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[Manmademan]

Then it's agreed. We must ban driving.

Curious how you came to that conclusion.

Your assertion was that drugs weren't equivalent to alcohol, "just because" the effects were worse.

It's been shown here that it's not true. The effects of alcohol on the body are worse than the effects of marijuana, cocaine, or heroin. The effects of alcohol on society are just as bad, if not worse. The effects of alcohol on one's ability to DRIVE is many times worse than every other drug combined- even when there is no alcohol actively in your system (say, from a hangover) you are driving worse than someone ripping hits from a bong at the steering wheel. On the other hand, someone who smoked a joint 8 hours ago isn't any more impaired than someone who's never had a drink in his life.

Your argument for why drugs are worse than alcohol basically comes down to pot smokers are inconsiderate and kind of annoy you. It doesn't really hold a lot of weight.

 

[The Librarian]

This one is interesting- though i agree that everyone being required to speak english would make MY life a lot easier, it's also my understanding that the US is unusual in western nations in that it's citizens are almost completely ignorant of foreign languages to a fault.

Spanish is the #4 most spoken language in the world (english is #2, behind mandarin and ahead of hindustani) so it's not like making an effort for americans to be bilingual wouldn't have utility- think of the business and tourism that could be done with latin america, if the language barrier wasn't an issue.

This is one of those things that's probably good to change in the long run. Bilingualism isn't always a bad thing- and on a related note: get us on the metric system already.

I have no problems with bilingualism, it's the singularity of Spanish against all other languages. If we're going to be bilingual, I'd rather see a whole bunch of languages come for the forefront. German, French, Italian, as well as Spanish. And I don't care about business and tourism from Latin America more than unity among America's populace. I don't like Spanish's prominence in the country. If Germany and France have something equivalent to party conventions, do we see them making live, bilingual speeches when addressing their citizens?

And your proposal for Puerto Rico and Guam is....? (Federally funded schools where english is the second foreign language)

And do you think maybe the immigrants arent learning spanish not because they dont want to - but because they cant fit it into their 12 hour workday and $7.25 an hour budget?

You argue that previous generations DID learn english. Really? Youre telling me there arent 75 year old polish men who lives in the US for 50 years that dont know english above the 1st grade level? Ever been to chinatown?

I find that statement ignorant and without factual basis.

What about Puerto Rico and Guam? They're islands. Let their citizens do what they want there. We shouldn't even have them. If not, just make an exception in their case. I address your second point in my post. As for your third point, you're confusing my position on a national versus a local scale, and obviously a lot of them did learn English because we're not seeing Polish-subtitled products everywhere. I don't see Chinese subtitled on every product, nor do I see Chinese birthday cards whenever I'm in CVS. I see that with Spanish. Oh, and I can never tell when you're being serious.

 

[jamesinclair]

Curious how you came to that conclusion.

Your assertion was that drugs weren't equivalent to alcohol, "just because" the effects were worse.

It's been shown here that it's not true. The effects of alcohol on the body are worse than the effects of marijuana, cocaine, or heroin. The effects of alcohol on society are just as bad, if not worse. The effects of alcohol on one's ability to DRIVE is many times worse than every other drug combined- even when there is no alcohol in your system you are driving worse than someone actively under the influence of marijuana.

Your argument for why drugs are worse than alcohol basically comes down to pot smokers are inconsiderate and kind of annoy you. It doesn't really hold a lot of weight.

No, when it comes to driving, it shouldnt be done under any impaired condition.

Using the alcohol scale...

.10 is bad. .12 is worse. I dont want anyone driving under either of those. If pot is .09, thats great.....shouldnt be driving either.


....and BTW, I think the US alcohol limit should be lowered to .05, like the rest of the civilized world.

What about Puerto Rico and Guam? They're islands. Let their citizens do what they want there. We shouldn't even have them. If not, just make an exception in their case. I address your second point in my post. As for your third point, you're confusing my position on a national versus a local scale, and obviously a lot of them did learn English because we're not seeing Polish-subtitled products everywhere. I don't see Chinese subtitled on every product, nor do I see Chinese birthday cards whenever I'm in CVS. I see that with Spanish. Oh, and I can never tell when you're being serious.

