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PoliGAF 2013 |OT1| Never mind, Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

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B

Black Mamba

Member
tanooki141 said:
Most importantly to me, civil rights, things like the Patriot Act and the provision in the NDAA that allows for infinite detention.
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that's one of the few things. What else?

Do you know he is against the Civil Rights Acts? I mean it's great that he's against the Patriot Act and all but there's needs to be more than just that.
 
G

GaimeGuy

Volunteer Deputy Campaign Director, Obama for America '16
Rocket Scientist said:
The US spends more dollars per person on government health care than dem socialist countries lol. Source: Ezra Klein. On my phone so I can't link to the chartz.
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Several reasons for this:
#1: The government is forbidden from negotiating for lower prices with pharmaceuticals. It has less bargaining power with local pharmaceuticals than local insurance companies, foreign insurance companies, and foreign governments do. And that is because conservatives philosophically opposed to the concept of "big government" have self-restricted their own program, making it the worst, rather than the best, it can be. It is actually cheaper for the US government if Canadian and European companies and governments buy american pharmaceuticals, and then the US government re-imports the medicine by purchasing them directly from foreign governments and pays the shipping costs to send them across the ocean and go through customs. Unfortunately, conservatives banned that, too. So the only way for the US government to participate is to buy things in larger volumes and at higher unit prices than everyone else.

#2: The high cost of health care disuades people from pursuing preventative health care and increases the use of high-expense emergency services.
#3: We view mental health problems as attitude issues rather than medical problems. Only the east asian countries
#4: Instead of pooling individuals together, we segregative people into different pools based on employment status, age, physical/mental deficiences that affect their participation in the labor pool, and economic status. The more groups you segregate people into, and the more these groups differ, the more you increase costs and magnify, rather than reduce, the influence of risk.
#5: Rather than restricting the prices from the supply side or requiring justification for price increases, we attempt to increase participation on the demand side by subsidizeing the supply side costs, and we do so based on usage rather than need.

It's like the opposite of how insurance is supposed to work conceptually.
 
P

pigeon

Banned
tanooki141 said:
Most importantly to me, civil rights, things like the Patriot Act and the provision in the NDAA that allows for infinite detention.
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Seriously, people, how can you say Rand Paul is good on civil rights when he opposes the CIVIL RIGHTS ACT?

Unless your civil rights weren't affected by the Civil Rights Act, I guess, which I suppose must be nice.
 
Jackben

Jackben

bitch I'm taking calls.
President Barack Obama violated the Constitution when he bypassed the Senate to fill vacancies on a labor relations panel, a federal appeals court panel ruled Friday

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57565869/court-obama-appointments-are-unconstitutional/
A three-judge panel of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit said that Obama did not have the power to make three recess appointments last year to the National Labor Relations Board.

The unanimous decision is an embarrassing setback for the president, who made the appointments after Senate Republicans spent months blocking his choices for an agency they contended was biased in favor of unions.

The ruling also throws into question Obama's recess appointment of Richard Cordray to head the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau. Cordray's appointment, also made under the recess circumstance, has been challenged in a separate case.

If the decision stands, it means hundreds of decisions issued by the board over more than a year are invalid. It also would leave the five-member labor board with just one validly appointed member, effectively shutting it down. The board is allowed to issue decisions only when it has at least three sitting members.
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G

GaimeGuy

Volunteer Deputy Campaign Director, Obama for America '16
lol @ the ron paul talk.

Ron paul's idea of governing is to either A: Not do anything or B: Let others (the states, or corporations, or individuals who may be better protected if there were certain standards in place that were established by the government instead of being left to their own devices) handle it.

The only stance of his I applaud is wanting to cut down on the military, but he would also be the type to stand idly by and let someone like a Muammar Gaddafi turn Libya into another Rwanda or Darfur, and would rather let the aids epidemic wipe out africa than do what bush did and donate a little bit of resources to helping our neighbors across the ocean. He is strictly against any humanitarianism. I bet he opposed any aid to Japan after that massive tsunami as well (haven't checked his record on that).

