Ah yes, Jeff Daniels in his Emmy-winning performance as Will McAvoy.
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PoliGAF 2013 |OT2| Worth 77% of OT1
- Thread starter The Librarian
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Ah yes, Jeff Daniels in his Emmy-winning performance as Will McAvoy.
j_k_redtail
Member
That's because Harry Reid lives for this stuff. He ran ads supporting a Tea Party GOP candidate against a (relatively) moderate Republican opponent, since he figured the Tea Party candidate would be easier to beat. Or remember this one from last year? "I have it on good authority that Mitt Romney didn't pay taxes for 10 years.... but he could release his returns and prove me wrong."
The man is a master-level troll.
Hey guys, Aussie here, just want to ask a question.
I've been trawling through the constitution and I'm looking to see if the US has any previsions to recall or dissolve the houses of congress and hold fresh elections.
In Australia this kind of long-standing gridlock is considered to be a trigger event would lead to a double dissolution election where all seats are vacated and a general election is held. There is no provision for this in the US constitution or US system is there?
I've been trawling through the constitution and I'm looking to see if the US has any previsions to recall or dissolve the houses of congress and hold fresh elections.
In Australia this kind of long-standing gridlock is considered to be a trigger event would lead to a double dissolution election where all seats are vacated and a general election is held. There is no provision for this in the US constitution or US system is there?
theprodigy
Member
I thought that was McCaskill?
jamesinclair
Banned
If Harry Reid is the rock, we're fucked.
Link
The Autumn Wind
Nope, we are stuck with these morons
No, Reid was running against some pretty crazy Republican (she was the "chickens for checkups" lady). It just so happened that the one who replaced her was oddly enough EVEN WORSE.
Interesting. I mean that would be a great solution in this case, because you'd be able to vacate both houses totally and hold completely fresh elections for all 450 HoR members and all 100 senators.
You could also run on an Obamacare platform and the democrats would probably win in a landslide (I'm not entirely sure, but from what I understand the public is very much in support of Obamacare?)
You could also run on an Obamacare platform and the democrats would probably win in a landslide (I'm not entirely sure, but from what I understand the public is very much in support of Obamacare?)
The founders forgot to add that part.
So in theory the government could be shutdown for a year and no one could really do anything about it, except budge/compromise their political positions?
Obamacare is popular enough that obama was reelected on it and democrats in blue states can campaign on it but it's also unpopular enough in red states where republicans feel that they have enough cache to fully block the law. So if we did dissolve congress it would probably end up with the same partisan gridlock once new congress people are elected.
lol
He has the appearance and demeanor of a frail, weak kind of man but his tact is pretty masterful when it comes to this stuff.
I am not sure if he's the "rock" though. Pelosi did some amazing things as Speaker and she lost her job. Still pisses me off
He's a bad, bad man. I would not want to ever cross that guy.
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thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
That could mean they're willing to give up more, but obviously can't say what out loud before the senate does their thing.
You'd be a pretty bad negotiator if you just came out and said how low you're willing to go.
Yup, until political pressure from constituents gets great enough republicans won't cave. Well we do have the whole debt ceiling fiasco coming up so if democrats hold out, I don't see republicans defaulting on that either.
Yeah, I mean it's clearly not required. It's just a good way of throwing the choice back to the people, maybe a referendum on Obamacare would be preferable, but I know those aren't really done on the Federal level either.
Also, what areas of the federal government are not working during a shutdown, the entirety of it? Including military, homeland security, all the departments?
Between the Republicans shifting further to the right in aggregate post election, improving economic and jobs numbers (anemic though they are), and ongoing growing public acceptance/support of Obamacare, marriage equality, marijuana legalization etc, I'd expect the Democrats to end up slightly better off in a snap re-election of Senators and Congressmen. But not enough to break the deadlock thanks to gerrymandering.
I think all non essential departments and services are furloughed but other people here should know more about what happens during a shutdown.
Personally, I think our biggest problem is our idiotic primary system. A lot of these crazy republicans are more scared of being primaried than they are of losing the general election since they are in a safe district. They have an incentive to do act like a bunch of crazy right wing lunatics because that is exactly the people who vote in the primary.