Yeah, theyre island. And that people of PR are US citizens educated in spanish speaking schools. Why should they learn english to please you? Why should their entire system of government change because you dislike seeing signs in two languages?


You dont see Polish everywhere because those families are on their 2nd or 3rd generation. THEY know english. Grampa immigrant most likely doesnt.

And youve never seen other languages anywhere, really?

The San Jose light rail has instructions in english, spanish and vietnamese. Detroit I believe has English and Somali on their buses. Go to LA or SF and youre going to see a shitton of chinese signs and products in supermarkets.

And why does it bother you that CVS has chosen to stock greeting cards in multiple languages? Why is this an issue?

 

[sc0la]

James and Chichikov sitting in a tree, S, M, O, K, I, N, G

Edit:
The only permanent solution to the problem of people driving under the influence of a controlled substance is the proliferation autonomous self driving vehicles.

 

[Manmademan]

I have no problems with bilingualism, it's the singularity of Spanish against all other languages. If we're going to be bilingual, I'd rather see a whole bunch of languages come for the forefront. German, French, Italian, as well as Spanish.

The amount of german, french, and italian speakers in the country and worldwide is low enough to make this impractical. Of the languages you listed, only french really comes close to being worth it- being the #10 most spoken language worldwide. If we're going to start where it makes the most sense, spanish is pretty much it.

And I don't care about business and tourism from Latin America more than unity among America's populace. I don't like Spanish's prominence in the country. If Germany and France have something equivalent to party conventions, do we see them making live, bilingual speeches when addressing their citizens?

Latin america along with canada is our closest neighbor- and there are a lot more latin americans than there are canadians. I think the benefit to business is important here- we're in the middle of a recession. better relations could mean more jobs for americans.

And I can't speak for germany and france, but Canada (or at least quebec) seems to handle the bilingual issue re: english and french without any real issues.

As for your third point, you're confusing my position on a national versus a local scale, and obviously a lot of them did learn English because we're not seeing Polish-subtitled products everywhere. I don't see Chinese subtitled on every product, nor do I see Chinese birthday cards whenever I'm in CVS. I see that with Spanish. Oh, and I can never tell when you're being serious.

well the difference here is that the original polish and chinese immigrants basically came over in limited waves, which were cut off after a period of time. The original immigrants died off, and their children and grandchildren gradually assimilated and learned the language.

The spanish speaking populace is in a different position. Second and Third generation immigrants typically speak english quite well- we've just had nonstop uncontrolled illegal immigration across the border for the past 40 years or whatever, so there's a constant inflow of first generation immigrants. This was not the case with the ellis island crowd.

 

[besada]

It's interesting that you picked Germany and France as examples, rather than our neighbor to the north.

Regardless, Obama isn't going to push for any laws regarding English as an official language, nor are any Democrats. It's a traditional right-wing policy that even they've largely given up on. It's completely unnecessary, as English is already the de facto national language, while Spanish continues --and will continue -- to be our de facto secondary language.

 

[Chichikov]

Thats what youre going to go with, really?

Freedom to inconvenience (and give a contact high) to others > Freedom of not being inconvenienced.

Why you think that someone who want to get stoned in a show and can't is less inconvenienced than someone who wants to not get a whiff of weed during a show and does?

(and not receiving a contact high).

First of all, contact high is not a real thing, it's bullshit stoners invented, probably when high.
I assume you're talking about getting high from 2nd hand pot smoking, and I have never ever been to a show where such thing was close to being possible, and I've seen all the usual suspects, from Willie Nelson through Snoop Dog to Kruder and Dorfmeister.
Is that a real concern you have?

James and Chichikov sitting in a tree, S, M, O, K, I, N, G

OH SHIT TWO PEOPLE ARE DISAGREEING, ALERT TO POLICE!

 

[zero shift]

Good length.

Thanks. I decided to shorten it once you guys commented.

 

[Fenderputty]

We lack the testing regardless of its legality. So really, your argument is that legality would cause a rise in usage and therefore increased rates of impaired driving. I would like to see evidence of such.

 

[Ether_Snake]

I still haven't read arguments explaining why legalizing marijuana should imply selling marijuana to be smoked. It can be consumed like any other drug. If I was the government I would legalize marijuana as a drug not as another fucking cigarette. Smoking is banned anyway now pretty much everywhere except outside, the same should apply to marijuana. Hemp should be used to do all sorts of things unrelated to drug usage too.

