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[PhoenixDark]

Democrats will probably have to give a little bit for the debt ceiling because that's much more disastrous than a government shutdown. Not anything related to the ACA, but maybe something like the Keystone Pipeline.

Nope. The only way we default is if Boehner doesn't bring the vote to the floor. A government shut down for a few hours or even a few days isn't the end of the world, although obviously it does damage. Whereas a default is the end of the world. The house won't be able to play with that.

 

[RustyNails]

I can't believe a health care law is significant enough for the world's most powerful nation to default over. Crazy pills.

It's nothing new. You're talking about a country that erupted in a civil war over abolishing slavery. Every major progressive step is met by an equally opposing status-quo step.

 

[Carpe Libertatem]

No. Fuck that. We give them anything and they'll continue to pull this shit. Tell them to fuck off, no negotiations whatsoever.

Normally I would agree, but the debt ceiling is a big deal. It would be disastrous if we defaulted. Maybe Boehner can get enough votes to raise it with the Democrats, but I'm not so sure that's guaranteed right now.

No, don't give in on anything that was in the Romney/Ryan platform. Those fuckers lost. This isn't Kindergarten, losing is losing.

You say this as if there aren't a vocal minority of Democrats who want the Keystone pipeline

 

[Drakeon]

I think that's a little far fetched considering the things teaparty members are saying. Besides, that strategy actually requires the use of brains.

It would have to be the house leaderships plan, give the teapers the fight they've been clamoring for and they won't put up a huge fight over the debt ceiling.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

"@arneduncan: I invite lawmakers holding up the budget to visit preschools with me & see teamwork, listening, fair play & compassion in action."

 

[Drakeon]

Normally I would agree, but the debt ceiling is a big deal. It would be disastrous if we defaulted. Maybe Boehner can get enough votes to raise it with the Democrats, but I'm not so sure that's guaranteed right now.



You say this as if there aren't a vocal minority of Democrats who want the Keystone pipeline

I dont care about the consequences, you don't negotiate with terrorists. More importantly, wall street would flay them alive, they'll make sure we don't default.

 

[bananas]

Normally I would agree, but the debt ceiling is a big deal. It would be disastrous if we defaulted. Maybe Boehner can get enough votes to raise it with the Democrats, but I'm not so sure that's guaranteed right now.



You say this as if there aren't a vocal minority of Democrats who want the Keystone pipeline

The difference between the Republicans and Democrats is that the Democrats don't let the vocal minority control the party.

 

[The Librarian]

And I'm going to bed. I'll catch up on the craziness in the morn'.

 

[Piecake]

Normally I would agree, but the debt ceiling is a big deal. It would be disastrous if we defaulted. Maybe Boehner can get enough votes to raise it with the Democrats, but I'm not so sure that's guaranteed right now.



You say this as if there aren't a vocal minority of Democrats who want the Keystone pipeline

If you give in, we are going to be doing this shit constantly and completely erode our normal democratic process. Id rather have Obama do the 1 kajillion dollar coin or 14th amendment thing that that

 

[pigeon]

Heard a theory by Ezra Klein the other day on Maddow, that the house would go with a shutdown to avoid fights on the debt ceiling. That way, they felt asif they fought for something, ultimately amounting to nothing. Better to shut the ggovernment down for a few days then to default. Hoping he's right.

Right. That was the theory I kept telling people would happen! But it assumed that Boehner would CONFIDENTLY and DEFIANTLY shut the government down to appease the crazies. It did not assume that, with three hours to go before the federal government shut down, the House would vote to GO TO CONFERENCE. How is that going to give Boehner the cover he needs to eventually pass the CR?

My theory relied on the idea that Boehner was secretly effective and just pretending to look incompetent. But there's no analysis where going to conference is secretly effective. This strongly implies that Boehner might, in fact, actually just be completely incompetent! If that's the case ANYTHING COULD HAPPEN.

 

[789shadow]

Welp if we're gonna shut down here's what's gonna happen

http://www.theonion.com/articles/wha...4052/?ref=auto

Why does The Onion seem more grounded in reality than the fucking house?

Loved the Sword Art Online reference (?) in that.

 

[thepotatoman]

Democrats will probably have to give a little bit for the debt ceiling because that's much more disastrous than a government shutdown. Not anything related to the ACA, but maybe something like the Keystone Pipeline.

Keystone pipeline for climate change regulation is a compromise.

Keystone pipeline for the country not defaulting is not a compromise.

