we just hate the policies he supports, or the comical cognitive dissonance he displayed during moments like the SOTU response last night
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PoliGAF 2013 |OT1| Never mind, Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
- Thread starter ClovingWestbrook
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we just hate the policies he supports, or the comical cognitive dissonance he displayed during moments like the SOTU response last night
He's a clown that has no idea what he's talking about. He deserves to be ridiculed whenever such an opportunity comes up.
What I'd like to see is:
- mental health services being necessarily available on all health care plans (with, of course, health care being universal in the first place)
- preventative mental health treatment being treated the same as preventative physical health treatment (free, convenient, routine)
- social services that better assist those with severe mental health issues (better care and vocational systems for the mentally challenged, rehabilitation over incarceration for those with violent/criminal disorders)
- efforts to destigmatize mental health matters among the public (fuck knows how you'd do that)
- additional funding for safe and ethical research into mental health and neurosciences (to improve future treatment of disorders).
I have a feeling that's not what most people are talking about, though.
Rocket Scientist
Member
Okay girls calm down. I was merely inquiring not judging. My why was aimed at why this guy specifically and not why would you do that in general with someone from the other side. If Google is correct then he's apparently from Illinois which explains why they'd be close.
Those are pretty reasonable and I think mostly doable. I think if we were to make preventative mental health care something as routine as preventative physical care, that alone would do wonders to destigmatize it.
Thanks for the answer!
The Librarian
Banned
Papa Joe ain't no girl.
Rocket Scientist
Member
I was bound to misrepresent one of you anyway and I'm scared of you. Papa Joe I could handle.
I hate him just enough.
Seriously though, that was a horrible speech, and it's fucking depressing (if not surprising) to the GOP double down on the "fight Obama above all else" playbook.
Everyone that drives that clown car on national TV deserves all the shit he gets.
I honestly think we need to rethink the whole framework of mental care in this country. It should probably start with a serious scientific push to better understand those conditions and evaluate treatment methods.
You should be. Papa Joe is going to drive his 81 Pontiac Firebird through your living room.
Rocket Scientist
Member
Oh snap now I guess they didn't call it a bird for no reason.
When you hear Lynyrd Skynyrd in the distance, duck.
In August 2011, Rick Rypien, a Vancouver Canucks player, committed suicide, and since then the team and players has been really proactive about raising awareness and destigmatizing mental illness and depression. They relaunched the website mindcheck.ca among other things. The Canucks (along with the other Canadian NHL teams I think) are doing a new push this month called "Hockey talks" to continue raising awareness (http://canucks.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=653292). They've been talking about it nonstop, before games, during the intermissions, after games, on days when they don't have games, etc. Something like this in the US would be nice.
I would say it would be nice if NFL teams or the NFL as a whole did something like this, but I know that they are going to continue to do their best to distance themselves from anything that will bring attention to the potential effect their game has on mental health.
Yea, that point's probably gonna have to come more from tragedy and media than anything a government could do. I mean, government can try, but honestly they'd likely mess it up. Having respected community figures and entertainers take on that task is probably the most sensible approach.
ClovingWestbrook
Banned
I actually fell asleep watching the speech. It was nice but it's just a speech. Won't matter for the most part since we still have the GOP. Even today Boehner rejected an increase in minimum wage.
PhoenixDark
Banned
Overheard some of Morning Joe while out today. Joe's basic take was that Obama was saying he can't get anything done with the congress, and was just focusing on 2014. At what point does someone point out reality: every single thing he focused on in the speech is supported by most of the country. If republicans cannot get behind bipartisan issues everyone supports, who's fault is that?
It's the stupidest shit ever. "Obama is talking about popular things, he's being confrontational!"
It's the stupidest shit ever. "Obama is talking about popular things, he's being confrontational!"
The Librarian
Banned
GhaleonEB, check your PMs.
Jackben
bitch I'm taking calls.
That doesn't make any sense.
Getting paid less helps you gain skills? Is this like how getting the switch helps children build character?
balladofwindfishes
Member
So by not raising MW, that'll magically give them skills
What does this have to do with anything. This would make sense if he were wanting to get rid of internships, but not for opposing a minimum wage.
The Librarian
Banned
If the minimum wage was raised to $9.00, I'd be making more money and have more money to spend.
Jackben
bitch I'm taking calls.
Maybe even on things like education.
Their argument would be that you wouldn't have a job because your place of business couldn't afford you, a presumably unskilled worker.
Proof by metaphor.