 

[Manmademan]

I still haven't read arguments explaining why legalizing marijuana should imply selling marijuana to be smoked. It can be consumed like any other drug. If I was the government I would legalize marijuana as a drug not as another fucking cigarette. Smoking is banned anyway now pretty much everywhere except outside, the same should apply to marijuana. Hemp should be used to do all sorts of things unrelated to drug usage too.

your post suddenly gave me visions of people using marijuana like chewing tobacco- with spittoons etc.

Could that work? is this a thing anywhere?

 

[Chichikov]

I still haven't read arguments explaining why legalizing marijuana should imply selling marijuana to be smoked. It can be consumed like any other drug. If I was the government I would legalize marijuana as a drug not as another fucking cigarette. Smoking is banned anyway now pretty much everywhere except outside, the same should apply to marijuana. Hemp should be used to do all sorts of things unrelated to drug usage too.

Because honestly, I don't think it's the business of the government.
Generally, I think it's my god given right to kill myself any way I like, from skydiving, through cheeseburgers to cigarettes.
I think there might be some exceptions where the public good compel us to erode that principle, but I believe that -

• the harm from pot smoking is not close to that bar.
• those issues are usually better addressed by making it very hard to get rich from selling those things, rather than pushing them to the black market.

your post suddenly gave me visions of people using marijuana like chewing tobacco- with spittoons etc.

Could that work? is this a thing anywhere?

Just chewing marijuana will not get you high, though there might be some process that will allow that scenario to happen (you generally need to heat the plant to extract the psychoactive ingredient).

 

[PhoenixDark]

Illegal weed is bad because people will just get weed anyway
We need to make certain guns illegal to stop people from getting them

I should write an article on the blog about this. It needs some non liberal views, afterall

 

[Chichikov]

Illegal weed is bad because people will just get weed anyway
We need to make certain guns illegal to stop people from getting them

I should write an article on the blog about this. It needs some non liberal views, afterall

That's a terrible false equivalency, but it's nice to see you branch out your trolling.
I say go for it, it will no doubt generate page views.

 

[Diablos]

Illegal weed is bad because people will just get weed anyway
We need to make certain guns illegal to stop people from getting them

I should write an article on the blog about this. It needs some non liberal views, afterall

why do you refrain from using a lot of punctuation

i mean if its like posting a poll or something i understand

or making a very simple point, or if you are tired

but in my mind i read your comments and i just hear rambling from a person with tourette syndrome or something

 

[Chichikov]

why do you refrain from using a lot of punctuation

i mean if its like posting a poll or something i understand

or making a very simple point, or if you are tired

but in my mind i read your comments and i just hear rambling from a person with tourette syndrome or something

Of all the things you can give PD shit about...
Are we really down to this level now?

 

[adamsappel]

PoliGAF is full of liberals (like myself). For you guys, is there an issue (if any) for which you take a conservative stance?

I support the death penalty. I don't think every single murderer should be killed, and I believe rehabilitation is possible for anyone, but some crimes are so heinous that those perpetrators forfeit their right to life. Mass murderers, serial killers, rapists who murder their victims, etc.

I think we should have compulsory military (National Guard) or civil (AmeriCorps) service.

One can consume alcohol in a crowded room with zero effect on everyone around them.
Smoking pot, on the other hand, involves smoking - something the western world is trying to phase out. If you light up, everyone around you has to deal with the stench and the possible side effects.

Marijuana can be ingested or vaporized with no effect to bystanders (not that people actually get "contact high" unless you're in a paper bag with them).

I would also rather be on the road with stoned drivers than drunk ones. But, while I think drugs should be legalized, I don't have any problem with increasing penalties for their abuse. Sit on your couch and bake, then walk everywhere, stoners.

 

[sc0la]

OH SHIT TWO PEOPLE ARE DISAGREEING, ALERT TO POLICE!

call the whambulance!

Edit: for what's its worth I think a contact high is a real thing, but only at Damian Marley concerts.

 

[Chichikov]

I don't know what's going on in here. I thought it was all backpats all the time, now that Kosmo's been banned (three times).

jamesinclair is worse than Hitler and kosmo combined.