Is getting rid of primaries for incumbents legal? You'd still have a primary for the opponent, but you will no longer have your representative being unduly influenced by a small, crazy part of his constituents.
Either that, or do nationwide what california did. That seems like an improvement. Or we could just make primary and General election voting mandatory
Is getting rid of primaries for incumbents legal? You'd still have a primary for the opponent, but you will no longer have your representative being unduly influenced by a small, crazy part of his constituents.
Either that, or do nationwide what california did. That seems like an improvement. Or we could just make primary and General election voting mandatory
PhoenixDark
Banned
You're wrong. As long as the WH isn't negotiating we're fine. And thank god that McConnell is tied up in his election, I wouldn't want him and Biden swooping in to "save" the day either.
theprodigy
Member
oh you know we can't have that because VOTER FRAUD /gop
The primary system is the most sublime aspect of the US electoral system. There's a flipside to being dragged to the crazies side. It's being dragged to the less crazy side.
In Australia you have safe districts where the party choses who stands. These MPs can vote with impunity, knowing their district will never vote against them. They can vote against their district, for things they don't want, etc. This is why in Australia we have a much bigger disconnect between the public and the political parties.
For example a big bug bear in Australian politics is gay marriage. We have one of the highest public approval rates for gay marriage in the world and yet none of our political parties will deliver this for us.
Also mandatory voting is amazing. I'm totally up for mandatory voting. (We have it here in Australia)
Mandatory voting and primaries would make an incredibly good democratic system.
I'd say it's a combination of our primary system and what David Frum called the conservative entertainment complex constantly egging on Republicans to do act stupider and stupider.
Who says they won't end up negotiating on something? If the Government shuts down Obama may feel compelled to... I'm not saying it would be a delay of PPACA but it might be something unexpected, who knows, anything is possible really.
Biden is the man for getting Mitch McConnell to cooperate... otherwise we would have had our first-ever default, you can't tell me he didn't play a role in keeping that from happening.
These nothing wrong with voting against the majority opinion in your district. Heck, I would say its vital for a representative democracy for this to occur, and one of the problems of the current Gerry-mandered districts is that it forces republicans to always vote in lock-step with their community.
Also re disconnect - the American public have a lower regard for their congress that anyone else from recollection. I don't think their primary system is really helping them there.
Also re disconnect - the American public have a lower regard for their congress that anyone else from recollection. I don't think their primary system is really helping them there.
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thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
We could recover from a month long shutdown pretty quickly if we have to, but it could take decades to fix all the damage from hitting the debt ceiling.
Republicans would be crazy to actually go that far. Most of wall street would turn on them. I can't imagine them doing that. The only thing that might save them is for Obama minting a trillion dollar coin to pay for it, but that's a very risky economic road to walk down.
I don't know what the optics would be of them increasing the debt ceiling while continuing the shutdown, but I'd imagine not good. So I figure we'll have a solution for both one way or the other come Oct 17.
NYCmetsfan
Banned
Dude once tried to choke guy who was screwing him, also wasnt he a boxer?
Reid is a bad ass.
He ain't called the Lion of the Senate for nothing!
jamesinclair
Banned
I can see why long-term members eventually turn to trolling or joke characters.
OT can just be too frustrating sometimes.
OT can just be too frustrating sometimes.
My money is on the former boxer.
PhoenixDark
Banned
Give an example then. What is Obama going to give up.
Politico is reporting there could be 120 House members begging Boehner not to shut down the government tomorrow. This is going to end before the weekend I bet, with Boehner cutting the plug. He might have one more hail mary (Vitter amendment), which the house hasn't even discussed. So that's not a guarantee but I tend to believe it'll be their last try. And when Reid tables it again with 51 votes (maybe Biden will provide the 51st?), it'll effectively be game over.
I can't wait for Obama's press statement after the CR is passed. Hopefully he walks to the podium with this beat playing.
I feel like every kid goes through this point in their life when they hear about wars and wonder "why aren't the leaders of their respective countries just getting into a ring and settling things this way". Then you grow up, realize that's just not how things work, but then you grow up more and really, really wish that was how the world worked.
Another question about the debt ceiling.
