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PoliGAF 2012 |OT4|: Your job is not to worry about 47% of these posts.

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P

PhoenixDark

Banned
Forever said:
Hillary announced her resignation like a year ago.
Click to expand...
I'm referring to Hillary falling on her sword. That just might work. Hillary has pretty munched worked nonstop for the last four years. With that in mind I wonder if Obama's lack of seriousness (The View, radio interviews about Nicki Minaj, etc) could finally stick with voters; I'm not agreeing with that assessment, just wondering if it might grab hold of some viewers. Hillary is more popular than Obama right now. If Romney catches Obama off guard here and voters don't find his excuse believable, it could be a major blow tonight

Romney will also bring up the failed green tech investment. So he's definitely going into tonight with a couple good jabs planned
 
T

teiresias

Member
Dreamcaster said:
Man, that would cause some squirming. "Mr. President, Secretary Clinton took responsibility for the security lapse in Libya and said the Buck Stops With her. President Truman had a sign on his desk that said "The Buck Stops Here" and I fundamentally believe the buck stops with the President. Do you take any responsibility for the disaster in Libya and the loss of 4 Americans?"

How does he get out of that? I think the best thing he could say is "This happened on my watch and yes, I take responsibility." Anything else will come off bad.
Click to expand...

"Well, Mitt, since you held your press conference so fast without any of the facts on the ground it seemed to me you were going to take responsibility for it, sort of like how some of your supporters give you credit for getting Osama Bin Laden."

Obviously, not a real or even good thing to say, it's just the ridiculousness of Mitt even wanting to bring up Libya after his backfire presser.
 
D

Dreamcaster

Banned
teiresias said:
That and I can't get behind the idea that the government should only be providing grants to completely tried and true businesses and tech. I mean, part of the reason for government expenditures in science is to do the things that are not projected to be profitable enough (or are simply too unknown or risky) for private enterprise to want to take the risk since they're all about getting a return.
Click to expand...

I think the difference might be viewed in giving large sums of money directly to companies versus what might be categorized as "traditional" government investment in research done at university and things like NASA. I can see it both ways.
 
F

Forever

Banned
PhoenixDark said:
I'm referring to Hillary falling on her sword. That just might work. Hillary has pretty munched worked nonstop for the last four years. With that in mind I wonder if Obama's lack of seriousness (The View, radio interviews about Nicki Minaj, etc) could finally stick with voters; I'm not agreeing with that assessment, just wondering if it might grab hold of some viewers. Hillary is more popular than Obama right now. If Romney catches Obama off guard here and voters don't find his excuse believable, it could be a major blow tonight

Romney will also bring up the failed green tech investment. So he's definitely going into tonight with a couple good jabs planned
Click to expand...

If Romney tries to politicize Hillary by name it will backfire big. Why? Because Hillary can speak for herself.

Let's not forget how their attempts to use Bill against Obama went.
 
J

JCizzle

Member
Dreamcaster said:
Man, that would cause some squirming. "Mr. President, Secretary Clinton took responsibility for the security lapse in Libya and said the Buck Stops With her. President Truman had a sign on his desk that said "The Buck Stops Here" and I fundamentally believe the buck stops with the President. Do you take any responsibility for the disaster in Libya and the loss of 4 Americans?"

How does he get out of that? I think the best thing he could say is "This happened on my watch and yes, I take responsibility." Anything else will come off bad.
Click to expand...

Of course he'll take responsibility. I don't think it's a gotcha moment at all.
 
P

pigeon

Banned
Cyan said:
I don't know anything about the propositions yet, but that sounds like too many yeses. :p
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Spoken like a true Californian voter.

Prop 30: Jerry Brown's budget prop that raises taxes for schools
Prop 31: balanced budget amendment for California, gives more budgetary power to local governments
Prop 32: prohibits political spending from payroll deductions for unions, corporations, contractors
Prop 33: allows auto insurance companies to offer continuous coverage discounts when switching companies, charge people who don't get discounts even more
Prop 34: repeal dealth penalty
Prop 35: expands human trafficking laws
Prop 36: repeal three strikes law for non-violent felons
Prop 37: GMO food labelling
Prop 38: another school tax proposition
Prop 39: increases income tax on multistate corporations who sell in CA
Prop 40: allows the nonpartisan redistricting to continue going into effect

edit: Aha, you responded. What are your thoughts on 35? I had that down as a maybe but the opposing argument struck me as more and more insane the more I read it.
 
R

ryutaro's mama

Member
PhoenixDark said:
There's a story on TPM right now saying Romney plans on demanding Obama "man up" and take responsibility for Libya, aimed at politicizing Hillary's resignation. Very interesting trap that I'm not sure Obama will be prepared to handle
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Yeah, cause I'm sure Obama's handlers didn't read this TPM article and haven't advised him on this as a possibility.

They are bumbling nincompoops...

Stay free, PD.
 
G

gcubed

Member
pigeon said:
Spoken like a true Californian voter.