 

[Rocket Scientist]

I don't know what's going on in here. I thought it was all backpats all the time, now that Kosmo's been banned (three times).

I wish we had a solid conservative troll again.

 

[jamesinclair]

jamesinclair is worse than Hitler and kosmo combined.

That's not what your mother said last night

 

[watershed]

I support the death penalty. I don't think every single murderer should be killed, and I believe rehabilitation is possible for anyone, but some crimes are so heinous that those perpetrators forfeit their right to life. Mass murderers, serial killers, rapists who murder their victims, etc.

I think we should have compulsory military (National Guard) or civil (AmeriCorps) service.

I agree with both of these.

 

[Oblivion]

Why is that if the government steals money from people via taxes, it's perfectly fine, but if I steal money from people, I go to jail?

 

[Trouble]

Why is that if the government steals money from people via taxes, it's perfectly fine, but if I steal money from people, I go to jail?

What necessary services for a functioning society do you provide?

 

[way more]

Why is that if the government steals money from people via taxes, it's perfectly fine, but if I steal money from people, I go to jail?

Why can I balance my checking account but the government can't?

 

[GhaleonEB]

Why can I balance my checking account but the government can't?

Just reduce your income. That will lead to increased income.

 

[jamesinclair]

Why is setting homes on fire bad, but pot on fire good?

 

[Oblivion]

What necessary services for a functioning society do you provide?

Vigilantism?

 

[Chichikov]

Pretending to be herp derp dum consturbatives will sure help the political diversity of this thread, I'm certain of it.

 

[Trouble]

Vigilantism?

I'll allow it.

 

[B-Dubs]

Pretending to be herp derp dum consturbatives will sure help the political diversity of this thread, I'm certain of it.

No doubt.

Now have I told you all about magic vaginas?

 

[RDreamer]

I support the death penalty. I don't think every single murderer should be killed, and I believe rehabilitation is possible for anyone, but some crimes are so heinous that those perpetrators forfeit their right to life. Mass murderers, serial killers, rapists who murder their victims, etc.

My problem with the death penalty is mainly that we sometimes don't know things for absolute certain. I'm not comfortable putting people to death if they might not have done it. There have just been too many cases where someone has been in prison for a very long time only to have new DNA evidence come out and prove he was innocent.

So I'd say I'm philosophically for it in some cases, like the cases you mentioned, but I'm just uncertain about trusting that we'll be putting the right ones to death. There are cases where we do know for certain, though, and I'd be alright with it in some of those cases.

 

[Carpe Libertatem]

My problem with the death penalty is mainly that we sometimes don't know things for absolute certain. I'm not comfortable putting people to death if they might not have done it. There have just been too many cases where someone has been in prison for a very long time only to have new DNA evidence come out and prove he was innocent.

So I'd say I'm philosophically for it in some cases, like the cases you mentioned, but I'm just uncertain about trusting that we'll be putting the right ones to death. There are cases where we do know for certain, though, and I'd be alright with it in some of those cases.

This, and it's been shown to cost more.

I'm pretty conservative on guns. I support things like background checks and maybe a national gun registry, but don't want to ban any gun that is currently legal (semi-autos, shotguns, handguns, not stuff like autos/grenade launchers). There is a need for AR-15s for some people.

 

[AntoneM]

This, and it's been shown to cost more.

I'm pretty conservative on guns. I support things like background checks and maybe a national gun registry, but don't want to ban any gun that is currently legal (semi-autos, shotguns, handguns, not stuff like autos/grenade launchers). There is a need for AR-15s for some people.

Some people also "need" to fuck 12 year olds.

 

[RDreamer]

Some of you were curious and outraged when I mentioned some Glenn Grothman antics yesterday. That inspired me to make a rather lengthy post of most the things I remember him saying or doing. There's probably many many more things he's done, but it's kind of hard to find. Most of the google results now no matter what you type in are for his stupid kwanzaa stuff.

Seriously, though, the guy's a conspiracy theory nutcase, and it pains me that he enjoyes overwhelming support here. He is a terrible human being who really really hates women.

Some people also "need" to fuck 12 year olds.

Well that escalated quickly...

 

[TheLaughingStock]

Why is that if the government steals money from people via taxes, it's perfectly fine, but if I steal money from people, I go to jail?

Instead of goofing off you should've been in the room when we decided to create governments.