I'm sure he supports the Riegle-Neal Interstate Banking and Branching Efficiency Act of 1994 and every other race-to-the-bottom economic policy, and would have had no problem letting every major financial institution and asset in the country blow up back in 2008, dragging it down to a depression. Probably thinks segregation should be left up to states and local communities to decide to implement or not implement, and I know he doesn't think the feds should have the authority to supercede the states in opposition of the 14th amendment.

Has no problem supporting DOMA or DADT though, and would get rid of social security in the name of promoting complete personal financial freedom over ensuring a teeny tiny financial safety net for people in retirement, and he thinks the private health insurance companies treated seniors so well back in the 50s and 60s that he'd like to see medicare turned into a vouture program.

Oh, sure, he opposes the war on drugs (probaby even when actions endanger others knowing him), and wants to cut back on the military industrial complex, and he hits a few good notes when it comes to SOME individual rights and SOME military policy, but he's a loon on the vast majority of his views, especially economically and helping the most vulnerable and compromised members of humanity. His philosophy should have died after the Gilded Age.
 
A

Amir0x

Banned
Tim-E said:
Anyone familiar with PoliGAF threads would know that a blog done by us would be various degrees of "left." it's a blog, not a news site, we don't have to play the beltway "both sides!!!" card if we don't believe it. Unless someone wants to for some reason, I doubt anyone is going to write a counter to a "liberal" post if they legitimately don't believe it.
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There are definitely some libertarian values I hold that I'd make posts about.

I just don't think such posts can peacefully coexist on a site so forcefully one slant or the other. It'd just seem like odd man out, i think
 
A

Amir0x

Banned
the best thing out of any of the two Obama campaigns to me was that one video they had in 2008. It was such a sweet, heart breaking and yet uplifting story at the same time.

In it, a black man who was over a hundred years old (or close, anyway) was working at an Obama campaign office. And of course, he'd seen all the dramatic changes in the civil rights movement due to his age. And in a quiet little heartrending moment, he says something like

'You know... when you get my age, everyone you know is dead. There's nobody alive anymore from my family or friends (as he says this, his voice breaks a little). I'm the last one left. But... to work here and see the next generation so passionate about this candidate... it makes me feel like so wonderful. These are just amazing people.'

It was so simultaneously sad and inspiring that I think my emotions quit on me that day
 
G

GhaleonEB

Member
Dax01 said:
Now I'm hoping SCOTUS upholds the DC decision. Didn't think of this.

https://twitter.com/ezraklein/status/294916383043637249
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I love Ezra's policy chops, but I think he often gets the politics wrong. I don't see the filibuster budging on appointments any time soon, especially with this in place. The GOP has been aggressively blocking all appointments and even the Senate recess process specifically to achieve this result. A non-funtioning CFPB and labor board are what they wanted, and may recieve. I don't think that alone will get Dems to go nuclear, since nothing in the past four years convinced them to.
 
T

The Librarian

Banned
GhaleonEB said:
I love Ezra's policy chops, but I think he often gets the politics wrong. I don't see the filibuster budging on appointments any time soon, especially with this in place. The GOP has been aggressively blocking all appointments and even the Senate recess process specifically to achieve this result. A non-funtioning CFPB and labor board are what they wanted, and may recieve. I don't think that alone will get Dems to go nuclear, since nothing in the past four years convinced them to.
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Even so, nothing wrong with more pressure to address the problem. Can't hurt the cause.
 
A

Amir0x

Banned
Rocket Scientist said:
Got a link or name handy? Otherwise I'll check google.
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I was trying to look for it but they really don't have the 2008 campaign videos well organized anymore that I can find

I'm sure someone in this thread remembers the video though and can hone in on the name of it if they think. I can't remember what the video was called... :(
 
R

Rocket Scientist

Member
Amir0x said:
I was trying to look for it but they really don't have the 2008 campaign videos well organized anymore that I can find

I'm sure someone in this thread remembers the video though and can hone in on the name of it if they think. I can't remember what the video was called... :(
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No problem. Maybe I'll run into it.
 