Prop 30: Jerry Brown's budget prop that raises taxes for schools
Prop 31: balanced budget amendment for California, gives more budgetary power to local governments
Prop 32: prohibits political spending from payroll deductions for unions, corporations, contractors
Prop 33: allows auto insurance companies to offer continuous coverage discounts when switching companies, charge people who don't get discounts even more
Prop 34: repeal dealth penalty
Prop 35: expands human trafficking laws
Prop 36: repeal three strikes law for non-violent felons
Prop 37: GMO food labelling
Prop 38: another school tax proposition
Prop 39: increases income tax on multistate corporations who sell in CA
Prop 40: allows the nonpartisan redistricting to continue going into effect
Click to expand...

pick some good ones, i'll be moving there next year. Time to bail on Least Coast
 
H

Half and half

Member
If Obama can find a moment between hanging out on The View and playing golf, he should consider a trip to visit the Sensata protesters. Take some photos, explain what he'll do to help...um..."keep American jobs in America." Maybe it would help bring some media attention to it.
 
D

Downhome

Member
JCizzle said:
Of course he'll take responsibility. I don't think it's a gotcha moment at all.
Click to expand...

Joe Biden sure didn't hint at the two of them taking any responsibility at all for it in the VP debate. If anything he tossed up his hands and said to not blame the two of them.
 
D

Dr. Pangloss

Member
Dreamcaster said:
Man, that would cause some squirming. "Mr. President, Secretary Clinton took responsibility for the security lapse in Libya and said the Buck Stops With her. President Truman had a sign on his desk that said "The Buck Stops Here" and I fundamentally believe the buck stops with the President. Do you take any responsibility for the disaster in Libya and the loss of 4 Americans?"

How does he get out of that? I think the best thing he could say is "This happened on my watch and yes, I take responsibility." Anything else will come off bad.
Click to expand...

The rules say the candidate can't make direct questions or pledges to one another.
 
R

ryutaro's mama

Member
Dr. Pangloss said:
The rules say the candidate can't make direct questions or pledges to one another.
Click to expand...

He doesn't have to present this question to Obama. He can direct it as, "Now we have a President that will allow his Secretary of State to take the blame for a failure of his administration. I can guarantee to as President that, as in the words of Truman, "The buck stops here."
 
D

Dr. Pangloss

Member
Had an interesting thought today. Picture this scenario: Obama loses the election, but the Democrats retain the Senate due to Republican incompetence like in 2010. Since the fiscal cliff is before inauguration day, should Obama let us go over it in order to give the Democrats in the Senate maximum leverage for negotiating?
 
P

Pickles the Firecat

Banned
Cyan said:
Thoughts after just a quick glance:

Yes: 34, 36 (fuck yes, about damn time), 40 (not really a choice here, there isn't even a "No" argument)
No: 31, 32, 33, 35, 37
Needs further research (therefore "No" for now): 30, 38, 39
Click to expand...
You already addressed this, but http://vote.good.is is a decent proposition guide if anyone else is looking. They have state-by-state looks, so California for example can be found at http://vote.good.is/california
 
C

coldfoot

Banned
Cyan said:
Thoughts after just a quick glance:

Yes: 34, 36 (fuck yes, about damn time), 40 (not really a choice here, there isn't even a "No" argument)
No: 31, 32, 33, 35, 37
Needs further research (therefore "No" for now): 30, 38, 39
Click to expand...

What's wrong with GMO food labeling?
 
C

Cloudy

Banned
AlteredBeast said:
That was really nice.

BTW, got a democratic pollster that called the house, and just because they didn't give me an option for "other" in the presidential race (ie: Jill Stein or Gary Johnson), I said Romney, just so they don't get their hopes up. I wonder how often polls are off because of people like me...
Click to expand...

You're "not" voting for Romney?

PS: Romney is 50-46 LV on Gallup. Panic!
 
S

Stinkles

Clothed, sober, cooperative
AlteredBeast said:
That was really nice.

BTW, got a democratic pollster that called the house, and just because they didn't give me an option for "other" in the presidential race (ie: Jill Stein or Gary Johnson), I said Romney, just so they don't get their hopes up. I wonder how often polls are off because of people like me...
Click to expand...

I doubt they are wildly off, because most people who'd choose "other" in that circumstance would choose Romney in real life, or stay home.
 
S

schuelma

Wastes hours checking old Famitsu software data, but that's why we love him.
pigeon said:
Obama gained in RAND and Ipsos, lost in Gallup. Rasmussen data continues to be utterly worthless. Not exactly probative.
Click to expand...

Gallup is the standard, and those 2 polls only seem to have gained a lot of credibility here the last few days when Gallup failed to show Obama coming back.

I think there is some cherry picking going on.
 
E

eBay Huckster

Member
fairly sure RAND at least has been cited in poligaf since their first releases this cycle, largely by myself & black mamba (i know i've been posting about them since august)

don't know about ipsos, i've only been familiar w/ their NON-american polling before now
 
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