 

[Carpe Libertatem]

Some people also "need" to fuck 12 year olds.

Dumb response from someone who has probably put in a couple minutes of thought into their opinions. Here's an actual situation in which an AR-15 could be needed:

A family owns a farm with a lot of livestock - let's say cows for simplicity's sake. If a predator - for example a wolf or coyote - were to attempt to kill their cows, what do you think the best course of action is? Let the predator kill your livestock - therefore killing your primary source of income (and then hope it doesn't come for your family)? Bust out a bolt-action hunting rifle and pray you hit it and that there's not more than one (because a bolt-action rifle is pretty slow to reload, comparatively)? Get a handgun and run up to the predator because handguns are inaccurate at range? Do that, but with a shotgun instead of a handgun? Or use a semi-automatic rifle, which is faster than bolt-action rifle and more accurate than a handgun?

It probably sounds bizarre to people who have lived in the city or suburbs their entire life, but that can happen. I deal with hundreds of constituents in the office I work at who call in daily - a lot of them from rural areas who are concerned with that exact situation. It's not an isolated incident. This is reality for many people who live in rural areas where the police may take twenty minutes to get there.

 

[Tim-E]

The Thin Blue Line is a good case against the death penalty.

 

[jamesinclair]

Dumb response from someone who has probably put in a couple minutes of thought into their opinions. Here's an actual situation in which an AR-15 could be needed:

A family owns a farm with a lot of livestock - let's say cows for simplicity's sake. If a predator - for example a wolf or coyote - were to attempt to kill their cows, what do you think the best course of action is? Let the predator kill your livestock - therefore killing your primary source of income (and then hope it doesn't come for your family)? Bust out a bolt-action hunting rifle and pray you hit it and that there's not more than one (because a bolt-action rifle is pretty slow to reload, comparatively)? Get a handgun and run up to the predator because handguns are inaccurate at range? Do that, but with a shotgun instead of a handgun? Or use a semi-automatic rifle, which is faster than bolt-action rifle and more accurate than a handgun?

It probably sounds bizarre to people who have lived in the city or suburbs their entire life, but that can happen. I deal with hundreds of constituents in the office I work at who call in daily - a lot of them from rural areas who are concerned with that exact situation. It's not an isolated incident. This is reality for many people who live in rural areas where the police may take twenty minutes to get there.

Maybe stop murdering defenseless animals?

You know the coyote will run away just from the NOISE of a gunshot right?

 

[The Librarian]

The amount of german, french, and italian speakers in the country and worldwide is low enough to make this impractical. Of the languages you listed, only french really comes close to being worth it- being the #10 most spoken language worldwide. If we're going to start where it makes the most sense, spanish is pretty much it.

Latin america along with canada is our closest neighbor- and there are a lot more latin americans than there are canadians. I think the benefit to business is important here- we're in the middle of a recession. better relations could mean more jobs for americans.

And I can't speak for germany and france, but Canada (or at least quebec) seems to handle the bilingual issue re: english and french without any real issues.

If we're going to start on practicality, there's really no practical reason to learn or practice Spanish, so why bother? And aren't countries in Latin America rather poor? How would the average citizen afford to tour here? How much money can they bring? Furthermore, why should people who were born and raised here have be forced to learn a second language for an immigrant population? They're the ones coming here.

And I didn't mention Canada because Canada is weird in that its French-speaking population is concentrated vastly into one area (Quebec). That's not the case with the US.

well the difference here is that the original polish and chinese immigrants basically came over in limited waves, which were cut off after a period of time. The original immigrants died off, and their children and grandchildren gradually assimilated and learned the language.

The spanish speaking populace is in a different position. Second and Third generation immigrants typically speak english quite well- we've just had nonstop uncontrolled illegal immigration across the border for the past 40 years or whatever, so there's a constant inflow of first generation immigrants. This was not the case with the ellis island crowd.

Which will hopefully stop soon, on its own or with coming immigration reform.

It's interesting that you picked Germany and France as examples, rather than our neighbor to the north.

Regardless, Obama isn't going to push for any laws regarding English as an official language, nor are any Democrats. It's a traditional right-wing policy that even they've largely given up on. It's completely unnecessary, as English is already the de facto national language, while Spanish continues --and will continue -- to be our de facto secondary language.

