.
ryutaro's mama
Member
I don't know that Mitt's gains will continue (that will depend on Tuesday) but I don't see this causing any clear gains for Obama/Biden from this.
If anything, the race might just stabilize.
I think this is not unreasonable in general, but I'd say comparing the President of the United States to a small child is pretty breathtakingly rude regardless of your biases.
AlteredBeast
Fork 'em, Sparky!
While you do have a point, I guess I didn't see that much because that stupid enigmatic grin is always on Romney's face whenever he is doing anything. Literally. He probably has that look while sleeping or getting a colonoscopy. Look up interviews he has done or Q&A sessions, that look is frozen on his face. FOREVER.
AlteredBeast
Fork 'em, Sparky!
YES! If they didn't know you were lying, they absolutely would. and I am not talking about you going up and lying to people in their faces, but someone observing such an exchange, not knowing whether you were lying or not, would absolutely find your conversation and demeanor pleasant.
Now, If you went up to someone in the same interaction and constantly interrupted them, corrected them, laughed at them and chuckled to yourself why they talking, even if you were correcting someone spouting falsities to the tune of Paul Ryan, people would see you as an arrogant prick.
Tell me if I am wrong here...
AlteredBeast
Fork 'em, Sparky!
Black Mamba
Member
Yeah, I think stabalize is a good word.
Thing is, this weekend if Romney's best polling was on Thurs/Fri/Sat of last week, we'll see a drop by Sunday/Monday. Some will call it a Biden Bounce but it could just be the previous bounce fading + stablization from Biden.
Word to the wise, expect Obama's lead to drop tomorrow. IIRC, Obama still had decent numbers right after the 1st debate in the 7 day trackers. So last week Thursday numbers coming out for today should hurt. Don't panic, it's expected!
If it doesn't drop, that would mean today was a good day for Obama (and/or last thursday was a bit better for Romney)
I could see some Dems coming home in the polls and/or in enthusiasm. But that's about it.
Fortunately, if we were to freeze the race right here where it is, I'd love our chances in the Electoral College.
NullPointer
Member
Its his screensaver.
AlteredBeast
Fork 'em, Sparky!
LOL. It probably uses less servos to maintain than a frown or a genuine smile, so it probably is some sort of power efficiency mode.
Not moving the needle is a win for the Obama campaign.
AlteredBeast
Fork 'em, Sparky!
Especially since he still leads dramatically in EV math. It would take a titanic effort on Romney's part in the next two debates and Obama weeping on stage in a child-like and effeminate (not endearing) manner to change any of that. Obama is still a lock.
Looking at Males 65+ is even worse, though when you dig into that subgroup it is no surprise to see it is dominated by respondents living in the South.
But this isn't a case where the statements he's making can't be easily verified. Most of the claims he made in the first debate were claims he's already tried on the campaign trail and have been amply documented and debunked. If anyone watching the debates bothered to stick around for even 10 minutes of the post debate analysis on just about any channel (except...) they'd have seen the early reaction favoring Romney's win but still calling him out for the dishonesty. Pick up a newspaper the next day and that would be reinforced further. Or, just Google for 5 minutes. Any notion of "courtesy" would be fleeting.
And as more and more votes are banked in Ohio, further baking a lead in the vote tally there, Obama's position in this race gets more and more secure.
To conservatives living in a media/cultural bubble, thinking that Romney is "surging" into some sort of narrow national lead, Election Night could very well end-up being a very nasty shock.
Pretty much. If polls stabilize between now and Tuesday as I suspect they will and Obama has a decent (not even "amazing," just "decent") performance in Tuesday's debate, this whole thing will be virtually over barring some kind of gargantuan catastrophe. And it will be hard for Obama to NOT have a decent performance on Tuesday. He has lowered expectations due to his performance in the first debate, the town hall setup should be relatively favorable to him, he knows how people responded to his performance in the first debate, and any aggressiveness on his part to make up for his weakness in the first debate will seem like a reasonable step down from what Biden did tonight. As long as he shows some energy and engagement and is able to articulate his positions, he'll at least earn a "draw" at the very least, and at this stage in the game, with so little time left and with the firewall still intact in the Electoral College, anything that is not a smashing Romney win is inherently an Obama victory.
Black Mamba
Member
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
Everyone but Obama has delivered at this point. Clinton and Biden put their best out there it's up to him now.
AlteredBeast
Fork 'em, Sparky!
This is the American public we are talking about. Those lucky few of us on GAF are the most informed of the electorate. The internet itself is pretty liberal, but then you have the millions and millions of adults who vote who don't have time for, nor care to find out about the concrete plans of both candidates. They turned off the TV after the debate or watched their local news.
My proof is Romney's sustained bump. Had everyone run to find out all the bunk Romney was staying truly was bunk, his bump would have been very slight, non-existent or HIGHLY temporary.
Instead, the most trusted pollster and aggregate in the business, Nate Silver, says that Romney is back up to almost a 1 in 3 chance of winning the election without any other thing happening in the last week and a half.
AlteredBeast
Fork 'em, Sparky!
As an aside, it would be entertaining to see Romney win the popular vote, but lose the Electoral College by 20+ votes. All of the backlash against the EC would disappear in an instant.
PhoenixDark
Banned
He's not capable of doing that. He's not that type of politician, whereas Clinton was/is. I'd say Biden could do that.
Particle Physicist
between a quark and a baryon
Of course not, it would only move it if the media in unison declared Biden the overwhelming winner, in an amazingly perfect performance never seen before on the presidential stage!
I still think Romney's momentum was completely created by the media.
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