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PoliGAF 2013 |OT1| Never mind, Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

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P

PhoenixDark

Banned
KingK said:
Part of the problem on the pro-gun control side's messaging, imo, is the focus on the mass shootings as a need for gun control. A lot of conservatives just counter that "mass shooting X" would have happened even with the new gun control, and often times that's true and some people realize that and are turned off of gun control because they don't think it would have any real effect.

The problem is that most gun deaths don't happen in mass shootings, they happen on city streets, and city gun violence is definitely reduced by increased gun control. But nobody except a few of the big mayors like Bloomberg are even talking about city gun violence. It's all about the mass shootings in Colorado and Newtown, because unfortunately, white suburban voters don't give a shit about black kids getting shot in the city.
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this x100. I give Obama credit for talking about what's happening in Chicago but overall no one gives a shit. No one is talking about banning handguns, whereas trying to ban automatic weapons is like shopping at Whole Foods: a no-effort attempt to do something good, that doesn't really accomplish anything.

The sad thing is that when democrats take the House again, and still hold the senate, no one will be talking about gun control. This issue is only important for about 30-60 days after a tragedy, then people go back to the real world while blacks and brown kids die daily on the street corner.
 
R

Rocket Scientist

Member
I'm furious that Republicans and pussy Democrats can get away with not even letting a vote happen on this thing. How cowardly must you be to hide behind the filibuster. Fucking grown men and women at work people.
 
T

TacticalFox88

Banned
PhoenixPause said:
this x100. I give Obama credit for talking about what's happening in Chicago but overall no one gives a shit. No one is talking about banning handguns, whereas trying to ban automatic weapons is like shopping at Whole Foods: a no-effort attempt to do something good, that doesn't really accomplish anything.

The sad thing is that when democrats take the House again, and still hold the senate, no one will be talking about gun control. This issue is only important for about 30-60 days after a tragedy, then people go back to the real world while blacks and brown kids die daily on the street corner.
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So you're suggesting we need a bunch of white kids dying for people to care!? At least for the moment?

:(

You're probably right...
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
TacticalFox88 said:
So you're suggesting we need a bunch of white kids dying for people to care!? At least for the moment?

:(

You're probably right...
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Maybe a 911 type event, but then again some people thought Newtown would be that. Perhaps someone shooting up 100 kids at a daycare. And even then I'd be skeptical.
 
C

CoffeeJanitor

Member
Two fantastic argumentsI heard from anti-gun control family members yesterday

1) All of those hollywood-types are hypocrites to want gun control. They use guns all the time in their movies!!!

2) Legislation won't do anything--Just look at rape and murder; both are illegal, and yet both still happen!

Oh and they live in Bachmann's district. Surprise surprise.
 
N

NYCmetsfan

Banned
Reid just released this today.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ZEVGjihnFuY

I don't think its dead yet. They might be struggling with the numbers but I hope at least Reid puts it up and forces them to filibuster. That's something to run against.

Link said:
The NRA has also successful made idiots think of "Let's just arm the teachers!" as a sensible solution.
Click to expand...

http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/nra-to-release-report-tuesday-on-proposal-to?ref=fpb
 
T

TacticalFox88

Banned
CoffeeJanitor said:
Two fantastic argumentsI heard from anti-gun control family members yesterday

1) All of those hollywood-types are hypocrites to want gun control. They use guns all the time in their movies!!!

2) Legislation won't do anything--Just look at rape and murder; both are illegal, and yet both still happen!

Oh and they live in Bachmann's district. Surprise surprise.
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Number 2 ALWAYS pisses me off.

Laws aren't meant to stop crime absolutely! They're meant to be a deterrence and set an acceptable standard of rules and regulations society has to abide by!

They were NEVER proposed or implemented to stop a crime/violation/deregulation completely.

How the fuck is this not common sense!?
 
K

KtSlime

Member
789shadow said:
Arm daycare workers with automatic weapons.
Click to expand...

We should just give up on being sad when kids get murdered. We could instead get a nice giant number display, put it up someplace like Times Square, light some candles around it, and what not and call it a sacrifice (everyone has to make sacrifices in this day and age, 'limited' resources and all). We would have to pick a god (or should we use the term saint?) of the gun for the US Pantheon though. We got any good choices?

APKmetsfan: Reid's name is still attached. He's a phony and a fink.
 
N

NYCmetsfan

Banned
http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.c...dget-inspires-democratic-attack-on-17?ref=fpb

This morning, the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee released a new online ad campaign aimed at 17 "vulnerable" House Republicans who backed Rep. Paul Ryan's (R-WI) budget. DCCC spokesman Jesse Ferguson told TPM the group targeted by the ads aren't necessarily the most vulnerable GOP House members and are a sampling of the larger group of Republican seats the Democratic campaign organization sees as potentially changing hands in 2014.