The Librarian
Banned
I'm an AV technician at my university. Hardly "unskilled."
Isn't he basically just saying "Seriously, you aren't worth $9. Trust me. We're doing this for your own good. By even hiring you, businesses are doing you a favor."
Kind of a ridiculous analogy, too.
Aaron Strife
Banned
In order for the economy to grow, we need more people in higher paying jobs!
Quick, let's scuttle this proposal to get more people in higher paying jobs.
Quick, let's scuttle this proposal to get more people in higher paying jobs.
Rocket Scientist
Member
My mind just exploded. I can't believe he somehow thinks this is a legitimate argument. The line about dealing with minimum wage for 28 years and raising minimum wage leading to less employment is straight up ass crap too. From what I just saw it was raised in the 90's and that sure as hell wasn't a time when jobs were lost. Where the hell are his real world examples.
jamesinclair
Banned
Because many states raise their wage every year there's a shit ton of examples. cities with higher wages too.
Raising the wage does not lead to higher prices, and in many cases has led to growth in employment
The best line I've seen regarding min wage was on Facebook by a poor guy (almost certainly making minimum wage) I know.
"If raising the minimum wage was so good, why doesn't he raise it to $30?"
I just... ughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
"If raising the minimum wage was so good, why doesn't he raise it to $30?"
I just... ughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
The Librarian
Banned
I sat down outside one of my political classes and got into this semi-debate with a classmate over whether universal pre-K education is constitutional. He said it wasn't. I wasn't really prepared to debate that, so I mainly gave shrugged responses. So, how is universal pre-K education constitutional?
Of course, if you take that stance, then the moon landing was constitutional.
Of course, if you take that stance, then the moon landing was constitutional.
You should have asked him to quote the part in the constitution that bars it.
Aaron Strife
Banned
This should just be common sense. If more places are paying a living wage, there's a chance of attracting more people. Someone might pass up a job flipping burgers at McDonald's for 7.25, but when that's bumped up to a livable wage it becomes more appealing.
But no, anything to keep short-term profits high for CEOs.
The Librarian
Banned
He was arguing Congress can only do what is specifically listed in the Constitution.
Aaron Strife
Banned
Funny how that always ignores the fact that the Constitution was written hundreds of years ago, before internets.
Landrieu leads potential foes for re-election
C'mon Senate Democrats, hold the margins in 2014 for a blowout 2016, Hillary supermajority.
What about mandatory schooling, where is that in the constitution?
The Librarian
Banned
I kind of brought that up, but then he argued that that position is a slippery-slope, and we can't just ignore it when it suits our needs. "We're ignoring it. I guess it's not the law of the land anymore!" I brought up the commerce clause, and he said it was ridiculous that just because it relates to the economy ("You can relate almost anything to commerce!") it doesn't mean Congress can do it.
Dr. Pangloss
Member
General Welfare Clause. And as with any normal society things change to suit the needs at of that time. Or why do we still have a third amendment? I don't think we are going to have to quarter soldiers anytime soon. Also, the Constitution mentions nothing about nuclear weapons, but the government does things with those too.
Black Mamba
Member
Pretty sure congress cannot mandate pre-k school. I don't think there is a mandatory school law. Every state has their own. What congress can do is deny a portion of funds to states that don't comply, however.
B For Bendetta
Member
Can someone explain the difference between the debt and the deficit to me? Or link to a good article?
RustyNails
Member
Congress doesn't say that you should live in homes/apartments and buy cars. Why do we buy homes and buy cars??? IMPEACH OBAMACARE
The Librarian
Banned
Why not?
Black Mamba
Member
Deficit is the yearly amount of debt. Debt is total debt or money owed from borrowing for the deficit.
Deficit is spending minus revenues.
Dax - because they have no authority to do so. Schooling powers is reserved to the states. I see no explicit power given that relates to schooling.
Also Obama never argued for mandatory for this reason. He said it should be a avalaible.
Education is almost universally handled at the state level. I'm not well versed in federal education laws/limitation, though. Obama did not say that he'd mandate pre-K, though, he said he'd work with states to do so. Like BM said, Congress could potentially cut off funds to states that don't accept the pre-K expansion, similar to the current Medicaid expansion.
The Librarian
Banned
Where does it say that?
Article 1, Section 2, Paragraph 3 should be all you need to understand that the Constitution is not perfect. It's been amended over twenty times FFS.
The Librarian
Banned
Then he'd probably argue just because it's imperfect it doesn't mean we can ignore it.
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