 

[bananas]

Right. That was the theory I kept telling people would happen! But it assumed that Boehner would CONFIDENTLY and DEFIANTLY shut the government down to appease the crazies. It did not assume that, with three hours to go before the federal government shut down, the House would vote to GO TO CONFERENCE. How is that going to give Boehner the cover he needs to eventually pass the CR?

My theory relied on the idea that Boehner was secretly effective and just pretending to look incompetent. But there's no analysis where going to conference is secretly effective. This strongly implies that Boehner might, in fact, actually just be completely incompetent! If that's the case ANYTHING COULD HAPPEN.

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

It's nothing new. You're talking about a country that erupted in a civil war over abolishing slavery. Every major progressive step is met by an equally opposing status-quo step.

Funnily enough, the american Quakers were the first western organization to denounce slavery.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

Decided to catch MNF at a bar on capitol hill (geaux saints). Drunk ferloughed dude is making the night, dude is going off.

 

[Carpe Libertatem]

The difference between the Republicans and Democrats is that the Democrats don't let the vocal minority control the party.

They aren't on the level of the Tea Party, that's for sure. But they have quite a bit of control, particularly in the Senate. You're kidding yourself if you think otherwise

Keystone pipeline for climate change regulation is a compromise.

Keystone pipeline for the country not defaulting is not a compromise.

Never said it was a compromise - it's certainly not as the only thing the Democrats would be getting is a non-defaulted economy (which isn't something you really "get"). Well, some Blue Dogs would be happy with it.

 

[Diablos]

Right. That was the theory I kept telling people would happen! But it assumed that Boehner would CONFIDENTLY and DEFIANTLY shut the government down to appease the crazies. It did not assume that, with three hours to go before the federal government shut down, the House would vote to GO TO CONFERENCE. How is that going to give Boehner the cover he needs to eventually pass the CR?

My theory relied on the idea that Boehner was secretly effective and just pretending to look incompetent. But there's no analysis where going to conference is secretly effective. This strongly implies that Boehner might, in fact, actually just be completely incompetent! If that's the case ANYTHING COULD HAPPEN.

So your theory was wrong? And we all have a right to be diablosing now?

Pete Sessions seemed kind of glum when he said they are sticking to delaying/defunding PPACA.

 

[Rubenov]

Decided to catch MNF at a bar on capitol hill (geaux saints). Drunk ferloughed dude is making the night, dude is going off.

Oh man. If I didn't have to work tomorrow I'd go there.

 

[ISOM]

.

 

[pigeon]

So your theory was wrong? And we all have a right to be diablosing now?

You can't freak out about the possibility that Obama will suddenly decide to defund Obamacare. That's still impossible.

If you want to worry a little about the possibility that Republicans will actually destroy the world, that's okay.

 

[RustyNails]

Funnily enough, the american Quakers were the first western organization to denounce slavery.

Quakers have always been a liberal bunch. Relatively speaking.

 

[Diablos]

You can't freak out about the possibility that Obama will suddenly decide to defund Obamacare. That's still impossible.

If you want to worry a little about the possibility that Republicans will actually destroy the world, that's okay.

Ugh.

Heritage Action's Michael Needham calls GOP's idea of conference committee on CR a "Stupid idea." #fnpolitics #shutdown

 

[teh_pwn]

Ha, Diablos is a verb now. I get it that reference.gif from last election poligaf.

 

[gcubed]

Ha, Diablos is a verb now. I get it that reference.gif from last election poligaf.

It goes back to 08

 

[rocketknight]

You can't freak out about the possibility that Obama will suddenly decide to defund Obamacare. That's still impossible.

If you want to worry a little about the possibility that Republicans will actually destroy the world, that's okay.

 

[DEO3]

"i say hitler's back and his name's obama".

 

[DarkFlow]

Holy shit, Blitzer is actually calling this Congresswoman out on what the GOP has been doing. He actually doing his goddamn job here, it's amazing. It's like being in AC's time slot has caused him to remember that he is a journalist and not a mimeograph machine.

Should watch fox, they seem almost gleeful about the shut down, and of course its the evil dems fault.

 

[teh_pwn]

So the real question is...will Boehner go soft? Or full Santorum?

 

[mightynine]

Ahaha

Go ahead and look at the GOP side. They will totally lap that up,

http://www.tigerdroppings.com/rant/b/50/Political-Talk.aspx

 

[Anticitizen One]

This would have never happened if we just voted for Mccain when we had the chance

 

[ivysaur12]

@DougHeye 1m
The House will be voting tonight. Reports to the contrary are mistaken.