"This group is a sample of the 50-60 we see in play. All of those are potentially vulnerable," Ferguson said.

Ryan plays a starring role in the ads, which describe his budget as a "radical vision for America" and feature a clip of Center on Budget and Policy Priorities Senior Fellow Jared Bernstein describing Ryan's plan as "Robin Hood in Reverse. The DCCC launched a similar attack on Ryan's buedget late last month, but these web videos name each of the targeted House members as sharing Ryan's "radical vision." Ferguson said the 17 Republicans named in the ads were chosen for targeitng based on a "variety of factors" including their perceived vulnerability for attacks based on the Ryan budget.

View the full list of House Republicans named in the ads and the version of the video made for California Congressman David Valadao below.

AR-02 Tim Griffin

AR-04 Tom Cotton

CA-21 David Valadao

CA-31 Gary Miller

CO-06 Mike Coffman

IN-08 Larry Bucshon

MN-02 John Kline

MN-03 Erik Paulsen

NE-02 Lee Terry

NJ-03 Jon Runyan

NY-11 Michael Grimm

NY-23 Tom Reed

OH-14 David Joyce

OH-16 Jim Renacci

PA-08 Mike Fitzpatrick

VA-02 Scott Rigell

WA-03 Jaime Herrera Beutler
Click to expand...

I like that they're out attacking now, seems the Dems are seriously gonna try to put up a fight in 2014. In 2010 they never attacked just defended which I think was to their detriment.

Wish they'd use less MSNBC clips though
 
C

ClassyPenguin

Banned
ivedoneyourmom said:
We should just give up on being sad when kids get murdered. We could instead get a nice giant number display, put it up someplace like Times Square, light some candles around it, and what not and call it a sacrifice (everyone has to make sacrifices in this day and age, 'limited' resources and all). We'd would have to pick a god (or should we use the term saint?) of the gun for the US Pantheon though. We got any good choices?
Click to expand...

I like this idea.
 
N

NYCmetsfan

Banned
Hitokage said:
Why can't we recall Reid? Guy talks big then folds at the worst times.
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I think people are overblowing this as the end too soon. I'm not gonna take one article as the end of it. OFA and Obama are still gonna be pushing it. When they give up then its over. Wasn't health care "done" about 10 times?
 
A

Aaron Strife

Banned
APKmetsfan said:
http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.c...dget-inspires-democratic-attack-on-17?ref=fpb

I like that they're out attacking now, seems the Dems are seriously gonna try to put up a fight in 2014. In 2010 they never attacked just defended which I think was to their detriment.

Wish they'd use less MSNBC clips though
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Interesting how they're finally going after Lee Terry who barely won in 2012 after the DCCC didn't spend a dime on that race.

Gallup says Americans' top criticism of the Republican Party is that they're unwilling to compromise. Maybe we should vote them into the majority in the House in 2014 again! That'll teach them!
 
R

Rocket Scientist

Member
APKmetsfan said:
I think people are overblowing this as the end too soon. I'm not gonna take one article as the end of it. OFA and Obama are still gonna be pushing it. When they give up then its over. Wasn't health care "done" about 10 times?
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I don't think it's even about whether or not this is the end though, it's just the fact that every single piece of legislation goes through a ridiculous drawn out process in the senate for no reason.
 
J

jamesinclair

Banned
TacticalFox88 said:
I'm to the point now that I'm cynical as fuck and ALMOST to the point of apathetic when another school shooting occurs.

If goddamn children getting massacred can't get this country to wake the fuck up to reality, nothing will.
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At this point i wonder if a shootout inside the congressional daycare would even change things
 
A

Averon

Member
http://www.politico.com/story/2013/04/social-conservatives-fight-back-89501.html?hp=t1

Social conservatives fight back

The preferred plot line for many in the GOP establishment for revitalizing their party goes something like this: They move to a more libertarian stance on key social issues — particularly same-sex marriage — and the Bible-thumping, evangelical wing of the party meekly complies, realizing times have changed.

One problem with that scenario, however: The Christian Right, while a diminished force, doesn’t like how that story ends at all.

...