Z

zero shift

Banned
A sick and twisted side of me would enjoy seeing Ron Paul be elected just to see how much he'd fuck up the country. I dream of having a Ron Paul and a mindless party to follow him so he'd put the United States at the level of Somalia or to apply a modern take on some dysatopian cyberpunk universe.

Sirpopopop said:
Ehh... smart conservatives do exist.

Problem is no one on the level of Becker or Posner post on GAF.
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I admit that I wasn't particularly impressed by this post: http://www.becker-posner-blog.com/2...states-lag-behind-other-countries-becker.html

Though I admit it seems to be the most rational Conversative blog I've read.

GaimeGuy said:
It's like the opposite of how insurance is supposed to work conceptually.
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Thats because health care should not be ran like an insurance company. But that won't stop the American right. Its only a matter of time before they really try to put the "successful" Chiliean models of the pension system (the one where one third of the country isn't covered) and the education system (with education scores lower than Mexico) to the country in a much more serious way then they already have.
 
G

gcubed

Member
so the court majority also said that only openings that originated in that recess can be recess appointed. That invalidates decades of appointments doesn't it?
 
G

Gotchaye

Member
gcubed said:
so the court majority also said that only openings that originated in that recess can be recess appointed. That invalidates decades of appointments doesn't it?
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This is the sort of thing that strikes me as bizarre about the ruling. At the very least it seems like the final decision here has to be "don't do it again, but no action taken by people who were unlawfully recess-appointed is invalidated".
 
T

The Librarian

Banned
Cyan said:
Sure, but the cause isn't getting rid of the filibuster, it's getting shit done. Getting rid of or toning down the filibuster is a means to that end.

If we have to stop anything getting done in order to get rid of the filibuster, it sort of defeats the purpose.
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I think you're misunderstanding me here.

Nominees get filibustered -> vacant posts in federal government -> things aren't as efficient -> things can't get done or can't get done as well as they should -> puts more pressure to eliminate filibuster, at the very least nominees. This is what I meant by "can't hurt the cause." Has Obama even nominated people to IPAB yet? If he can't recess appoint them, how is that board going to work? I don't see why the GOP would go along with helping anyone be voted to that board, and that board is very important to keeping Medicare costs under control in the future.

Granted, the GOP has been filibustering nominees since Scott Brown, but Obama has always had the option of using a recess appointment. If he can't do that, how's he going to fill vacant posts in his administration? There's a lot of positions that need to be filled to carry out the healthcare law.
 
S

speculawyer

Member
gcubed said:
Was on my Google reader as well. Head of the committee won't bring it to a vote. Basically said he won't do it unless every state does it
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It is nice to know there are still some in the GOP that respect comity. Of course, in the long run I feel that pulling such shenanigans will backfire big-time. It doesn't always even take a long time . . . I think the GOP's voter suppression efforts back-fired in 2012 and actually improved minority turn-out because voters felt "Fuck if I am going to let them take my vote."
 
S

speculawyer

Member
The whole Rand Paul thing seems like just propagating the "family business" of Ron Paul style faux-Libertarianism. It is mainly GOP orthodoxy with a touch of isolationism and less Federal power. Much of the supposed 'better on civil rights' stuff is not real . . . they are more than happy to violate civil rights but they just want to do it on the state level. Instead of being real Libertarians, the Pauls retain the GOP anti-gay, anti-abortion, anti-separation-of-church-and-state stuff.

So the Paul's are basically GOP-lite.

The Pauls have been really good of giving an impression that they support things that the do not. Like gay marriage.
 
F

Fenderputty

Banned
speculawyer said:
The whole Rand Paul thing seems like just propagating the "family business" of Ron Paul style faux-Libertarianism. It is mainly GOP orthodoxy with a touch of isolationism and less Federal power. Much of the supposed 'better on civil rights' stuff is not real . . . they are more than happy to violate civil rights but they just want to do it on the state level. Instead of being real Libertarians, the Pauls retain the GOP anti-gay, anti-abortion, anti-separation-of-church-and-state stuff.So the Paul's are basically GOP-lite.