I never said anything about Obama pushing for a national language (kinda hoping Republicans will push for it), just that he'll have some English-language laws. And that expectation comes from this phrase, which he says whenever he talks about immigration: "...and learn English." A national language law may be unnecessary, but it'll help ensure English's dominance. Besides, I think it's a good idea to have some federal funding to help immigrants learn English to make it easier for immigrants.

 

[Link]

No doubt.

Now have I told you all about magic vaginas?

 

[Tim-E]

How dare those dirty browns speak that foreign talk that they've spoken their entire lives?
If America is supposed to be a place that celebrates it's diversity, why should we force a "national language" that wont matter? Why is it such a great inconvenience that they air commercials in Spanish or they print some Spanish on a box? English isn't going away and you're not going to need to learn Spanish to function in the United States. Its not much different to me than the people who are genuinely afraid of the time when white people will be in the minority. This kind of thinking is alarmist and I think borderline offensive.

Are you one of those people who doesn't like it when Latinos people speak Spanish when you're in a Mexican restaurant because you're afraid that they might be talking about you?

 

[Tim-E]

My daughter has a toy laptop that has a Spanish setting. When she opens it, it says "Hola!" She's already learned to mimic it.

The invasion begins.

 

[Incognito]

Just signed up for two personal class sessions at my university with former Prime Minister Gordon Brown, and former President of Mexico Felipe Calderon. The ~25 of us get an hour with the two leaders and get to ask whatever we want. Brown will be here in two weeks while Calderon is slated for April.

 

[tanooki141]

Maybe stop murdering defenseless animals?

You know the coyote will run away just from the NOISE of a gunshot right?

You don't know how coyotes operate do you?

They come back and will continue to come back, sometimes when you're not there to scare them off.

 

[jamesinclair]

If we're going to start on practicality, there's really no practical reason to learn or practice Spanish, so why bother? And aren't countries in Latin America rather poor? How would the average citizen afford to tour here? How much money can they bring? Furthermore, why should people who were born and raised here have be forced to learn a second language for an immigrant population? They're the ones coming here.
.

I really hope this is a bad joke, and not a plunge into the deep end of the racism pool.

 

[pigeon]

If we're going to start on practicality, there's really no practical reason to learn or practice Spanish, so why bother?

Wait, what? The practical reason to learn Spanish is the same as the practical reason for Europeans to learn French and German -- our neighboring countries speak Spanish, so it allows us to communicate better with our allies and with the people most likely to travel to America. (I mean, the practical reason to learn any language is that it makes you better at every educational pursuit, but let that pass.)

Which will hopefully stop soon, on its own or with coming immigration reform.

The purpose of immigration reform, at least from my perspective, is to make it easier for first generation immigrants to come to America, not harder. The whole problem with immigration right now is that it's too difficult for the people who really want to come to America, and whom America really needs, to actually get in -- and those people probably don't yet speak English!

The question I would really put to you is that you haven't explained why it matters that some Americans don't speak English. (Although not many -- because you need to speak English to interact with the vast majority of society. So you can safely conclude that most people who immigrate but don't speak English find interacting with most of society counterproductive -- probably because it's already pretty racist against them without mandating they learn a language they already have plenty of motivation to learn. People who come to America and don't learn English do it because even if they spoke English they wouldn't be able to get good jobs or good houses. If we really want to encourage people to speak English, that's probably the first place to start fixing stuff.)

 

[Cloudy]

Hilary is definitely running

 

[Tim-E]

Hilary is definitely running

I just now turned it on. What did she say?

 

[AntoneM]

Yeah, I jumped over the line.

I grew up in western North Dakota where there are a lot of coyotes. I worked summers on my grandfathers farm, my uncle's (father side) farm, and my uncle's (mother side) farm. A rifle of any sort is not needed to ward off coyotes, they sure were useful if you had one though. A shot in the air sent them running without having to confront them face to face. However, my cousin and I were usually fine with either driving the tractor at them or making our selves "big" and making a lot of noise to scare them off.

Wolves are different, and the couple thousand of people in the US who have livestock killed by wolves (and for some reason aren't covered by insurance) might need a semi-automatic rifle. In those cases, a special license, thorough application, and background check is possible since the number that would actually need such a weapon is small.