Yet as some party intellectuals openly wonder if the heyday of the religious right has come and gone, social conservatives are responding with ferocity, indicting John McCain and Mitt Romney for their losses and bluntly warning that the GOP will cease to exist if the party abandons those voters who are in the party because of, not despite, its platform on values. If cultural conservatives are headed toward extinction, they are making clear they won’t go away without a fight.
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S

Snake

Member
Link said:
"Time to give those toddlers guns!"
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We are only two high-profile school shootings away from this being a mainstream conservative position. Three, tops.

ivysaur12 said:
@maddow: Sen Casey evolves: http://t.co/Bt2btuZUSn Sen Dems against = marriage rights: Manchin Nelson Heitkamp Landrieu Carper Johnson Donnelly Pryor

We'll see who's next.
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I'm guessing it'll be Bill Nelson. He was an astronaut so all we need to do is give him a Moon Stone and I'm sure he'll evolve.
 
T

TacticalFox88

Banned
Top Republican pundit Bill Kristol believes that members of his party are only considering support of marriage equality to keep up with TV shows, and to appeal to “some 26-year-old who doesn’t know anything honestly.”

In an interview on The Weekly Standard’s podcast, Kristol, the publication’s editor, argued that Republicans who reconsider their position on marriage — like Sen. Rob Portman (R-OH), who flipped his view after his son came out — are “pathetic.” When the interviewer pointed to television shows like “Friends and Dharma and Greg,” Kristol said that, thanks to young people, that’s exactly what is driving the conversation:

I mean, there’s something pathetic about it. I’ve found it really distasteful. I mean I myself am socially conservative on the marriage issue but even if you’re not, just say what you believe and let the country decide…. This kind of pathetic attempt of ‘Oh my god, young people especially are liberal so let’s just rush to cater to them.’ As if they’re going to respect you if you just embrace the views of some 26-year-old who doesn’t know anything honestly. Can’t adults say young people are sometimes wrong? [...]

Gee, this TV show is popular so let’s just throw over thousands of years of history and what the great religions teach and let’s just embrace it because, hey, you don’t want to be on the other side from a TV show that has 20 million viewers. I mean, really, that’s what a serious political party does?

Kristol’s effort to squash the voices of young people is familiar; the far conservative right has made similar arguments before, even as the mainstream of the Republican party recognizes its need to appeal to young voters. In its post-election “autopsy” report last week, the Republican party specified, “we do need to make sure young people do not see the Party as totally intolerant of alternative points of view.”

It’s unlikely that marriage equality is going to go the way of The Macarena; with the support of 81 percent of people ages 18-29, same-sex marriage is no fad. Sixty-one percent of Americans know someone who is gay. Moreover, young people tend to be a weather vane on social issues — as they were during the civil rights movement and the fight for women’s equality.

And while it is true that young people are more receptive to television programming with gay characters, the evidence suggests that people are more likely to watch shows that promote values they already hold, not that they are forced to believe something thanks to what they watch. Perhaps Kristol has failed to realize that inculsivity in programming might be evidence of acceptance, not a gay agenda.
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Are these people seriously that fucking retarded? Christ.
 
I

ivysaur12

Banned
Averon said:
http://www.politico.com/story/2013/04/social-conservatives-fight-back-89501.html?hp=t1

Social conservatives fight back
Click to expand...

Good. Let them. I hope they put up some awful candidates in 2014.


Snake said:
We are only two high-profile school shootings away from this being a mainstream conservative position. Three, tops.



I'm guessing it'll be Bill Nelson. He was an astronaut so all we need to do is give him a Moon Stone and I'm sure he'll evolve.
Click to expand...

It's got to be Carper. He's from Delaware, there's no political set back for him if he comes out for marriage equality.

Is there some sort of betting website for this? Like InTrade? This is fun. Last ones will be Manchin or Pryor.
 
R

RoninChaos

Member
So a friend posted on Facebook about getting fucked after going to the doctor. He's like visit was 50 then I got a bill for 75 and then paid for prescriptions. Who should I be pissed at.

A friend of his posted "The government" and went on a rant about how medical providers and doctors don't have to compete like any other capitalist system.

My understanding was that medical costs remained high because the insured are paying inflated prices for two reasons: the first is because the doctors and hospitals can get away with it because of insurance. The other reason is prices are high due to something like half of people's medical bills will go unpaid. So doctors try to get as much upfront as they can so they don't get fucked.

Someone help enlighten me.
 
I

ivysaur12

Banned
“There is a split,” said Santorum, on the views of younger Republicans on gay marriage and abortion. “But the marriage issue is still a very new issue in America, and people said in the 1970s it was just a matter of time before everybody became pro-choice. So, I think we’ll see the pendulum swing back once young conservatives see the real consequences to the destruction of marriage.”
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Is that their only argument now? Buyer's remorse?

Because Massachusetts has just FALLEN APART in the last decade!
 