The Pauls have been really good of giving an impression that they support things that the do not. Like gay marriage.
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Exactly.
 
B

Black Mamba

Member
Apaprenlty Ran Paul tried a Glenn Beck conspiracy theory during the hearings with Hillary:

“Is the U.S. involved with any procuring of weapons, transfer of weapons, buying, selling, anyhow transferring weapons to Turkey out of Libya?” he asked.

A clearly confused Clinton responded to the best of her ability:
CLINTON: To Turkey? I will have to take that question for the record. Nobody has ever raised that with me.

PAUL: It’s been in news reports that ships have been leaving from Libya and that they may have weapons and what I’d like to know is the annex that was close by, were they involved with procuring, buying, selling, obtaining weapons and were any of these weapons being transferred to other countries, any countries, Turkey included?

Clinton responded that Paul would have to take up his question with “the agency running the annex,” an oblique reference to the fact that the Central Intelligence Agency was operating out of the building in question. Paul’s inquiry about Turkey seems less odd if you’re familiar with Glenn Beck-inspired conspiracy theories that have been circulating among right-wing websites since the attacks in Libya.
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Here's the beck link: http://www.therightscoop.com/must-w...or-stevens-to-funnel-arms-to-libya-and-syria/

lol
 
B

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
OmniOne said:
Obama and Hillary doing a joint interview.

I wonder what this will be about? Slowly passing the torch perhaps?
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They're doing a formal "game recognize game" moment, just so we all know what's up.

Clevinger said:
By the way, Fox News just dumped Palin (or if you want to believe her people, she decided not to renew her contract).

2016, anyone? She's going to be desperate for attention and ways to make money by then.
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Palin vs the Cain Train!

I can only hope for such a thing...
 
C

Clevinger

Member
By the way, Fox News just dumped Palin (or if you want to believe her people, she decided not to renew her contract).

2016, anyone? She's going to be desperate for attention and ways to make money by then.
 
S

speculawyer

Member
Clevinger said:
By the way, Fox News just dumped Palin (or if you want to believe her people, she decided not to renew her contract).

2016, anyone? She's going to be desperate for attention and ways to make money by then.
Click to expand...

Her performance on election night was spectacular. It seems like she was about to start crying.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jb_r8lQgG1g


FyreWulff said:
Republicans still hell bent on exposing a CIA operation and endangering even more agents overseas.
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That question was really WTF. Even if she did know, why would she say in public? And what kind of idiot would ask that?

And Turkey is NATO country. They have plenty of our weaponry. What the hell would the conspiracy be?
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
Politico is trying to frame the 60 Minutes thing as a slight on Biden. Seriously? Hillary is basically on a victory tour, and is making her exit in the highest possible fashion. Why wouldn't she do an interview with Obama?

I'd imagine she'll also get some sappy send off at the White House, perhaps with Obama shedding some tears.
 
C

ClovingWestbrook

Banned
PhoenixDark said:
Politico is trying to frame the 60 Minutes thing as a slight on Biden. Seriously? Hillary is basically on a victory tour, and is making her exit in the highest possible fashion. Why wouldn't she do an interview with Obama?

I'd imagine she'll also get some sappy send off at the White House, perhaps with Obama shedding some tears.
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Tears that he will no longer have access to the sweet smell of the butch of Benghazi's moisture?
 
C

Cheebo

Banned
PhoenixDark said:
Politico is trying to frame the 60 Minutes thing as a slight on Biden. Seriously? Hillary is basically on a victory tour, and is making her exit in the highest possible fashion. Why wouldn't she do an interview with Obama?

I'd imagine she'll also get some sappy send off at the White House, perhaps with Obama shedding some tears.
Click to expand...

Even if he is, who cares? I don't think there is a single democrat who doesn't want Hillary to succeed Obama. No other Democrat in the wings come close to her popularity or political ability. Sorry Joe, I love you but you'd never win a general election.
 
T

The Librarian

Banned
I like how when a male politician gets emotional, it's moving and displaying true affection. When a woman does it, though, it's a tactic used to avoid questions and garner sympathy from the media.
 
C

Chumly

Member
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