So some right-wingers are saying (and have been saying for a long time) that it's okay if we don't raise the debt ceiling cause we can just pay the interest and thus won't default. So we can, in turn, not worry about not paying out for medicare, SS, or whatever. But wouldn't not paying ANY of things count as default? I mean, it doesn't make sense to me how you can only pay part of your bill, while not being effected on your credit.
So some right-wingers are saying (and have been saying for a long time) that it's okay if we don't raise the debt ceiling cause we can just pay the interest and thus won't default. So we can, in turn, not worry about not paying out for medicare, SS, or whatever. But wouldn't not paying ANY of things count as default? I mean, it doesn't make sense to me how you can only pay part of your bill, while not being effected on your credit.
Markets will de facto default the US. Interest rates would spike hard, so even paying that becomes doubtful.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...ng-as-soon-as-oct-18-heres-what-happens-next/
So yea, Republicans are idiots.
Former Capitol Police too, he has climbed a long ass way to get where he is.
It just depends on what you mean by "default". They're not talking about it as a moral danger, but a financial one. There are practical difficulties, and suddenly cutting off Medicare would be terrible for the economy by itself, but cutting off Medicare isn't going to directly impact the trust investors have in US Treasuries. It's not a default on fungible debt, confidence in which is a big part of what directly determines how easy it is for the US to borrow money. Demonstrating an ability and a willingness to fuck over absolutely everyone else before fucking over bondholders would probably increase confidence in US Treasuries, because it sets a precedent for future debt ceiling fights that bondholders won't be touched.
Carpe Libertatem
Member
The American public has a low regard for the body of Congress. Not for its individual members. That's why most incumbents are reelected with ease.
It's why the best way to run for Congress is to run against Congress.
"We didn't elect you to make smart decisions. We elected you to represent us."
NYCmetsfan
Banned
Lol from politico
theprodigy
Member
looks like Pelosi's gonna call the shots again haha
Is there any way we can set up a GAF Republican Preserve or something? That dead OT thread is just one in a long line of abortive attempts to have reasonable conversations with the few conservatives around here. I understand that GAF will always be a place for vitriolic, overly personalized debate -- after all, they're not about to close the Wii U OT -- but it might be nice to have a few friendlier interactions without them always getting trolled into closing, especially when it's by people who don't even post in Poli-GAF.
Probably not.
Outside GAF is certainly not better. I can't go many places and say "I don't know if American gun culture is really all that healthy" without immediately being shit on for expressing anything less than total embrace for guns.
theprodigy
Member
you make it sound like Republicans are an endangered species on GAF or something :lol
I know they kind of are, in a sense
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
I'm pissed off. I just watched an episode of Batman: the Brave and the Bold featuring an over the top patriotic superhero named Uncle Sam who fights villains with his belief in the spirit of freedom and the entire episode had this overly-American aesthetic with color and music choices and it just made me realize that I remember when that kind of blind but optimistic "I think this country is awesome" patriotism was something I could actually engage in and I feel like I can't anymore because those aesthetics and that rhetoric have been so fully accosted by a segment of the country that I so fully disagree with that I don't want to blatantly wave a flag anymore in case someone thinks I'm one of them.
jamesinclair
Banned
Hey guys, all I see happening is non-essential personal would be furloughed. Why does the government hire non essential personal in the first place?
Once the federal govt. gets shut down, please don't even bother to reopen it---America and the American people will be far better off without it.
Once the federal govt. gets shut down, please don't even bother to reopen it---America and the American people will be far better off without it.
let me be the GOP plz
The only things I could think of are the Vitter Amendment or something to hurt women (i.e. contraceptives).
But given how the nature of a shutdown would be so out of the ordinary, all I'm saying is it would be hard to predict where things land. Lots of crazy things could go down as they try to hash something out to get the government running again.
Also, the political fallout. If the Pew poll is to be accurate Dems do not have anything to feel good about despite having a (small) lead. If a shutdown drags on it hurts lots of Dems who have an election next year, should the public support for their position go south.
If it's any consolation, American patriotism always seemed over the top from the outside and it doesn't look too different now anyway unless you are taking a very close look at the messaging. So wave your flag while chanting "USA, USA, USA" safe in the knowledge that foreigners will happily continue judging you no more harshly than before
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