B

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
RoninChaos said:
So a friend posted on Facebook about getting fucked after going to the doctor. He's like visit was 50 then I got a bill for 75 and then paid for prescriptions. Who should I be pissed at.

A friend of his posted "The government" and went on a rant about how medical providers and doctors don't have to compete like any other capitalist system.

My understanding was that medical costs remained high because the insured are paying inflated prices for two reasons: the first is because the doctors and hospitals can get away with it because of insurance. The other reason is prices are high due to something like half of people's medical bills will go unpaid. So doctors try to get as much upfront as they can so they don't get fucked.

Someone help enlighten me.
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No you are exactly right. Point your friend toward the Time Magazine article on the issue. I think he's misguided on his conclusions, but the reporting (why prices are the way they are) is really solid. The whole system needs an overhaul.
 
B

Black Mamba

Member
What are the consequences to the "destruction of marriage?"

The gay marriage issue is so weird because it literally affects no one directly or indirectly outside of the two consenting adults!
 
Link

Link

The Autumn Wind
Black Mamba said:
What are the consequences to the "destruction of marriage?"

The gay marriage issue is so weird because it literally affects no one directly or indirectly outside of the two consenting adults!
Click to expand...
thinkofthechildren.jpg
 
S

speculawyer

Member
TacticalFox88 said:
Are these people seriously that fucking retarded? Christ.
Click to expand...

Top Republican pundit Bill Kristol believes that members of his party are only considering support of marriage equality to keep up with TV shows, and to appeal to “some 26-year-old who doesn’t know anything honestly.”

This is the man who said there was no evidence of any discord between Sunnis & Shias in Iraq and said that Iraq would be a 3 or 4 month war not an 8 year war. Why does anyone listen to him for anything?
 
I

ivysaur12

Banned
APKmetsfan said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67_FB6-gGZs
Click to expand...

And that's why Pryor will be the last one, if ever.


speculawyer said:
Top Republican pundit Bill Kristol believes that members of his party are only considering support of marriage equality to keep up with TV shows, and to appeal to “some 26-year-old who doesn’t know anything honestly.”

This is the man who said there was no evidence of any discord between Sunnis & Shias in Iraq and said that Iraq would be a 3 or 4 month war not an 8 year war. Why does anyone listen to him for anything?
Click to expand...

Because he gets a fancy qualification of "Top Republican pundit"
 
A

Aaron Strife

Banned
speculawyer said:
Top Republican pundit Bill Kristol believes that members of his party are only considering support of marriage equality to keep up with TV shows, and to appeal to “some 26-year-old who doesn’t know anything honestly.”

This is the man who said there was no evidence of any discord between Sunnis & Shias in Iraq and said that Iraq would be a 3 or 4 month war not an 8 year war. Why does anyone listen to him for anything?
Click to expand...
Dick Morris is still treated seriously by the GOP and he was dead fucking wrong about everything in 2012. Maybe i should become a partisan hack, it seems pretty easy. Hey everyone, democrats are going to lose 10 Senate seats in 2014. Give me a job Fox News!
 
C

ClovingWestbrook

Banned
Listening to Huckabee today and he was arguing that regulation isn't needed in business since without regulation companies would simply do the right thing. They would do the moral thing, the honorable thing, be good stewards of their finances, be fair, just, and moral.

...
..
.

yea...
 
G

GaimeGuy

Volunteer Deputy Campaign Director, Obama for America '16
ClovingWestbrook said:
Listening to Huckabee today and he was arguing that regulation isn't needed in business since without regulation companies would simply do the right thing. They would do the moral thing, the honorable thing, be good stewards of their finances, be fair, just, and moral.

...
..
.

yea...
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History proves that this is not true. Recent events prove this is not true.

The deepwater oil crisis occurred because someone wanted to save money rather than "do the right thing" and include failsafes (which are normally required under regulations), and the bush administration gave them a waiver.

In other words, the private industry wanted to not do the right thing, and the government gave them permission because they asked nicely.

Then it blew up in their faces and people responded by saying the regulation caused it.

I hate huckabee and everyone who still believes in corporatism/objectivism, a philosophy the rest of the world scoffed at when it was first introduced.
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
Averon said:
http://www.politico.com/story/2013/04/social-conservatives-fight-back-89501.html?hp=t1

Social conservatives fight back
Click to expand...
“The last two presidential elections, we had more moderate candidates, so if anything a lot of conservatives went to the polls reluctantly or just didn’t go at all,” said Huckabee in a separate interview. “If all of the evangelicals had showed up, it may have made a difference.”
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I hate that shit so much, and can't wait for a truly hardcore wacko to get beaten. "Oh if we actually wanted to win we could have." Sounds like a Lakers fan.
 
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