Oh my.

 

[Diablos]

Would Obama really want the GOP ruining the economy on his watch, though?

Which is why you really do have to worry about Obamacare, because if it really comes down to Boehner continuing to be an incompetent fool, and is held hostage by the Tea Party... what are Democrats going to do? Let the world economy crash?

 

[teh_pwn]

Oh my.

Full santorum!

This would have never happened if we just voted for Mccain when we had the chance

Our national debt would be 3-4 trillion higher and we'd be in Syria, Iran, and others, at least as so far in a proxy war.

 

[rocketknight]

Oh my.

On what? A clean cr for the Senate or more of the same?

 

[Yamauchi]

On what? A clean cr for the Senate or more of the same?

Eric Cantor ‏@GOPLeader 2m
Members are advised: the House will vote tonight to adopt a motion insisting on our last amendment and request a conference with the Senate.

 

[pigeon]

Would Obama really want the GOP ruining the economy on his watch, though?

Which is why you really do have to worry about Obamacare, because if it really comes down to Boehner continuing to be an incompetent fool, and is held hostage by the Tea Party... what are Democrats going to do? Let the world economy crash?

 

[teh_pwn]

Eric Cantor ‏@GOPLeader 2m
Members are advised: the House will vote tonight to adopt a motion insisting on our last amendment and request a conference with the Senate.

What the fuck is the point of that? Hahaha. Full Santorum indeed.

 

[Piecake]

Would Obama really want the GOP ruining the economy on his watch, though?

Which is why you really do have to worry about Obamacare, because if it really comes down to Boehner continuing to be an incompetent fool, and is held hostage by the Tea Party... what are Democrats going to do? Let the world economy crash?

create a trillion dollar coin, better that than completely undermine our democratic process and go through this every debt ceiling or govt shutdown

 

[ISOM]

Would Obama really want the GOP ruining the economy on his watch, though?

Which is why you really do have to worry about Obamacare, because if it really comes down to Boehner continuing to be an incompetent fool, and is held hostage by the Tea Party... what are Democrats going to do? Let the world economy crash?

Do you enjoy panicking? You seem to enjoy taking positions where you think democrats will cave. The same thing could be said to republicans is obamacare worth crashing the economy on?

 

[Diablos]

Is there any indication that he'd really do that or is this just your theory?

 

[NervousXtian]

Would Obama really want the GOP ruining the economy on his watch, though?

Which is why you really do have to worry about Obamacare, because if it really comes down to Boehner continuing to be an incompetent fool, and is held hostage by the Tea Party... what are Democrats going to do? Let the world economy crash?

A shutdown won't do much harm to the economy... now a default.. that'd have some consequences that'd sting longer... but Obama has zero interest in negotiating the ACA away without replacing it with something better.

 

[teh_pwn]

The Senate should agree to the amendment, but add another amendment: Campaign Finance Reform, and strict Anti-Gerrymandering laws. Let the GOP have cake for a day, then kill their party, and go single payer in 2014. #BeohnerHasED

 

[B-Dubs]

That would be an amazing troll moment, even better if instead of Lady Liberty it was Boehner.

 

[Averon]

Eric Cantor ‏@GOPLeader 2m
Members are advised: the House will vote tonight to adopt a motion insisting on our last amendment and request a conference with the Senate.

So, begging Reid for a conference. That's their big, final play?

 

[Cloudy]

Ryan Lizza ‏@RyanLizza 2m

Calling for a conf. committee now is akin to Jack pleading w/Walt to have civil conversation about cutting a deal rt before Walt shoots him.

Seriously

 

[RustyNails]

Goddamit, you never go full santorum.

 

[rocketknight]

Eric Cantor ‏@GOPLeader 2m
Members are advised: the House will vote tonight to adopt a motion insisting on our last amendment and request a conference with the Senate.

Oh god. lol

 

[East Lake]

That coin looks delicious.

 

[Piecake]

Is there any indication that he'd really do that or is this just your theory?

Well, what other option is there? Economic ruin, undermine our democratic process, or mint a trillion dollar coin? What option would you choose? Obama has made it clear that he doesnt trust the Republicans not to do this shit again adn again and again

 

[Drakeon]

Is there any indication that he'd really do that or is this just your theory?

I'm hoping he'd go with the 14th amendment option myself. I understand it's a big risk, but if we could take this (the debt ceiling "leverage") away from them for good, it'd be worth it.